The GOATs
Tennis: Roger Federer
For a while Federer was a weird case of being arguably the greatest player of all-time, while maybe not even being the best of his own era? [See: Federer-Nadal rivalry]
It was sort of unlucky for Federer, that there was this left-handed freak who posed such a uniquely bad matchup for him. If paper defeats rock, and rock defeats everything else, rock may well be best overall but losing to paper isn't a good look.
So when Federer was stuck at 17 grand slam titles and Nadal was still going strong, it seemed like Nadal could make a push for GOAT or at least make things murky.
But now with 20 titles to Nadal's 16, including a win against Nadal in the Australian Open finals, he seems secure.
Nadal could chip away at the gap, but as it stands today I think there's a clear and obvious GOAT.
Golf: Tiger Woods
Nicklaus has 18 majors to Tiger's 14, but let's be real.
Tiger has a career winning percentage of something close to 24%, which is freakishly higher than all other active players.
Nicklaus is 18.8% (by my math). Which isn't shabby or anything, but it's worse than 24%.
There's so much variance in one given golf tournament where I'm not willing to hang everything on the majors. The other tournaments do literally count. You're trying to win them.
And even as far as the majors go, Tiger's performance during the stretch of years where he was winning them was as dominant as anything. Either he would set some new record for margin of victory, or he'd have a seemingly magical ability to win if it ever got close.
The difference is basically that Jack lasted longer, and was able to chip away at majors for a much wider stretch of years.
If Jack had played in the modern era (where there's more need to be a peak conditioned athlete if you're going to be elite) we don't really know that his body would have held up or that he'd be able to stay elite for so long.
So basically that Nicklaus was able to eek out a few majors in his older years doesn't, for me, offset what seems like just a clearly better and more dominant player.
Football: Tom Brady
- 5 Super Bowl championships
- 4 Super Bowl MVP awards
- 8 AFC championships
- 15 division titles
- 3 league MVP awards
- Killer documentary Tom vs Time
It's easy to buy into the "oh, the Patriot system tho" narrative of diminishing his greatness, but there comes a point where you ask yourself whether the chicken came before the egg.
Unlike other 'systems' (the 49ers with Montana, the Cowboys with Aikman) the cast around Brady has completely changed multiple times over. If anything he's shown himself to be the opposite of someone who depends on the system around him.
The only common denominator is coach Bill Belichick. And while Belichick is probably legitimately a wizard, there's only so much edge one head coach can have over another.
Like if you're playing Monopoly, even if you're a little better than the others, there are so many variables out of your control where you're not that much more likely than them to win. Coaching seems about the same. There's plenty of room for a bad coach to cripple their team's chances. But among good coaches who are managing effectively, there isn't gonna be that much difference from one to the next. It isn't as tho Doug Pederson and Mike Tomlin and the other solid coaches are light years behind him and Belichick is just on some different cylinder.
And so you have to elevate Belichick to I think a sort of mythical, not realistic category of skill if you want to say that's the explanation for Brady's resume. (Good coaching doesn't realistically cause a team to win this often.)
Basketball: Indeterminable
separate post about Jordan vs LeBrons vs others coming soon
Hockey: Wayne Gretzky
- league record for most goals (and for most goals including playoffs)
- league record for most goals in one season
- league record for most assists (and for most assists including playoffs)
- league record for most assists in one season
- 9 Hart Memorial Trophy (MVP) awards
- 10 time scoring champion
- 4 Stanley Cup championships
Plus he's credited for essentially revolutionizing the game into a more team-oriented game.
And you can see his humility and general calmness and soothing qualities on display in this interview with Graham Bensinger.
Baseball: Indeterminable
Barry Bonds is fine. Steroids shouldn't count against him just because his neck was bigger than the others. You can't carve people out subjectively because they take it further than others.
It's just hard to compare across eras and have any real clear idea who was the best.
Griffey I think was hurt by being in the steroids era. Even tho I'm sure he used as well, his body didn't necessarily take as favorably to it, and with that picturesque swing of his I'd guess he would have preferred a landscape where no one was using.
Bonds I think just had the best strategy (whether or not intentional) -- lay low for a while, and as he becomes an experienced hitter at the top of his game, dial it up and go for broke.
Griffey on the other hand I feel like may have taken more of a half-measure -- he wanted to hang under the radar of not being one of the obvious users with the thick neck, but still may have done enough to cause his injury issues in the second part of his career.
I think there's a good argument that Bonds is the best of his era, just really hard to compare across eras and know how meaningful his records are.
Olympian: Michael Phelps
28 medals and 23 gold.
Of course swimmers get a lot of chances, but still.
His performance in Beijing was probably already enough to make him the GOAT, or at least put him on the short-list. And then there's 15 gold medals outside of that.
Boxing: Floyd Mayweather, Jr.
- 50-0
- all the money
Politician: Ron Paul
If you believe in political action and forcing people to be a part of a government, this is the best you can do.
Ron has never voted for a war, a tax increase, or an infringement on your civil liberties.
Plus he's a handsome, kind, grandfatherly figure.
Speaker: Andreas Antonopoulos
Blockchain Maker: Dan Larimer
Is there anyone who I missed?? It's possible I'll elect new people into the hall of GOATs as they occur to me.
Right now these are the first inductees.
One more category left unchecked:
STEEMIT GOAT FOR SUBLIMINAL WITTY HUMOR:
@full-measure.
haha, this got me laughing hard, man. Damn. You so good at that. haha.
I was just wondering, hey it's a been a while since I saw any full-measure post, so I go to your feed and see this and I thought, how the hell could I have missed this! Now everybody done say all I gotta to say, haha.
Federer, Tiger, Brady, Floyd, yup. You pretty much got this. Except I read the comments and saw you're going to go for Lebron!?
The finals losses haunts! haha. Can't wait to see that post, though. Maybe I'll come early this time.
Oh and I might have to go with Bolts for olympics--only because I think if he had as much events as swimming afforded the GOAT phelps, then he might have hurled as much, if not more, blings.
Ahaha, was wondering where you were. You and @thunderbirdcomic both make the GOAT comments and this is right up your alley and CRICKETS from the both of you until now
Ok ok now I feel inspired to make that post (it was sort of written from before but I wanted to go deeper).
It's more about being skeptical of MJ than fully endorsing LeBron. LeBron had suuuuuch worse teams. And 3 of his finals losses he essentially had no chance (first one in cleveland, the one where kyrie and love were injured, and against the DurantWarriors). So it's kind of an odd thing where the weakness of the East plus LeBron's dominance is gonna end up in some finals losses where it was basically a situation of his team not having any chance.
He had two legit losses with Miami.. unlike MJ tho he didn't have the advantage of playing with his superteam for years before they got to the finals tho.. so they were still sorting it out during their first loss
If you put LeBron with Pippen I just think he wins so much.
Interesting case for Bolt. I'll crunch the numbers a little and see if Phelps' crown is under threat.
Ok, ok, I feel the arguments, He balled like crazy in that final against GSW even tho Kyrie was out, and later proved he could have won it by coming back from 3- 1 the next year, so okay, okay, I get that. Plus MJ had more conference finals loses, so...can't wait to read that post.
Oh and don't dethrone Phelps on my account. I'd legit feel bad about that.
Ya it isn't like he didn't show up in his losses.. a couple of them he balled as good as you could ask for.. he def did have at least one finals dud tho (the first one with the Heat), and maybe two (kinda forget their second loss).
So either way it def isn't "Jordan" level in the finals, he wasn't pristine. But, I also don't think other people necessarily need to be held to that standard. It's cool and a cool part of Jordan's legacy, that he did that, but often there's a tendency to automatically lower people when they have a finals loss, like it rules them out from being better than Jordan. But there are different kinds of legacies and I don't think "unblemished in the finals" necessarily needs to be a huge deal, especially because like you say he just had the losses in the conference finals instead.
I gotta go Michael. I'll disclose my biases. I grew up and live in Illinois. I watched every Bulls game back then. Michael had Scottie Pippen. One of the best defensive players of all time. The overshadowed Pippen was probably better than anyone LeBron ever played with. Be that as it may, Jordan is 6-0 in championships.
Had Michael not been suspended for gambling for 2 years (the fake retirement angle), the Bulls would have 8-peated.
I'll grant you that Michael had better teams around him, but he had to overcome better teams to win the championships. He had to overcome the Pistons, to get there led by Isiah Thomas and co.. He beat he Magic led lakers, Barkley led Suns, Drexler led Trailblazers, Ewing led Knicks (in the playoffs several times).
For 6 years of Michael's prime, no one could knock him off the throne.
I gotta be honest, it's tough to evaluate sports teams that I watched as a child because they felt larger than life at the time, in a way teams can't really feel to me now. But I do believe the NBA was in a Golden Era when he had to do it.
Reasonable.
And I know exactly what you mean regarding players back then seeming larger than life. I don't know how much of it is BECAUSE of being a kid and how much is just that era.
A friend of mine who analyzes sports says that his data reflected the 80s and 90s were the best players. And he wasn't sure why, since in general you expect people to be bigger and better as time goes on. He said it finally occurred to him that the way the US demographics work, baby boomers or whatever, that there were more people in their athletic prime back then. (I think.. in any case, he says stats do seem to suggest this was the golden era for basketball.)
I'm probably threading the needle really tight to take Brady over Manning (and other obviously very good players who didn't win as much) but then not take Jordan, hehe.
I love Scottie Pippen and that's a part of why I lower Jordan.
My main argument -- whenever I finally make this post (at this point I've basically said all my arguments lol) -- is that Pippen is a great "compliment". He doesn't have negative overlap in the way you usually have when you pair stars together (because they both want the ball). So I believe Pippen was uniquely team-oriented for someone of his ability, and basically like the dream piece that would help make a team a GOAT dynasty type of team.
That's interesting about the boomers. I could see that being true about the higher population meaning more great players. Scottie Pippen was 6 foot 7 and even played a lot of point guard. You could slide him in at 1 - 4 on a moment's notice. I think Brady over Manning is an easy pick. Manning vs Favre would be a better debate then Manning vs Brady. Both great regular season players that were, for the most part, not at all clutch in the playoffs.
I can get behind Dan the Man as the blockchain goat. I really need to start stacking EOS.
I agree that Tiger is the GOAT. Damn shame those ambien induced sex romps cut short a great career. I know they say it's his knee, but I can't help but feel like Tiger could not recover from the drive by media onslaught after his wife attacked him.
His legacy also includes the first famous person to claim sex addiction as "a thing." I don't buy the sex addiction, but I think when his web of lies came crashing down on him it caused some sort of psychological trauma that he never recovered from. He completely lost his edge.
The only professional athlete you missed was Hulk Hogan (or is SCSA the goat?).
Ya! I totally think it was the scandals too. Obv neither helped, but seems more the scandals, like he'd have dealt with his injuries much better otherwise.
lol, ya the sex addiction thing is funny. I don't buy it either, I feel like his handlers probably told him that's the best thing to say, like that it becomes less about him and bad decisions if there's some "disease" or issue pinning him down.
I don't really get the moral indignation over Tiger. All he did was cheat on his wife. Which of course is bad, but the reaction to it seemed more along the lines of if he had committed sexual assault or he hurt people. Seemed like kind of a deliberate attempt to turn him mask, when infidelity issues, meh, don't seem like they would usually be that big of a deal.
I'd imagine what Tiger did is pretty standard for star athletes. He may even have thought he wouldn't get outed, like that he had the right connections or whatever and they'd protect his image.
So I don't really hold anything against him other than the media chose to change his story line for whatever reason.
One thing I wonder is if he changed his "training regimen" because of it. If he was using banned substances before, and now he's like "ok, the world is against me.. I can't trust who I thought I could trust" maybe he's skittish that he won't pass the tests anymore. And is essentially down a level against other people who feel free to use aggressively.
Full disclosure, I don't really own any EOS (other than a little handful on openledger), and not that much BitShares. My endorsement of him is more what he stands for and his efficiency at building multiple popular platforms, more than I'm endorsing buying the coins.
But ya, I'm not NOT endorsing the coins either hehe, you do you, just wanted to make that known. I actually don't know much about EOS, other than it's vaguely an Ethereum competitor?
EOS is weird, man. Was reading about it a while ago and it swirled my head real good. First you don't actually own any EOS right now, but after the ICO--which lasts about 340 days, scheduled to end this June. Then you get your EOS; then there's the a*(b/c) distribution of your conversion of the ether to EOS, where a and b and c are the amount of ether you buy with, the amount of EOS to be distributed, and the amount of EOS others have in total, not necessarily in that order.
Then ya buy it and its fixed and only transferable when ya get about 15% holder's approval and whatnot. Leave it up to @dan to fuck up ya head.
Ya, its crazy, but even crazier when I read their terms of agreement where they talked about EOS having no use or whatever. I guess that was just a disclaimer.
😲😲
that does seem very mind-bending lol
And ya, I forgot about that, I don't technically own any EOS yet.. still crowdsale
Weird about the terms of use. I'm generally skeptical of all coins unless it's clear to me what the point is.. like with Steem, whether or not it works out, it's kind of clear what it's attempting to do-- blockchain that stores content and makes censorship impossible. Seems useful, and seems like something bitcoin can't really do.
I may nibble some more on EOS, but skeptical, at least until I can wrap my head around it more.
Ya, man. But, of course, if there's a dude whose blockchain project you can invent in blindly, its @dan. Hence the GOATness.
Maybe. Maybe. I believe in Dan's intentions. Less sure what to think about the specific projects, and how they'll be valued.
Like I'm sure Dan is building it well and that's what makes him the GOAT! not sure how many blockchains we'll really end up using or valuing highly
The stories with Tiger were just so salacious. He even banged the Ponderosa waitress. Lol. He definitely just wasn't the same guy. It looks like from the outside, that he didn't really have the drive to rehab his knee, like say, Tom Brady did. I wouldn't doubt for a second that he was on PEDs. He was pretty ripped.
Did you have an opinion on the Dan / Ned drama? A couple weeks ago Ned downvoted a Dan post about EOS. Dan cashed out his Steem and cut all ties with Steemit, and ripped Ned on the way out.
I'll always be a Steemian, but I'm going to start stacking EOS because I believe Dan signaled his intent to create a Steemit competitor (which would explain the bad blood between the two).
I can see why Ned would be upset about that. But Dan is the brains and probably needs a new project to grow. At the end of the day, most people will support both platforms IMO.
I saw a little of the drama!! I struggled to form much of an opinion.. it was like "ok Dan being a hero here" then you read what Ned is saying and it's like "hmm that kinda makes sense tho".
They're both smart, so I guess I just figured it would take a lot of effort to uncover what's really going on and have a good opinion. What do you think about it??
Well I guess you kind of answered... ya, I could see Ned being kind of like "ok, you bring me on here.. then you have a better idea and leave and make a competitor", and seems hard not to be annoyed even if Dan didn't do anything technically wrong.
And oh.. Hulk DOES seem like the GOAT to me. I definitely watched wrestling.. I mean I had like a 3ish year span of knowing what was up. But I don't think I have a complete enough picture of it to really crown a GOAT.
If I read a little, Hulk may seem clearly GOATable and able to be included in the next batch. We'll see.
I like the list, don’t think I would change any.
Going by your Woods vs Nicklaus debate, does that make LeBron better than Jordan?
Possible additions:
-Soccer: Pele
-MMA: GSP and Ronda Rousey
-Model: Gisele, since Tom is already here, lol
Interesting comparison (Nicklaus vs Tiger to LeBron vs MJ), it DOES seem similar, ya.
My hunch is that LeBron wins more championships if you replay their career across all permutations. But MJ just had a much better situation, playing with Pippen, and oh let's give him Dennis Rodman too.
I think people sometimes don't appreciate how good LeBron was early. He could have been contending for championships for so many years, during the time where Cleveland didn't give him anybody.
So ya, it does sound like I'm taking LeBron over MJ. But I think his resume isn't there yet. He'd probably need to win 1 or 2 more (1 against Durant Warriors would maybe be enough), before I could feel right floating him as the GOAT. But my instinct is he's better.
(Separate post about this coming soon.)
Interesting subject!
Of all these superstars who definately deserve to be called this way my favorite is Phelps. I think he is not “was” a human. It was always exciding watching him wining at the olympics one after another. I still clearly remember him wining this controversial gold I think it was with Russian, they finishe almost the same except Phelps had better reach. I’m a big fan of Ron Paul, he calls for taugh times to come, we shall see. With Gretzky I would include Jagr my favorite hockey player.
Great post!
An excellent post about great athletes, politician, speaker and blockchain maker. They all are one of Manny, but my fav is definitely Michael Jordan. He was realy fun to watch. He brought the excitement in to the game that’s now missing. We need people like them.
👍
Oh, you're not gonna like my upcoming thing about the basketball GOAT then!! I had it written up but it was helping to make this post too long, and gonna post it separate. My main point is that Jordan is overrated and that it seems tough to rank him higher than LeBron!!
Glad you liked it! Jordan and all the others are all great, of course.
Not at all, I’m sure I will. I actualy enjoy reading your blogs. With Jordan I didn’t mean the game itself only, i meat the excitement just watching him playing the game and interact with fans. He wasn’t even playing for my team. And yes, Lebron is amazing, wherever he plays, the team suddenly starts winning. He will eventually be a legend.
Lebron is top 3. MJ is #1. Rings dont lie. LOL. Plus, Lebron is trying to catch MJ and doesn't hide it either. I love Lebron...but I LOVE MJ.
Good article. I agree with on Gretzky & Brady (although Montana still holds a special place in my heart). If not Phelps, maybe Bolt? Also, MJ is the GOAT of Sports, period. NBA is definitely not indeterminable, it's #23!!!!
I don't know, LeBron had SUCH worse situations to deal with than MJ... I'm gonna post my thing about that soon!! I know most people don't really consider LeBron in the discussion but I think he's just been really unlucky, especially with Durant making the super team right when LeBron seemed impossible to beat.
Let LeBron play with Scottie Pippen and it's lights out lol
Hi full-measure! ;D
Wow, you really are into sports, are not you?
I am not the most educated person when it comes to all these sports but Federer really is good, Woods too,... the others, I do not really know. LeBrons and Jordan, of course they are lit af. haha.
Why Floyd? What is with Tyson?
And what is with Lionel Messi, C. Ronaldo, Beckham,...?
I have seen some interviews and stuff of Andreas Antonopoulos but I still do not exactly know, who he is (of course versed in crypto haha).
I like Julian Hosp a lot.
Cheers my friend! (;
haha, well some of this I had to look up.. I like honoring the greats more than anything :p
I like the old guys like Brady and Federer and Tiger and Mayweather ... they should all hang out and be friends
Andreas is basically just some guy, he got really into bitcoin and writes and gives speeches about it.. he's really principled and smart and also good at communicating
Floyd.. just seems perfect.. the style he uses lowers variance by a lot. So it's just so hard to beat him, and if you shuffle up and replay his career a lot of times it's probably not uncommon that he's undefeated. Tyson I think was probably unlucky and would have better careers than this most of the time (going to jail seemed to derail him a little), but still I like Floyd
Even if he dodged people a little (and like waited on Pacquio to time it right).. I don't hold that against him at all, it means he was trying to give himself the most edge, but still all you can do is go by how he did when he faced people
Haha, kk. :D
Yes, they probably deserve it.
Haha, I heard that Tiger is not the nicest person but I do not know if that is true - just rumours. Same regarding Federer.
Yes, that is what I know bout Andreas too but really check out Julian Hosp - though his English is not the best cause he is German or Austrian or something, think Austrian.
Oh, he really is undefeated? I thought maybe I got something wrong, but apparently he is that "bossy".
Muhammad Ali is lit too - or moreover was.
Cheers! (:
I'll check out Julian Hosp!! thanks for the recommendation
You are welcome my friend!
Before going throught the list I was thinking - OK, there is Jordan, then ... :)
surprise! lol
I'm skeptical of MJ!!
List of extraordinary people & their achievement. Such a wonderful post. You have done a great work. Their story is really interesting & inspirational, I love it. Keep on exploring steemit with your great findings.
I think Michael Schumacher & Serena Williams should be your list.
True! Awfully sexist of me to not include Serena. I mostly just excluded female athletes in my mind because the team sports aren't really watched by anyone .. BUT, Serena does seem like a clear GOAT. She will likely be inducted in the next installment.
Thanks.
Welcome
Does a friend not like soccer?
If I really like football and I have idol club REAL MADRID C.F
the player I idolize is marco asensio
nice! he looks like he knows his way around a soccer field lol
Thank you friend.
Why do you say what kind of crazy football you do not like soccer my friend
just never watched or played it much!
Maybe because my friends do not like soccer, but that's someone's hobby is never the same.
And thank you so much guys have upvote me.