Thoughts on @jpiper20’s Plagiarism: Forgiveness Restores Relationship But Only Trust Can Restore Reputation

in #reputation8 years ago (edited)


My wife and I are counseling some good friends who have gone through a situation that would have destroyed most marriages. He cheated on her with five different women over the course of eight years. Every sexual encounter was basically a one-night stand, and all occurred while he was away on business trips.

What’s remarkable is how she found out. His conscience finally got the best of him and he confessed it all in graphic detail. She was sad, angry, and broken. They live in another state, but within a few hours of finding out, she was on a plane, headed to our house.

She had already made the decision to go back home and forgive him. She just needed someone to talk to, and my wife is one of her closest friends.

While choosing to forgive her husband was a tough and painful process, and everything within her wanted to make him pay by divorcing him, her commitment to him was made easier by two facts:

1. He was deeply remorseful and begged her to forgive him and offer him a second chance.

2. He was never caught in the act. He confessed his infidelity to her when she had no idea what was going on.

On the first point, had he been callous, indifferent, and unrepentant, the marriage would have been over. But he was truly sorry. He was sad and broken himself, and deeply regretted his infidelity.

On the second point, she said that she doesn’t think she could have forgiven him and remained his wife had he been caught in the act before willingly confessing. She would have always wondered, “Is he truly sorry, or just sorry that he got caught?”

The fact that he could have kept his secret for another eight years, or even for the rest of their lives, but didn't, was comforting to her. Even though she was deeply grieved, his transparency showed somehow that he really did love her and could no longer live as her husband while keeping such a dark secret.

Forgiveness is a Beautiful Thing

The truth is we all do dumb stuff from time to time and damage relationships with people that are important to us. God knows I need to ask my wife and kids for forgiveness regularly. I raise my voice, I get irritated, and I say harsh or offensive things sometimes.

When I take responsibility, look them in the eyes, and ask for forgiveness, they have the opportunity to let the offense go. All can be made right again. They forgive me, relationship and intimacy is restored, and we can move on.

It’s a beautiful thing.

But Trust Takes Time to Rebuild

Back to our friends… She forgave him, but his standing in her life as a trustworthy husband was not restored immediately. In fact, it still hasn’t been fully restored, and it’s been almost a year since he confessed. He lost his reputation in her eyes as a loving and faithful husband. That will take time to rebuild.

There are times when we might screw up big, and it majorly damages our reputation. We lose trust and respect in the eyes of other people.

I remember once when I revealed something confidential that was going on in a close friend’s life. I let it slip to the larger group of our friends. It was a dumb thing to do, and I really regretted it because I lost a good reputation. From that time, I became known in our circle of friends as someone who had “loose lips.” People didn’t feel that they could trust me, and it took me a while to change that perception.

That hurt, but I learned a valuable lesson.

Benjamin Franklin said, “It takes many good deeds to build a good reputation, and only one bad one to lose it.”

My friend who cheated on his wife lost something that day when he confessed, and it will take him a long time to fully regain it. He’s on the path now, and there are some good days between he and his wife, but there are also some miserable days.

He would do anything to go back and relive those moments of infidelity because those cheap thrills have cost him dearly.

@jpiper20’s High Reputation Score is a Major Problem

If you haven’t yet heard about the @jpiper20 saga, you can read @pfunk’s exposé here, or @klye’s observations here.

@jpiper20 screwed up, tried to cut a few corners to payouts and reputation, and now he’s paying the price. I really do feel bad for him, because I’ve done dumb stuff that I regret too.

He has apologized, and I believe we should humbly forgive him, and stay connected with him in relationship, welcoming him to post his artwork and encouraging him through comments.

If we’re honest, each of us has lied and stolen at some point in our lives, so to throw stones at him, refusing to forgive him, would be hypocritical.

He has also agreed to make restitution, by paying the original creator of the work he passed off as his own. He says he will transfer to him the value of what he received in those plagiarized posts. That’s a great start at rebuilding trust.

However, that does not mean that we are obligated to trust him fully right away. Forgiveness is different than trust. Forgiveness is our decision, but winning our trust is up to him. His character must be proven by his actions, so for most of us, it will take some time before he will regain an honorable reputation on this platform.

We should also be mindful that he did not publicly confess his plagiarism until after he was caught. He even tried to cover his tracks, as the blockchain clearly reveals. This further damages trust, as it reveals his sorrow was at least initially self-directed, rather than in consideration of the community that has invested in him and this platform.

At the time of this writing, @jpiper20 has a reputation score of 67.1.

That’s down from 67.2, the high before he was caught. He was flagged by a whale or two, and lost .1 on his reputation score.

I think that’s a major problem. His reputation score did not fall as much as his real life reputation fell in the eyes of the community.

Our system is great at factoring in the time it takes to build a reputation, but it does not properly take into account how quickly reputation can be lost.

I’m not exactly sure what the solution is here.

Perhaps @jpiper20 should ask the entire community to flag every one of his posts until his reputation score is restored to something that reflects reality. Is that a score in the 50’s? In the 40’s? I guess that’s up to the community to decide.

Or perhaps @jpiper20 should start a new account and rebuild his reputation from 25 like anyone else who sets out to prove his or her worth on Steemit.

Of course, these would be purely voluntary decisions on @jpiper20’s part, aimed at communicating a selfless sorrow and at regaining the community’s trust.

A 67 reputation says…

“I am a highly trustworthy contributor on this platform. My standing has been proven over time by consistently creating quality work.”

I don’t believe @jpiper20 meets that qualification, so I personally cannot upvote his posts until his reputation score is first restored to something that reflects reality.

What do you think?

@jasonstaggers


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Not sure what is the correct fix for the platform. Don't really care much about @jpiper20 specifically, but we should learn and improve the rep score if possible. In the real world, rep grows slowly and disappears quickly. Perhaps some will downvote everything he posts and force him to open a new account @ 25 or force the score down in the existing account. Personally, I'm not down voting, partly because I don't want repercussions to myself, and I've just un-followed.

I understand your actions. I am sorry to have lost you as a follower. Good luck to you on your journey. You will see me on here in the future.

I just commented something like this a short while ago. His reputation, along with the reputations of any scammers on this platform, should be 0. They should have to start from scratch, in my opinion. There's absolutely no excuse for deceit/plagiarism - especially when it comes to being paid for it. It's disgraceful. His reputation and rewards were earned largely through deceit. He should be held accountable and pay the price for it.

And it should be noted - as it is with almost all scammers - that he only apologized after he was caught and attempted to further lie about it while the plagiarism was being pointed out to him and flagged the person who called him out. A simple apology post and instant forgiveness is not the way to resolve this and to deter others from doing the same as he did. He's currently sitting on over 6,000 SP and a 67+ reputation. That's more than screwed up. Scammers need to be dealt with more harshly if we want the scamming to stop.

There is definitely truth in what you say. I'm not sure what the answer is. I just know the reputation system does not reflect the real world in situations like these.

If you read the post you will see that I am not a scammer. I am a person just like you who made a mistake. You want to continue to point out the flaws in me but you have yet to talk about any positives I have done on here. I appreciate your thoughts and I am understand why you feel the way you do. Like I said on another response, I will continue to be involved with the community and I will be 100% truthful from here on out. At least I am fixing my mistakes and continuing to build trust on here. I could just walk away from Steemit and live a perfectly happy life. Just for the record, I unflagged the person that flagged me last night. I was wrong to flag him and I also apologize for that. If it makes you feel better, flag every post I create for the rest of my days. You act like I am not a real person with thoughts, feelings and emotions just as you are. I didn't steal an identity or lie about who I am. I got lazy and mixed in some art that wasn't mine. I will live with the guilt I promise you that.

I forgive you @jpiper20. Don't hold on to that guilt. Learn from it and move on. I will not be flagging or unfollowing you myself, but I do agree with these guys that it should be reflected on your steemit rep score and it really isn't at this point. I don't know what the solution is but I know your real rep has been damaged and I know you regret your actions. Don't feel bad, just take your lesson, learn it well, fix the problem, and move on. Nothing but love

I'm sorry @jpiper20 but since I don't have any way of knowing you except through your words, your words don't really reflect contrition. You didn't make a 'mistake', you did 'wrong'. Your use of the word mistake softens your actions and doesn't take full responsibility. I don't wish to be harsh, but sometimes it takes brutal honesty to really own up to what we do wrong.

You are a real person, there is no doubt about that. You did in a sense steal the identity of the person who you stole the creative product and claimed it as your own. That person is a real person as well. As an artist you should have known the wrong you were doing to the person you stole from and then claimed as your own. To a point, you while didn't claim his name, you claimed to be him.

I like that the community, at least some of the community, is willing to give you a chance at redemption but I believe they need complete and utter honesty from you in return. The system may not allow for the number on your reputation to be decreased, but those who know of you, will do that on their own. At least in their own minds. It is for you to earn it back.

I do agree with the author of this post, in that you did damage your reputation through your actions. Your public apologizes have gone a long way in repairing the damage, but to some extent, the damage is done. I don't know what the right solution is. It reveals a small flaw in the current reputation system, in that there really isn't a great way to bring a high reputation user's rep back down, even if there is a legitimate reason to do so. I think there will be a lot of users that feel you should no longer have as high of a score as you do, and that you should work to build it back over time as you regain the community's trust.

I just don't think the mass flagging of him would be right, as some have suggested doing. to me it seems you are taking him out in the middle of steemit square, and flogging him with a whip. The days of public humiliation should be over in the 21st century. Like I said in another post, its up to the developers of steemit to instill proper tools for doing this the right way. The problems with steemit , is the whales seems to use bots the majority of the time, upvoting post in a animated way. I have been watching this for the month+ I have been on this site. Once again, this is a beta platform. I'm sure @ned and @dantheman are working on ways to do this.

Perhaps not, but if mass flagging the plagiarised posts can not bring down his reputation, then something is flawed in the system.

Additional thoughts -

I will live with the guilt I promise you that.

Based on this, I suggest you start over with a new account. You should not have to hold on to guilt from past mistakes once you have owned up to them and done what you could to rectify them. A new account would let you put this whole situation behind you, and give the community a way to let you earn back your rep. Then whatever rep you have on your new account, you could safely say you earned, and it would not carry with it the tarnish of what you did with this account.

I don't agree, if this was that easy, people would just give up their bodies for a new one, once they messed up their current one. I think keeping the current account show ones history on the platform. Creating a new one, will not have the history of what he has done. Newer people that follow @jpiper20 won't see his history. People need to learn from ones history. I had no idea who Jpiper20 was till an hour ago. He is new to me. I, being an struggling artist understand how theft can hurt. I have had people do it to me a couple times. It's a bad situation, yet I want to see what the platform creators will do, to put proper tools into this platform that is still in beta. There is more then just stealing artwork going on in this platform. All these issues need to be ironed out. I really don't know the course of action that should be taken, yet I'm sure jpiper20 will do what ever he can to work toward gaining the trust of the steemit community.

It's an interesting analogy :) I don't disagree with your view.

@jasonstaggers , as has been pointed out by @jpiper20 you have made valid points. And your suggestion to flag his post is also valid. Now, the community will decide whether to follow your suggestion or not. Owning his mistake and publicly apologizing is punishment enough.

But, IMHO, we cannot ask @jpiper20 to burn himself. Let the community decide. But I think most of the members have already made their decision.

Yeah, I agree with that. And if we as a community err on the side of mercy, I think that's probably a good thing.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. The community can do as they want and need. I will just continue to post original content and hopefully gain everyone's trust back in the long run.

Great post, Jason. I just replied to @jpiper's latest post with many of these same ideas. Trust has to be earned. The mind that is okay with fraudulent behavior is a mind which can't be trusted unless it changes through building new habits. Being sorry for being caught isn't true regret.

Edit: Oh, forgot to mention, a big problem with the reputation system (as I understand it) is 80%+ of steemit could flag him and his reputation would be unchanged. Only high reputations can impact lower reputations. My reputation is 66 so my flag, I think, doesn't do anything to a 67. Only the whales can make a difference here. And if a whale "goes bad"? Well, then there's not much we can do.

The mind that is okay with fraudulent behavior is a mind which can't be trusted unless it changes through building new habits.

That is gold and perfectly sums up the point of my post.

Regarding the impact of flags from lower rep scores, it appears there is a minuscule impact to reputation but not enough to make any real difference.

I'm really surprised @ned was so quick to upvote his apology post in the first 20 minutes of posting. I'd like to see every whale flag the plagiarised posts to see some reality reflected in his rep score, if possible.

Honestly - I believe this issue is being overthought. Here is a simple solution for when this issue comes up regardless of who the perpetrator is.

If an account is caught using plagiarism and that plagiarism is 100% identified and confirmed valid. Then the account is disabled. If the user wants to sign back up with a new acct and start from scratch and earn back trust and reputation that is their prerogative.

And I know what you may be thinking, well couldn't people just start a new account and plagiarise again. Yes they could, but with a low rep score and no following! Plus pretty sure anyone with bad intentions will give up after a couple goes of that.

That is actually my thought on it as well. I just thought I would be burned at the stake for suggesting such a "harsh" (not really) punishment.

Actually, I really don't think its that harsh. It's like making a bad investment decision. You lose the investment and then you move onto the next (account for this matter) and start from scratch.

The community feels protected and the user has a chance to work their way back into the community. It's a win-win!

Great suggestion and I don't think it's too harsh. The problem is how to do that on a decentralized system. There is no overarching authority to nuke an account, unless it's a collective decision by the whales perhaps. Somehow the system should give this power to the community collectively, no matter the rep score.

You make very valid points and are right in everything you say. I have admitted to the plagiarism and apologized. Although some of the content wasn't mine, I have still invested hours on hours of my time creating and sharing original ideas, art and advertisements for Steemit. I have earned majority of my ranking. I was wrong for using other's work at times, but that doesn't change the fact of how involved I have been with Steemit and the Steemit community. Flag my posts if you must. If it makes you feel better, do it. I have to live with the guilt of what I did. I am a humble person and honestly thought nothing of it at the time when I did all of this. I will from here on out post things that are 100% the truth. If you feel the need to flag me, do it. I have owned up to my mistakes and will do good now and in the future. I am sorry to you and everyone else on here. But do not tell me I haven't worked for my rep on here. I have made plenty of content purposely for Steemit. I hope we can build our reputations together and be friends in the future.. Thankyou for your post and thankyou for sharing your thoughts on all of this.

Thanks very much for your response. As I've said previously, I respect you for your humility and owning your mistakes. You are absolutely forgiven in my eyes and we will definitely be friends in the future.

Honestly, I'm not sure how much of your reputation came from upvotes on plagiarized posts. I still don't think you deserve 67, but that's not up to me to decide, but the community, and especially those with a higher SP balance and reputation than you.

I have no intention of flagging your future original posts and I wish you all the best. Oh, and I will be following you, not out of spite, but genuine interest in your original artwork.

Thank you very much Jason. What has happened here is so much bigger than just my rep on Steemit. I have been in a bit of darkness lately and needed a wake up call. I am glad this happened. I needed to be slapped in the face and I needed to get my act together. I have a weight off of my shoulders now and I plan to do my best to make a difference on here and in my daily life.

That's great to hear Jay. It sounds like you're responding to this whole situation really well.

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I completely agree with you.

And what I truly find troublesome is his second apology post has generated nearly 70 dollars (at the time of this comment) where your post here is only at 4.40. Hell the first half of your post before even getting to the jpiper20 saga was worth more than that 70 bucks in my opinion.

I just don't get some of the voting patterns from some individuals (ones who can make a real impact anyway)

Thanks. @ned upvoted his post in the first 20 minutes which really surprised me. I'm not so concerned about the payout but there should have been more thought given to his reputation. Why would any whale want to improve it?

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