On Genuine Conversation

Today my thoughts are not so much on freewrite as I am more focused on considering my replies and I do greatly value those steemians who take time and care in their comments and responses, not only because I love kudos like any other, but because I am here on a decentralized platform in order to escape the continued narrowing of bought and sold Internet.

Gone are the days of wild west net surfing in which one seemingly found themselves down an intriguing rabbit hole of freewill associations. One subject, site, article or art piece leading us to the next, and next, and so on down the line, a trail only we took in relationship to our own thinking and experiences, our data not sold and our experience not "tailored," or crafted.

Yes, there were those times I found myself in some lurid pit and it seemed I couldn't push out fast enough the multiplying x's appearing on my screen, but I definitely would rather have the threat of tripping off ledges than being wagon-wheeled safely around by an outside authority I didn't choose.

@erh.germany, a steemian friend of mine, does not shy away from real conversation and recently wrote a wonderfully engaging article titled: INTUITION - What happens beyond the discursive use of the mind?

I give her high praise not only for spending time in producing valuable and engrossing material to ponder, but for her desire to dive into real conversations no matter the touchiness of the subject within a world that is more frequently growing a dismissive attitude towards authentic dialogue.

Below, Scott London emphasizes how we are indeed suffering the loss of real communication.

The Power of Dialogue By Scott London http://www.scottlondon.com/articles/ondialogue.html

It's a sad fact that while most of us spend a sizeable part of our lives communicating with others — in face-to-face conversations, over the phone, in committee meetings, via e-mail and social networks — we seem more separate and disconnected than ever.
The trouble with much of what passes for communication today is that it's all crosstalk. It's a din, not a dialogue. We fire salvos of information across the Internet, or shoot each other text messages, or blog or Twitter about ourselves. But is anyone paying attention? And if they are, do they catch our drift? Genuine understanding seems to be the exception rather than the norm in everyday communication. We speak at each other, or past each other. We speak different conceptual languages, hold different values, embody different ways of seeing the world.
Much of the time, we're not even listening to each other at all. The dialogue is a monologue. We fire salvos of information across the Internet, or shoot each other text messages, or blog or Twitter about ourselves. But is anyone paying attention? And if they are, do they catch our drift?
The trouble with much of what passes for communication today is that it's all crosstalk. It's a din, not a dialogue.
The noisy chatter reflects the fact that we don't really know how to engage one another in authentic conversations. We simply haven't learned the skills of listening closely to each other, of engaging in meaningful exchanges, and of finding shared sources of meaning. We lack the know-how and the tools.
As we move into times of accelerating change and deepening uncertainty, we need to get smart about how to talk to one another. We need to be able to overcome differences, find common ground, build meaning and purpose, and set directions together. We need to be able to think together as groups, as teams, as committees, as communities, and as citizens. >

In light of highlighting exciting dialogue, and in honoring authenticity and genuine conversation, I am including below, for my quality content of the day, a genuine and generous conversation between myself, @kimberlylane, @erh.germany & @goastrighter.

Not to exclude, there are other thoughtful comments to be read following @erh.germany's intuition article, but I will only include the two people I directly interacted with.

Please read on if you feel so inclined as I think the comments are meaty enough to go on as a regular post, but if you're out of time, or just looking for desserts, that is fine too. Let's just lean towards valuing one another in all of our genuine contributions to ongoing discussions and debates!

@kimberlylane
You ask, "Can a machine indeed interpret human intuition without being an organically grown entity itself?"

Of course I am no expert when it comes to computers, but my answer would be no, without human input the machine is still apt to fail at this task.

Yes, I do believe the ability to store huge amounts of data relating to particular cases and frequently chosen courses of action via human beings can be detected by the computer and after some time, the machine may start to have a higher probability of matching typical human reactions, but intuition (as shown by your research) lies outside of the typical.

Perhaps, we could say the computer could be replicating and producing "a gut hunch," minus having any guts ;)

I agree that intuition comes from learning and that the ability to intuit can definitely be dwarfed or grown depending on the care, environment and importance we place on it. In my opinion, that learning is not just about situations, but bodily sensations and emotions (as you've highlighted above) and how could these be trained into AI?

At the same time, if society grabs onto AI as being the final and greater word, the mass population will grow to doubt their own abilities with a greater zest--especially, if punishments for outside thinking begins to dominate society.

Actually, I think this is already happening and many people do doubt themselves and one another and they badger those around them who might begin their own questioning as to what is actual truth. This creates a socialized policing system and much pointing at one another rather than taking a macro view (as well as an inner-wisdom view) as to what the problem is.

I believe that my dreaming practices have greatly increased my intuition and not just in listening to, identifying and honoring my own inner voice when it comes to nighttime working through problems, but in the waking reality too. I am more apt to pay attention to what my emotions and/or body are saying and then to the responses and happenings around me. And, whether the crow starts cawing, "no," like crazy when I ask myself whether I should do something, I don't have to wonder if I'm crazy or if the world around me is really interacting with me in such a deep way or if these are mere coincidences, because that really doesn't matter. If I hear the crow saying, no, then that is what my own experience is leaning towards. A friend on the phone later might list all of the ways in which I might be wrong, but my initial interaction with the world was different than I am learning to lean more into that answer. Notice the IN in INitial and INtuitive, INteraction.

Thanks for an INteresting read :)

Kimberly

@goastrighter
"And, whether the crow starts cawing, "no," like crazy when I ask myself whether I should do something, I don't have to wonder if I'm crazy or if the world around me is really interacting with me in such a deep way or if these are mere coincidences, because that really doesn't matter."

That's such a difficult thing to properly make use of. You're right that it doesn't help to wonder about the how's and why's.. From a subjective point if view, with honest introspection I think anyone can feel the reality behind such moments.

@kimberlylane
Yes, doesn't help, but sometimes I still do look too closely at the how's and why's, second guess my own best magic.

@erh.germany
Dear Kimberly,

you have wisely spoken. I have not much to add and mostly come from the same standpoint.

Only I would say that you (and I) probably still think of it as a "problem", to which a policing and itself distrusting system overgrows this insight. I would say, it's maybe not the people but more the loudness of distributed messages.

When you look at an ordinary day you find it almost occupied with normality. Maybe a little percentage is drama in its physical appearance. A dog barking and the owner commanding him full of rage to quit. Or a baby crying itself sore and nobody around to sooth it. An impatient customer in the row mocking the cashier. But the rest of us doing their business, providing for food and shelter, doing the dishes, working the desk, buying birthday presents or greeting some strangers eyes. One dies, another one is born. We do what we can and we help where we were asked to help. And sometimes we are the road ragers and the uncaring ones who are observed by others. We say "no" but mean "yes".

We people are in our heads though really busy to identify problems and there, the ratio might be vice versa.

Your way of contributing to intuitive things, to let your associations flow freely and profit from them as your personal guiding system I appreciate a lot. Our human to human differences are a fortune, aren't they?

To doubt the inherent qualities and abilities I observe, too as a phenomena connected to the technological conveniences. Take a navigation system in a car. Before we had this luxury we had to rely on maps and also on our inner compass to navigate. We had to consider the movements in the physical world even more so when we walked by foot and had to orientate ourselves. Now, when there is no necessity to use those qualities people just neglect them and get the habit to always use the device. Did you mean this also?

To become an outsider by a rigid policy it really takes much. As long as you find people who do have things in common with you, I don't see a threat (in the sense of losing my life or going to prison). But even then: it would be good to know that one can stick to his ethical principles, no matter what.

Oh, that is true. You don't have to take an either-or position when the crow starts to cawing:) listening to your highest authority can be such a relief as it neither produces hatred nor ambiguity. I find this moments in my work much easier than within my private relations. I want to develop this quality and train my mind to be of more peace. ... Still a way to go:)

Now, my answer became long, lol :)

@kimberlylane
You write, I would say, it's maybe not the people but more the loudness of distributed messages and I completely agree with this sentiment.

Yes, I did mean we lose our capabilities when we depend on someone or something else to do it for us, but would also go further by adding that those systems which would like to profit off of others being blind consumers and workers benefit and encourage our losing touch with our own divine wisdom. And, those doing "right," by these systems will attack their neighbor for challenging their own by-in.

It's great to be able to discuss, in complexity, different values and beliefs and realize we're all in this together, informing one another. But sadly, in my opinion, this kind of free and considerate way of debating is being stomped out in politics, in education and even in one to one relationships.

Yes, most difficult exercising in private relationships and I too, will continue working this quality and daring in action.

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

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Photo Credit: Laura Thonne/unsplash
Article on Dialogue: The Power of Dialogue By Scott London http://www.scottlondon.com/articles/ondialogue.html