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RE: Open letter to change voting patterns | A plea to give #NewSteem a chance

in #plealast year (edited)

NewSteem was about getting outside of our own community.

It was about taking the changes we made. (way more than 1 element of EIP) and marketing them. The movement went viral because the community was hungry for a vision and some hope.

It was about not focusing all of our attention on our own bullshit and taking a mass of changes and turning them into Marketable Message.

You and the others involved can do what you want with your stake. (influence)

Personally I see no point in calling people names and group downvoting them if they are creating decent content, which creates engagement. It is a bit tempting to even try to protect them. (I have too much respect for the platform to enter into these games)

So the plea... You don't need approval.

It's getting better you say? I say my feed is really slow, many good users are were downvoted to nothing for weeks. Have you considered you might only being seeing what you want to see? Trending mostly is still whales and witnesses and announcements. (I don't mind that)

I'd like to see some data beyond just number of posts per day on who is posting (I bet the number of minnows to dolphins is down) but I could be wrong.

My confirmation bias is that I don't think it is better at all. Yours says it is...

How do we check?

I support you in using stake that is yours or that others have trusted to you however you like, but I do not think it is better at all. (also here is where I will get a lecture on getting the adsactly vote even though it was for 3 months of the 3.5 years I've been here making casual posts that very often were in the top 3 posts for engagement and one look at my voting would clearly show I am not vote trading with anyone.)

I respect that you are doing what you think is right and I already know any voice less than complete approval is going to get extreme push back... So, have at it. I'm just posting this response in case you are actually interested in some feedback and so we can discuss what would be a measurable way to determine if it is really helping... because it is clear that you truly think it is, but I have a different perspective. We both have legit reasons to see things from our own bias. How will we check?


I don't think newsteem was just about getting the word about Steem out there, I agree we need more of that and it has been really difficult to find people interested in onboarding even with good incentives behind it. I do think newsteem should be about honest curation and one reason I do believe posts have gone down is because there is a shift happening where those who posted just to farm their guaranteed ROI from buying votes are stopping and the authors who never bought votes and are now receiving curation are starting to realize what is going on and that may take some more time for those to either come back or new ones to join and notice that it might be worth it to stick around as there's a lot more eyes on their posts. Yes, that is also hard to measure since comments are down a lot but it just means we need to go out of our way to onboard more people. The majority don't know about Steem and its advantages outside of the rewards, many we have onboarded lately have been really surprised that there aren't more users here cause even their first weeks have been awesome and they loved the community.

While OCD will focus on onboarding and retention in the near future part of it is also making sure with OCDB that stake does not go back to be used in oldsteem ways.

Also I know you were one of the main people who started the "newsteem" movement and I'm not trying to tell you what it is, just the way how I saw it be considering the EIP changes and what it means for Steem and a working content discovery and stake distribution moving forward after two years of vote selling and only a little altruistic curation.

I'm for manual curation when possible, with both upvotes and downvotes and I think it is beneficial for the community. I do not think that group downvotes without thoughtful review of the content and engagement is meeting that criteria.

Also, I don't consider protecting and growing one's own investment to be altruistic in any sense of the word.

If you guys are going to continue this approach my suggestion would be to tone it down.

Personally, I think if the same amount of effort and coordination were focused on talking about Steem and spreading the word it would be a much better use of time.

Again, I am not suggesting that you have to listen to me, after all others have trusted you with their stake and maybe you should just quiet down and do your thing. :)

Vote trading is the same as self-voting, buying profitable votes is still the same thing that goes against the EIP. We have 1 user focusing on downvotes lately so it's not like we're giving it our all attention hence some times some votes get downvoted a bit too much or not enough.

Anyway, I agree we should put more effort into spreading the word about Steem and even better onboarding users and guiding them through the learning curve. Feel free to join our onboarding program to help out with that.

I self upvote once a day as I always have and have made many posts about it. I hold more stake than you do and have never had a large delegation. I earned and bought my stake and have manually curated nearly every day for 3.5 years. I've made casual yet popular posts most of those days too. Yeah, totally seems like I should be a target, I've been such a bad abuser of Steem. Huge eye roll and some cuss words here.

As if there was a concern someone couldn't have just messaged me.

I didn't throw any rocks at you guys... smh

Why are you writing this? lol, how do you know how much stake I have?

I just said that's what it seems like as you always come with the controversial comments that naturally cause a lot of heat.

Yeah, totally seems like I should be a target

Do you think you'll be a target of ocdb's downvotes?

I thought that is what you are implying above.

I don't personally see you as a vote-trader. Mainly those where outgoing and incoming votes are a majority from the same users in stake, while I personally also may vote on some people I value here on Steem and they value what I do when it goes over a certain threshold and there's no connection between the users beside the size of their wallets it is hard to not label it vote-trading which is the same as 10x self-voting daily or delegating to a bid bot for the same if not higher returns.


Posted using Partiko iOS

I bet that would apply to your posts as well as many others.

I do not think that group downvotes without thoughtful review of the content and engagement is meeting that criteria.

Are you counting downvote trails as group downvotes or are you saying downvoting anything that vote-trades and buys votes as group downvoting? We have minded the content in the past with out downvotes even on vote-buys so it's curation as well even tho this one doesn't get you any returns and only wastes all of your time going down the rabbit hole of explaining to them why they were downvoted.

I don't consider protecting and growing one's own investment to be altruistic in any sense of the word.

? Letting others earn 3x-4x more ROI than you do because they are risking their investment going to shit which it did while you try to keep users and retention going is not altruistic? Seemed to work well for donkeypong and those who could've made a lot more SP before they left after they realized it was all for nothing. What do you call those who didn't care about their investment and the currency at all throughout the years and just sold out turning Steem into a pile of proof of stake where content was just a placeholder piece of garbage?

Not to sound rude but sometimes it seems you just like to comment everywhere to seem important.

No, I meant that curating and downvoting is growing or protecting the investment.

Ait I'm done replying to your ninja edits

I do not think it is better at all.

This is interesting. I’m guessing perspective comes into this. From my perspective and the interests I have, things have improved no end. Content quality has improved from people who were doing little more than half hearted updates before the HF and rewards for good content have shot up. There are newcomers who are getting decent rewards straight away because their content is now being found and sent to the curation accounts and tribes. It probably also helps that we have more tribes and support for different areas now.

So I’m wondering, is the approach to NewSteem now defining good and bad content with too narrow a field? Has what you're interested in been tarred as bad content? You say NewSteem was about getting outside of our own community, how would you define that, exactly?

Taken literally, we can step outside of our communities, but if the subject matter doesn't interest us, then we're still not going to vote on it. Does that mean we're now going to be classed as circle jerking if we choose to stick to the content we enjoy? Now that the bots have been more or less sorted, attention is being turned to farming and circle jerking, but you have to wonder at what point people will class you as circle jerking. Also, will we start to be penalised if we use an autovoter for some of our voting (guilty ☝️)? A lot of people are saying we should only be manually voting.

Posted using Partiko Android

When I said get out of the community I meant we spend a huge amount of time focusing on things that only matter to the few people who are already here. No one who is not here cares about 50/50 or if the content is decent, who votes for whom.

My view is absolutely about perspective and I am very glad they helped reduce the bot votes. I didn't hate all bots but there was no question something needed to be cleaned up.

I realize we are all going to have different standards, but I do not agree the content has improved. Several of my favorite authors were downvoted for weeks and some of them have quit posting all together.

Also I am and have always been an advocate of casual posts.

Well, I think it is unrealistic to expect everyone who holds SteemPower to manually curate (Although, I do think it is best) It is a very limiting model

When I said get out of the community I meant we spend a huge amount of time focusing on things that only matter to the few people who are already here.

Ah, gotcha. A lot of the things I look at are pertinent to the world outside Steem too, so I guess I didn't think of that. A couple of the communities are very much for extending outside of Steem. After all, we're not going to have a very useful currency in Steem if it can't be widely used. The blockchain is a good repository for information which can't just get deleted like it does on Facebook.

Also I am and have always been an advocate of casual posts.

Are these the ones getting shot down? I've always enjoyed a post that gets a conversation going and those often are casual ones, so I get the need for them. This is the point where I say downvoting isn't needed. If you don't think the post deserves a vote, don't give it one, but if others have decided it was worth one, then that shouldn't be taken away from them.

There are always going to be opinions, though.

Posted using Partiko Android


I would just like to see the conversation shift from internal issues and opinions to promotion and development of the chain.

It seems to be better for me, at least has been @whatsup.

@steem-ph got curation that it never would have gotten if the bidbots weren't downvoted.

Having said that, I might be jumping into the middle of the discussion.. I just wanted to share that from my perspective it is better after HF21 and HF22.

I am glad to hear it. Also, I agree there were too many bidbots voting up too much crap. :)

I see you ran into a bit of a wall with downvoters... Its unfortunate whats happening but its really not a good reason to go after OCD.

and I already know any voice less than complete approval is going to get extreme push back...

When has this ever happened?

Trending mostly is still whales and witnesses and announcements. (I don't mind that)

What is it that you mind then? That is actually the biggest thing i personally mind. Lack of variety.
What is it you have a problem with? You cant say Newsteem sucks just because Haejin wont stop downvoting you.

I didn't go after them. I challenged the idea that what they are doing is better. Said we should find a way to measure. In fact I stated several times that I might have a bias.



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