Sophism examplified: The case of "The factual feminist"

in #philosophy8 years ago (edited)

Sophism is making a big comeback nowadays. That enchant Greek school of thought, as well as the phenomenon of teachers, hired for a considerable fee by young statesmen and aristocrats to teach them how to win an argument, are flourishing in our polarized and emotionally loaded political and social realm. It became so important for everyone to be right , that reason, fairness and commitment to the truth, are commonly looked at as elitism or just plain annoyance. Yet while everybody seem to just want to have the winner hand in arguments, no one wants to be perceived as ignorant or uncivilized, which leads to a gigantic mayhem, in which the same words can mean all kind of different things, and people don't seem to be able to agree, even on the definition of the word, "fact".

Case in study, Professor Christina Hoff Sommers, a.k.a "the factual feminist". I have never heard of Professor Hoff Sommers, before I've seen this Steemit post, by @skeptic . As I watched the YouTube video in the post, I felt as if I walked into a swarm of Sophist bees. So with a somewhat overwhelmed mind, I wrote in a reply that it's funny that she calls herself "Factual Feminist", while so little of what she says is facts. That led to a discussion in which @skeptic urged me to bring evidence to my proposition. I admit that at first a was reluctant. Making sense out of a carefully crafted sophistic lecture, is like trying to turn a scrambled egg back into an egg. The sophist tactics are so... well... sophisticated, that it takes allot of effort to break them down into specific fallacies, in fact, this is exactly how sophism works. However, since I was planning to write a post about sophism anyway, I decided to use this opportunity, and use "the factual feminist" as an example.

So in that mindset, I set down to watch the videos on "the factual feminist" YouTube channel. The first video I watched, was about gender bias in children toys, and it turned out to be a Sophism classic, with straw men arguments, cyclic logic, conjectures masqueraded as facts, smear towards the opponent's deviance and so on. The whole sophistic show packed into a 6:08 video. But then almost towards the end, it looked like the factual feminist finally gives some real evidence to support her claims. What was it? A research made by Lego that led to the development of their "Lego friends" theme, intended for girls.

Okay, throwback moment.

For me, as for many people who were children between the 1950's and the 1970's, Lego is something with a mythological status. The plastic building blocks, from which you could build just about anything were the source of many hours of enjoyment. I had this huge pile of the most basic building blocks, from which I built models of spaceships, skyscrapers, cranes and even a hydroelectric power plant (I actually used a motor from a broken electric toy car and a small flashlight lamp to show that it really works). And as friends would come by, we would play together in even greater enjoyment. I remember how in the beginning of the 1980's, although I grew up and was already not playing with Lego, I felt a sense of dismay, even of betrayal, when Lego did a shift from the generic blocks to a more thematic approach. I was not paying attention at the time, but as explained here ( part 1 , part 2 ), part of this transition was to specifically target only boys, which was certainly not the case until then.

So either the factual feminist didn't do her research or that she trusts her audience not to do theirs, yet some of us can sill remember when they used to build all kind of creative stuff from Lego, along with their sister, or elementary school female friend, but then of course, maybe it was just us progressive liberals, in a time when it seemed so obvious that gender equality is a good thing. Today, when parents wouldn't dare to let their baby boy wear anything pink, maybe nobody would care to question Lego's research and wonder if it is not just reaffirming the bias that they and others created trough their merchandising, if what the Lego research showed, was that girls, that were not subjected to their boys targeted campaigns, where simply playing with the Lego bricks in the same spirit of creativity and cooperation that those of us who were children before the company's strategy shift remember from their Lego playing experiences.

I don't want to argue with the factual feminist's views about feminism. She is entitled to hold them, although it seems to me that she herself feels somewhat ashamed. Otherwise, why doesn't she call herself as what she really is. A conservative lady who believes that there is something fundamentally different between men and women? maybe it's because she knows that there is a growing body of evidence, that the ways in which this difference manifests itself in a given society is more dependent on this society's attitude towards divisions and segregations, than on things inherited to the difference between genders itself?

The main mantra of the factual feminist, the reoccurring idea in all her videos, is that if given complete freedom to choose how to live, most women will choose to take the traditional feminine position, weather it is in carrier choices, fields of interests and so on. It is becoming more and more difficult to defend this approach, since this is simply what is going on. Take for example my day job of IT support. According to the common beliefs about the differences between men and women, women should have been much more successful in this profession. It requires division of attention, good memory for details and allot of teamwork. I can also tell you that the few women I did have the chance to work with in IT support, were indeed very good at it. So why we hardly see women in this profession? Inequality, in the true sense of the word, meaning artificial and interest based elimination of certain choices, based on arbitrary criteria is never a matter of choice. No one will knowingly limit her or his freedom of choice. True, people may choose to remain in their comfort zone, but even then they would probably want to feel that it is their choice. How can someone call herself a feminist if she is not all for doing everything in our power as a society, to avoid limiting the freedom of choice of people, based on gender?

So the factual feminist is not really a feminist, nor she is factual either. A fact is only a fact if it is true. And when pointing out something as a fact to an audience, Proffesor Hoff Sommers have to know that they may fact check her. Unless of course she trusts them not to, because she is talking to an audience that is already thinking the same way as she does. After all, flattery is certainly in the bag of tricks of sophists.

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I noticed you didn't bring up any points where she was wrong in the video I posted that I asked you to tell me where she was wrong instead of just making a vague statement where she is wrong with nothing to back it up.
You instantly dodged and went to another video in this post not talking about the video you originally were calling her facts lies.
Then you go off on a tangent about lego and feminism because lego was marketed to boys. like its misogynistic to market to the core group of your customers.
then you say this:

I don't want to argue with the factual feminist's views about feminism.

because she would destroy you with actual facts and evidence while you are using Marxist double speak and bullshit as your argument. you are talking about bags of tricks but you should look in the fucking mirror.

Then you go on to some anecdotal evidence about you in your job and how it is basically " Inequality, in the true sense of the word".

You then end your post saying she isn't factual and she isn't a feminist when you have not supplied one bit of evidence or anything about it. you ave dodged and and avoided the points and are trying to pull bullisht tricks just like you are climing others are doing.
So in the video I posted what did she say that was false? this is just pathetic.
im taking screen shots to save incase you edit it and im resteeming.
Im still waiting on a reply on the original post this started.

A statement backed up with no evidence can be desputed with out evidence.
all you have been doing is making claims based in nothing.

All kids love lego, it's true. if it's pink girls would like it even more actually.

legos rule! best toy ever invented imo.

Sophism is basically how to lie convincingly. If you consider Legos to be mythical, you need more help than I can provide. I challenge to you to point out ONE lie that Dr Sommers told...and don't bother with the self-contradictory circular "reasoning" (I'm in a generous mood today) you used above. Your article doesn't even make sense, every time you try to make make a point you immediately qualify it. Don't bother to answer, I don't have time for foolishness. My friend @skeptic is much nicer than me...stick to trying to impress him.

Back when I was doing some reading for one of my posts, I came across the research she is referring to. It has to do with giving toys to monkeys and seeing which they prefer. Female monkeys preferred the nurturing toys and male monkeys preferred the cars. Here is the link to the actual study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2583786/

I'm old enough to remember Lego before the complex, expensive spaceship sets of today. I remember all the kids, regardless of gender, played with Lego. Typically, people had their Lego in a bigass box, all mixed up, and kids built whatever they wanted. The pieces were colourful, not dark or pink or whatever specific palette of colour.

It is beyond me, as a parent who shops for a little girl, wtf a "gender non-conformity toy" is. It's probably the most retarded concept I've ever heard. My daughter has clothes and toys from whatever section of the store the best item can be found in. We've got another little girl in the family who is into IT. She's currently dismantling her computer as I type this. The activity depends on the kid, not their gender.

I think the issue here is that we are not impartially looking at her work. We all know that @Skeptic provides us with hours of SJW-related entertainment, sourcing their rubbish for our enjoyment. Dr. Sommers' work and position disputes the SJW position, which is why it's great to think that she's correct. While I hate the SJW as much as anyone with half a brain does, I cannot say anything to support or refute Dr. Sommers' research without reading her work and analysing her methodology. Her videos are just short clips to boost her publicity and spread her message, they don't sum up the entirety of her career's research. I tried to look her up on LinkedIn to gauge what her peers think of her position via groups, but she does not appear to be active.

What I do believe is that you are correct: she used Lego's research example in error, unless she closely examined their methodology and found it flawless. I doubt that is the case. I think it's just a poorly-selected research study, chosen on the heels of a popular debate and news articles about kindergartens banning Lego for boys. In that, I do agree with you, it is unlikely that she is being factual in that case.

Great look at sophistry and it's rise in argument today. As we increasingly view "facts" as relative, we will see more of this type of thinking.

I enjoyed your piece and included it in today’s #philosophy-review. Keep up the great posts!
https://steemit.com/philosophy/@aaanderson/the-philosophy-review-12-6-2016

Thank you very much!

As we increasingly view "facts" as relative, we will see more of this type of thinking.

Facts arent relative?
WTF?

Can't tell you're stance here, so I'll clarify mine: facts by definition aren't relative. People treat facts as if they are relative. Determining a fact is tricky business, which is why sofistry is effective.
This topic is obviously a hornets nest, but what I'm interested in is the concept of sofistry in contemporary discourse. Perhaps you belive @orenshani7 is also a sophist, all the better to get at the root of proper discourse.

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@skeptic , can you please tell, what is your definition of "fact"?

check the response i gave Anderson right above your question on the post. i think that will cover my side of the argument.
If not let me know and ill try to get back to you asap.

Tell me then, @skeptic , is it true that all elephants with wings also have 3 tails?

That has to be one of the stupidest questions I have ever heard someone ask.
Just wow!
I'm at a loss for words.

OK but nevertheless, can you answer it?

I can't understand the argument...eristikos = grasping at the flux of phenomena as the truth!

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean. Can you please explain?

A little background on my own families feminist fight. My (edit) great- great grandmother (1873) divorced her husband in the divorce he bought her an apple farm in Odell Oregon. Back in those days if you didn't own property you couldn't vote and or depending on the state you couldn't vote if you were a women or minority. Which left mostly white men with the ability to vote. My Grandmothers farm saved our family from the Great Depression...all the women throughout my families history in America and Europe and my Blackfoot lineage owned businesses and were major providers for our families, we were also married and sometimes not married...

As a female I do not want the privilege to work myself to death which is happening to has happened to a lot of men and women I've known. I do not want to be conscripted to go to war, only see my children in the early morning and late evening after they spend their day being cared for and taught by the state and people who may or may not care for them. Oh wait, feminism has brought me this privilege ....Obama has the papers ready to sign to let women fight on the front lines. Yeah I have the right to become canon fodder just like my beloved son!

Men's role in this society is fucked, I do not want to be like or have equal roles as a slave, wait...we are all slaves, slaves have no rights.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_rights_in_the_United_States

Your Lego argument was confusing and reminded me of the word...Eristic, (from Greek eristikos, “fond of wrangling”), argumentation that makes successful disputation an end in itself rather than a means of approaching truth. Such argumentation reduces philosophical inquiry to a rhetorical exercise. Eristic argument is closely associated with the Sophists and was ridiculed by Plato in his dialogue Euthydemus. The term is often used more broadly to characterize arguments that rely on subtle but specious forms of reasoning.

Professor Sommers brings the research done by Lego as "proof" for the difference preferences of boys and girls. She wants us to think that this was a scientific experiment that objectively showed that there is a difference, while in fact it may have just shown that Lego's campaigns to target boys specifically was successful. That was the point I was making.

The gender argument along with racist argument is a tool used by authority to divide and conquer. If you look at the rest of the world America has more freedom to express oneself as one wishes than anywhere else in the world, especially if you are a woman. But if you are in a certain class, if you are poor, you have very little freedom no matter what gender you are.

I have avoided arguing for or against feminism because we as a people are being abused by the authority who claims it knows what is best for us. The government says we must accept medicines we do not want, eat foods poisoned by big agriculture and the corporate bottom line, our children must be educated by the state, our property and labor are taxed, which means if we don't pay our taxes the government can take it, we have been enslaved through debt not our own through a private banking system, we can have our land, property, children taken by the state. We can be thrown in jail without due process ....that should be our argument regarding freedom, no one is free living in America right now.

America's Patriot Act violates five of the ten cherished amendments of the Bill of Rights: freedom of speech and assembly, protection from unreasonable search and seizure, due process, prompt public trial, and protection from cruel and unusual punishment. Though this act was passed by Congress, the executive branch's classification of secrets demonstrates an evaporating desire to share information with the legislative branch. Even if subsequent administrations reverse these policies, the damage has already been done. The Second World

How Emerging Powers Are Redefining Global Competition in the Twenty-first Century
by Parag Khanna, p332

I raised 3 girls and 1 boy and had most the neighborhood kids over to my house because I would let them run free on our farm, a hundred acres bordered up next to thousands of acres of wilderness. There is difference in genders, one may have a penis or one may have a vagina, and then some have both...lolol... but there is an overlap in behaviors, in our Native American society we have two spirit people who may not fit the main gender roles and can choose spiritual and creative roles that fit the mix. My boy and no problem hunting but my girls could not stand hurting anyone. However, I can butcher and eat animals I care for without a problem. My girls liked to please when young, my boy and the other boys had not a care in the world regarding pleasing anyone. All of us can sew, build houses, fix anything mechanical, we are also gifted athletes. Both genders love their kids and family. Only one gender can give birth though, the other gender protects during the time of the females vulnerability. One gender is not better than the other, we have different strengths physically and through our conditioning, which the conditioning is dependent on so many things.

I see the gender relationships as symbiotic. We care for each other through our different strengths and weaknesses. We as a society have been conditioned to see gender roles as a compitition for resources. We have been conditioned to see gender roles as abusive and subservant, even outdated.

[In America today] what matters, above race and gender, is the class one serves. John Pilger

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