A weird question I have after a debate with a Flat Earther.
Okay so.. I'm definitely not a Flat earther.. Though I am open minded to the fact we aren't being told the whole truth about where we inhabit.
But.. Here's one that's been on my mind a bit.
In one of my previous threads on the subject, a flat earther pointed out to me that no one has ever circumnavigated the globe vertically.
And I looked it up.. And.. There was one government expedition, but it's really sketch and hard to verify and they definitely didn't go like in a straight line.
They took a weird route, but anyways.. To this day.. If you use the Google.. You can look for it and find nothing but that one expedition.
Why has no one EVER flown north to south on the planet? Like even in a modern military plane or something?
There's no record of anyone going north to south other than that one weird government expedition which was a long time ago and the pictures are like black and white and stuff.
How come there hasn't been a modern plane flying over both of the poles and going all the way around in a way that was recorded as a circumnavigation?
Can anyone out there offer me some ideas about this? Why do you think that there has only been ONE weird government expedition a long time ago?
Why hasn't anyone in modern times just flown over north to south...? Or hiked it for that matter.
I definitely get a bit suspicious when there's only one example of something like this in a world full of so many people who wanna be the first to hike something or do something.
Look how many are still hiking Everest, how come no one has tried to do the globe north to south..? Seems a bit odd to me.
This intrigues me. I never knew we haven't gone from one pole to the other in a vertical fashion. You would think with the technology we have now, someone would have taken the ride by now. I too don't buy the flat earth theory, I just don't see why earth would be flat when everything else in space is a round ball. When water falls it forms ball like droplets, not flat disks. The laws of nature just don't support it. And the whole God made it flat doesn't work for me either, I think God actually fits in and made everything using the laws of nature. So even if the poles screwed up the GPS and compass couldn't the trip still be made using things like the position of the sun and using the stars as alignment?
Well there was one expedition called the Transglobe expedition, but the flat earths have issues with it and claim shenanigans. I am surprised it hasn't been attempted more than once.. People love doing crazy stuff like climbing Everest.
I would agree with you in regards to everything else you said, if there is a God it used the laws of nature. To me.. God kind of is the laws of nature and nature itself not an actual separate being, so.. I'm sorta with you there and in regards to the other stuff you said.
But umm.. Flat Earthers generally don't believe in GPS and satellites, and I'm not sure how they would respond to the rest of your argument. in regards to the trip being made with position of the sun and stars and such. I think they believe the earth is stationary so all the other stuff moves and we don't, theoretically you should still be able to find your way based on the stars to some extent though in a flat earth model. Not totally sure how it works though..
This might be the case @apolymask but the reason for it in my opinion has nothing to do with some conspiracy to keep us in the dark, it makes a little more sense to me that it would not be attempted for other reasons... I can think of two and of course I'm not a scientist, weather can be pretty unpredictable at the poles and to my understanding there is still much debate as to what country owns what parts of the artic with pending claims, which would make the airspace legally questionable (airplane routes have to approved). In my opinion the flat earth argument does not hold any water, if there was some round earth money to be made then exactly who would be paying it? and two, what would be the motivation in the 6th century to claim the earth to round. In any case, sorry for my rant... but until this day nothing I've read or heard flat earthers say has made me doubt...
The weather reason isn't really good enough for me, especially with the type of military planes we have now. They should be able to fly WAY up over all that stuff.
Your airspace point might be true. Though there was ONE expedition by the government before, so I assume they could do another one if people really wanted to make it happen.
Sorta like going back to the moon.. Why'd we never go back? I really doubt it is the reason they gave us. I'll just leave it at that.
I don't think the earth is flat either, but as I said I do think they may not be giving us the whole truth, there's a lot of weird geography going on with our maps, they portray certain contintents as way smaller, Antarctica for example is suppose to bigger than the US I believe, perhaps as much as 3 times as big I seem to remember reading? Yet it's portrayed as a small lil island way smaller than the US on the maps, Africa is also not represented properly.. So.. Something is weird.
In regards to the reasons that they might wanna conceal the shape of the planet..
Could be quite a few actually. Though most flat eathers just say becaue they want us confused about everything and not knowing what is true. Not even the most basic things like where we live.
My personal theories are, could have to do with keeping land hidden. Mayb they want us thinking everything has been explored and there's nothing left to explore while they build up their massive break away society and exploit it.
Or could have something to do with God even.. To me, in order for a flat earth to exist it would pretty much imply a God, cause nature doesn't form like that based on my understanding.. And I've seen others say that flat earth made them believe in God, so.. If it was truly flat, maybe they don't want people to believe in God.. I dunno. Could be other stuff as well, hope that helps with your understanding in regards to the possibilities. And no need to apologize! Thanks for your thoughts!
Wait are you saying the globe maps are incorrect, or the flat maps? Because the flat maps need to be distorted to fit onto a flat plane and so aren't accurate representations of the real size. The globe ones should be correct.
Check this out my friend, I did a quick search on the wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_route . Btw I'm not dismissing your points, I of course don't pretend to hold all the answers, but then again I'm skeptic to all claims even the ones I sometimes defend. Cheers mate
I'm a skeptic as well! I understand and appreciate that. Will check out the link when I get time. Thanks.
Maybe they have made the flight but haven't made it public, you never know, they probably file some of this stuff and seal it so nobody gets to know.
That's a good point. I would assume that to be true regardless of the shape of the earth. But there's only one vertical circumnavigation I can find, I do see some claims of others, though.. They aren't on any official lists that I can see.. And I'd have to dig deeper than I have the time for which is one reason I created this thread. Maybe someone else knows..
Maps look weird simply because they are globe projection maps. If you look at a globe, all of the continents look completely normal. There is no way to 'project' a globe onto a map without distorting something. There are tons of tutorials on this online, and there is even a 'projection map maker' where you can make a globe projection map with the center of the map anyplace you like on earth.
That the flat earth community cannot come up with a map that is not distorted, when it should be easy to map a flat plane onto a flat surface without distortion, is a big piece of evidence that the earth is not flat.
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-mercator-projection-distorts-countries-2017-6
Does this help?
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2015/january/22/around-the-world-over-the-poles
I'm not sure. I don't see any claims of it being a vertical circumnavigation in fact it looks like it was not.. Even though he did go over both poles.. I'm looking into it more though, thanks for the info.
Ah yes ..the story you read was about Admerial Byrd in the 40s... He said during a debriefing that as he flew over the poles ,he seen things that should not be there like green grass ,trees and flying creatures... Gets really good if you read the whole thing but he was told he was to never talk about what he had seen.. This goes into the hollow earth theory.. It was said Hitler had found it using tunnels under Artic ice.. As far as why no north to south expos... The poles interfer with gps and compasses
I'm aware of those claims. However that was not a circumnavigation and not the expedition I was referring to. He did fly over the poles, but not vertically all the way from one side of the planet to the other.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts though!
Thank you for sharing @apolymask
Have a nice day!!!
Glorious story? What was glorious about it?
I get the feeling you're just commenting to comment and not even really reading my posts. I'd appreciate it if you cease that, I've got so many people commenting on my page stuff that has nothing to do with the article like they didn't even read it.
I know sometimes there's a language barrier, and we have a lot of people from Asia and elsewhere on here so I'm trying to be patient and differentiate from people who can't communicate as well and those who are just botting or spamming or whatever.. But.. I'd appreciate it if you are a real person to be more specific in your responses.. My blog is looking like a nest of bots and spam.
Upvote and Resteem
@apolymask,
"no one has tried to do the globe north to south"
Actually no idea! Sometimes people might do! But actually I didn't hear it either!
Cheers~
Why would someone try that? Only reason would be just for doing it cause economically or for that matter for any other reason it doesn't make sense.
Why do they hike Everest or swim around the world chained to a log? Cause they wanna be the first to do something really difficult and physically demanding I guess? I can't say for sure, but.. People tend to like to be the first to do something difficult and hard so they can boost their ego and make other people respect or like them more.
Yes, but logically it would only be a certain kind of person who would do that it would have no significance other than to that person's ego.
Then why did the government do the only expedition on record vertically?
There must have been some other benefit besides just ego?
Well I would have to look into that, see if there was an ulterior motive, I had never really heard about that expedition.
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/first-circumnavigation-via-both-poles-surface
Not much data there, will search for more
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transglobe_Expedition
Just wanted to mention that I dug a lil deeper and I'm having trouble finding if it's a government sponsored expedition or not.. It may not have been. I'm not sure why I was under that impression since I can't find it now. But.. I guess it's possible it might have just been a regular expedition and not sponsored by the government.
Well, I think it would be hard to fly over antarctica, since I don't think there is many places they could get fuel. Maybe they could go by boat.
Can you please explain why this particular feat would have anything to do with a globe earth vs. a flat earth debate?
I've seen this particular claim twice and do not understand logically what this suggestion is about. What, specifically, would make that feat possible on a flat earth but not possible on a globe earth?
I've looked at both maps and I do not see any reason why it would be impossible on a globe earth, or possible on a flat earth such that this is an argument.
I would very much like an explanation of this as it doesn't seem to make any sense to me.
Also, I'm not sure what you mean by 'why hasn't anyone even hiked it'. I personally know several people who have cycled all the way from Ushuaia to the most far northerly point possible in Alaska. There are a few people who do that every year.
And many people HAVE circumnavigated Antarctica. And they have recorded times and speeds that are consistent with a continent of approximately 15,000 miles, not a 60,000 mile ice wall. Plus, there are tourist flights that even fly more than a thousand miles over Antarctica, and use 9 different routes so that repeat tourists can see different places. There have also been hundreds of other flights over Antarctica surveying it. So, we have quite a good idea that Antarctica looks exactly like it does on the bottom of a globe, a 15,000 mile in circumference continent.
So, a BETTER question would seem to me why people HAVE circumnavigated Antarctica. As that seems DEFINITIVE proof that the flat earth claims are incorrect, where why hasn't someone circumnavigated north to south seems like a bizarre concocted idea designed, not to prove anything, but to cast doubts that don't even make any sense.
Also, if I may make one suggestion? If you get into researching this flat earth thing, I always find it strange that people to to random social media places to ask questions that are specific to certain things. Like, for instance, I personally would get on a sailing forum and ask sailors a question like that, as many probably have the expertise to answer certain questions specific to sailing.
Just a suggestion. I just always find it strange that people go to flat earth forums on social media to ask questions that an expert on the subject will likely know and be able to explain quite well.
Yeah. I made an attempted joke post or a post to sort of make light of flat earthers by pointing out how many people have swam around the world or flown around it, were they all lying? How come no one fell off? Etc. And a flat earther responded telling me that according to their model the people circumnavigating horizontally are basically just going in circles on their map. But that no one has ever gone north to south, cause that wouldn't work on their map. So they try to say the one expedition that went north to south was uhh.. A conspiracy or a fraud or whatever. Propaganda. Hopefully that answers your question.
Well, there was the one expedition the Transglobe expedition, they claimed to have done it on foot, IE hiked it. Part of it was by boat and other vehicles, but.. I was wondering why no one since that expedition has done such. Whether on foot or otherwise.
I was talking about circumnavigating the planet vertically. Up and down specifically..
What..? I don't understand how you came to that conclusion. It's a genuine question, I never mentioned circumnavigating Antarctica.. Before you go around correcting people and telling people off maybe you should read what they actually said.
What was the suggestion? Lol. That you find it strange people ask weird questions on social media? I'm trying to be patient with you here.. But I mean.. I'm kinda chuckling.. It seems like you're so anti flat earth that you're trying to give me flak for discussing it in the calm manner I am instead of profusely insulting the flat earthers and decrying such imbecilic nonsense.
I've asked questions on social media about all kinds of stuff for like over 10 years, probably around 20. I'm definitely not going to stop just cause you didn't like my questions. And I do sometimes go to specific forums to ask questions, but.. Flat Earth is not a serious subject to me, it's a side issue I find interesting.. Not something I spend much time on. I doubt I'll ever get into it enough to go to a specific forum and ask questions, I'm just casually commenting on things I find interesting, nothing more. I think you read a lil too much into it. Cheers. Lol.
I didn't say that I don't 'like' your question. I said that if you truly want an answer, why wouldn't you ask where the experts that can answer those questions are? That was my point.
And I realize that you did not bring up the circumnavigation of Antarctica. I was merely pointing out the strawmen that flat earthers use, like why no one has circumnavigated north to south, which is not impossible, so far as I can see, on either model. However, the circumnavigation of Antarctica, particularly in 15,000 miles, is impossible on their model.
So, for flat earthers to ask such a question seems like a diversion, since circumnavigating Antarctica actually is impossible on the flat earth model.
You seem to feel I came off as rude or antagonistic, but I apologize as it was not meant to be. I was merely pointing out facts and asking a question as to why this particular issue was brought up, as I simply do not understand why flat earthers ask this question. It implies that it's impossible on a globe, but I've never seen any reason why that would be the case that it would be more or less likely on either model.