Ned on SBD: "Does the community want to continue to be paid out in Steem Dollars?"steemCreated with Sketch.

in ned •  2 years ago

Ned was recently interviewed on Epicenter, where he mentioned the Steem Backed Dollar as a component of complexity. This was in response to one of the interviewers commenting that the Steem White Paper was describing a "super complex system" making it "hard to understand what is going on".

ned-scott-roboticd6929.jpg
Ned had to transform into a robot and merge with
cyberspace for this podcast, as shown above

You can catch the start of the interviewer's comment at around 40m, and Ned's response afterwards, in the full audio file linked above. Thanks to @seanmeeh42 for posting the full podcast earlier.

Here is Ned's response, a short 2 minute clip:

Stream or Download

Ned explains the SBD's origin as a complex mechanism to "give people a place to go" as an alternative to STEEM, as a "Smart Contract wrapped around STEEM" and pegged to the US dollar.

An interesting thing about the SBD is brought up, Ned mentions "there is less of a need for the Steem Dollar" now that the STEEM cryptocurrency has stabilized from the inflation correction.

Additionally, Ned added a question to expound upon the previous comment, asking:

"Does the community want to continue to be paid out in Steem Dollars, or do they want the system to be even more simple?

i.e. to only have STEEM and the invested STEEM-Power.

What does the community think?

  • Keep the SBD
  • We only need STEEM/SP

Thank you for your participation, comments, feedback, etc. :)


Please feel free to share and resteem for more participation.


@krnel
2016-12-21, 7:18pm

Authors get paid when people like you upvote their post.
If you enjoyed what you read here, create your account today and start earning FREE STEEM!
Sort Order:  

I'm going to disagree with almost everyone here and say that in the long run we will be better off without Steem Dollars. I think a lot of the opposition comes from people who don't understand the fact that SD is not a token in itself.

It is a smart contract to buy one dollars worth of Steem and it introduces the whole issue of debt into the economic equation in a way that may actually make Steem less stable. Getting rid of it may actually increase the value of your payouts.

Speculators will either have to buy Steem or not buy Steem - the presence of SD gives them a safe place to hedge against volatility but the price for that is reduced demand for the real currency which is Steem. As long as you have the SD it will prevent the Steem market from maturing.

Getting rid of it has nothing to do with simplicity - that is an added bonus. The real reason to get rid of it is economic and if you are here you should care about that.

·

To steem, SBD is a like crutches, a wheelchair, or bicycle training wheels, it's time to move on without it. I see a bright future for steem with no steem dollar

·

Great points! The increased volatility of Steem due to SBD wasn't mentioned on the show and it is true.

·
·

I am all for the removal of SBD if doing so serves to give STEEM the wings it needs to soar to the heights we all know it is capable of reaching. One thing that I believe needs to be clarified in greater detail is how that process would be actuated.

There are plenty of SBD tokens out there currently being held by members of the community. It seems to me that if all SBD were exchanged for $1 worth of STEEM at the same time then that would be a serious problem.

I would expect the removal of SBD would have to be phased out over a period of time, and I think that you or Dan should present the community with a plan of action for how that could--should the community want it--be implemented.

There needs to be a clear method in place as to how this would be achieved before users can confidently decide whether it will be helpful or hurtful to the economy.

·
·
·

This is the main issue that needs addressing.
The community/traders would have incentive to lower the price of Steem in order to get more Steem per SD. Simultaneously, this would incentivize the holding/buying of SD to sell at latest point possible.
The only clear solution and fair method to address this connundrum that I can see is for Steemit to purchase ALL SD at either market rate or preferably an agreed price which would also have to have the consensus of the community/stake-holders. We can't just take or force holders of SD to sell, however holders after a certain date would be holding them on a defunct chain.
The further benefit to this is that it would distribute Steem further, help further de-centralise consensus/influence and substantially reduce Steemit's holdings. This would be consistent with Steemit's stated goals and would address the further problem of perception and FUD currently circulating by detractors.
If this can all be managed, then I believe Steem has a great chance to become THE digital cash of the future. This would help marketing and general perception and adoption by the larger public I believe. Anyway, just my thoughts....

·
·
·
·

The main benefit that I see with SBD is that there is little to no risk "cashing it out." I've withdrawn around $5000 since starting steemit, but all in the form of SBD. Since it'll always be worth around $1.00, I won't miss my chance by selling it too early or too late, so it's a safe way to earn something now from steemit.

I have almost 7000 liquid STEEM, because I have only rarely powered up 100% and I have never sold any STEEM. My SP and STEEM will be held long-term.

From my point of view, SBD is the best way to withdraw something from the wallet without risking major losses in the future because of a premature withdraw.

Of course, we all want the value of STEEM itself to increase, so if removing the SBD from the platform can help accomplish that, then @papa-pepper will support that decision, but the stability of the SBD may be worth more to the platform in other ways, so many variables must be considered.

Thanks for all that you guys have done and are doing @ned!

·

Absolutely, it's not needed and will help simplify things over all, as Ned suggests. But those who want the quick $ will want to keep it around for now.

·
·

Those people have no grasp of economics.

·

but the price for that is reduced demand for the real currency which is Steem. As long as you have the SD it will prevent the Steem market from maturing.

Can you elaborate on that? How is the demand for steem reduced? Interested to learn more about this.

·
·

Read my responses elsewhere in the same post. Sorry it is 2 am here and must go to bed:)

·
·
·

Can you paste a quote maybe? I did read your posts and couldn't find any explanation which is why I am asking.

·
·
·
·

Here is the simple one. This is not the only reason though.

I want to increase my Steem holdings. I could buy Steem now or buy in the future. If I buy now I have the risk that Steem will devalue and be worth less in the future.

If I hang onto SD it will still be worth one dollar in the future and if Steem falls I will be able to buy more Steem for my SD in the future.

It therefore makes sense for me to hold onto SD if I think that there is a potential for Steem to fall.

The more people that do this the less demand for Steem there will be, further you also increase outstanding debt in the system. This can then become a self-fulfilling prophecy - less demand for Steem leads to lower prices, leads to lower demand. That makes SD even more attractive.

Even if Steem is only falling slowly it encourages more people to invest in SD instead of Steem. Markets work on sentiments and this kind of sentiment can easily get out of control and become a downward spiral.

I hope that explains it.

·
·
·
·
·

Thanks for your answer. I don't know why but I always had this idea that the SBD interest incentive would bring in many investors and thus create demand for steem. I was wrong I totally forgot that they could directly buy SBD on the market instead of steem so SBD doesn't really offer any benefits for steem/ SP holders does it?
If the answer is no then it's a no brainer to remove SBD entirely.
Users who invest in steem can deal with the fluctuation, this is to be expected. And I don't think users who earn steem by blogging would be really bothered with slight price movement.
It looks like SBD owners would create debt whether they sell or not, when they sell more steem are created and when they don't the interest they receive from not selling would also mean new steem were created, how does the system keep the debt in check ? Seems like SBD is creating constant inflation is that right?
It make sense to get rid of SBD I think.

·
·
·
·
·

It therefore makes sense for me to hold onto SD if I think that there is a potential for Steem to fall.

Getting rid of SBD does not change this. If I think STEEM is going to fall I will hold BTC or Tether or real USD or something else. I won't suddenly decide to hold something I expect to fall because you have removed one of a huge number of available alternatives. This argument is nonsensical.

·
·
·
·
·

Also, SBD isn't in high demand externally. Look at Poloniex... there are zombie coins trading at higher levels. People don't rush into SBD as a hedge... they go to BTC, Tether, etc. My god, has SBD become the zombie coin within Steemit.com??

·

Steem Dollars have, for me, always been a quandary.

On the one hand, it has been really nice to have them as an option. On the other, I realize that having the power to demand a certain dollar amount of Steem at any time can only lead to Steem inflation.

I don't know that I am ready to let go of the Steem Dollar, but, at the same time, I don't know if Steemit can survive with it.

·
·

That is the heart of the problem I think. We want what is best for Steem but common sense says to hold onto those SD if we think the price will fall. Multiply that by a thousand or ten thousand and it is a problem for demand. On an individual basis it makes sense because we want to increase our holdings but as a community it hurts us.

·
·

having the power to demand a certain dollar amount of Steem at any time can only lead to Steem inflation.

It leads not specifically to inflation but to leverage. That is, increased inflation when the STEEM price is declining but decreased inflation when the STEEM price is rising (i.e. $1 paid out in SBD rewards can only demand a smaller number of appreciated STEEM)

·
·
·

Getting rid of SBD does not change this. If I think STEEM is going to fall I will hold BTC or Tether or real USD or something else. I won't suddenly decide to hold something I expect to fall because you have removed one of a huge number of available alternatives. This argument is nonsensical.

Nonsensical to you perhaps. Not to me. On the basis of that reasoning we don't need SD anyway since we have USDt or real USD.

We will not agree on this so let's just leave it there.

·
·
·
·

Why not offer a competing and potentially superior USD peg token within the ecosystem instead of using something external? Unless I'm wrong, Tether has 10 minute (average, so you could be waiting 30 minutes+ sometimes) confirmation times because it's built on Omni which is built on the Bitcoin blockchain. Steem blocks are 3 seconds apart. Nowhere do I see Tether being advertised as speedy.

It might be a longshot but Steem's SBD has the chance of being a popular and possibly even de facto USD pegged token in the cryptocurrency world as it expands to include more than just computer nerds (in line with the goal of Steem).

·
·
·
·
·

I think it is dependent on how many people it brings in. It might be useful to get some more expert economic opinion on this - I wonder if there are any economists in the community who can look at this?

·

I was on the fence, but your comment just made my mind up. I didn't understand the complexities of SBD and how it effected the price of STEEM, and judging from the comments, neither do most here. Thank you for explaining it in perhaps the most concise way possible.

·
·

Thanks I'm glad it made sense.

·
·
·

I have read enough of your posts to know that this is simply not true.

·
·
·
·

Thank you :) Sorry I edited out the second bit but thank you for your kindness. It is hard to know how well one is explaining things oftentimes.

·

In the long run sure, SBD could be done away with. But not while people are still learning about crypto and we want to be the ones to introduce them to it. We are miles and miles away from being ready to give up the stable gateway cryptocurrency that brought so many people to the crypto space back in July.

Honestly, I don't think I'd even be here if it weren't for SBD. At the very least I think we should take our time to adjust to the recent economic changes before we go making more.

·
·

I don't think you understand the point I am making. People will go where the money is whether the SD is there or not. For example I prefer Bitcoins to regular money because of the potential for it to grow in value.

SD let's people hold a cryptocurrency without any risk of loss of value - that means that there is no incentive for anyone to really buy Steem. That cuts demand which reduces price.

At what point do we say we have gone too low 1 cent, one tenth of a cent? It is not sustainable.

Simplicity for newbies is not good enough of an excuse to maintain it. If Steem goes down to virtually zero no newbies will be coming after it - nobody will want it.

·
·
·

As Ned says in the interview, the price is not what's important right now. What is important now is growth.

I understand perfectly that SBD is a token if debt. Technically though, the pound is a token of debt too. Yes, it will reduce demand for steem for those who are still adjusting to cryptocurrency. But for those who decide that cryptocurrency is a concept worth learning about and buying into, it is SBD that will ease them into it. Everybody else will gradually see value in Steem as SP and that will gradually increase demand.

I'm not worried about the price hitting 1c although I don't think that it will. There is enough passion for steem right here, we don't need to force noobs into it. They need to come to the realisations we did themselves.

·
·
·
·

You can't disentangle the two. The pound (even though it is doing badly now) has nowhere near the volatility of a cryptocurrency.

The lower the Steem value goes, the smaller the value of payouts will be. New people will be less attracted by that.

Further I don't think having a pegged note is any simpler than having a cryptocurrency on it's own. People can understand that different currencies have different values.

I really don't see any disadvantage to removing the Steem Dollar in that sense. People will go where the money is like I said before. Money is a great motivator to learn new things.

·
·
·
·
·

People will go where the money is -correct. So what does it matter if the payouts get low? I don't see any other social media platforms paying me a couple cents for a comment. We're safer to attract a userbase while the price is low, rather than when the price is unrealistically high, as people quickly get used to making that kind of money, and suddenly $40 a post isn't enough. This is a better price to grow at!

·
·
·
·

I think most people would go where they are getting $40 dollars versus 40 cents. Further at some point i.e. when your payouts become next to worthless you don't have any benefit left versus other websites that don't pay you.

We must also be wary that there are several alternatives and someone could easily spin off their own version of Steemit that gets this right.

I don't see the compelling reason to keep the SD on that basis.

·
·

steem will be a much stronger currency without the ball and chain of SBD, and users who get paid will follow the money wherever it goes, steem with SBD is like a baby with a pacifier, already got rid of pampers(hyper inflation), and steem will be a toddler soon, no need for SBD

·

Perfect response. I agree... always thought it would be too confusing to have two tokens. Having two tradeable tokens is confusing to new users.

·

Oh sir you hit the nail on the head.

·

Your argument seems logical to me @thecryptofiend!

·
·
·
·
·

Speculators will either have to buy Steem or not buy Steem

No they don't. They can simply go elsewhere (including USD etc.), as can merchants and users. No one is limited to the choices offered on one particular blockchain.

·
·

You miss the point entirely.

·
·
·

I disagree. I believe you are missing the point. SBD provides a distinct service, which brings more people to the Steem blockchain and ecosystem, adding value to both through greater adoption and incremental utility. The situation that is realistic is not people being forced to choose between STEEM and SBD and therefore choosing STEEM instead, it is people choosing between anything Steem and something else. People who are put off by volatility (which is a huge impediment to cryptocurrency, even the least volatile) and want stable value will not suddenly decide on STEEM from the entire universe of assets (or the smaller universe of blockchain) if SBD is eliminated, they will simply not be here at all.

·
·
·
·

We will have to disagree on this.

·

So let me ask you, why was SBD created in the first place? Why are the reasons for its creation any different today as then were then?

·
·

So let me ask you, why was SBD created in the first place? Why are the reasons for its creation any different today as then were then?

The original reason as I understand it was to give a more stable currency to be utilised against the hyperinflationary nature of Steem itself. I don't think it was meant to be used or traded the way it was. Since we no longer have the hyperinflationary model the rational for it is gone.

·
·
·

I'm happy we've done away with hyperinflation, but that's no reason to remove SBD since it wasn't the only way of escaping the hyperinflation to begin with. In fact, there were many options to avoid the hyperinflation of STEEM (including SP, almost any other cryptocurrency, most fiat currencies, etc.)

For many people, the primary value proposition of SBD was (and still is) instead to escape the volatility of cryptocurrencies, while still holding an asset 100% in their control (i.e. zero counter-party risk). In fact, I would argue that this is the best reason for most people to hold SBD (perhaps aside from earning interest, depending on your needs and point of view).

Some have also argued that SBD causes systemic risk. But in that case why not just lower the interest rate (substantially, if need be)? That way fewer people will hold it, but it will remain a selling point for some % of people that otherwise might not consider the platform.

·
·
·
·

Great point. I hadn't considered that. Could we make the interest rate zero or equivalent to it to in an economic sense to just compensate for real world inflation? I think that could be a compromise. Thank you:)

·
·
·
·

Great points here @tombstone! It also allows people to "hide out" in times of volatility in the underlying currency while not leaving the ecosystem... not many other cryptocurrencies allow you to do that! :) BTW, what made you pick your name? Tombstone is one of my all time favorite movies! :)

·
·
·

Since we no longer have the hyperinflationary model the rational for it is gone.

Granted, we did away with hyperinflation, but there are other benefits that are just as valid to helping noobs understand and adopt SBD and Steem and easier for merchants to understand. Isn't that just as important?

Can it be sustained and paid for with the Steem price so low? That seems to be the real issue. Is it being managed right?

I know some of my friends joined because they liked the simplicity of the SBD. It's easy to understand for them

·
·
·
·

I don't think there is any way to know for sure. These are new realities and it is all very experimental.

·

As long as you have the SD it will prevent the Steem market from maturing.

That really really doesn't make sense. There are plenty of price-stable places to put your money if you want a volatility hedge; for example: USD. By your argument, "as long as we have the US Dollar, it will prevent Steem from maturing." I have a (relatively) large SBD balance; I have that balance because I want price stability. If I were forced to get rid of my SBD, I'd simply convert it to USD.

·
·

Maybe but my view is that it distracts attention from Steem itself. Right now you have two choices if you want to invest in Steem, Steem itself and SD.

I would be interested in some professional economic opinions on it.

I have a (relatively) large SBD balance; I have that balance because I want price stability. If I were forced to get rid of my SBD, I'd simply convert it to USD.

That doesn't mean everybody would. It is not a straightforward issue and I think everyone does things differently. That is why how markets behave can often be counter-intuitive. For everyone who sells there is also someone who buys.

I'm certainly no expert though so I would love to get some feedback from someone who has professional knowledge in this area. Perhaps there are historical examples of something similar that we can use to guide us?

Also what do you think of @tombstones suggestion of reducing the interest on SD?

Stable concurrency as SBD is the best thing which increase user addoption among non-crypto people. SBD combined with rate-limited-free-transactions is a killer feature for wide global adoption.

I am not objective, because right now I am leading new startup called Prio (more details soon!) which use STEEM blockchain as backend.

One thing is sure: SBD is essential for us. Thanks to SBD, our application is super simple for average Joe, who knows nothing about technology and can use cryptocurrency without even knowing that.

I like the SBD they are simple and pegged to the U.S. I think they should stay. It's less confusing to grab some money when you want to take some out or pay someone. I vote to keep SBD. It's also what I would withdraw first and leave my Steem in place (unless Steem is dropping)

It's not the system that's confusing people. It the lack of good organized and centrally located collection of educational and support videos that explain all aspects of Steem, SBD and Steemit.

When a new user logs in they should be given a walk through and access to video training.

·

It's not the system that's confusing people. It the lack of good organized and centrally located collection of educational and support videos that explain all aspects of Steem, SBD and Steemit.

worth repeating

And include an intro to the blockchain concept if you want to draw in complete newbies

·
·

It's not the system that's confusing people. It the lack of good organized and centrally located collection of educational and support videos that explain all aspects of Steem, SBD and Steemit.

worth repeating

Worth repeating again.

This is absolutely the case. There is nothing whatsoever "complex" about SBD from the end users' perspective. It is the simplest thing about the entire system!.

·
·
·

Worth repeating again.

and one more time

It is the simplest thing about the entire system!.

Exactly! 10 times more difficult is explaining how to add pictures to blog posts on steemit.

Are you kidding me? Before the effects of the last fork and change to payouts can even be evaluated, there is happy discussion of removing the the pegged dollar? That is the only unique thing about this crypto currency, without it this little blog farming project will turn into bitlanders.com.

Obviously a massive failure is anticipated due to the power down changes or this would not be filtering up to public discussion.

·

Yeah, if such a change is going to be commenced, we should at least wait a while first to better observe the effects of the last hardfork. Too many changes too quickly would rob us of our ability to learn from them.

Ned mentions "there is less of a need for the Steem Dollar" now that the STEEM cryptocurrency has stabilized from the inflation correction.

I agree with the above wholeheartedly; however that doesn't mean that there won't ever be a need for SBD.

The fact remains that SBD is still a good long term investment; you have a pegged cryptocurrency that holds its value over time. That is something we don't want to forget, apart from bitcoin, what over crypto can claim that?

Next is the fact that the existence of Steem Dollars means that a lot of Steem is tied up in order to back the SBD being produced, which helps the supply side of the supply/demand equation.

Which leads onto the fact that SBD is a great way to burn Steem via the promotion tab, again shortening supply and increasing demand.

Ultimately, I don't want to see SBD go, it is a Unique Selling Point of Steemit.com, and we shouldn't rush to get rid of what makes us different and special.

My two Steem cents :-)

By the way, brilliant article @krnel, thanks for sharing this.

Cg

SBD is a good idea, but bootstrapping SBD to a wildly volatile network was a huge mistake. The SBD debt collected during the initial peaks of Steem has been greatly detrimental to the Steem network. It's been an incredibly vicious cycle of people losing confidence in SBD > witnesses offering massive discounts to Steem > pegging SBD at an enormous expense in the value of Steem > now with a high debt ratio, offer further discounts etc. This further increases the SBD debt, so on and so forth.

Not to mention the overly complex currency system. It should just be Steem. Steem Power is already redundant - just make the current Steem holding in a Steem account determine influence. SBD can be done away with.

It needs to be one token. Everything else is poor design.

Of course, keep the "Estimated value in USD" for familiarity; the rewards shown on posts can also be the same.

·

"It's been an incredibly vicious cycle of people losing confidence in SBD > witnesses offering massive discounts to Steem > pegging SBD at an enormous expense in the value of Steem > now with a high debt ratio, offer further discounts etc. This further increases the SBD debt, so on and so forth."

Yup, that's what @thecryptofiend was getting at as well. It's not good in the long term to operate this way.

·

You are greatly overstating the magnitude of the costs. The highest the debt ratio ever got was 9% which means assuming that SBD had no original cost and was all redemeed at that moment (in fact neither was the case), the result would be an incremental 9% dilution.

In fact the cost of debt problems, overstated though they are, was only even that large because action was not taken to properly manage debt earlier into the decline, when the cost would have been extremely modest (e.g. 2% reduced to 1%). Even that is not really a pure cost, except in hindsight. When the STEEM price goes up, the opposite benefit occurs. Given balanced up and down fluctuations, there is no (or negligible) net cost.

If we get rid of STEEM dollars (one degree of complexity and value), then what can we gain in return that we can't have now BECAUSE the SBD is getting in the way? (more speed?)(more scalability?)(more Facebook options?)

You can't ask me to concede something of such high value without giving me something back in return. Nobody will buy it. If you don't want to show the noobs the SBD, then don't utilize it on Steemit.com, and just let other users (busy.org, e-STEEM, etc) access these kick ass features. It's that simple, unless, of course, we can get a new 1 second transaction engine and ditch this old 3 second transaction POS. If that's the case, and we can choose to add new features (let's discuss THIS) that we could not otherwise by hanging onto the SBD.

You are going to have to give me something pretty good if you want to take away the vehicle that shielded SBD holders from losses over the past few months!

Hey, maybe we can convince the government to eradicate the FDIC insurance because it is too confusing. Social security and medicare too! let's get rid of all confusing and complex and complicated stuff!

Yes, STEEM is complex, but so is life and the human body. One wrong snafu inside you, and it's lights out. In other words. YOU are complex, so when you say that complex stuff sucks, then....well... Maybe we should give Dan and Ned a couple lobotomies so that the average person can understand them better than they can now?

·

Without STEEM dollars, the current market cap of STEEM dollars would surely be combined with that of STEEM, no? If this is true, then perhaps the pegged-to-a-dollar status of SBD could be liberated and we could potentially see the price of STEEM begin to rise and reach new heights. I'm no expert with crypto though, so I could be wrong about that.

What I do know however, is that you may be underestimating the power of an unnecessarily over-complicated system to deter new users from jumping on the Steemit bandwagon. If we have the opportunity to simplify things, and if doing so could increase the number of people who decide to join and stay on Steemit, then that is surely something that ought to be considered.

Have you ever heard the quote "A society will be judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest members," before?

While this quote was probably a lie told by some politician who then proceeded to get elected and did nothing for the weakest in society, I still feel that it nonetheless holds a vital life lesson.

Should we apply this philosophy to Steemit, then perhaps keeping things complicated in spite of the knowledge that it would put some of our users at a disadvantage, would ensure that this ecosystem and community be judged on par with that of the one that dominates society offline.

I believe the founders created this site on a block chain and with open transparency so that they could build something better than what the world has to offer. I see this as an opportunity to rise above petty arrogance and demonstrate the integrity of Steemit by providing equal opportunities to those whom otherwise would be left behind.

I shall admit though, that there is potential dangers with sacrificing a currency that has proven stable to the dollar, yet at the same time.. how stable is the dollar?

I feel this issue warrants a lot of discussion and I thank the poster for sharing it with us. I'm intrigued to see where the community lands on this.

·
·

SBD is not what deters new users. Cryptocurrency might, but the SBD isn't specifically deterring users as I know that it's far easier to relate to for a crypto noob than the now highly liquid steem token. Imagine writing your first post and getting $100 dollars, then going away and coming back a week later to find out it's now worth $50. If you're used to crypto you might be OK with that, but for people who are new to it, that's a total turn off.

·
·
·

I was not necessarily asserting that SBD in itself was deterring new users from the platform. It is the fact that there are two crypto-currencies involved with the site rather than one that may overwhelm some new users.

I know at first I was confused about why there needed to be two different currencies. I stayed and found out, but that doesn't mean that every oneelse will.

Making things as simple as they possibly will provide new Steemians with the most user-friendly experience that could be offered. It is my opinion that this will do wonders for user-retention, and in the long run the growth of the platform.

·
·
·
·

I don't think 2 crypto's is deterring users I think crypto itself is. You read it's a "token" and suddenly it's not money. Even though that's exactly what a dollar bill is - a token of debt!

When I saw 3 cryptos I find SBD the easiest to understand and quickly concluded that that's the only one I need to know about. With time and presence on the platform I appreciate steem a lot more, but that takes time and I was NOT new to crypto when I came here! So it's much harder for those who are.

·
·
·
·
·

I understand your perspective and it holds water too. Though, most people who are advocating your position to retain SBD in the comments are expressing STEEM's volatility to be a significant cause for its difficulty with new users.

@thecryptofiend's comment below does an excellent job of delineating the role that SBD plays in that volatility. Should SBD be removed from the equation, then we may very well see the price of STEEM stabilizing, negating at least one of the complexities of STEEM for new users.

·
·
·
·
·

By the way, there is one thing they could do is make this more relateable to what people already know. Tokens/Steem/Steempower should be credits , or something. So Steem Power would be SuperCredits . Or, let users flip between ways of displaying it default to $ dollars and credits , but let crypto peeps flip it to the perspective token names steem / steempower . Also, maybe people can have the option of tucking away ' steem savings , steem power' I mean not everything has to be displayed by default.

·
·
·
·
·

Agree with you 100%!

·
·
·
·

There are not two but three. Sbd, steem and bitcoin. In order to get in you go through bitcoin and in order to cash out you go through bitcoin.. Sacastically speaking why not get rid of both SBD and Steem?

·
·
·

Exactly. I know some of my friends that have joined and are now posting on Steemit would not have joined if the only rewards we Steem. The SBD's peg to the dollar and the interest it earned was a big selling point for them and made it easier to understand.

Plus, I think only having the Steem to trade right now would flood the market even further and drive the price lower. We haven't even moved past the 13 weeks change in the power down time since the last fork. We all knew the price was going to go down again. I don't think it's a good idea to kiss SBD goodbye. I'm for keeping it.

·
·

Without STEEM dollars, the current market cap of STEEM dollars would surely be combined with that of STEEM, no?

Even if this is true (I reserve judgment), that would only add about 3% to market cap, barely enough to notice.

·
·
·

I wrote this comment before I discovered @thecryptofiend's concise explanation as to what SBD is and how it negatively effects the growth of STEEM.

·
·

I don't see how SBD complicates things. It makes the rewards easier to explain to noobs and easier to price things for commerce.

I shall admit though, that there is potential dangers with sacrificing a currency that has proven stable to the dollar, yet at the same time.. how stable is the dollar?

more stable than Steem and that's the point, isn't it?

·
·
·

As I explained just a few comments below, should SBD be done away with then STEEM would have that stability anyway.

·
·
·
·

I disagree. More Steem on the market will lower the price some more as did changing of the powerdown to 13 weeks.

It's a new crypto and the price is going to be all over the place. Look at all the other crypto's that have no additional tokens pegged to fiat. Do they look stable to you? Adding a stable token is a selling point. Perhaps it's unrealistic to think we could stabilize any token at all.

·
·
·
·

The difference to STEEM would be minimal. SBD is currently about 3.5% of STEEM in terms of market cap. Folding back in that 3.5% would hardly make a day and night difference to anything about STEEM, including stability. A lot of these claims are greatly exaggerated.

·

It has nothing to do with complexity. The SD reduces demand for actual Steem. That is the real currency. SD is a smart contract.

·
·

ahhh I see, make us more like bitcoin. I get it, btc is hot, STEEMIT is not, but maybe we need to get a little more closer to the market cap of bitcoin before making a reverse course now. FULL STEM AHEAD , I say, let the men do their work, faster gents, more upvote power! let's go now!

·
·

But if the only token we have to trade is Steem and everyone starts trading it, will it not just flood the markets and drive down the price, negating the stability claimed to be gained by SBD's removal. Having a place to park Steem, in steem power or SBD, is a nice feature.

We all knew the price was going to drop after the fork. I say we leave it alone and work on UI and onboarding features. Nothing will stabilize the price of Steem like more users that we can retain and engage.

·
·
·

But if the only token we have to trade is Steem and everyone starts trading it, will it not just flood the markets and drive down the price, negating the stability claimed to be gained by SBD's removal.

No the Steem is already on the markets. If anything it should reduce the Steem on markets as those who want to invest in the Steem ecosystem only have one choice.

Having a place to park Steem, in steem power or SBD, is a nice feature.

It's a nice feature but no Steem is actually parked in the SD. It is a smart contract that entitles you to a certain amount of Steem in the future. If everybody parks there money in SD then their are fewer people parking their money in Steem itself.

·
·
·
·

If anything it should reduce the Steem on markets as those who want to invest in the Steem ecosystem only have one choice.

if all I had was Steem I would still have 2 choices. Power up or sell my steem for BTC or fiat. No different than now except I would have to decide the minute the Steem is earned to avoid the volatility.

·
·
·
·
·

No different than now except I would have to decide the minute the Steem is earned to avoid the volatility.

Exactly. So you without it you either choose Steem or you don't. There is no Steem lite with lower risk which is how I'm starting to view SD. By holding SD you don't take the volatility risk.

·

I agree with the above comment, not for all the same reasons, but near enough I'm upvoting it.

I don't think SBD should be cut out of Steem. It goes hand-in-hand with the goal of Steem, to broaden the userbase of cryptocurrency. People that live in economies with shaky currency may be able to adapt to 100 STEEM today being worth what 10 STEEM was a few months ago, but the simple fact is, the people who have money don't deal with that as well.

Given its relevance, I'm surprised nobody's linked to this post from the architect of Steem yet:
https://steemit.com/steem/@dan/steemit-s-evil-plan-for-cryptocurrency-world-domination

·

Conversely, SBD is a reckless idea when Steem is 95%+ volatile. Steem should not be backing anything, let alone a USD. The SBD debt collected during the initial Steem peaks has been tremendously detrimental to the Steem network.

Perhaps the idea of the SBD can be revisited once Steem is stable, but then the argument would be there's no need for SBD.

·

Yes at the early stage indeed. But eventually, there won't be a need. In 10 years when blockchains are more recognized, what would you say then?

·
·

Eventually sure. But this discussion makes it sound like Ned is thinking about removing SBD much sooner than a decade from now.

For now, here's my reservation with using STEEM as a currency: It's hard enough to get people --even bitcoiners-- to use BTC in commerce, let alone newer blockchain tokens.

·
·
·

People complain about the volatility only when the price goes down, the steem price is more likely to go up than down!

·
·
·

LOL true dat! But Ned was saying things are open for the community to change, since the interviewer said so many token was confusing. Ned wasn't saying to do it now, at least from what I understood. It's an option. I just ran with it and took it to the community to see what people where thinking. I never though it would be this popular with over 200 comments... really surprised me. I figured maybe 30 comments... lol

·
·
·
·

It seems to me this is a sooner rather than later thing on Ned's mind. In my mind it would be a much later, maybe never change.

·

That post should be taken with a grain of salt - much has been learned and has changed since that post. Part of that is Steem is better desinged as the global currency

And to amend that post, the big goals are really three fold:
1/ grow the greatest social network possible
2/ grow a censorship resistant content network for the entire internet
3/ bootstrap a fervently supported digital currency

·
·

I worry that without SBD 3/ will be may be impacted when trying to convince merchants to price and sell goods in an unfamiliar currency. In some ways SBD is a simplification for these users and I wonder if it will become more difficult to onboard merchants if they have the additional worry of price fluctuations. That being said SBD does not come for free and it is hard to predict if the adoption benefits outweigh the systemic costs and risks.

·
·
·

In some ways SBD is a simplification for these users and I wonder if it will become more difficult to onboard merchants if they have the additional worry of price fluctuations.

This is exactly right. And I think this is one of the advantages that STEEM/SBDs have over BTC as a crypto that can actually be used as a currency instead of just a buy-and-hold investment strategy.

·
·
·

You can buy almost anything on openbazaar with steem.

·
·

A U.S. dollar pegged token was chosen because of the relative stability of the dollar and the familiarity that many people, not just Americans, have with it. A typical person that is used to a dollar or a euro or a pound is going to have more difficulty with a token such as STEEM as a currency because of its fluctuating value.

I understand the position of seeing SBD backing as a risk, but it's a risk worth taking for the benefits of broader adoption. The risk could be mitigated in some ways, such as reducing how much SBD is paid out, less so than now even. The idea of witnesses using enough of a bias to incentivize conversion is another method of deflating the SBD burden.

·
·
·

I wasn't bringing up anything about SBDs risk profile. Steem is the better currency to couple with mass adoption

·
·
·
·

Steem is the better currency to couple with mass adoption

As a businessman who has worked with many other business people in my life, I can tell you that a volatile currency is not the "better" currency for mass adoption - if your goal is to have this currency actually adopted as a currency. A peg to a native currency (and let's face it - there likely aren't going to be many crypto-only businesses any time in the near future) allows normal business owners to onboard with STEEM/SBDs for their goods/services without the need to monitor fluctuating prices of both STEEM and BTC, relative to their native currency.

So, if the idea is to get people to actually spend and receive STEEM/SBDs as payment, then having that SBD-Dollar peg will be much more attractive for those individuals.

STEEM may be better for mass adoption for the social media and investing part of the equation, but SBDs are better for mass adoption for the actual use of the currency as a payment option.

·
·
·
·
·

When I think of a peg, I think of Argentina, or Greece. Are there examples of successful pegs?

·
·
·
·
·

Nothing Tether or another pegged digital asset cant do if that's what you truly believe.

Steem is the better community vehicle ---- and overtime with increased liquidity it's good for payments. Case in point, I personally use bitcoin often for payments (because of its liquidity and contractors willingness to accept).

·
·
·
·
·

I agree with @ats-david on this point. Much easier to do the books and price things, making it easier to adopt. Easier to explain to noobs and merchants too. Stability in a token is a great benefit and selling point as well.

I like it a lot and think it helps steemit s a whole. I'm not sure why we're even discussing removing it. Why is SBD in the whitepaper to begin with? There must have been some benefit behind it and how has that changed today? Is it a liability in some way and, if so, to whom?

·
·
·
·

I still think the stability and intuitive familiarity of the U.S. dollar makes the SBD worth keeping. Increasing the value of STEEM as a token is very important. But if it's the only token to be used by the everyday people that Steem is meant to engage, I think it could be an obstacle to the wide adoption that is hoped for.

Furthermore I think SBD is an excellent token because of the fast blockchain it's running on. As long as it holds its value to within a few % of the dollar, it has the chance to become a de facto USD-pegged token because of its speed and user-facing simplicity. I hear what you're saying about complexity but so far it's been a complexity that's been manageable.

What does Dan think about the future of the SBD?

·
·
·
·
·

The facts ---

SBD increases STEEM volatility, which is bad for currency adoption

SBD creates systemic risk

SBD means a multi token system

We cannot say "Steem, yeah, there' should just one token"

Some are arguing SBD has some untapped value on the road to STEEM becoming a currency. I don't wholly disagree.

Dan and I uncover things until we feel we have the truth. Steem is the currency of the future.

We agree it's best to put the conversation to the community before supporting one way or the other what we think about the future of SBD, which does not need to be a binary position, it can live on, live on with a reduced role, or be retired. No decision need be made overnight.

·
·
·
·
·

Replying here because of nesting limit.

I acknowledge that SBD comes with risks. Bittrex and Poloniex using hot active keys on accounts that hold millions of STEEM is also a great risk, but it's one that has been tolerated so far. Furthermore, SBD risk mitigation has been baked into Steem.

I'd say SBD has been a selling point, driving some investment in the idea of Steem in general, and in Steem Power. At least it was for me.

It's hard enough to get people --even bitcoiners-- to use BTC in commerce, let alone newer blockchain tokens. SBDs are much more familiar units of trade than a STEEM token to any American and probably Europeans who use units of similar value. Using STEEM will add complexity to the user experience because if they want to transact, they'll have to first convert the value of STEEM to a value they're more familiar with. SBD jumps that hurdle.

·
·
·
·
·

Just want to respond to @pfunk -

I'd say SBD has been a selling point, driving some investment in the idea of Steem in general, and in Steem Power. At least it was for me.

If there were no SBD option, I would have been cashing out all of my STEEM rewards as I got them - or whatever was left over after powering some of it up. So, the choice will come down to this for many users, especially those running businesses: Power up your STEEM, or sell it (relatively quickly) on an exchange. Holding the STEEM can really screw up your accounting if the price is constantly fluctuating by relatively large percentages, as cryptos often do.

The other option would be: Don't accept STEEM as payment.

Businesses need a reliable/stable pricing and payment system. You might find a few who are willing to dabble in crypto markets, but you won't get the widespread adoption.

·
·
·
·
·

Pros -----
SBD can lure none crypto ordinary ppl into steemit system.
Cons -----
SBD incur volatility on Steem.
SBD put downward pressure on steem Price.

I don't see anyone came to steemit system because of SBD, do u know any pfunk?

·
·
·
·
·

In response to @publicworker. Yes I do. Many people came to Steemit because they were able to earn "dollars." I'm sure there would be less adoption if so many people outside the crypto space would come and see you could earn something that you've never heard of called "STEEM" and its worth 13 cents but was worth 20 cents a bit ago and 4 dollars some months ago. And if they don't cash out right away, they may end up only getting 10 cents or maybe get lucky and get 20 cents because of a market upswing. This makes no sense to someone who doesn't understand a currency token with a quickly fluctuating value because they've used dollars all of their life.

I invested in Steem Power and then later in mining and then later as a witness because I believe in Steem's ability to draw in new users that wouldn't otherwise touch a cryptocurrency. To remove SBD would be counterproductive towards that goal.

·
·
·
·
·

Because they didn't cash out immediately, Steem's debt ratio intensified.
They could have changed their steem to btc if they want more stability. SBD has little or no benefit but cost is too high.

·
·
·
·
·

@ned - replying here because of nesting limits.

The facts ---
SBD increases STEEM volatility, which is bad for currency adoption

How does SBD increase STEEM volatility? Wouldn't more STEEM in the market increase volatility and drive the price down further?

SBD creates systemic risk

How? If someone could explain these first two questions like I was a 6-year old, I might understand why we're even having this discussion about removing SBD from the system. I think I'm missing something here.

SBD means a multi token system

Even if only Steem existed, it's still a multi-token system from a practical standpoint. I can't spend Steem. I first have to exchange it for BTC then to fiat to buy most things.

·
·
·
·

A price stable cryptocurrency may be important at some point. I think it can be introduced again later, once there is more demand. In the short term, we haven't really needed either SP or SBD, and we now have an actual currency in STEEM. Let's focus on building up STEEM and taking on Bitcoin. If those other pieces serve a need later, they can be brought in again.

·
·
·

When I read this post earlier I felt that the right option is to keep the SBD but I think I have changed my mind. Why keep a financial instrument that creates debt on the system?.
The argument that people are familiar with value of the US Dllr I don't think is enough. A simple solution to that would be to have a feed that displays the value in USD in the wallet (much like today). Same goes for the payout of the posts.

·
·
·

To steem, SBD is a like crutches, a wheelchair, or bicycle training wheels.. it's time to move on witout it

·
·
·
·

Maybe eventually, but it is very premature to do so now.

·
·
·
·

Steem is 0 years old and it's time to take off the training wheels already?

·

I agree @pfunk for all the reasons you're discussing. It also makes it very easy to explain to my friends and they like having SBD's.

Before doing away with something in a system we should ask ourselves:
Why was SBD created in the first place? Why are the reasons for its existence any different today then they were when it was first implemented?

·
·

In part the reasons are different, and I think Ned covered that in the interview. Previously STEEM as hyperinflationary so it wasn’t reasonable to hold it as a currency. SP obviously can’t be used as a currency because it is locked. So SBD was needed to fill that gap. Now that STEEM is no longer hyperinflationary the gap is not as large. I still think SBD has value, but the need is indeed reduced.

·
·
·

Thank you. I have just spend hours posting on various comments related to this to get the answer I was finally looking for. Thanks for getting right to the point so simply.

I wouldn't hold Steem (other than Steem Power) as a currency though, would you? It's too volatile to hold.

Sell it or power up is all most people would do, right? If too many sell, the price drops, if too many power up, the price rises. Removing SBD would mean there's no place to hold Steem except to power up, the rest would be sold. Who and what benfits from that?

Steem is rather famous for the amount of people it got involved in crypto, who have never thought about it until now. SBD is one of the easiest things newcomers relate to, it's easy to understand what its value is and it's also stable.
SBD is also the main coin that can be used in eCommerce as it provides value stability. I don't think giving up on it would be the best idea.

Why not working on clear messages (marketing materials, videos, tutorials, etc.) that make anyone understand the entire ecosystem better, in layman terms? Wouldn't that be more advantageous in the long run?

·

There is a huge amount of simplification that can occur having nothing whatsoever to do with SBD. The question during the interview had to do with the whitepaper which takes 40+ pages to explain what I'm pretty sure I could explain in five pages or less, probably 2-3 pages.

·
·

you know, I actually started on a simplified version of the WP a couple months ago as I also think it's an overkill, and should be kept under 5 pages overall. Maybe I should restart that initiative as I also wanted to focus on a couple more marketing materials to support telling others about Steem. Thanks!

·
·
·

Also important because in addition to being horrifically over-complicated, the white paper is terribly out of date with how the system actually works now, which leads to even more confusion and frustration for people trying to learn about and understand Steem.

·
·
·
·

I tried selling steemit.com to friends. I had been able to tell them how much I was making monthly, but that is gone now. It used to be that voting would render a constant stream of income with said initial investment, but as you said, it doesn't work that way any longer.

In order to make the same as I made in November, I would have to put up another $100k, and I don't even like have that much in one wallet unless it's a secured, off-line, paper wallet. Less likely to have in on one steemit account.

·
·

wht are you waiting for ? explainnnnnn!

The main barrier for new ones is not the steem, the SBD or the SP but the lack of diversity in Trending: always the same people and the same subjects (sports, steemit, etc ...) Non- Crypto do not see their place in such a social network! Maybe some changes in the voting system?

·

@whatsup would agree with you as well, as do I with a lot of the trending content.

·

Agreed. We need more responsible curators. I expect the curation guilds to be a great help with this.

·
·

lately I started wandering... what if incentives for voting would be removed?

Why facebook, reddit can do it without giving money?

Problem of voting bots would be mostly solved, and only stuff which is really important for people would be voted.

·
·
·

Right now curation rewards is the only incentive to hold long term. If we didn't have that I wouldn't have much faith in steems survival. I'm hoping there will be more incentives to power up (gamification maybe), but I also see curation being a really valuable role in making this the greatest social media platform alive. If people are rewarded for GOOD curation, I imagine there will some day be professional curators who started their career through steem! It will take time and the guilds are necessary for that to become reality.

·
·
·
·

You actually didn't answer my question :P Why facebook or reddit didn't have to pay for people votes? IMO this is because people just like to vote, when something is worth the effort.

Right now on steemit most of articles always has more votes than visits - conclusion is simple - autoupvoting has really nothing in common with good curation.

People are smart, because we can learn from mistakes. How often people revisits their steemvoter settings? If they don't, they actually decreasing quality. And right now there is incentive to vote for anything if you do not know what is worth of your vote.

·
·
·
·
·

The reason other sm platforms don't pay people to vote is because they prefer to use an algorithm to do their curating for them. Our likes and shares are only a small part of their algorithm. They don't care what we like or want to see. They care about what their stake holders want us to see.

An algorithm is cost effective but it's centralised and censored so we don't even always know what an algorithm is propagating or censoring.

Auto voting isn't always bad. A curator can decide this author should always get my vote without me always reading. But a responsible curator would regularly check and update their auto vote list, and be available to remove their vote on call in important circumstances.

Those with the most stake need to be the most responsible and careful.

·

I think SBD is a good incentive for a new user: the SBD = ~ 1USD is a known reference, but a SB at 0.13 is less attractive.

·
·

SBD was never valued so little:

latelly it is very stable around ~$1

·
·
·

The steemdollar varied between 1.30 and .75 USD and now ~ 1 USD. However the steem rose from .18 to +3.00 and now to 0.13.

·
·
·
·

ok... now I get it from where you took this 0.13. On daily basis I track only market cap, which is better indicator for me, because I am SP holder

·
·
·
·
·

On the internal market, Bittrex and Poloniex

Better when traders have more options no?

I'd prefer to keep them all, continuing with the choice of how we'd like to receive the rewards. The way the choice is offered could solve the problem for newbies... (like having advanced settings but having the default be only SP and STEEM.)

·

I think the default should be SP and SBD, as Steem Dollars are both more stable and easier to understand for noobs. It is only those of us who are here long enough to know the value of steem who would want to choose to be paid in Steem.

·
·

That would work ok for the default too.

Actually, SBD makes things more simple. It lets you ignore the fluctuations, even when they're downwards, except for certain limits like when there's a currency crisis.

Say a user earns $50 SBD two months ago and the price of STEEM drops 50%. Then they remember they had that $50 and they convert it to STEEM. Unlike other cryptocurrencies, the $50 they forgot about will still be $50 by the time they remember (for better or worse).

I think, if we want to make it even more simple, we could let users set up their own policy, then give them a default policy. The default policy is how it works right now. If a user wants, they can set up an additional policy that will, say, automatically convert SBD to STEEM under certain conditions.

·

Simple yes, it reflects dollars directly. Then you exchange for that amount of BTC. Or, you exchange STEEM for BTC, same things, it's just STEEM doesnt show US dollar value automatically. That's the major attractor for the SBD. The benefit of STEEM is that if the price does go up, then you can sell for more, while SBD holding give you nothing.

·
·

So, I get what @ned is saying. The community could decide that SBD is no longer needed since STEEM has less dilution than it did. The flexibility of the platform allows for this kind of agility. And historically, we've only seen STEEM fall in value, so SBD was critical for casual content creators. In that context, no one could argue against its utility.

But ultimately, I'd like to see SBD stick around as a speculative instrument for both long and short term uses.

·
·
·

The way I look at it nobody is looking at the long-term. Ok, so SBD might delute the value of Steem in general ,but someday that won't be the case so we'll yank away the one thing that non-crypto users could make sense of , all because we are here for the money I guess ??

·
·
·
·

That's rather simplistic of an argument to make that it's "all about the money", which can simply be thrown back to the SBD supporting as wanting the monetary transfer simplicity, so it's all about the money there as well. When looking at other currencies, 1$CAD is not 1$USD, nor is 1Pound. 1 STEEM is different too. Conversions can be looked at in terms of another currency, which is what people do to make everything weighed on the same scale. So you can covert STEEM, to any currency value representation, like USD, and have that value represented, rather than another token valued at a near $1 value... the extra bit of another token just to have a direct constant value... is for simple thinking. Currencies int he world don;t work like that, they fluctuate, which is what STEEM does. SBD does not really (yes minor changes to try to stabilize it), it stays pegged to the US dollar.

·
·

There is no reason that SBD couldn't be exchanged directly with USD (or EUR other relatively stable fiat) and paid directly to a bank account. There just don't happen to be exchanges offering that service right now, but it is inevitable if the platform were to grow enough that would happen. In fact some exchanges were already considering it months ago but have apparently backed away as Steem as a whole has cratered.

I like the SDB because:

  • I can make steem purchases on the internal market
  • I can transfer sums to people with a rate ~ 1: 1 without being on the steem variations on the market
·

Same here. It seems like there's more benefits than negatives.

In my opinion, the complexity is percieved by new users because they are presented with 3 currencies/investment vehicles.
If they didn't have to care about anything but Steem (Backed) Dollars initially they would feel safer, but then again we can't really get rid of the Steem and Steem Power now can we... =D

For now, I think the verdict is we should keep the Steem Dollars.

·

Yup probably.

·
·

I'd very much like to hear your take and others as well, on my question asked as a reply to smooth.

·

SP doesn't need to be considered a separate currency. That was probably a mistake. It could be just the same STEEM currency in a sort of savings account with restrictions on how fast you can withdraw it. That would be a nice simplification.

·
·

Agreed.

Also, I'd like to know what you think about economically encouraging use of steem rather than steem backed dollars, by use of a fee applied to newbs sticking with a default setting of being paid in SBD? Would there in your opinion be any clear benefits or problems with that?

From the psychological rather than economic perspective, the confusion might be greater if they figure it out and start to think about it I guess. But for the sort of people who don't even consider such things it wouldn't change the actual perception.

·
·
·

I don't agree with the view that has been expressed here that you can significantly encourage the use of STEEM by discouraging SBD. People are uncomfortable with highly volatile cryptos. This is nothing new and is a problem that has confronted efforts to achieve wider crypto adoption and use by every project, and would apply equally to this one. As an alternative to SBD, people will just sell their STEEM faster, or be discouraged by having taken some big unwanted, unexpected, and not-entirely-understood losses and quit. The idea that "the problem with STEEM" is SBD is largely nonsensical. There is a small grain of truth to it in the sense of systemic risk, especially if SBD is not properly managed by witnesses, which unfortunately has often been the case (with some contribution by poor and/or absent guidance from the dev team).

·
·
·
·

Thank you for answering

·
·
·

Nah, no fee. The economic encouragement is the success of Steemit/Steem to raise STEEM and get in on that train ;) lol

·
·
·
·

haha allrighty then ;)

One consequence of this which I think is undeniable:

If there is no SBD, then only speculators will hold their money on the Steem Network. Everyone unwilling to hold speculative tokens (Steem and Steem Power, neither have much practical utility today but may have some in the future) will be forced to exit their payouts immediately for short term stable currencies such as the USD.

Also, for how long are we going to keep radically changing the economics of the Steem ecosystem? How can we possibly expect businesses to build up around Steem if the ground keeps moving underneath them?

·

I certainly expect radical changes continue for years, but I get what you're saying. We need a level of stability and SBD gives us that.

My opinion is that Steam Dollars gives the non average trader a currency that he can speculate the price with no issues. I can't tell what would be the best. I think what we have is unique even though complex. This is going to be an interesting topic.

·

Exactly. I see it as a gateway cryptocurrency. That's exactly what we need if we're trying to onboard non-crypto-heads

Simple. Get rid of Steem Dollars. It's too complex for noobs.

·

I think it's more confusing without steem dollars. Steem Dollars is like a gateway cryptocurrency. The value is always clear. Steem is becoming more and more liquid with the new economics. For non-cryptos, this is scary. Why would anybody hold money that changes value so often?? That sounds like gambling.

·

I tend to agree with this. I think people are confused by this and that is a barrier to entry

·
·

Confusion doesn't help but I think the worst problem with SD is that it makes Steem less desirable and reduces demand. Since it doesn't really go down in value people can hang on to it for long periods of time in the hope that the Steem price will go lower and they can buy back more. By reducing demand for the real currency it hurts us all.

Keep the SBD!


Don`t change the system, it just starting to become good!

·

True. I think SBD will get even more useful. We'll see.

·

Yeah keep the STEEM Dollar! it's so confusing to find the value of Bitcoin but with Steem Dollar it's different! in way if STEEM Drops i prefer to hold STEEM Dollar ! then exchanging it to Bitcoin!

Keep SBD. The more complex, the better in the long run.
If it's too easy than everyone would be doing it. - @bola

We need to have an easy method of converting SBD to and from STEEM. Click of a button type of deal.

·

Converting and trading are 2 very different things so I'm unsure which you're talking about. There are is a button to convert but it takes 3 days and there is an internal market for trading - this could maybe be made easier to use as most exchanges are unnecessarily hard to look at. I would love to see a much simpler way to just sell for a bid and have it done without having to look at all that indigestible data.

·
·

I would love to see a much simpler way to just sell for a bid and have it done without having to look at all that indigestible data.

Agree with you. I have suggested a shapeshift-like UI where you put in an amount, it gives you a price (for modest amounts this will be very near the market midprice), and you click "Trade".

·

I really like the internal market. First, I learned to trade. At times, I achieved excellent markup (50%) ... on small amounts. I always keep a certain amount in SB and SBD to take advantage of fluctuations.

Well, as I commented on my ONE and ONLY blog post ...

https://steemit.com/money/@brains/when-the-banks-stopped-paying-interest

I am leaving - me and my $15k, as I used to make 750SP per month and now I get 60SP per month - same voting effort, same SP - my first payment to exit Steemit comes tomorrow. Now that Ned has made this huge, scorched earth, pendulum swing to "not worth it", the price is still tanking.

What next? Steemit is a fish on the dock.

And to answer... SBD went from paying 15% to 9% and today I looked to see it pays 8% to have it in savings -yet I put a bitcons in savings almost a month ago and have yet to see one interest payment. You can bet I will be leaving with that too. What a waste of time and money.

·

You need to send SBD to another account to receive your interest. Just send the lowest amount to any account. You need to do this every 30 days but you will receive all that your haven't received and that are due to you.

·
·

If this is true, it should be made clear on the SBD wallet page. How are users supposed to know that...

·
·
·

I just requested it to github. It should be at least displayed prominently somewhere.

·
·

Thanks for that. It worked here, but my other account didn't get paid interest after I sent myself a payment to trigger the unspoken interest rule. I agree with @someonewhoisme that it should say on the wallet page.

·