Lessons from the Libertarian In-fighting
Two and half years ago I was sitting with a friend of mine in a roof-top terrace in Rio while she was telling me about her new start-up that was about to be launched.
As most start-ups go, it all starts with personal dreams about effecting positive change in the world. While many of those plans and dreams may never get the chance to take off, Susanne’s dream did.
You see, Susanne is a go-getter. Wherever she sets her mind, her feet are usually not too far away. Even if it’s in war-zones.
Seriously, war-zones.
A few months later, that company she told me about was already taking shape.
In short, Bitnation was a proposed solution to a precise problem. An attempt to replace the current authoritarian system with a new model where all transactions are open-source and registered on the blockchain.
Would that work?
I didn’t even think about asking that question to be honest.
To me success is never guaranteed, so instead of dwelling over functionality, we just kept discussing the idea, the plans, and how certain elements would be executed.
It all seemed fascinating that I just kept asking about smart contracts.
Before long, their plans were in fact executed as we’ve seen the first marriage to ever be recorded on the blockchain.
The Do Something Principal
Instead of (or on addition to) complaining about the current system, some people attempt to create new systems that improve on the old ones, or even make them obsolete.
Personally, I love those people, whether they fail or succeed.
But back to the first conversation. There was a moment where Susanne asked me a question I had no answer to.
“So what do you think about all this Libertarian in-fighting going on lately?”
I didn’t have an answer, or maybe I didn’t want to spend a single second thinking about it.
I said that that it was sad, and quickly changed the subject and tried not to think about it anymore.
Until a few weeks later when she was at the Max Keiser show in RT, and Max said something that made me reflect for long time, that sometimes it seems that if you were to put Libertarians on an island, that it could turn to a Lord of the Flies scenario.
Then it dawned on me.
You see, a few years ago, mainly due to the Ron Paul phenomenon and other factors, many people started gravitating towards a more Libertarian philosophy than ever before.
With such growth, a whole new world of conversations started to emerge. Conversation such as: How would this work? Or how would that fit with the non-aggression principal?...Etc.
There seemed to be no shortage of interesting conversations to go around.
But also there seemed to be no shortage of blame to go around.
At first the blame was mostly directed towards politicians that were mainly seen as a “parasite class” that without having any experience in managing companies, running businesses, building capital nor creating job opportunities… You'll always find them telling people what to do.
And more importantly, they will always, always try to engage in some witch-hunt activity to get everyone at everyone’s throat.
It usually goes down like this:
First they start directing the pitchfork towards an outsider enemy, and when everyone is on a witch-hunting mode, they quickly turn the focus to all sorts of "inner enemies" to finally get everyone fighting with each other.
But here’s the problem, it is estimated that 4% of the population are sociopaths and as the Libertarian community grew, sociopaths naturally started gravitating there as well.
Not because their deep love for freedom, but because they are merchants of hate. They saw a common enemy to direct pitchfork towards, in this case it was “the statists”.
And from there, things went down faster than a one-legged man in butt-kicking competition.
That’s what happens when you take the complaining and blame route, there is no other way to go but down.
Then you know how it goes, when everyone was on a witch-hunting mode, the pitchforks went from an outsider enemy to an “inner enemy”.
The In-fighting Has Began.
"When the devil asks you to dance you better say never, because a dance with the devil might last you forever" ― Immortal Technique.
... To Be Continued.
Yeah I felt sorry for the way Sussane got raked through the coals when she first launched the crowdfunding round. She did not have a trusted way to collect funds (a multi sig wallet) and some lawyer really attacked her for it on 'Let's Talk Bitcoin' for that fact. So right out of the box she was slammed and really accused of being dishonest. All for something that at the time she clearly did not understand was demanded by crypto investors. So there was that, then there are libertarians that simply do not want identity and reputation on a blockchain. So these people attacked her. Than there is a certain amount of competition too. People criticize eachother's projects instead of working together like Peter Thiel advocates in 'Zero to One'.
Yeah I remember, there was even a group of people that was very angry. She's doing fine now, they raised the funds, hope they help people.
I always hope for projects like that to succeed.
And you're right, many libertarians didn't want their identities on the blockchain. In fact I know several that were totally against bitcoin for a while.
I totally agree, a better use of time would be to work together, there's always work to be done.
And now I'm gonna by a book from Amazon ;) Thanks for the reminder, I haven't read it yet.
This post has been ranked within the top 50 most undervalued posts in the second half of Feb 02. We estimate that this post is undervalued by $9.91 as compared to a scenario in which every voter had an equal say.
See the full rankings and details in The Daily Tribune: Feb 02 - Part II. You can also read about some of our methodology, data analysis and technical details in our initial post.
If you are the author and would prefer not to receive these comments, simply reply "Stop" to this comment.
Sociopaths are also really good at acquiring power and rising through the ranks simply due to their willingness to volunteer for positions when others would rather do something else if they can get someone else to volunteer to attend meetings, etc.
@dwinblood I never heard of that and I would love to hear more about it if you have any stuff you think I should look at.
As far as I've seen, sociopaths never do actual work, they just theorize about how other should work, who is earning more... Etc.
Honestly, I can't see them volunteer for everything. Their extreme laziness is strictly correlated to their relentlessness on focusing on what other people are doing.
As I said, would love to see or read some stuff if you have something interesting you wanna share.
It is a pet hypothesis/theory of mine:
We come up with great ideologies that seem great on paper or our own minds. Yet somehow once it is in the wild and applied to all humans invariably corruption occurs.
My observations make me currently believe this is true of religions, governments, corporations, etc.
These things can often be quite good and represent the actual initial vision for awhile, but it seems ultimately they are all corrupted.
My theory is that those who WANT power, are typically not the type that should HAVE power. Yet the people that would be good with the power likely have other things they'd like to be working on, so they won't volunteer to attend more meetings, do paperwork they don't have to, etc unless it is purely by necessity.
This kind of creates a void of opportunity. If someone seeking power realizes it they can volunteer.
Each such position can be a stepping stone to fill voids higher within the hierarchy.
So by this my theory is that such power seekers will naturally tend to bubble/rise/percolate towards the top of organizations.
This also can lead to corruption.
So your sociopath idea is not one I've used before, but by nature many of these people would be sociopaths. Seeking power does not mean you have any interest in actually improving things for other people. Sociopaths do not have to be stupid either, in fact they can be intelligent and focused.
Anyway, I've not seen anyone else really talk about this somewhere I can refer you. It is something I've thought about.
It was me wondering why great companies with very humanitarian goals seem to eventually all veer away from that over time. Same with governments, and pretty much any organization.
At the moment... this is my leading contender for what I think is going on.
A lot of interesting points.
To me power, like money and other things are just smoke screen.
It's not the object itself, but sociopaths escalate, that's something that has to do with their criminal personality and not the object.
Even serial killer and other predatory types of personality escalates.
In this case, it's not the power that corrupt, they were always gonna do the same.
However, I don't like hierarchies of course. :)
I came up with this hypothesis years ago. I've kind of kept it in my mind when I am watching political and corporate activites.
It is likely flawed, but I do think there may be something to it.
When I say POWER. I am referring to influence and manipulation of others. Some people have a taste for that.
Whether it is money, or some other mechanism I thought I should define POWER for you in the context I use it within that hypothesis.
Ah ok, I actually though it you meant a rank in a company. Thanks for clarifying that.
Yeah, definitely some people have a taste for that.
I hope this not a roundabout way of calling me a sociopathic with hunter, after I opted out of the Guild, and did so without attacks, threats, or anything of the kind, and simply aired my doubts as to whether or not it's good for the community in the long run. Nothing personal was ever suggested, and won't be.
It was simply me caring about the long term health of the platform.
This wasn't meant at you at all. Why would I? None of your actions were sociopathic, or personally motivated nor you tried to rile up people against people who are working.
Sorry you feel that way, but no, not at all.
I think you tried to do what you thought best at your opinion maybe got influenced by the heatwave. What you saw as war between two ferocious sides, one day when calm you will see one sided attacks, threats, and blackmail attempts, tons of lies on top of that.
I never answered inslut by inslut, nor downvote by downvote. Just turned the other cheek.
But if it appeared as a war, then you should write how you perceive things. I can't possibly judge you for that, and don't worry. This is not about you at all.
This is right on point. Lots of strong opinions and a natural aversion to authority, plus a fair share of nuts. It's a difficult crowd to unify. Getting things done is not easy. But if the ideology were presented more effectively, one would think it could appeal to a broad spectrum of people who are constantly brainwashed to think think that they have to adopt one of the other ideologies that the corporate parties spew out.
"Getting things done is not easy" actually I wonder if it was ever the point :P
Jokes aside, there are some who try to get stuff done, I always felt sorry about personal attacks.
And you're right, it has to appeal to a wider spectrum, that's for sure. Like everything else.
Libertarian in-fighting is par for the course. Here in Louisiana, it is the same. I haven't noticed anything that rises to the level of sociopathic yet. Good article!
That's good, there isn't anything bad in Louisiana.
I meant certain times a few years back where the 'celebritarian' in-fighting was trendy.
Thanks man!
Your welcome
What is a libertarian?
The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their proper names, Confucius.
That's true. The word has lost its meaning the last year and half, many libertarians have turned Alt right, extreme right, or straight up neo-cons.
The left-right paradigm is now trendy as opposed to the past.
Yes but they still call themselves libertarians.
Well people can call themselves whatever they want of course.
But It brings lot's of confusion.
Some people in the left-right paradigm are even calling themselves an-cap or voluntaryist. I mean where does it stop.
Totally, it's so confusing at times. But it's only in the last months, I don't remember that at this magnitude a few years back.
Abuse is happening folks...
Courtesy of your friends at the #steemguild and @the-alien
Learn more
Flagged for dangerous accusation of abuse.
Hey Look, it's jealousy and in-fighting on a post about in-fighting! (voting my own comment up 100%)
Care to address the self-voting issue coming from the #steemguild @the-alien?
People who are interested in a subject ask questions first, not throw false and dangerous accusations and ask later.
But nice try! ;)
Like when you said that JRcornel pays himself for promoting steemit on the chat.
I know it's false, you know it's false, everyone knows it's false. Yet you threw dangerous accusations knowing they're false.
You will be muted because trolls, witch-hunters and sociopaths are three major waists of time. You say you're neither?
Maybe you're right, maybe you're neither. But your actions say otherwise, so you will be muted until further example of the contrary.
To be fair, this has been attempted and the concerns have been publicly made. What many people are still waiting on is an appropriate response and an actual reconsideration or end to the self-voting at 100% of the guild's power - a guild that was created to actually help struggling users, not those who receive plenty of attention and votes already.
Whether it's called "abuse" or not depends on who you are, obviously. But given the guild's stated purpose, the percentage of voting power used by it on everyone else, and the self-votes given to its "staff," there are legitimate concerns about its actual effects. And being completely dismissive about these concerns isn't exactly going to resolve them or inspire confidence in anyone who's asking questions that there's really nothing to be concerned about.
Some valid points, but in many instances the parties asking the questions don't really seem to want an answer, simply to push their own agenda...
Numerous answers have been given on this matter in a number of forums but the incitement continues.
Isn't it amazing how trolls on steemit often disguise themselves as "defenders of the rewards pool".
How is the "community" supposed to take someone that claims to have the long-term growth of steemit at heart (@mynameisbrian), that is powering down?
Finally a civil discussion, please allow me to respond in kind.
1st. Whales and founders powering down is a good thing as it helps to correct the drastic imbalances in STEEM power. Minnows powering down on the other hand cannot be viewed in the same light... especially if they expect to have a say over how the rewards system is utilized, since it is a vest dominated process. Simply put, if you diminish your own STEEM power you extinguish your own voice.
2nd. "honest criticism or concern" is generally framed better.
If the responses "just don't sit well "... the parties cannot continue to claim that no responses were given.
You operate in a guild yourself you know how things work.
The whales that provide the power determine the parameters under which the guild operates... its their power and their rules. Please see my posts linked below.
3rd. I can't say much on chats, in my experience they often exude the odor of a cesspool and differences escalate quickly.
I put up two posts hoping for open and honest discussion. I don't know if you saw them?
https://steemit.com/stats/@gavvet/draining-the-rewards-pool-the-numbers
https://steemit.com/stats/@gavvet/draining-the-rewards-pool-part-2-some-clarification
@gavvet
Well, first - I would argue that powering down doesn't necessarily mean that someone doesn't care about the platform...unless you think that most of the whales and even the founders themselves don't care, since they've powered down in the past and some still are now. So, I really don't think that's a fair argument.
Second - asking questions about guild operations isn't "incitement." What may seem like attacks to you may simply be an honest criticism or concern by other users. And honestly, the answers that have been given about some of those concerns - even if you feel like they were great responses - just don't sit well with the concerned users. There are legitimate questions, but it's hard to have a discussion when the people responding immediately start accusing others of "jealousy," "witch-hunting," and "in-fighting."
Seriously...how many times are we going to go down this road? Nearly every time a concern is raised, the first usual response is: "You're just jealous!" or "WITCH-HUNTERS!"
Then, we usually find out later that there really was an issue or that the concerns were valid and the issue was later corrected because someone actually voiced their concerns in a public forum. But the first people to come out are usually vilified for it...and later never apologized to for being shouted down and called names. Why can't we have a civil discussion?
Third - I can understand the frustration of users like @mynameisbrian. I was part of one of the recent chats where this stuff was brought up and discussed. It turned negative pretty quickly because two of the users simply wanted to attack each other. But ultimately, the questions weren't really answered, the concerns were dismissed, and everyone left frustrated. And to this point right now, nobody wants to take the concerned parties seriously. So, yes - I completely understand Brian's frustration. Nobody from Steem Guild seems to be taking this seriously and what is being seen as an abuse continues every day.
So, if anyone would like to have an honest and open discussion without flagging each other or calling people names, then let's have it. But if the posts like this are going to continue and members of the guild are just going to vilify others as disruptive or toxic, then I don't see how that's going to convince anyone that something isn't wrong. You guys do understand how that looks, right?
That's not a valid argument. You don't know why they're powering down. And it also has no relevance to whether or not their concerns are legitimate and whether or not abuse is occurring. This argument is a red herring.
Well, in this case, either no responses were given to some of the questions/concerns or the answers simply did not address the actual concerns...they were just dismissive. Such as:
This is at the heart of the concerns about Steem Guild. "Their power, their rules" doesn't actually address the main concern about the guild's effects. And it certainly doesn't address the criticisms about self-voting with the guild's power - which, as I stated already, is supposed to be a guild for the express purpose of ensuring that certain users aren't being overlooked and unrewarded for their good content. But that's only one argument. There are many others. "Their power, their rules" doesn't cut it. That's not how you address issues with a project that was allegedly created for a specific purpose but seems to have several negative consequences/side-effects.
I actually don't operate in a guild. But yes, I do know how some of these things work - and based on what I'm seeing, there are many problems with the operations.
I did see them. However, I don't see the relevance to any of these discussions. I haven't seen anyone mentioning that there has been "draining of the rewards pool." I think the major point of contention (especially with Brian) was the self-voting of several personal accounts with 80-100% of the guild's power every day. That isn't necessarily a "draining the pool" argument.
But, since you've brought it up, do you not find an issue with two or three guild members regularly sitting in the top-five on the trending page nearly every day? Do you believe that this was the intent of the guild and that this is how it ought to be?
(I would love to not have this thread limit maxed, so if we can continue this on a new one, that would be great.)
Damn you #steemguild guys are so literal and have zero sense of humor.
But I guess that it is hard to laugh when the joke is pointing out your highly sketchy behavior.
I get it... You love your cash cow very much.
Sorry to rain on the parade.
Actually I found you comic very funny, inaccurate, but funny.
You had me laugh out loud first time I read it, but spamming it in many posts?
It's getting a bit old.