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RE: OCD's stance on cross-posting and news about empowering niche communities

in OCD3 years ago

This is a restrained policy compared to others. It stops the worst circlejerking and should at least help to get abusers out of the woodworks.

I'm only double-dipping cross-posting into my obscure communities using alts I made. I won't upvote these myself and I hope they don't get large upvotes.

I wish steem just allowed one to resteem into different communities. Hopefully this crpss-posting is a temporary measure. Also, I wish enablers like steempeak would have them created with rewards declined or set 100% to null.

The accounts this feature mostly appeals to are the same people who thought 10 tags wasn't enough and 20 tags of actifit were just okay.

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Fully agree with that:

I wish steem just allowed one to resteem into different communities. Hopefully this crpss-posting is a temporary measure. Also, I wish enablers like steempeak would have them created with rewards declined or set 100% to null.

and that:

You can also just copy and paste and post again. Cross-posting legitimizes double-dipping. It would be best to actually improve the post to get more rewards during the double-dip.

As much as I really like all the @Steempeak features and they are really doing a great job there, this one screams vote farming and spam.
What difference it makes if I go and copy my post from yesterday and post it again today in different community (besides that I will be reported and downvoted for it), or use @Steempeak to do it for me?

My suggestions would be to deny all the rewards (as mentioned above) on cross-posts and leave link to original post if someone likes it, they can vote on that.
Maybe limit the cross-post to few, or just one per week. That would make the cross-posting very selective.
Or if its possible to actually cross-post the original post to a new community without creating another post with the same content.

I see on my feed the same posts multiple times sometimes. All with upvotes....

Yup. This is bid-bots 2.0 - content recycling via cross-posting.
How do you think outsiders are going to view this? As a positive development? Or more BS like self-voting, vote trading and vote-buying/selling.

Hey, guess what? Steem didn't think that was enough so now they enable a feature to copy and paste another's post and get rewarded with a 5~10% cut depending if the person who does it owns the community or not...the best part, no consent required.

To the outsider that have never been or seen Steem before it might seem normal. That's how the place works, so be it.
But considering that for the past years copy-pasta was punished, recycling own posts and posting them again was punished as well, I just don't understand how cross-posting in current form is allowed. It allows you to use the same content and monetize it again. Even if I would not be allowed to cross-post mine, I can monetize someone else content for the second or third time. And even earn on it!

Wild thought...
Imagine 10-15 people creating few communities, posting once a day and crossing all each other posts on daily basis. I know this might be easy to spot and downvoted, but just imagine :D

Steem or Steempeak? I though on Steempeak has the button. That's why posts do show normally there and on Steemit and Busy feed it looks like link spam.

Steempeak has it.

I just think they are making quite the statement by enabling it after so long. I am actually tempted to remove my support from their proposal, but I will give them a few weeks to see how it goes.

About your community thought, I could totally see a crosspost circle vote community starting up. They would be able to get away with less effort on their low effort posts. Hopefully tools are made to detect this so others can react.

hasn't been used that way as of yet and we believe for many reasons it will be avoided by smart farmers because it's too high profile and too easy to find them. They have too many other methods to hide their farming. But if you see cases bring them to the attention to people

What people will do first is post their full post to multiple communities... they'll do that way before using cross-posting.

What people will do first is post their full post to multiple communities...

How is that possible? As far as I know we are only allowed to use one community tag as the first tag.

That would actually solve the problem of publishing the same content (cross-posting) multiple times.

Just copy paste the whole post and post it again to a new community. Cross-posts are more visual than that other method.

You are suggesting to post the same content multiple times? :)

If I remember correctly up until now all the copy pasted posts (copies of older posts, or posted few times) were considered abuse and reported. Those accounts were then downvoted and put in blacklists for spam/reward abuse.

And yet we haven't seen vote farming abuse... people can see them all here #cross-post. We would be happy to see any statistical analysis.

hasn't been used that way as of yet and we believe for many reasons it will be avoided by smart farmers because it's too high profile and too easy to find them. They have too many other methods to hide their farming. But if you see cases bring them to the attention to people

What people will do first is post their full post to multiple communities... they'll do that way before using cross-posting.

I also haven't noticed much abuse yet. I guess people know better as you thought they would.

Can you imagine what communities would look like, say with 20k subscribers and anyone allowed to resteem their stuff onto it, though? Cross-posting is a bit more serious than just a resteem as it can affect your reputation and other consequences if abused. It's all still experimental and fresh out of the oven of course, we're trying to make the best use for it to also empower users to become good curators that crosspost onto the right communities. I'm surprised no one has created a bot that notifies the original creator if posts have been cross-posted but I'm assuming Steempeak will add that as a feature at some point similar to how they let you know when someone resteems your post above the post.

Anyway, the no self cross-posting will mitigate a lot of abuse we think, let's see how others use this tool and if the pros outweigh the cons. Early usage of new features/possibilities most often is negative in this technology.

Just when I was thinking of cross-posting into OCD a guide I made a long time ago for the new users ;)

Are these rules for curation only or are they also for moderation? Because I don't mind if I don't get curated as long as I get to share my guide.

If the guide is still relevant then why not, but maybe ask someone else to cross-post it for you instead. :)

Good question though, I think for curation mainly but if it gets spammy we might have to use the mute future.

BTW, I have a semi-urgent request.

I don't know if you've noticed, but the third post on the front page is by an anti-vaxxer promoting that idea. I made a comment where I copied and pasted a bunch of data I curated that partially contradicts that narrative.

I think it's dangerous to leave the data on its own, unchallenged, so if you could check out my comment, and if you agree with what I've said, I would appreciate if you voted around 0.1 STU to take it to the top, above the other anti-vaxxers in their echo-chamber.

I would do it myself but my vote is worth only half of what's necessary.

I shared it further, maybe someone with the time can read it through properly and curate. :)

I actually just got a biggish curation vote from a likeminded person, so I don't think this will be necessary unless a little whale passes by and upvotes some more antivaxx in the comments section.

Thanks, though! Let's hope my comments help people find proper education instead of relying on myths and populism!

There would be a lot of resteeming. Perhaps it could be set to subject to mod approval if necessary based on posts or accounts. It could also be limited the same as cross-posting. You are right though as it does seem more serious and would require more community effort.

One can search for beneficiaries, but not on Steempeak. I bet that will change in their next update. If I find losers are re-posting my stuff I'll downvote it.

Sounds a bit harsh. xD

You will then have no choice but love my new spam bot that cross-posts acidyo posts with a delightful message =)

The account acidyocrosspost appears to be free.

I think ginabot notifies you. Also, of I'm remembering right steampeak does tell you when someone cross posts your post in their notification, or activity, section... I can't remember off the top of my head what it's called.

I could be wrong about steempeak though, it was 5 days ago when I last cross posted content and my memory is crap 😂

Oh and about the @null and @steem.dao option, I agree. Some times visibility is worth more than the rewards and if some crossposters feel the original post already earned a good amount but sharing it to the right community is important having the option to set the 90% or even the 5% they get to steem.dao or null would be important, or be able to adjust how much of the rewards go there.

Maybe the crosspost feature can be enhanced. It would be easy to make a similar feature but setting beneficiaries to @null and/or @steem.dao

I like visibility, but I would prefer a link to my post and a short summary. Taking away 10% (5community 5 crossposter) without any consent for clicking a button feels wrong.

However, I guess there is so much crap being posted, finding a post and clicking cross-post would easily be 10% of the work that goes into a typical post for a lot of posters (won't name them, but I'm sure you have an idea) especially if they gasp add an entire sentence.

Hopefully this crpss-posting is a temporary measure.

Remember that posts lose votability after 7 days. So unless that changes, resteeming into communities would lose authors the renewed votability of their old posts.

The alternative is to lengthen the votability to infinity and allow various payout cycles. But I'm not very sure if this is even viable.

You can also just copy and paste and post again. Cross-posting legitimizes double-dipping. It would be best to actually improve the post to get more rewards during the double-dip.

Alternatively if you read an old post and like it, you can upvote a more recent post or the authors reply to a comment on the post. Actually, the possiblities are endless and better than spamming cross-posts everywhere.

Yeah. I'm aware of all of this, but it's very problematic :( The community is original-content-centred and this disincentivises most kinds of reposts and shares that are not inline links (like this), explicit links, resteems or reblog.

Copying and pasting is basically like summoning the devil. I think it's due to the difference between the people in this community and the people on Reddit and similar places. The demographics are simply very different. I think the average age on Steem is much, much higher than on Reddit, by at least a decade and a half. This creates a more traditional-media conception of social media that creates a very unfamiliar world for us Internet-raised younglings.

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The accounts this feature mostly appeals to are the same people who thought 10 tags wasn't enough and 20 tags of actifit were just okay.

I think 30 tags. One for each witness vote.

:D

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