In terms of "clubs"... / In Sachen "Clubs"...

in Suggestions Club7 days ago

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Photo by Bernhard Kilian, Alienation by me - with help of diggfun.co

Deutsch im Anschluß...

Hello, Dear all!

At some point I was made a moderator in this valuable Community and called "Brainstormer" ;-)) And then... there was a certain silence on my part. This was partly due to several new responsibilities, but also because there were interesting discussions that I didn't want to interrupt, disturb or influence.

However, I would now like to return to one of the points raised in the debates - many committed Steemians took part in the discussions at the time and said everything there was to say, shedding light on the topic of "clubs" from all sides.

Before I come to today's occasion and my point of view, I would like to briefly explain my general attitude to this topic:

Even before the club system was introduced, I was virtually always a member of Club5050. That was my instinctive behaviour, as I know it from real life - I spend about half of my resources on myself and the other half on community benefits. This is of course a broad field, but in relation to the Steem it mainly concerns the rewards. Installing the Club5050 idea seemed natural and logical to me at the time. When the system was expanded and Club75 and Club100 were also differentiated, I decided to continue using Club5050. Because that's the way I am.

In the course of time, I have come across a number of situations in which Steemians have more or less apologised for having to initiate a Power Down because the economic hardship became too great or extreme situations made it necessary to use the nest egg. There were users who asked for donations while sitting on SP who didn't want to power down so as not to lose their club status. And many authors who never joined the club system because they saw the Steem as a regular source of income from the outset and therefore sold everything they earned here were never supported. Supported in the form of higher votes, I mean.

Overall, I can't help but find this unfair. The people who are most in need of these liquid assets are given the least chance to fulfil their hopes in this regard.

Last week, when I returned to work as a Community Curator in the "Three Angels for Steem" team after a long time away, I was thumbed in the face with the club problem. And that really pisses me off...

The club tags are obviously being used at will. On the one hand, the rules on club membership are interpreted in as many creative ways as the Bible or the German Civil Code; on the other hand, the majority of users don't even think about the meaning of these tags.

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A user who uses the #club5050 tag and gets it confirmed by the hosting Community...

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A user who uses the #club75 tag and gets it confirmed by the hosting Community

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A user who uses #club100 and also gets verified that way

As sorry as I am, if there is no centrally accessible set of rules and everyone simply continues to act as they see fit, the system contributes to injustice and leads to justified frustration (e.g. among users who have really internalised the system). In various Communities, users are confirmed to have clubs that have not performed a single power-up in the last few months - moderators can also be found among the incorrect users of the tags. In fact, there are also bloggers who would actually belong to Club100 or Club75, but somehow arbitrarily set any of the tags.

My not at all revolutionary, but pragmatic suggestion: get rid of it!

Anyone who has consciously decided to grow their account and build up a stake can do so without these tags. They have no added value compared to the damage they can cause.

The moment Community Curators are granted considerable degrees of freedom again, which also includes independence from the club affiliation of the supported authors in favour of their content, they no longer fulfil a legitimate purpose, on the contrary: they have an excluding and separating effect.

If Communities want to set such standards internally - why not? Steem-wide, I don't think it's appropriate anymore. The impact on the stability and price of Steem should not be significant either, as these initiatives only ever affected the marginal accounts and not those that are crucial in terms of size...

So much for that ;-))

Yours @weisser-rabe

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Deutsche Version:

Hallo, liebe Alle!

Da wurde ich irgendwann zum Moderator in dieser wichtigen Community gemacht und „Brainstormer“ genannt ;-)) Und dann… trat eine gewisse Ruhe ein von meiner Seite. Zum einen geschuldet mehreren neuen Verantwortlichkeiten, zum anderen aber auch, weil es interessante Diskussionen gab, die ich weder unterbrechen noch stören oder beeinflussen wollte.

Auf einen der angesprochenen Punkte in den Debatten will ich jedoch jetzt zurück kommen – viele engagierte Steemians haben sich seinerzeit an den Gesprächen beteiligt und alles gesagt, was es zu sagen gibt, das Thema „Clubs“ von allen Seiten beleuchtet.

Bevor ich zu meinem heutigen Anlaß und Standpunkt komme, würde ich gerne auch hier kurz meine generelle Einstellung zu diesem Thema erklären:

Auch bevor es zur Einführung des Club-Systems kam, gehörte ich quasi immer dem Club5050 an. Das war mein instinktives Verhalten, wie ich es aus dem richtigen Leben kenne – ich wende in etwas die Hälfte meiner Ressourcen für mich selbst auf und die andere Hälfte für gemeinschaftlichen Nutzen. Das ist natürlich ein weites Feld, aber bezogen auf den Steem betrifft es vor allem die Rewards. Die Installation der Club5050-Idee erschien mir damals ganz natürlich und folgerichtig. Als das System ausgebaut und zusätzlich Club75 und Club100 differenziert wurden, habe ich mich dafür entschieden, weiterhin Club5050 zu bedienen. Weil ich so bin.

Im Verlauf bin ich über etliche Situationen gestolpert, in denen Steemians sich quasi dafür entschuldigt haben, einen Power Down einleiten zu müssen, weil die wirtschaftliche Not zu groß wurde oder Extremsituationen die Nutzung des Notgroschens erforderlich machten. Es gab Nutzer, die um Spenden baten, während sie auf SP saßen, die sich nicht down powern wollten, um ihren Clubstatus nicht zu verlieren. Und viele Autoren, die nie dem Clubsystem beitraten, weil sie von vornherein den Steem als reguläre Einkommensquelle sahen und daher alles verkauften, was sie hier einnahmen, wurden nie unterstützt. Unterstützt in Form von höheren Votes, meine ich.

Insgesamt kann ich nicht anders, als das ungerecht zu finden. Den Menschen, die am dringendsten auf diese liquiden Mittel angewiesen sind, werden die geringsten Chancen eingeräumt, ihre diesbezüglichen Hoffnungen zu erfüllen.

In der vergangenen Woche, in der ich nun nach langer Zeit wieder als Community Kuratorin im Team „Drei Engel für Steem“ tätig bin, wurde ich mit der Nase gewaltig auf das Club-Problem gestoßen. Und das stößt mir sauer auf…

Die Club-tags werden ganz offensichtlich nach Lust und Laune verwendet. Einerseits wird die Regelung zur Clubzugehörigkeit ebenso vielfältig kreativ ausgelegt wie die Bibel oder das Bürgerliche Gesetzbuch; andererseits macht sich ein Großteil der Nutzer gar keine Gedanken um den Bedeutungsgehalt dieser tags.

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Ein Nutzer, der den #club5050 tag nutzt und ihn von der gastgebenden Community bestätigt bekommt...

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Ein Nutzer, der den #club75 tag nutzt und ihn von der gastgebenden Community bestätigt bekommt

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Ein Nutzer, der #club100 nutzt und auch verifiziert bekommt

So leid es mir tut: wenn es kein irgendwo zentral einsehbares Regelwerk dazu gibt und jeder einfach weiter nach Gutdünken verfährt, trägt das System zur Ungerechtigkeit bei und führt zu berechtigter Frustration (z.B. bei den Nutzern, die das System wirklich verinnerlicht haben). In verschiedenen Communities werden den Nutzern Clubs bestätigt, die nicht ein einziges Power Up in den letzten Monaten vorgenommen haben – auch Moderatoren sind durchaus unter den fälschlichen Anwendern der tags zu finden. Tatsächlich gibt es auch Blogger, die eigentlich Club100 oder Club75 angehören würden, aber irgendwie willkürlich einen beliebigen der tags setzen.

Mein ganz und gar nicht revolutionärer, aber pragmatischer Vorschlag: weg damit!

Wer sich bewußt dafür entschieden hat, seinen Account wachsen zu lassen und einen Stake aufzubauen, tut das auch ohne diese tags. Sie haben keinen Mehrwert gegenüber Schaden, den sie anrichten können.

In dem Moment, wo den Community Kuratoren wieder erhebliche Freiheitsgrade eingeräumt werden, was auch Unabhängigkeit von der Clubzugehörigkeit der unterstützten Autoren zugunsten ihrer Inhalte inkludiert, erfüllen sie keinen legitimen Zweck mehr, im Gegenteil: sie wirken ausschließend und separierend.

Wenn Communities intern solche Marken setzen wollen – warum nicht? Steemweit finde ich es nicht mehr angebracht. Die Auswirkungen auf Stabilität und Preis des Steem dürften ebenfalls nicht ins Gewicht fallen, da diese Initiativen stets nur die marginalen Accounts betraf und nicht die größenmäßig ausschlaggebenden…

Soviel hierzu ;-))

Euer @weisser-rabe

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I agree!

Not because you said it, and certainly not because I don't want to remain in the club—because I definitely do!

I understand that it's up to me to strengthen my account.

I've encountered the arbitrariness you mentioned many times during my curation.

I think if the face value of a post is content, the rest will automatically fall into place.

How?

If you don't power up, you're not benefiting your account. So it's your loss! Let the community decide if they want to vote for you or not. Let your words speak for you!

Let it be your loss, not the community's.

If the content speaks for itself, it doesn't matter which club you're in. And if your post is shit people won't (shouldn't) vote for you even if you are in club100.

And what's the fuss about power down? Not that I am advocating it, but powering down a little for your needs (crucial or otherwise) is far better than letting SP sit unused in your wallet for months.

Powerful words - thank you, Maan!

Hi Dear ! I would like to share my opinion in terms of club .Just like the club5050 tag has become a part of almost every user's Steemit journey, it should be kept only up to club5050, and club75 and club100 should be abolished, or or i think it will be better to the club system should be ended altogether.

This would make things easier for communities and curators. I've noticed that club5050 doesn't get the same support like before . Although I've powered up my (savings) more than my rewards , I still want to remain in club5050. But if we look at it, users in club5050 only get 12.5% of the post reward, which can be cashed out. Which is insignificant. You can estimate yourself.

For example, if a post's total reward is 50 steem, the curator gets 25 SP, and 12.5 steem goes to the author's Steem Power. So, if a club5050 user powers up 6.5 steem from the remaining 12.5 liquid steem, they can only cash out 6 steem. And in my opinion, 6 steem is not a significant amount.

For a user, the platform has its own significance, but a good author dedicates their entire time to create a quality publication, and if they don't receive a reward, it implies that their time is worthless.

Yes, in everything we try to do here, we fail to recognise that on the platform, pure pleasure in writing meets economic necessity. Both don't really want to be brought under one hat (haha - pun especially for you ;-))) - although it would be possible.

You are a wonderful Friend. You have explained a very important point in just a few words. And certainly, this can change my way of thinking. And I will give it my full attention.

Thanks A Ton

I think, I may be evil and I shall fall on my sword to atone. There's actually a club? One joins the club? I thought it was only a tag.

Oh well, Argh!

I like you! The whole drama vividly sizzled into one sentence ;-)))

I wanted asking a question in regards to this topic..

Before now, in my bid to grow my SP, I wasn’t really consistent in following the club rules because i often times power up all my steem in order to meet my target, even though I was in club50 or 75.

But now that I’m strictly following the rules of club50/50, some of those communities that has labeled me club75 in the past, still thinks I’m in club75 whenever I participate in their contests.

I wanted to be sure I’m not against the rules!!?

Good morning! As far as I can see, you're a good boy ;-))

You use the correct tags. You have received these labels from the respective Communities and it is their responsibility to take care of keeping such information up to date...

Thanks ma’am!!

 yesterday 

I think the club system fulfilled its main mission and gave us hundreds of accounts whose votes are worth more than 0 cents. This livened up the interaction and made the platform more interesting. The latest changes in the curation rules are probably the first step towards the complete abolition of the club system. On the one hand, this is good, because it removes additional restrictions imposed on authors. On the other hand, now the absolute majority of authors will have no incentive to Power Up. Therefore, I think that the club system, namely the 5050 club, should somehow be preserved, perhaps at the level of some active communities.

I also think that the tags about clubs, as well as the #steemexclusive tag, do not fulfill their function, they only take up space. I would get rid of those tags. All the same, when curating, each curator is forced to check all this. It would be better if we put more tags relevant to the content, this would improve Steemit's relationship with search engines and potentially attract new readers.

The club tags are used almost arbitrarily - and confirmed by the moderators and admins in exactly the same way. Whether they don't realise or don't understand the conditions... I don't know. For the "honest" users of the corresponding tags, however, I see this as unequal treatment.

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