Hardfork 21 is HAPPENING. What will change?

in hf21 •  27 days ago  (edited)

hf21 change coming v2.jpg

Hello Steemians, exciting times are upon us. On Tuesday, August 27th at 11:00 AM EDT, Steem will go through its 21st hardfork! We previously summarized the changes, but in today’s post we would like to help you understand what you can expect on 11:00 AM Tuesday morning when the hardfork occurs.

What is a Hardfork?

For those who are confused about all of this hardfork business, all you really need to know is that hardforks are a blockchain-specific term for software upgrades. As you probably know, blockchains are impossible to change by design. That’s why we call them "immutable." The chain grows as information is added to it in new blocks while the old information‒the information earlier in the chain of blocks‒stays the same.

This code has to be carefully designed because it protects all the tokens stored on the blockchain, all the social information Steemians choose to store on it, and it also governs the interactions between these two systems. This code has to be “bulletproof” so that as long as people are running Steem nodes, and as long as people are transacting on the blockchain, the chain will continue to grow in accordance with the rules embedded into the blockchain.

Updating the Rules

You can think of a hardfork as an update of the rules going forward. We can’t go back and change the rules that governed the creation of the chain in the past, but we can change the rules in a way that governs the future growth of the chain. This rule change is a little like taking a fork in the road. Some people running the blockchain may choose to continue using the old rules, isolating themselves in the process.

Because this change requires a firm commitment going forward, whether one chooses the new or old rules, it is hard. And that’s how we get the term "hardfork." It is similar to other software upgrades except that all of the nodes in the network have to coordinate their actions so that it happens at the exact same time. We have chosen August 27th at 11 AM for the next coordinated upgrade. One important factor in this choice was ensuring that exchanges were given enough time to prepare.

Maintaining Stability

In many protocols, hardforks are a chaotic event that threatens the stability of the ecosystem. This is because protocols like Ethereum and Bitcoin allow any motivated person to become a node and, as long as any nodes prefer the old software (i.e. the status quo) to the new, the result is a splitting of the chain into two competing protocols. Examples of these can be found with Bitcoin Cash, Bitcoin Gold, and Ethereum Classic.

DPoS

With Delegated Proof of Stake (DPoS), while anyone can produce blocks, only the top 20 block producers as determined by stake-weighted upvote, are "canonical." In order for new software to be integrated into the blockchain a supermajority of Witnesses have to come to a "consensus." The Steem blockchain guarantees that if a supermajority of Witnesses begin running the new software, any blocks from Witness nodes that have not upgraded will be invalidated. This is a classic hardfork.

However, because a super-majority is required, and because the Witnesses are ultimately accountable to Steem’s stakeholders, the odds are maximized toward only positive changes being made, along with very little interest in creating sister-forks; chains that continue being run based on the old rules.

What to Expect

Hopefully all of this happens seamlessly and you don't notice much of anything at all. We, along with many community members and witnesses, have been testing the new version of Steem on our testnet for several months now and have performed the hardfork logic on several smaller testnets.

But as much as we plan and test, it is possible to run into a few hiccups shortly after the hardfork because that will be the first time that new code will be run at scale. Our engineers will be monitoring the state of the network carefully during and after the hardfork so we can react quickly to any problems, should they arise.

User Experience Changes

There are a few changes that will impact how you use steemit.com and other Steem interfaces.

Rewards

The rewards curve is changing. We expect posts that would make more than 20 STEEM under the old rules to earn more after the changes. Those posts that would have made less than 20 STEEM under the old rules will receive less after the changes.

Reward Split

Reward funding is being changed from the 75/25 split that currently exists, to a 50/50 split between author and curator. That means you will be rewarded significantly more for curating content after the fork.

Downvotes

A downvote mana pool is being added, which will allow you to make a few downvotes each day without impacting your ability to earn curation rewards from upvotes.

If you would like to learn more about the changes included in HF21, please read this post.

The Steemit Team

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First of all, this is a great opportunity for people to start manually curating the way in which they believe it ought to be done. No more excuses that delegating to bid bots is too much more lucrative. We're all so lucky to be the first people ever with the power to influence and incentivize the behaviors and development that we want to see in the future social web. Let's build that shit together instead of quarreling over "rewards" that don't mean anything else than dilution + lowered STEEM price unless we use it to create something others find worth joining.

This is a great opportunity to sell your free downvotes if you never plan on using them and to use bid bots to make sure all rewards are 20+ SP so you don't get cheated.

Hopefully, the stakeholders that have stayed with Steem through the bear market understands that min-maxing returns from selling down/up-votes doesn't result in profit, but a decrease in the value of their holdings. Let's change that.

@edicted is making a point that is logical. The reality is that most people's posts don't get anywhere near 20 STEEM without bidbots. That's just a cold hard reality. This change is making bidbots more necessary for content producers.

  ·  26 days ago Reveal Comment

No the cold hard reality is that new people will loose interest before they even know how it all works. What they should have done is make post with higher value on it reduce the gain. And those with lower votes gain more. That is logic. Now they are kissing up to high sp people.

No the cold hard reality is that new people will loose interest before they even know how it all works.

We can't know this until we've seen how things play out. But I agree that it is a fair concern that smaller users, communities, and comments in general may suffer.

However, stakeholders can choose to avoid this if they want. We for instance build our curation system on @steempress to add support behind a large number of curation projects. So that smaller users who write original content and get engagement from others can quite easily reach 20 Steem in total post rewards.

Speaking for Steem in general, a lot rests on the assumption that a significant amount of the stake currently delegated to bid bots will go back towards manual curation, as well as downvotes returning rewards from vote farmers to proper users.

Like you said before nearly no one earns 20$ on their posts at the moment. The only people that do are those with either a big pocket or a big following. They will be earning more. But to be frank it is not those people that need to stay around to make a "SOCIAL" network. It are the small people that make or break a big system like steem. We have seen a decline in activity for months now. Because the small people don't interact anymore. Everyone is scrounging to get ever last bit of steem. And what do the devs do? Make shure the small people earn even less while the big whales earn more .... ?

@fredrikaa I think this upgrade is based on wishes how we all want it to be, but it's also based on 0% reality. You who were working on upgrade, should have known better by now

However, stakeholders can choose to avoid this if they want.

Why would they want to choose to avoid this if they didn't want to choose to avoid this so far?

However, stakeholders can choose to avoid this if they want.

Ah! that's the KEY question here. If they choooose to avoid 'this' if they want!! eh?

C'mon @fredrikaa. Please, start reading another kind of stuff. :)

I mean we are a SOCIAL NETWORK.. So why not use our voices for things we believe in instead of just making money.. I see arguments for both sides, but I like to personally upvote posts because some people post things I like and sometimes they post things I don't so.. I guess it's like voting.. You have a voice and it's up to you to use it.

I think if people on Steem just voted what they actually liked, it would result in everyone - especially those holding Steem Power - earning more money. Curation rewards and bid bot returns are not "profits" if you're a stakeholder, because it comes from inflation that dilutes your assets. To make real money is to increase the value of the token.

  ·  26 days ago (edited)

Yes to increase the value of the token is much bette rthan blogging and when we get bloggers to focus on posting about steem OUTSIDE of steem on twitter and youtube reddit etc we can bring in bitcoin holders to invest LARGE bags in steem I MEAN LARGE bags

but yeah its sad to realize that so many people would have a completely different outlook if someone early on at steemit inchad just set up a wolf of wallstreet style marketing dept that pulled in users to an inner circle to see how many new investors one single highly motivated individual could bring in and then TASK that work out to thousands of users... the blokchain is about to undergo things like thsi with TASK token and CAPTCHA and @steenm.ninja INV invite token and its possible distribution via @banjo discord bot for onboarding but we need @steemit @steem @elipowell to check out the work of inertia and maybe fund it to get a massive network of discord steembots issuing steem accounts but EVEN WITHOUT steemit incs help it will happen on its own thats the exciting part. steem is going to start working on its own in a free market way that will show off what steem is truley capable off , all the demand steem can drive froim tribes and steem engine trading and much more.

  ·  26 days ago Reveal Comment
  ·  26 days ago (edited)

What the heck does Nationality or race have anything to do with this? Steem has never depended on anyone but a few wealthy whales (From all around the world) to find its true price, and there is no need to keep users that need convincing. They can sell if they want now and waste their steem on a few dollars of food , when they could have held their savings. You arent supposed to cash out of your stock market savings portfolio just because the prices are low :)
Your argument really came out of left field and it feels like youre actually upset about something else, and I understand the concern for steemians in developing countries but they shouldnt deserve and dont want special treatment. They knew what they were getting into, and many of us dont look a gift horse in the mouth.
Many of these people you refrence got a lot of steem for free and if they did buy it, they can wait the market out like everyone else for steem to find a bottom. There arent that many whales who even own very much steem so the bottom is bound to be somewhere near 7 to 10 cents where a few other whales I know got in (They wont want others to get in) So tell the people in developing nations to place their buy orders very low, maybe then they can become whales on steem and if and when we go back to $ to $8 range this will all have been worth it. or it can go down as far as people are willing to sell it to, but there isnt an infinite supply and it cant get too cheap without certain whales being unable to control their urge to buy millions of steem at less than 10 cents ... etc etc

Exactly.

You left out the important of "if you're a stakeholder".

My point was to make it clear that curation rewards and bid bot returns are not "profits" to someone who has bought Steem. Because those tokens dilute their existing stake at the same time. So if you want to get more wealthy as someone holding Steem, your focus should be on what you can do to increase the value of the tokens that you have.

So nothing you wrote made any sense in the full context of what I said.

Not everyone who has bought Steem has done so as an investment. Some have simply bought it as 'pay to play' to increase their enjoyment of the platform.
Always the talk of is of investment and ROI but this is not everyone's primary motive for being here.
Everyone who has 'invested' time here is also a stakeholder. It is still an unlevel playing field designed to exponentially help those with more financial wealth than those without. Exact the people Blockchain technology would benefit the most.

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My sentiments exactly, @nathen007.

I think both social and business are being harnessed here! Isn't it a win win synergy??

Why not both?

First of all, this is a great opportunity for people to start manually curating the way in which they believe it ought to be done

I read and upvote many articles. If my vote is worth 0.01 now, it will be worth 0.02 after. That's NOT going to change my voting or curation behaviour one iota.

Let's build that shit together instead of quarreling over "rewards" that don't mean anything else than dilution + lowered STEEM price unless we use it to create something others find worth joining.

Rewards mean a great deal to many people here.....not you, of course, you're living the first world dream which is great but there are people here from all over the globe, so try and use a global context to the discussion instead of your simple, rose-tinted first-world perspective.

No more excuses that delegating to bid bots is too much more lucrative

So you will be withdrawing your delegation to OCDB then from which you make a tidy sum each day?

I read and upvote many articles. If my vote is worth 0.01 now, it will be worth 0.02 after. That's NOT going to change my voting or curation behaviour one iota.

My comment here is mostly addressing the opportunity to get the tens of millions of SP currently delegated to bidbots to be used to curate to create a web that we want, and the potential impact that can have.

Rewards mean a great deal to many people here.....not you, of course, you're living the first world dream which is great but there are people here from all over the globe, so try and use a global context to the discussion instead of your simple, rose-tinted first-world perspective.

If you want to be taken seriously, then make arguments based on the content of what is said and not the identity of the person saying it. Anyone can earn Steem and become a significant stakeholder here. So the comment does apply to anyone anywhere.

So you will be withdrawing your delegation to OCDB then from which you make a tidy sum each day?

That's my plan. Although ocdb is not like other bid bots since it provides good content creators added opportunity to earn mroe Steem.

Good content creators . Again good depends on your starting definition.

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I hope so.

Shouldn't our main priority be to grow the user base, the price would then take care of itself?

These changes seem to most likely do the opposite of that, do they not?

Yes, this change will indeed deter new users. Create an account. Play a bit around, never get above the dust value, abandon account.

The changes are made to make investors rich. You better be an investor. This way you earn and do not need to write/post/comment.

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But without new users your investment is going down the drain. Slaughtering the goose that lays golden eggs.

On point

and because the Witnesses are ultimately accountable to Steem’s stakeholders, the odds are maximized toward only positive changes being made

Laughable, at best.

We expect posts that would make more than 20 STEEM under the old rules to earn more after the changes. Those posts that would have made less than 20 STEEM under the old rules will receive less after the changes.

Well, if you needed a FU newbs, here ya go.

Unless the whales step up it looks like a curtain call to me!
See ya on broadway!

That means you will be rewarded significantly more for curating content after the fork.

Yea! My .002 is is going to .004!

Props for the honesty, stinc.
That took backbone.

🔥🔥🔥

!dramatoken

As an added bonus, here's a GIF I just made in honor of this most glorious fork.

So, what if our whale overlords have decided the crumbs that fall from their tables should be a bit smaller?

At least we are getting crumbs! We collect them over time and we just might have enough for a WHOLE SLICE OF BREAD.

Maybe over a year or so we will have a whole loaf! 😋

Now that's a lot of CALORIES! 🍞

So, what if it's a little moldy by then. That's just EXTRA FLAVOR!

Don't be ungrateful, @freebornangel! Fall back in line, citizen! 👮

If you want the dolphins and whales to enjoy steem more and maybe BUY MORE steem, we MIGHT need this :) Imagine the dolphins who benefit get excited enough from these changes to buy more steem, the price of steem goes up and all of our rewards go up to new levels, levels that we may never have gotten to without these changes

Doesn't look like it. Looks more like they started selling when they read the HF21 paper.

Should have done so as well. Silly me.

I have been but with much trepidation which is prudent imo.

As long as the bid bot owners as well as founder circle jerk circles hijack inflation without proof-of-brain it is risky.

Perhaps, the technical changes w the fork may assuage my concerns but I am one to suppose the problem tends to be more a matter of culture and lack of decisive leadership from the large stakeholders up until this point.

I appreciate your enthusiasm but in my line of work here exposes me to some shady things. Things that don't imbue me with confidence.

Don't get me wrong. Steem has countless redeeming qualities but make no mistake. There is a cancer and we are gearing up for a slightly more aggressive yet unfocused treatment.

If StInc would take a hard stance against vote selling collusion and impenitent token manipulators, I think the prognosis would be much better. They could always delegate that responsibility to @steemflagrewards. 🙃

Time will tell.

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How about all of us buying some Steem?

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  ·  26 days ago Reveal Comment

Sir, yes sir!
The recruit will fall back into line and make due with his fortunate position in the crumb line!

Just keep that lobster under control!


Such drama, you've earned a DRAMA!

To view or trade DRAMA go to steem-engine.com.

:) I like the Drama Token...haha
They def. earned some! ;)

Well, if you needed a FU newbs, here ya go.

It has absolutely nothing to do with newbs, it is about posts being rewarded more than 20 steem which has nothing to do with newbs.

Sublinear.

Exponentially.

Yeah, so after I pointed out that your FUD about newbs was bullshit you come back with non sequitur response.

Lol,...

  ·  27 days ago (edited)

I've had several discussions with you regarding not only how (read: not why) we got to this point, but also these proposals and so when I see your bullshit about "they said the rich get richer" or "screw the newbs" it's satisfying to call it out knowing that we both know how full of shit you are. You lately respond to being called out with more nonsense/bullshit and/or snickering, for whatever reason, showing me that you

Have

Been

Reduced.

I've effectively countered your nonsense, and while you've had numerous opportunities to respond in a thoughtful manner you foolishly hunker down behind the same sentiment of "development is shit and stakeholders are worse" with your snickering and petulant nonsense and you're completely convinced it seems, that by slandering either the community/stakeholders or the development (which is one and the same as far as I'm concerned) you are holding their toes to the fire, but what I see you do is neither holding their toes to the fire or honoring the principles behind such, like accountability, which comes chiefly from integrity, so it simply is slanderous nonsense and its mostly to castigate it seems, and you think steemit/whales as responsible and you think you're holding them accountable but you are not accountable or responsible for what you claim even, a burden that is considered so cursory it ought never to be evaded, but that doesn't mean you don't have very high standards of others and think you deserve to lecture them on principles like integrity and responsibility.

Cut the bullshit already, what are you trying to do, because it seems like thousands of failuires later you're trying the exact same thing/still sticking to the script, but now you have me in the mix though, taking every single opportunity (and sometimes tripling it) to make sure that I exemplify the way to respond to bullshit. I'll let you know when it's over.

Lol, give me hell, baah!

I'm just trying to understand the math.
You don't have to appreciate my methods.
Nor do you have to agree that when somebody makes changes that were known to be flawed doubles down on those changes I should double down on my contentious resistance to said changes.
If you remember correctly, steemit was on the soon to be deprecated list not that long ago.

As for the shadow banning, there is only one way to prove what I said, and I'm betting it's only a matter of time until I find more broken links.

I will be sure to tag you when I do.

I'm just trying to understand the math.

Good one, is that why you're asking instead of stating?

You don't have to appreciate my methods.

Cut the crap. Methods aren't unsubstantiated slanderous nonsense.

Nor do you have to agree that when somebody makes changes that were known to be flawed doubles down on those changes I should double down on my contentious resistance to said changes.

What changes exactly? That's what I fucking thought, vague nonsense.

If you remember correctly, steemit was on the soon to be deprecated list not that long ago.

Which list? Who's list?

As for the shadow banning, there is only one way to prove what I said, and I'm betting it's only a matter of time until I find more broken links.

Broken links don't mean shit. You think that the simplest explanation for a broken link is a massive conspiracy to "shadowban" you, because when you regard unadulterated slander as a methodology of operating then the simplest explanation is the most insane and idiocy ridden one.

You missed the other half:

Those posts that would have made less than 20 STEEM under the old rules will receive less after the changes.

What are you talking about? Does that mean that it has absolutely anything to do with "newbs", because you just exemplified how to completely miss the other person's point, point being that the quote is not referring at all to new users.

Fuck it's painful to watch the idiotic nonsense that leaves people's mouths like a bad habit before they consider what they read or even what they said.

The new payout rules have absolutely something to do with discouraging new users. You just choose to not see it.

Have to disagree with you on a number of points. But firstly I have said before I would like the changes to have gone further, maybe 10/90 split. The truth is the vast majority of users will never earn by posting, however they can continue to do so in the hope a post goes viral. When most of the upvotes are worth practically nothing anyway, we need a way for those accounts to grow enough so their vote counts, yes the rewards to authors will hit their earnings but if the votes they get are worth more it should compensate for the loss in earnings.

You need some way in my view to distribute Steem to the lesser accounts and then in turn they will distribute it back. You can't prevent some of this being sold but good Curation incentives should be enough to curtail that. What is certain is that the current model isn't working and with the ability to just earn by delegating to bots it just plays into the hands of those with the most Steem.

Another problem is the bad image it presents that you just sign up with a Steem account and the $$$ just pour in, that doesn't help in the long run. Also there is much more to do than just post and upvote so the focus needs to be getting users to get Steem and Power Up. There are vastly more users who will benefit from Curation rewards than will ever benefit from Post rewards. The problem though is this doesn't fix the other problem, that is getting users to manually upvote original content and stop them delegating to bidbots. If you could fix that aspect as well then I think you would have a better Steem eco system.

But like someone above said its also not about how many rewards you get its about how much those rewards are worth so the focus must be on increasing the token value, I think there is enough going on in Steem to attract new users so I am confident this won't have such a bad effect on that as you believe.

I'm not actually all that much bothered about the 50/50 Split. The decrease in income for postings under 20 Steem bothers me.

And that will hit both small authors and curators. And the amount of posts is already falling:

As is the amount of votes:

As is the value of steem itself. Note that I did buy steem and powered up in the past. But I don't see a point in it any more.

My suspicion: The dolphin to wales have all the steem they want and smaller accounts are disillusioned and don't want to invest.

As for a 10/90 split: Why not go all the way and do 0/100 split like @dtube? We'll see how that will work's out. It's worth a try.

You just choose not to point out in no uncertain way how that limit has anything to do with new users, so I'll just continue to point out that the curve does not have anything to do with new users, it's entirely about posts, not users.

If you like pointless nitpicking then go ahead.

But I have a question for you: Who makes those postings? And who curates those postings?

Hint: They are macroscopic so they don't pop into existence out of the quantum foam.

There's nothing pointless or nitpicky about what I said. Here I'll repeat it again because I like reiterating what you attempted to mitigate to "pointless nitpicking" as:

A curve for posts has ABSOLUTELY no-thing to do with new users.

Do your best to marginalize, change the topic or any thing to that effect.

Unless the whales step up..

50% curation reward and the #NewSteem campaign might change all this.. Or else why are all even here..

Yes, if the whales step up and put an end to the abuse it might be worth hanging out, but if they chase off most of the people, what are we doing here?

We already can't get many views as it is.

Would you guys consider publishing some kind of rankings related to the amount of value posts bring to steemit (ie. backlinks, traffic from social media and search engines, etc)? This might allow bidbots to be more selective and only upvote authors who create content that grows the platform.

Survival guide? There is absolutely nothing in here about sleeping bags and hiding under the bed. I feel cheated.

hahah ! best reply ever ! you made them change the title .. HF 21 yo !

  ·  27 days ago (edited)

Sleeping bags will be having zippers removed in order to make escape easier when attacked by a bear market, @meesterboom ... Unfortunately, beds will be lowered making it virtually impossible for anyone to hide from being jabbed in the ass with a hardfork….

That's why I don't trust beds!

And what about steemitblog? Been cheated twice now; they changed the headtitle ...

Aw. I feel bad. I was only joking! :0D

...or to hang themselves from...

It's been a long time, since I have commented, but this is awesome! I have been so busy, haven't had much time for content consumption lately.

Hey dude!! Glad you are busy, your YouTube channel working well?

It's the same old same old with me!!

Yeah it is going pretty well! Just passed 70k subs. But it is still like full time work for not even half time pay! LOL Just launched another ebook on Amazon, a little mini cookbook. And started some merch too. Things are progressing, still way slower then I would like! LOL Glad things are well with you.

70K! You are laughing! Once you got that magic 100K Mark you are in turbo charged mode!! Awesome stuff man!

oh yes the coveted "Silver" which really isn't silver play button! haha Thanks man!! :) :)

Aw, it's not silver! Swines!

Lmao!

Yea I was expecting how we should remember to change voting time etc.

Lol

Let’s see what happens! I’m prepared! 🤑

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Wow I still can't believe at one point we were fighting for Ethereum for the #2 spot on coinmarketcap!!
https://cointelegraph.com/news/steem-chasing-ether-in-market-cap

That is amazing, just over three years ago. Now we know how much the altcoin market can change in just three years. The other top coins are still there though. Steem is the one that has lost its position majorly.

Here we go again :) I hope this one goes smoothly as keeping the Steem blockchain going should be the priority. There will be new opportunities with these new conditions. I hope the curators will choose to vote up the good content and not just go for short term profits. Steem has lost enough users lately and we do not want to drive more away. Maybe the big accounts can use their free downvotes to counter some of the abuse.

Onward and upwards!

I think that the rule that will favour posts over 20 steem will crash all the small content creators to be honest. We have to wait and see of course, but the general impression I have is that if a post make more than 10 $ it is crap and scam.

Yes! Onwards and Upwards! But can this be guaranteed by this hardfork?? I ask because many a hope were dashed after the previous fork!!

Nothing is guaranteed. We know there are lots of greedy people on Steem who will just take, but there are some good whales who vote up quality stuff. If they vote down the crap and buying votes has less profit then it could improve. It depends if they go for profit or for the community.

Well thought out. Let's keep hope alive!!

We expect posts that would make more than 20 STEEM under the old rules to earn more after the changes.

That's really weird!

When I look at the graph for the convergent linear curve... I don't see it ever going above the old linear curve... why then would a post earn more after the fork?

->  

If I take that into a graph calculator I don't see this go above the old figures anywhere. Are you expecting claims to be worth more STEEM after the fork so that the same amount (slightly less actually) would be worth more STEEM in rewards than before?

I guess that could make sense as the globally distributed claims get less under the same number of rshares being generated through voting. Adding in some more of those free flags to the pool of votes, the same amount of claims might be worth even more in actual rewards... did I just answer my own question?

  ·  26 days ago (edited)

Some content will earn more from the pool simply because the pool is a zero-sum game in the short term. The absolute value of the curve doesn't matter, only the relative value. Whatever is reduced the least (which in practice is the higher end) will actually be an increase in practice.

did I just answer my own question?

You did!

Linear does not mean proportional. Your blue line is slightly wrong, it should not go through (0,0), there is a small SP gap that is deducted from each upvote - about 3 SP if I recall.
Look at the graphs in the old reward curve post - then factor in the general loss of author rewards.

Linear does not mean proportional.

And what is that supposed to mean???

I know... since HF20 50 million rshares are always deducted from every vote... that's more like 1.5SP I think... you wouldn't even see that in the image of the graph unless zooming in very very very close. But yes, I did not include it in the graph, it's totally irrelevant to my initial question.

Look at the graphs in the old reward curve post - then factor in the general loss of author rewards.

I still don't get what you are trying to tell me.

Please correct me if I am wrong. If I buy an upvote post hardfork, I will be paying curators 50% instead of 25%? I believe this will put the nail in the coffin of buying votes as a means to earn.

Actually, it will do the oposite. Everything about HF21 is hardwired to promote growth of the bidbot economy within the main STEEM ecosystem.

correct. the changes needed are minimal and, let's not forget, the value of any paid vote is relative to the value of one's upvote (of an upvote in general).

The price of bought votes will likely decline. Whatever other changes might also happen due to freer use of downvotes, differences in voting behaviour, etc. is more speculative and more difficult to predict.

  ·  27 days ago (edited)

I’m thinking some will still survive by increasing Roi to buyers from their curation. Some will probably adapt to a token as a means of paying back value. Who knows! 😂

Or curation trails might be the way to go just like it did couple years ago. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Did the custom json collision semi-solution make it into the fork? I've seen vague mentions of that but it doesn't seem to be in any of your posts.

At this point that's much more important to the future of user experience than the entire voting system.

#sbi-skip

If you mean increasing the number of allowed custom_json ops per block, yes - that has been bumped to 5 per block from 1.

The complete release notes are here

I have only earned 20 SBD once or twice on a Curied post - before STEEM dropped. (A Curie used to be worth 50+ SBD. Now, it's around 9-10 SBD.)
From what I have seen, the vast majority of quality posters are lucky to earn even 1 SBD per post! So, the ones that have the means to buy their votes will do well from this HF. The rest of us will suffer.

What's your plan to keep good bloggers around? What's your plan to attract new ones? The life of Steem depends on content producers, yet every time we turn around, it's harder and harder to function unless you can afford to put in serious investment - and who is going to do that when the bloggers are leaving - or not even bothering to join in the first place?

I'm actually really excited about this, The way I see it. Is Authors will get rewarded more, Because people can make money just by voting. So for those people who are posting just for profit, Won't have to. This will hopefully drop the amount of posters but get those with power to ensure they are using their votes.

It's just like how the tribes have been, with the incentive to manually curate due to 50/50 rewards which is what I did. Steemit for awhile didn't give too much for hard work, except for your upvotes @kaylinart and then odd times you get lucky to get something decent.

It will be good to see anyone working hard on a post, get rewarded from more people upvoting with higher values and knowing you both get rewarded!

I really, really hope so! If so, it could be a real boon for Steem - and a model for the other blockchains to follow.

So for those people who are posting just for profit, Won't have to. This will hopefully drop the amount of posters but get those with power to ensure they are using their votes.

Hahaha Yeah! @kaylinart. I just wonder what the heck will be available to 'Curate' in an environment of exclusively pure c-u-r-e-i-t-o-r-s? ;p

The post says 20 STEEM, not SBD (which is about $3.40 at current price).

Good catch. Apologies.

Still, that makes the number around 6 SBD right now - only my curied posts get that much - and I'm sure the same is true for the vast majority of bloggers on the platform.

I really hope the hoped-for increase in curation makes up for the loss that most of us will see.

Double your curation rewards and ask yourself if that compensates.

They just said, 'we expect the rich to get richer'.

If the whales don't downvote enough to replicate the whale experiment look for steem to go on sale.

Have you seen the current rates? I would say it is on sale already, steem is down 90% since i joined

Yes, I've ridden the rocket from .07 to 8.0 and all the way back to .16.
I'm not buying, just yet.
I bought at .2 and am waiting for .1, or lower.

  ·  27 days ago Reveal Comment

I agree with you..From last 15 days, I am posting 2 to 3 quality post every day, I hardly make 2 SBD But I believe in Steem. It will rise as of now i am not earning enough but i am trying to build solid reputation inside the community.

The break even point they mentioned in the post is 20 STEEM not 20 SBD. That's more like $3.60 at current prices. Even somewhat below that, the effect is pretty modest. People are freaking out thinking they'll get completely screwed out of rewards if the post value is below 20 STEEM but mostly that isn't true. At 15 or 10 STEEM you may not even notice the difference given regular daily price change on STEEM of +/- 5-10% as well as other factors.

Lately, most of my posts (original and high quality) end between 1 and 3 STEEM. (Average 2.) I've been on STEEM 2 years, full time, and I work with a team of models, including my wife. We invested $5000 into STEEM when we arrived. Our current total is LESS THAN that! In fact it's far less, only $500. We have worked 2 years, and invested 5 grand, and it's down to $500. And we are putting out excellent content that is in demand. Will my 2 STEEM payouts be decreased by the new 20 STEEM break even point? I think so.
But we will get a fraction of a STEEM more for our curation, so that's supposed to make it okay?
HF21 is even worse than HF20 and that's saying something.

  ·  23 days ago (edited)

We invested $5000 into STEEM when we arrived. Our current total is LESS THAN that! In fact it's far less, only $500

In fact this is the most important thing. Your STEEM/SP is worth less because the price of Steem has declined, in large part because Steem has not been successful in executing on its vision.

That is more important than payouts. You aren't going to make back $5000 in losses (and hopefully make more than that) through payouts no matter what. This is a futile treadmill mentality. Work to improve the value of Steem.

People are much too focused on payouts as a source of investment payoff when they should be focused on the success of Steem and the price/value going up as a result.

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There must be NO downwotes at all, not more of this censorship shit

  ·  27 days ago (edited)

Pretty much hate all changes in this hf

All changes will hurt user experience. With users I mean those that create value by creating content.

  • As an author you will simply earn less overall. So creating valuable content makes even less sense now.
  • bots will have a field day, by simply upvoting popular content at the perfect time.

What steem needs is content creators to get rewarded for producing content people consume and enjoy. This goes against all of this.

Why not just pay all rewards to SP holders at least that would be straight forward instead of gradually destroying the value prop for content creators

The HF of course is amazing if you run a site for bots or any vote automation where you do not hold your own SP.

  ·  26 days ago (edited)

Rewards
The rewards curve is changing. We expect posts that would make more than 20 STEEM under the old rules to earn more after the changes. Those posts that would have made less than 20 STEEM under the old rules will receive less after the changes.

What does this even mean? Very confusing

So basically is it saying... if you dont make at least 20 steem on your posts, expect to start making less? LOL ok... if youre going to give more rewards to the people with more SP just fucking say it, nothing wrong with rewarding success. @mughat called it "ProofofProfit" and honestly you should reward people who get more rewards...

(Reply is to @steemitblog not you @knircky )

71 recognize another 71 my equal rep nigga

It's important to note that it is unknown how much of the new available downvote pool will be used, and that it will also change whether good creators earn more. Thus it's hard to state exactly at what level people will earn more versus less after the fork.

But it is a fair concern that this will harm small communities and things like positive curation on comments.

But it is a fair concern that this will harm small communities and things like positive curation on comments.

This is precisely my concern with SFR but guess I can't really expect a group focused on our kind of values to be large. Think our prospect in particular is bleak unless we make some drastic adjustments.

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It's important to note that it is unknown how much of the new available downvote pool will be used

...and where do you see, within this page, which is supposed to be an open debate (debate means all points of view should have the opportunity to argue their beliefs) comments that deserve downvoting?

Since it has happened, it means we are supposed to feel intimidated and shut up?

That is the new steemit?

There are plenty of comments that may deserve downvoting to remove rewards. Especially when it is low effort trolling, or just plain negativity. Then I think any stakeholder who cares for the platform and experience of the users who add value to Steem should downvote it to remove rewards and make sure it is instead returned to those to bring value.

That being said, I'm completely against big stakeholders being able to hide comments through downvotes, and think that part of steemit is not doing any good. Lastly, I don't know why people would be afraid to comment because of downvotes. It is not like not earning anything on a comment makes you lose something?

In any case, the main use for downvotes will be the many self voters and abusers who look to get away with voting on spammed low effort content/comments. Of which there are plenty.

I asked you specifically about comments here, in this discussion.
As for calling it trolling or negative...isn't that a matter of opinion? If I disagree with you, I am being negative or am trolling? Even if a number of other posters consider the points made valid and they reward the poster?

It sounds to me like a disrespect of others, since you are indirectly claiming that only your own opinion is valid and deserving of being upvoted.

It's indeed all subjective and downvotes are not meant to be anything other than the opposite of an upvote where token holders express their opinion on what deserves more attention versus less.

It doesn't have to be trolling or negative. For instance, when @knircky just gave a full downvote to my comment I'm sure it mostly reflects his desire to see criticism of the fork get more attention and rewards, and thus downvote anything else above it that he disagrees with. That is fine, and how the curation system is intended to work.

I don't know if he's aware of the fact that I completely agree with his concerns though, and that my positive comment was not there to speak in favor of the fork, but rather to state that regardless of it we need more stake being used to vote good content and retain users, and that the changed rules whether you like them or hate them is a chance to reset bad habits and try to do things better.

For instance, when @knircky just gave a full downvote to my comment I'm sure it mostly reflects his desire to see criticism of the fork get more attention and rewards

Yes... but then you Upvoted your own post .... after the downvote to Protect your investment in your post as well as your Rewards on your own Post.

While also writing this:

...the main use for downvotes will be the many self voters

  ·  26 days ago (edited)

I see several comments which are over-rewarded mostly due to self-voting (I already downvoted one at my own expense since there are no free downvotes yet, and I may downvote others if I see them too). It isn't that the comments are bad necessarily, but when some people see the reward pool as a personal feeding trough the result is that everyone suffers from it.

Yea this is horrible

I couldn't agree more.

  ·  26 days ago (edited)

It basically boils down to: If you are smaller than an orca, move your stake and posts to a Scot tribe or start using bid bots like crazy.

The market doesn't like this HF. Most users won't like this HF. This HF is basically a HF for the bid bot owners and whales and orcas who like to have fun waging flag wars.

Steemit has been fun while it lasted, guess its time to move our minnow/dolphin stake to #creativecoin and other scot tribes.

nahhh no no steem has to reward the whales orcas etc, they will bring the price higher

let them have flag wars they will be forced to buy more steem to fight each other, EVENTUALLY two political parties at opposing ends of a spectrum will get into a war on steem where each will go to their fundraising elements on each side back and forth untill we basically have the RNC and DNC both on steem :D Or maybe Indian or European political parties or West African might end up in a battle with SP on steem when we end up with people who may end up with millions to spend on marketing or campaigns... I am telling you, all it takes is that right investor and steem can spread like wild fire... some wealthy people REALLY enjoy crypto and the whole key thing is just more fun for them!

Reply to #knircky

Your comment was put forward by many of us when we were first asked about these changes. Those who make the decisions wasted our time, since they had no interest in listening to what the majority wish is; they married the naivety of coders to that of socialists and insisted curators (only) provide value, not the creators. As a matter of fact, if you can access those older posts, you will see discussions about the 50/50 not being fair to curators, but they cannot do it in one change as too many people will leave - so in the next HF they can change it to what it should be: 80% curators and 20% creators.

What is insulting is that we are told we , the creators, will earn more money because we are receiving a smaller slice of the pie. Listening to them, I felt like I was listening to the supremos of illogical logic, like certain leftist politicians in the USA.

I'll be honest, I've never drawn a cent to use outside Steemit; only drawn some smallish amounts to help Steemit charities and needy newcomers who could not post because of no SP. So I am not one of those who has been milking the system (which mostly the big accounts are doing, and that includes witnesses). Yet, because I do not agree with them, I am the enemy and they have already started flagging - not because of content, or scamming or plagiarising. No, just because I disagreed with them. That is a very strong signal and I cannot ignore it.

As a final point: We will become rich because our sP will become worth more, if Steem appreciates, not because of our SP growing in Steem size. So, if someone has 100 SP, they will become whales because Steem may become worth $8 each, but the SP will only stay at 100 or, if it grows, it will grow so slowly that we'll all be dead before we can enjoy the huge wealth it is supposed we will accumulate.

Nobody seems to have noticed that at least half or more of steemians are now on other Steem related platforms and as things get worse for them here, they will concentrate on using the ones where they are still able to express an opinion without being flagged, while also earning money.

Oh dear - did anyone notice the arrogant statement by #tytran ?

They can sell if they want now and waste their steem on a few dollars of food , when they could have held their savings.

So, needing food is an option we should not give in to, not if it means we can save for some future profits...which will be taken from us under some new HF...

As a matter of fact, if you can access those older posts

Oh no @arthur.grafo. You actually can access and read a good deal of those older posts and discussions summarized just doing click here. :)

I have no problem accessing them, I use SteemWorld - but thanks.

Anyway, I would not want summarised copy - creating a summary means someone judges what should be shown and what can be thrown out. I prefer to see the original and make those decisions myself.

I prefer to see the original and make those decisions myself.

erm... by chance, did you even dare to click on the link offered to find out that all the 'originals' already comes inside?

Then why tell me they are summaries? Summaries are NEVER the original, they are just what someone understood or his way of sorting out what they like or dislike.

As for daring...what the hell has that got to do with anything? My reason for not examining them is very clear - and you pretending it is not so, shows you are playing a game of your own, because facing the truth is not something you like to do.

PLUS, I mentioned a specific message exchanged between two people and my comment was meant to indicate I hope that person is able to find the old messages so as to see that I was not making it up, that it was actually said - so again, since I am claiming a certain something was said and suggesting that anyone who doubts it, that they return to read those messages...for some unintelligable reason, you immediately think you can play a power game by making me look ineffective and not daring to go view the message I spoke of?

All I can find in your messages is a certain large blank gap in your intellectual abilities - and it is such a pity you did not have the common sense to keep your mouth shut so that you do not expose your deficiency to the entire world.

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Creating content does not create value.

There is already a shit ton of content on this blockchain and how much value has been created?

In fact the value has rather declined by 99% and with it the ability to pay rewards to anyone regardless of whether or not these changes are made.

It is vital the we start directing rewards better toward realizable value creation. Not self-voting, and not content for content's sake. This hard fork is a step to aid the system in that direction, but cultural and behavioural changes are needed too.

An empty blockchain is a clean and efficient blockchain!
Maybe next HF, they could completely remove all content-creation? Just to keep the place free of spam, of course.

Better, value-adding content > no content.

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genious memes by @freebornangel

Aw, shucks,....thanks.

shucks?

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I guess yo expect too much from me

Huh?

You are great, thanks for giving me the shout out.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/colloquialism

You are doing better in english than I can in deutsch.

Ah yea, I just got it 10 seconds after I've sent the comment :D

Dachte nur das wäre schon wieder irgendein politischer Fachbegriff..^^

I HAVE POSTED THIS REPLY AS IT IS- @luegenbaron

Sorry for not asking you first. But this is too good NOT to propogate-

I'm glad to see you explaining the basics of the hardfork in this format, something that was lacking before HF20.

I also noticed a surge in media coverage of Steem in anticipation of this - nice work!

@steemitblog, I'd like you to read and consider this post: https://steemit.com/@arseniclullaby/arsenic-lullaby-rant-everytime-these-guys-open-thier-mouths-the-price-of-steem-drops

Though it is lacking, um, tact, it tells of a serious missed opportunity when it comes to marketing Steem. Most users aren't that interested in nuts and bolts. We're interested in what people do on Steem. You don't have to be the mainstream to appeal to the mainstream, you just have to leverage those of us who are.

But don't take one of Steem's best content creators' word for it, take a lesson from those who focus on building communities rather than blockchains. Read 11 Rules for Creating Value in the Social Era by Nilofer Merchant or The Art of Community: Seven Principles for Belonging by Charles Vogl

This place has so much potential; let's do this!

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