Vaccination & Corruption - A Steemit Survey!

in health •  last year

A fascinating informal survey of Steemian opinions on the vaccination of children and corruption. It was collated after 2 days from the discussion of my post about child vaccinations in Australia.

The results are intriguing!

Below I have also provided further information on Pharmaceutical Industry corruption which I feel is relevant to this discussion.

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Image Credit Pixabay

Steemian Poll:

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Graph courtesy of JSFIDDLE

Some interesting statistics on the vaccination discussion after 2 days:

  • Number of votes: 75

  • Number of individual commenters: 34

  • Number of posts (excluding mine): 99

These results were taken after 2 days and present only a snapshot!

My original post - Children Vaccinated At Birth For Hepatitis B In Australia! Why? :

https://steemit.com/health/@jockey/children-vaccinated-at-birth-for-hepatitis-b-in-australia#@wyzz2020/re-jockey-children-vaccinated-at-birth-for-hepatitis-b-in-australia-20170701t150643372z

I wish to thank everyone for passionate yet respectful comments on this spicy subject!

Go Steemians! =)

I believe open and frank discussion is positive for us all! In my original post I attempted to pose only questions and not make statements about this controversial topic.

I took the time to read each response and follow leads to further information as they arose. I also tried to respond to each post and ask questions when possible.

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Trends From The Discussion

It seems clear from reading the comments and looking at the statistics that the majority of posters were adamantly anti-vaccination (25 Steemians or 73.5%). Some of the points they raised and the links they provided to further information were very informative and definitely worth reading!

That is not to say that there weren't those who were undecided or pro-vaccination. The pro-vaccination camp held equally strong convictions and consisted of 3 Steemians, 2 of which took significant time to respond to comments. One had even written a pro-vaccination post of his own.

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Image Credit Pixabay

The Argument For Herd Immunity - Does It Make Sense?

A particularly interesting pro-vaccination argument was raised regarding unvaccinated children harming "Herd Immunity". If you type this term into Google the definition you get is:

"The resistance to the spread of a contagious disease within a population that results if a sufficiently high proportion of individuals are immune to the disease, especially through vaccination. The level of vaccination needed to achieve herd immunity varies by disease but ranges from 83 to 94 percent"

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Images thanks to @theaustrianguy

This pro-vaccination argument peaked my interest as it seems to describe a contained population. However Australia is not contained. Australia's current population stands at 23.78 million and Australia currently receives 8.46 million visitors per year. Australia does not require vaccinations to visit and does not vaccinate people on arrival.

How does a yearly influx of potentially unvaccinated people (equivalent to almost 30% of the population) impact Herd Immunity?

Does this negate the Herd Immunity argument or should Australia vaccinate all visitors on arrival to maintain Herd Immunity? It would devastate tourism if they did! As a comparison animals are quarantined when entering Australia to manage biosecurity risks.

None of the pro-vaccination commenters had an answer to this question and I would be very interested in hearing from anyone who does in the comments below! =)

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Big Pharma & Corruption

The roots of the answer to the question "are vaccinations helpful or harmful to our children" can be found in another question: "how corrupt is Big Pharma?"

This subject was only briefly addressed by the pro-vaccination camp and when it was the view appeared to be that corruption was negligible and historic.

My personal participation in the corruption of 300 Doctors by one of the world's largest Pharmaceutical company's with the tacit participation of the Government made me sick (pun intended). That experience irrevocably changed my perspective. Here is the link to the post describing my experiences:

https://steemit.com/life/@jockey/my-partricipation-in-corruption-of-the-medical-industry

I leave it to the reader to do their own research and decide for themselves how corrupt Big Pharma is and how that potentially impacts the information we and our Doctors are given regarding the safety of vaccinations.

The fact is huge profits are made by the pharmaceutical companies through sales of vaccinations and those profits provide an incentive for corruption and secrecy!

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Settlements On Corruption Cases - USD $19.755 Billion In 13 Years!

Wikipedia's list of the largest pharmaceutical settlements for misconduct in the USA is enlightening. The list totals 22 settlements for corruption cases in just 13 years for a combined settlement total of a whopping USD $19.755 Billion! Bear in mind this figure does not include the enormous costs of defending these cases in court.

Do these companies appear trustworthy to you?

Do you believe them when they tell you they have the health interests of the public at heart?

As pharmaceutical companies continue to make vast profits the USD $19.755 Billion in fines for corruption are clearly considered just part of the cost of doing business!

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3 Of The Largest Pharmaceutical Corruption Fines

  • GlaxoSmithKline - 2012 - USD $3 Billion - Off-label promotion, failure to disclose safety data, kickbacks to physicians, making false and misleading statements

GlaxoSmithKline agreed to pay a fine of $3 billion to resolve civil and criminal liabilities regarding its promotion of drugs, as well as its failure to report safety data. This is the largest health care fraud settlement in the United States to date. The company pled guilty to misbranding the drug Paxil for treating depression in patients under 18, even though the drug had never been approved for that age group. GlaxoSmithKline also pled guilty to failing to disclose safety information about the diabetes drug Avandia to the FDA.
Source

  • Pfizer - 2009 - USD $2.3 Billion - Off-label promotion/kickbacks

Pfizer was fined $2.3 billion, then the largest health care fraud settlement and the largest criminal fine ever imposed in the United States. Pfizer pled guilty to misbranding the painkiller Bextra with "the intent to defraud or mislead", promoting the drug to treat acute pain at dosages the FDA had previously deemed dangerously high. Bextra was pulled from the market in 2005 due to safety concerns. The government alleged that Pfizer also promoted three other drugs illegally: the antipsychotic Geodon, an antibiotic Zyvox, and the antiepileptic drug Lyrica.
Source

  • Johnson & Johnson - 2013 - USD $2.2 Billion - Off-label promotion/kickbacks

Johnson & Johnson agreed to pay a $2.2 billion fine to resolve criminal and civil allegations relating to the prescription drugs Risperdal, Invega and Natrecor. The government alleged that J&J promoted these drugs for uses not approved as safe and effective by the FDA, targeted elderly dementia patients in nursing homes, and paid kickbacks to physicians and to the nation’s largest long-term care pharmacy provider, Omnicare Inc. As part of the agreement, Johnson & Johnson admitted that it promoted Risperdal for treatment of psychotic symptoms in non-schizophrenic patients, although the drug was approved only to treat schizophrenia.
Source

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My Favorite Punchy Quotes From The Debate On My Post:

There were a plethora of excellent comments and it is worth reading through them!

  • Anti-Vaccine

@canadian-coconut
"My response is that I'm not going to Light My Child on Fire because you think that it will keep your child warm. NO WAY!"

  • Undecided

@karensuestudios
"Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I have actually not thought about the intention behind why it is required to get vaccinated. I always just assumed it was "because it's good for you," but greed and money from the government could very will push for vaccinations. I like articles that give me food for thought to think more before just assuming things are just face value. So THANK YOU!"

  • Pro-Vaccine

@theaustrianguy
"Take vaccines as an example. I know a lot of doctors and grew up with many kids whos parents were doctors. They all got vaccinated. Do you think those parents would willingly harm their kids?
Some may love money. But I dont' think any loved money more than their own blood.
And I also have not seen any serious side-effects in all of those kids.
With my knowledge up to date I also would vaccine my own kids!"

The Jockey loves you all... ;-)

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I wish to express my gratitude to the following Steemians for their passionate contributions to this interesting and important discussion:

@canadian-coconut @teamsteem @themorningstar @samstonehill @misslasvegas @isabellablue @shlomokikestein @jzeek @whatamidoing @michael-kahunka @jupiter5 @uruiamme @carodebali @ambedextrous @oceansoul13 @themorningstar @realitycheck @gwiss @andrewlarson @jmehta @theblindsquirl @nataralcures @off-the-grid @weetreebonsai @wyzz2020 @bolang @nrajesh @karensuestudios @randowhale @jonuzi @delvamaynardreid @theaustrainguy @john1981 @synapse

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First of all I like how you are trying to stay neutral in all of this and are really opening a round for discussions.

Yes there probably is a lot of corruption in pharmaceutical industry... as is in ANY big industry.
Alternative medicine for example in my opinion mostly is just a lot of expensive placebo going on (even though I'm not denying that it can really help people).
There's a huge industry pushing organic products, as there is a huge industry wanting to sell their sugary junk.

Personally I really believe that vaccinations are one of the (if not THE) most important accomplishments of modern medicine today. Sicknesses that have killed millions of people througout centuries are nowadays so negligible in most industrial nations that people start wondering if they ever really meant any harm.

Just think about what would generate more profit for the pharmaceutical industry? A shot that costs maybe 100$ or a real sickness that could potentially make you stay in the hospital for weeks to go.

I haven't met a doctor yet who was trying to stop me from getting any vaccination. None of my friends or fellow students (many of whom have a doctor or even someone in the pharmaceutical industry as a parent) have not had their shots. It's one thing to consciously poison strangers for money, but who would ever do that to their own flesh and blood?

Concerning your question about herd immunity and tourists visiting Australia I believe even though there's not a obligation to have those shots, most of the tourists coming to your country probably are vaccinated. Anti-vaxxers are (in my opinion luckily) still a minority group in industrial nations and most people who are coming from a poorer country probably won't be able to afford a trip to Australia.

Sadly enough I really feel this is a luxury problem we seem to be able to afford nowadays. Since there aren't many people dieing from any of those ilnesses anymore people seem to forget they exist and can pose a real danger.

And as I said. There certainly is corruption in the pharmaceutical industry. Some firms are responsible for a lot of addiction and deaths that have happened for sure... but on the other side there's also a lot of people on the alternative side making profit of peoples fears and killing them by offering them a pseudotherapy. I just like to believe that most of the doctors, scientists, employees and self employed people are doing there best to safe or improve lifes and not to harm them.

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Thank you for your reply! I believe we need a neutral place to discuss this spicy subject. =)

I believe the statistics I stated in my post about the almost 20 Billion of dollars of fines that the Pharmaceutical companies have had to pay for fraud in the last 13 years in the USA alone prove that corruption IS happening within our medical system.

As far as Herd Immunity is concerned with a tourist volume of almost 30% of Australia's population arriving as visitors in Australia each year - I have to say that I often enter Australia and see that people are arriving from all over the world. Australia has no information on the vaccination information on these people. If this was a significant problem then surely Australia would tighten its laws - currently I see huge pressure on Australia's internal population but no mention or consideration for the 8+ million people arriving into Australia each year. Once again I am not sure that the narrative we are being sold is the truth.

I study natural healing and I personally can vouch for the powerful nature of herbs. I grow them and use them on myself, my friends and family along with my animals. They work and are the foundation of all our traditional medicine.

Thank you again for your post your comments they were very interesting!

Upvoted and followed! =)

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Thank you for your reply!

Upvoted and followed! =)

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A doctor talking about the false sense of security based on herd immunity:

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Thank you very much for this link I will watch it!

Upvoted and followed! =)

I personally do not agree too much vaccination from child birth, as many has mentioned, the immune system is not there yet. I personally went through 4 vaccination in my life time, once as a baby.
BCG (TB) during todler's time, 12 years old.
Rubella (CRS) at the age of 13 / 14.
And once for chicken pox when I have to study in Austrialia.
So I think the rest is more of how to take care of the child, and breast feeding is essential for the child to have his/her first dose of "vaccination" because the breast milk is the best source.

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Thank you for your post! I agree with you! =)

Great name!

Cheers! =)

I'm really pleased that Steemit is becoming a place where people can freely expose the giant con that is the vaccination racket.

Hopefully as more people learn about all the side effects such as autism and cancer, they will become more open to learning the really scary stuff.

Firstly that vaccines don't work at all, and secondly that the real aims of them are to kill populations for eugenics purposes and to sicken people for more sickness industry profits...

http://www.frot.co.nz/design/health/vaccination/

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What an excellent reply! Thank you for the graphs!

I have to say I intuitively agree with what you are saying. Even looking into the United Nation's Agenda 21 is very frightening.

I will research these graphs closely!

Followed and upvoted! =)

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And the other big aspect to all this is what probiotics the baby or child has in their system.

Children born by cesarean section or ever having had antibiotics (including through the mother) have none, so are first in line to develop conditions like asthma and autism if injected with a bunch of dangerous toxins.

http://www.drperlmutter.com/about/brain-maker-by-david-perlmutter-md/

Have you considered doing a poll about vaccines and regulation?

I'm pro-vaccine but NOT pro-mandatory vaccine. I think mandatory vaccinations are a violation of individual rights.

I wonder if that was a confounding variable I your informal survey? Those results seem very unusual, even in a pro- liberty place like this.

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Everybody is pushing an agenda these days... follow the money, very few give a shit about saving lives

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Especially this prick!

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Aye Aye Capitano! Agreed! =)

Upvoted!

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It seems that way to me too ... =( Thank you for your comment!

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Thanks for taking the time to write a response. I took my survey purely from the responses to my last post. I am also pro choice! =)

I think you will enjoy my previous posts on:

Vaccinations in Australia:
https://steemit.com/health/@jockey/children-vaccinated-at-birth-for-hepatitis-b-in-australia

My participation in medical corruption:
https://steemit.com/life/@jockey/my-partricipation-in-corruption-of-the-medical-industry

I'm not ready to say no on all vaccines but I do believe that corruption and possible conspiracies are causing an over vaccination of our population and a compromise on our freedoms and liberties. Just a small example, the last tetanus shot I got came with whooping cough vaccine. I had no choice in the matter.

I worked for big pharma for 26 years but never really bought into there meme. I choose natural methods over chemicals every time. I believe pharmaceuticals and vaccinations played their part at one time to help humanity but I no longer believe that is the case and it is more about profits now. I saw the changes take place over my career and watched our leadership change from MDs to lawyers and and the focus of our company change from helping mankind to making a profit.

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What interesting insights! Thank you for taking the time to write them! I agree with the natural healing and study herb lore. I believe that the examples I gave of the multi billion dollar settlements for court cases involving corruption show that there are conspiracies - after all a conspiracy is just 2 people colluding together!

Great name upvoted and followed! =)

I think you will enjoy my previous posts on:

Vaccinations in Australia:
https://steemit.com/health/@jockey/children-vaccinated-at-birth-for-hepatitis-b-in-australia

My participation in medical corruption:
https://steemit.com/life/@jockey/my-partricipation-in-corruption-of-the-medical-industry

Upvoted and resteemed :o)

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Thank you mate! =)

Thanks for the mention. It was an intriguing discussion! One of the few that I had the chance to participate here on steemit.

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I enjoyed it too.... I feel the results were very interesting too! =)

Thank you for sharing the results with us all!

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You are most welcome! =)

Extremely interesting results. I must have somehow missed the original survey (otherwise I would have taken part) but thank you for providing a valuable insight into the views of the steemit community on this subject. Upvoted and resteemed

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Thank you very much! I did not announce a survey. I just counted and collated the responses to my previous post! Perhaps I should announce another survey! LOL!

I think you will enjoy my previous posts on:

Vaccinations in Australia:
https://steemit.com/health/@jockey/children-vaccinated-at-birth-for-hepatitis-b-in-australia

My participation in medical corruption:
https://steemit.com/life/@jockey/my-partricipation-in-corruption-of-the-medical-industry

Cheers! =)

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Definitely, I think another survey would be very beneficial to this community. Thanks, I'll take a look at those.

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I agree I will try to instigate some further surveys! Thank you! =)

Vaccinating children before testing for genetic propensity towards autoimmune and organ (including brain) disorders is nothing short of idiotic. Vaccines are not one size fits all! I even submit that adults should be tested before getting vaccines i.e. military, law enforcement, medical and emergency personnel. They are forced to vaccinate without even knowing if these shots will stimulate an underlying disorder such as Ankylosing Spondylitis, MS, Lupus, Alzheimers, etc. Any trauma or medicine that kick-starts the immune system can be the catalyst to a flare-up of a condition you werent even aware you had....just my 2 cents while I sit at a stoplight....

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Here's a gov't paper that says the same thing basically, with a focus on AS:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/325206

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Thank you I will look into this! =)

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That is a very relevant response! Thank you! =)

Way to collect some interesting data and well done!

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Thank you I collected the data from my previous post on vaccinations in Australia!

I think you will enjoy my previous posts on:

Vaccinations in Australia:
https://steemit.com/health/@jockey/children-vaccinated-at-birth-for-hepatitis-b-in-australia

My participation in medical corruption:
https://steemit.com/life/@jockey/my-partricipation-in-corruption-of-the-medical-industry

Great name! Followed!

=)

There is herd immunity when people get exposed to the wild type virus/bacteria . Vaccines contain non wild type viruses/bacteria which can kill, and also "shed" / spread to other people causing sickness/death which is why breakouts of diseases are in the vaccinated populations though the media lies, and blames people who were never vaccinated even though in Australia 90-95% of the population is vaccinated.

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How interesting thank you for taking the time to write a reply! I will look into this!

I think you will enjoy my previous posts on:

Vaccinations in Australia:
https://steemit.com/health/@jockey/children-vaccinated-at-birth-for-hepatitis-b-in-australia

My participation in medical corruption:
https://steemit.com/life/@jockey/my-partricipation-in-corruption-of-the-medical-industry

Cheers! =)

So do I ! Thanks for sharing.

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You are welcome! =)

I think you will enjoy my previous posts on:

Vaccinations in Australia:
https://steemit.com/health/@jockey/children-vaccinated-at-birth-for-hepatitis-b-in-australia

My participation in medical corruption:
https://steemit.com/life/@jockey/my-partricipation-in-corruption-of-the-medical-industry

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Great posts indeed.

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Thank you so much it means a lot to me! =)

I have enjoyed being part of this broader discussion. Look forward to more.

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Great thank you John! Your input provided an invaluable counterpoint! Looking forward to your future participation!

Cheers! =)

Gosh I missed it!!! 😞...Let me congratulate you on this successful Event and Survey. I would like to have a Comment but as the event is closed I prefer to write it here( with your permission). I suppose there should have been 4th option in the survey, Pro-Vaccination but Generic Vaccines.
The Vaccination is very important for the well being of a child in long run. It provides a circle of Protection around Child from various deadly diseases and some Other disorders which tend to disintegrate our body parts like Limbs(Polio).
I would like to respond to the quote of a parent @canadian-coconut ...With Regards, This quote would have been suitable if written some 1 or 2 centuries ago. But right now there are so many viruses, harmful organisms right at the bottom of our nose that we have to take Vaccination as our only hope against them...Bitter Truth( I wish there was a way around). "You don't need to light up your child to get warmth but keep in close proximity of fire to protect your child from the Deadly horrors of Winter and whatever comes with it."
I would like to address some Vaccination fears here which they(Anti-Vaccine Voters) might have heard and so have thought against Vaccination. Vaccines contains Antibodies in the form of Immunoglobulins(Ig) but sometimes do contain merely a part of virus like a strain or full virus BUT IN ITS INACTIVE FORM i.e, EITHER DEAD OR NOT ABLE TO REPLICATE(GROW). This Dead Virus will activates the innate immunity of the body which considers this virus as foreign body and and destroys it while creating memory cells against it. These memory cells have a different life span...some have 6 months while some have full lifespan of human. That is the reason we need booster shots after 6 months. So when this virus(live one) again comes into the body, memory cell identifies it and renders the body defenses to become Alert and thus defeating the virus(most of the time).
Coming to the point, Vaccination is important for the prevention of certian diseases and disorders. Although, if a country is 100% free from virus, it always carries a threat from visitors from tourists travelling to its nation and there is no question of Vaccinating tourists which is disastrous for Tourist Company of nation. So it is better to be on precautionary side.
Now coming to the corruption of big gaint pharma companies with the Govt. There are always Some Companies which not only looks at the benefit of its company product but also keeps in mind the gain of general masses. However, the number is very small. It is the Govt. (agree with you) that is responsible for bringing those companies on board which are not aimed at the public benefits. But tend to deepen their own pockets. That is the Thing we have to change although it requires the system to change...Not so Easy job.
But there is no point of going against Vaccination which primarily was aimed at general public's benefit. However, it is need of hour to look for the Corrupt pharma Companies which i am afraid is major portion of Pharma Companies now a days and have a proper channelized agitation against them.

Thanks for being a patient reader.

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Thank you for your lengthy and passionate reply! I appreciate it!

The survey I made was just an informal one based on the responses to my previous post. It is in no way official.

Fundamentally I am in favour of freedom of choice. If our actions are dictated by the Government then we live in a dictatorship. Most people want the best for their children and communities... With improved education we can make informed choices together.

Let liberation through decentralization be the cry! =)

Thanks again for taking the time to write such a lengthy comment!

Upvoted!

Cheers! =)

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Did you read all of it?...i believe not...lol thx fr upvote

Great even handed presentation jockey!

I will admit I was surprised at the proportion of those opposed to vaccination.

However, more and more I am finding that those who see danger in centrally organized systems see that danger in all centrally organized systems, whether we are talking about the economy or healthcare, so perhaps I shouldn't be surprised.

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Thank you very much! I tried to pose questions not make statements. I agree with your opinion. I really enjoyed your comments to my previous post! =)

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It's a good topic!

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Agreed! I really enjoyed the way you made your point... best yet mate! =)

Great post. 19.75 Billion in the past 13 years is a staggering number, but I am not surprised. I'm glad you mentioned Risperdal. That was one of the main cases my wife worked on and will be discussed in an upcoming post.

You can call me undecided when it comes to vaccines. I feel incredible social pressure to conform and not ask questions, and that always sends red flags that maybe I should do more research before coming to a conclusion.

Very interesting poll results. It's clear that conform/shame culture does not pervade here on Steemit as it does on Facebook and Reddit.

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Thank you for your comment! If your heart and mind raise red flags it is time to start researching. I am looking forward to your post!

Great name!

Followed and upvoted! =)

I know that big pharma is very corrupt, but I still am unsure about vaccinations. With the knowledge I have now I would still most likely get my children vaccinated.

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Through open and frank discussion we learn. Knowledge and freedom of choice are invaluable. I think you will enjoy my previous posts on:

Vaccinations in Australia:
https://steemit.com/health/@jockey/children-vaccinated-at-birth-for-hepatitis-b-in-australia

My participation in medical corruption:
https://steemit.com/life/@jockey/my-partricipation-in-corruption-of-the-medical-industry

Cheers! =)

Thank you @jockey for the mention :) It's good to see different minds hard at work and have civilised discussions. I think I must have missed the poll? Or did I not understand it right. But anyway: you'd know my answer. :) Looking forward to read more of your awesome posts.

After having watched the documentary series, The Truth About Cancer and other such documentaries, I'm convinced that big pharma is only interested in money and not your welfare. They have corrupted the entire western world's healthcare system and until we understand this, many more will suffer unnecessarily. As far as vaccines go, I suppose there could be some merit in the idea behind vaccines, but the adjuvants used could be causing more harm than good. Much more testing needs to be done prior to the release of new vaccines. Personally, I don't trust them.

Great post again!!

Just look at the actions of the pharmaceutical companies as a result of being granted immunity from prosecution because of a vaccine injury.

They are busy developing a whopping 250 more vaccines to force on you!

After 20+ years practicing medicine I am ANTI-VACCINE!!