# The Flat Earth Map is Actually a Globe

in #flatearth3 years ago (edited)

In a previous article we discuss the Bizarre Resurgence of People Who Believe the Earth is Flat, mainly based on the concept that the earth SEEMS flat, and therefore it is!

While they employ a bit of logic and reason at the beginning in their questioning of the round earth, they seem to lose all objectivity, logic, and scientific reasoning in their complete rejection of a round earth and subsequent adoption of the flat earth as their model of reality even though a flat earth model is a glaringly, incredibly worse model of reality than is a globe earth model, as we show on the page mentioned above.

As discussed, they end up building new theory on top of theory in order to overcome the shortcomings of each new explanation as to why their model is an obvious failure on its face. This ends up building a model of flat earth that more resembles a Rube Goldberg machine than a working viable model of reality.

At the very foundation of this Rube Goldberg model is, as might be expected, a map. And, as would be expected, this map is, well, of their depiction of flat earth. However, their foundational model falls apart immediately at first glance once one realizes not only the glaring errors in this basic map, but the fact that it’s not even a flat earth map at all, but that it’s actually a map of the GLOBE!

## The Incredibly Preposterous Idea of Basing Your Flat Earth Model on a Globe Earth

In another article, we go into the Glaringly Obvious problems with the Flat Earth Map, but here we’ll mention just two of these problems and why they are significant. These two problems are that the flat earth map shows Antarctica, not as a southern polar continent, but as an ice rim that would need to be approximately 100,000 km in circumference. Another problem is that their map has the actual distances between points on earth become more and more incorrect the further away from the north pole you go and the closer to the ‘ice rim’ that you go.

These errors cannot be overcome. We KNOW that Antarctica is a southern polar continent that is approximately 14,000 miles in circumference, while their 'continent' shows a circumference of what would be approximately 62,000 miles; and we KNOW distances between major cities on earth, of which these distances are often 3-5 times larger on the flat earth map. However, it’s not the errors themselves that are so damning of the flat earth argument for the purposes of this article, but the reason WHY these errors occur on their map.

The reason these errors are present on a flat earth map is because their map is not a map of flat earth, but is actually an Azimuthal Projection Map based on a globe earth! What’s stupendously incredible is that flat earthers do not even seem to NOTICE that this is the case. Instead, they maintain that their map is a map of current reality! Or, in some cases, they just claim they do not ‘accept any one model’, but this is a complete logical ‘cop out’. They DO accept a model, it’s a model of flat earth! If they have any ability to understand science or logic, you cannot have rejected one model for another without first having a model to accept! And in the thousands of years of people hypothesizing a flat earth, the best model they can come up with is based on a globe!

## The ‘Flat Earth’ Map is Just an Azimuthal Projection Map of a Globe!

Since the very beginning of mapmaking on the sphere that we live on, sailors have always realized the problem of mapping the earth properly. Two great advancements in mapmaking were the realization that the earth is a sphere, and the subsequent ability to map both longitude and latitude onto this sphere.

In thousands of years of flat earth thought
the best map the best flat earth minds have
been able to come up with is an
Azimuthal Projection map of a globe!

But the problems of mapping a 3 dimensional sphere onto a two dimensional map has always been a significant problem, distorting the size of many countries and thus making distances incorrect. But, since it’s easier to relay information via two dimensional models, humans have been attempting to come up with the best model possible in order to transmit this information as accurately as possible in books, atlases, and maps. While some of these models work better than others, the fact remains that all of them have significant errors.

Enter the Azimuthal Projection Map. This type of map is one way of visualizing a globe earth on paper. It is done in a similar way that one might peel an orange if you were to leave the top intact and peel the rest of the orange peel so that the peel could be laid flat on a surface. What you’d have is a ‘map’ with the North Pole as a circle in the center and the South Pole in pieces at the ‘tips’ of all the peels. In order to make this look more like a map, one would take the empty spaces between the peels and fill them in with something, either ocean or continent, so that there were not a bunch of empty spaces.

If you did this exact same procedure with a globe and were able to ‘peel’ the globe ‘map’ off of the globe itself and lie the paper flat, what you’d have is approximately an Azimuthal Projection Map. The advantage of an Azimuthal Projection Map is that you can have all the correct latitudes and longitudes, although the DISTANCES between those points will not, necessarily, be accurate. But it’s a useful model for visualizing the earth... a spherical earth.

## The Hilarious Secret About the Flat Earth Map

But back to the flat earth map. The map that flat earthers accept as a model of REALITY of life on earth and use as a 'model' for all of their thought experiments and graphic models, is merely an Azimuthal Projection Map! If you cannot see the incredible hilarious irony of this fact, I’ll explain it in more detail. Flat earthers REJECT a round earth, and claim that the earth is flat. Yet in thousands of years of belief in flat earth, despite knowing virtually EVERY distance between points on the planet, despite almost every one of these points having a known GPS coordinate such that even children can engage in playing an adventure game called ‘Geocaching’ where people will place specific items at specific GPS points around the earth and people use GPS to find these items, the BEST model of reality that flat earthers can come up with… is based on a GLOBE!!!

To make this even more hilarious, they also claim, as we mentioned previously, that the UN patrols all 60,0000 of the ‘ice rim’ of Antarctica in order to keep people from discovering the truth that the earth is flat. As evidence of this conspiracy and deception, they point to the symbol of the UN, and say that the UN uses a flat earth map as their symbol as a sort of 'hiding it in plain site' joke on humanity.

But what flat earthers MUST not be able to recognize, is that it’s not that the symbol of the UN is a flat earth, but that THEIR map is an Azimuthal Projection Map, as is the UN Symbol! Even the Wikipedia Entry for Azimuthal Projection Map uses both a current 'flat earth model' map and a UN symbol and describes them both as being examples of an azimuthal projection map! One can't take them seriously when Wikipedia even shows their flat earth map and calls it what it is.

This makes 100% of their thought experiments utterly and completely worthless because you cannot envision correct thought experiments using a model that is horribly flawed from the beginning. For instance, they hypothesize experiments of how the sun could rotate in the 'dome' above a flat earth to create the time zones that we see on earth. However, with distances horribly distorted, and New Zealand as big as the United States, it makes this thought experiment an exercise in eye-rolling hilarity on the many ways the thought experiment is fundamentally in error, rather than a proof of the feasibility of flat earth having the current time zones that it does.

The irony and hilarity of the flat earth model just keeps getting richer and richer the more you look into their ridiculous and hilarious claims that flat earth is reality, simply because it seems that way. Well, if you know anything at all, even their own MAP is not even a map of flat earth! That should tell you how incredibly untenable and ridiculous even the most basic of their claims are, and that these people should not be taken seriously when they can’t even produce the most basic of foundational models... without first using a globe!

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3 years ago (edited)

Well its only drawings. We believe in many theories, and over time the reality as we know it - changes.

Yes, reality as we know it changes... when we discover new science that causes us to question our beliefs. Then we do more science that confirms or denies this new science. However, flat earthers have done none of that. They just ignore the science and go by what they see and feel. When you show them that what they see and feel is wrong, they will just ignore it.

Case in point, the fact that the only map they've been able to produce in thousands of years of thought is a globe projected onto a flat surface.

I see you are worried that people dont believe the institutional science, and relying own their own instincts and logic.

3 years ago (edited)

No, I 'worry' that logic, reason, math, and science are going out the window in favor of people being too stupid or lazy to do their own research. And instead, they listen to gurus who tell them what to think, and play on their egos by telling them how smart they are for doing the exact opposite of everyone else.

If you were to read the first article I wrote, that I linked to in the first paragraph, you'll see that I praise anyone who questions the 'status quo' and any particular model. However, instead of doing science and testing hypotheses, because they have questions, they outright reject one model and adopt a FAR FAR worse model that in no way explains known reality because it 'sounds' good and makes them seem special, like they have 'secret' knowledge that no one else does, when they really just watched someone's lame YouTube video that simply did math and science totally incorrectly.

And when you give them actual proofs and science, they simply reject it outright in favor of conspiracy theories and claims of being special snowflakes because they do not believe the status quo.

its' like they believe they are special and superior SIMPLY because they don't believe what they were taught. It's like the antithesis of rational thought. They derive their belief, not because they are thinking, but because someone told them something and they simply reject it without looking into it at all for themselves!

They are not using 'their own instincts and logic', they are REJECTING logic entirely, and simply getting their info from gurus who play to their egos.

I wish that 99% would really understand physics and math. Most people just rely on what they told. (Gurus as you say).
Not every one that knows how to draw an equation on a board knows the truth.
I respect science, but also respect humanity and the great forces in the universe. I think its naive to believe that science has the answer.
For instance, do you know that there is no experiment on the affect of lemon water?
Do you know why?
Because there is lack of financial incentive to research the affect of natural ingredients on the human body.
So please be more open minded, and more ampiric, and dont believe unless you fully understand or at least sense and feel.
There is plenty of wisdom inside you.

3 years ago (edited)

By the way, literally two minutes of searching found pages and pages of studies on lemon juice!

Here's just a few:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022534706031211

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0090429507001823

https://bmcurol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2490-7-18

If you were to actually look and see what I do, I'm a Functional Medicine Practitioner and do all of my own medical research. I have found tens of thousands, or possibly hundreds of thousands of research studies on natural ingredients and diets and how they effect the human body. I've literally spent the last 8 years of my life reading these studies and writing to laypeople about the positive results of these studies.

That is just my point about flat earthers not doing their research. They listen to 'guru's' who tell them that they are 'special' because they get this super secret inside information that no one has ever researched.

All the while, there are tens of thousands of studies on it. But they just simply don't bother.

3 years ago (edited)

Who said that I deny the 'wisdom inside of us'? And how did you determine that I'm not 'open minded'? Wow, you are really jumping to conclusions based on nothing.

There also IS science that tells us the answer to things that are NOT empiric. To use 'empirics' and ignore science is not 'open minded' either. Especially since SCIENCE shows us that our senses can fool us. There are thousands upon thousands of optical illusions, and people performing 'magic' is a lucrative business for the very REASON that our 'wisdom inside of us' can be easily fooled.

However, when the 'wisdom inside us', for instance the SENSATION that we live on a still plane, is ENTIRELY disputed by thousands of years of scientific evidence that are repeatable and you are able to do many of them yourself to prove your senses incorrect... well, choosing the 'wisdom inside of you' over thousands of points of evidence is just denial of reality, and is in no way a measure of great intellect.

According to you, we should also believe that people get smaller as they get further away from us, despite 'institutionalized science', whatever that means, telling us that is not what happens. According to you, anyone who believes that people's size does not change greatly when they get far away is simply not being 'open minded'.

Here's a few optical illusions for you. Now tell me that your senses are foolproof. Go ahead, look at them and tell me that the 'wisdom inside of you' is always correct.

http://list25.com/25-incredible-optical-illusions/

3 years ago (edited)

I love the part you wrote - "According to you, we should also believe that people get smaller as they get further away from us"
Well you know thet we all know to tell sizes and distance by our inner algorithm.

Would it be possible that science is lying to you for the love of money?

Ummm, that I can look at the sky and know for a 100% fact that it's round from simple observations tells me know. It sounds like you are parroting what YouTubers say instead of actually gaining intelligence on how we have known with 100% certainty the earth is a globe for almost 2000 years now. And we have known with 100% certainty it's heliocentric since the invention of the telescope and the simple observation and measurement of stellar parallax.

and for the lust of control and domination maybe?

It is a disturbing disruptor meme set off by people with nefarious intentions to play on most people's lack of basic physics.

I suddenly started getting dozens of these mindless videos on Youtube some months ago.

There is one very simple proof against this stupidity - just before a lunar eclipse, we can see the shadow made by the curvature of the Earth. QED

The ancient Greeks wrote about this too - they couldn't explain it physically but they also could not argue against the geometry of it.

That's just the dome over the flat earth casting that shadow! On the moon....that is attached to the dome....uhhh...hmmmm.

There's also a scientific theory that says we are a 3D projection on a 2D surface. While they may be idiots we spend money on many things and we should not just mock them because some scientist get paid to come up with the darndest of theories.

That has zero to do with this topic. You missed the point entirely in favor of bringing up an unrelated and completely tangential subject.

Sorry, your post is wrong. (I don't mean to be offensive, but you failed in the first paragraph)

You didn't even touch on any of the flat earth's actual evidence.
You cleverly side stepped it all.

This kind of poor arguments makes me sad.

BTW: I do not believe in the flat earth model or the ball earth model.

3 years ago (edited)

Yet you did not provide any evidence that I'm wrong. Saying that the post is wrong, while not even saying WHY it's wrong is just a logical fallacy.

You're right, I did not touch on why the flat earth theory is incorrect, because that is NOT WHAT THIS POST IS ABOUT, and I referred you to one of my other posts that DOES show why it's incorrect.

THIS post is about how the flat earth map is actually an AZIMUTHAL PROJECTION MAP OF A GLOBE and how flat earthers are too stupid to even know it. If it were a post about the flat earth ARGUMENTS, and why their arguments are wrong, I would have discussed that. But it was not. It was about their MAP and nothing else, so why would I discuss why their ARGUMENTS are wrong on a post about their MAP? That is a strawman argument. Those kinds of poor arguments make ME sad.

So, please tell me what my post is incorrect about, particularly from the 'first paragraph'.

Please make an honest argument and specific about what is incorrect, or simply admit that it's not incorrect. That is how a 'good' argument actually works.

Take a look at your first paragraph.

To sum up:

That is a very bad way to start a discussion or an argument.

Further, you don't know how maps are made.
No map starts with a globe. They start with points. A list of latitudes and longitudes.
And these are plotted onto some kind of grid.
And there is all kinds of grids, each giving various results (with strengths and weaknesses)

3 years ago (edited)

LOL. You are horrible at debate. First of all, you missed the ENTIRE POINT about flat earth maps, and instead you are off on some crazy tangent about my writing skills not being to your satisfaction, while misquoting and misinterpreting what I said.

Second: I never used the word 'your' for 'you're' and I didn't say, "your stupid'. You have the right to interpret anything any way you wish, but to say that the CONTENT Of my post is incorrect, then critique my writing skills instead of stating where I am wrong is just illogical.

Third: It wasn't a documentary on how maps are MADE, but how THIS PARTICULAR map is DERIVED. It's DERIVED from a globe. Of course maps do not 'start as a globe', as if there is a machine that somehow 'presses' globes into flat shapes. The POINT was that, and it is correct to say so, that an Azimuthal Projection Map is DERIVED first, from a globe!

By critiquing my writing, then acting like I'm making a documentary about how maps are made, you seem to be avoiding the ENTIRE POINT of the article- that the flat earth community has no actual map or model of flat earth reality. Their map is derived from a GLOBE, not the reality of flat earth.

What about that is confusing to you, or angers you so much? THEY USE A MAP DERIVED FROM A GLOBE and call it a 'flat earth map'. Their model is totally and completely incorrect, yet most of them don't even realize it!

It's hilarious and sad that people are so unintelligent that they do not even know this.

I am not here for a debate. When you start off your post with an ad hominum, then there is nothing to debate.

I am pointing out that your doing so loses all credibility with anyone who you may actually want to debate. But, I guess you just want to preach to the choir. People who are with you chant, "yeah, he just called the other side stupid." Anybody who would actually like to debate finds this type of opening sad.

3 years ago (edited)

You came here telling me that my post was 'incorrect' so you OBVIOUSLY came here to 'debate', but now you are saying that you are not here for an argument! What a turnaround!

But then, when forced to concede that my post has no ERRORS, which was your contention, you continue to tell me that you do not like my writing STYLE, and you still offer nothing INCORRECT.

So, it seems you are just here to offer ad homs yourself by simply lying to try to discredit me by lying about my post being INCORRECT.. almost certainly because you simply do not agree with the CONTENT, so you pretend that you have an actual argument against it, when you cannot produce one.

And by the way, saying that someone has lack of logic, then SHOWING WHY, as I did on my previous article, is not an ad hom.

My comments were descriptions of substantiated and accurate observations of the lack of logic and reason being used by flat earthers for them to come to a particular unscientific conclusion. That is not an ad hom.

Ad homs are UNSUBSTANTIATED insults, designed to AVOID debate... like yours claiming that my post is incorrect, then saying that you are not here to debate.

And it's soooo easy to show that a flat planet really exists, just not the earth. Here, a photo:

Finally a proof!!!!

The flat earth supporting argument that all pictures from orbit / space are cgi fakes is the one that blew me away the most, the size of the conspiracy would have to be beyond monolithic. I always thought flat earthers would be advocates of the holographic universe model as well, but haven't seen any of them include it in their arguments. Anyway, I did write a nice fantasy story about sailing to the ends of the earth, but don't mistake it as flat earth advocacy please.

@reggaemuffin got you a 1.31% @minnowbooster upgoat, nice! (Image: pixabay.com)

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Where's the edge and why doesn't all the water fall off the sides??? These people are too stupid to pay any attention to!

Oh you dont know how this claim is backed up? Research it if you care to see what the FEers say about this...

I've researched it. Anyone who claims there is an ice wall is parroting nonsense from a YouTube video and has done no actual research themselves. It's a silly claim akin to believing in Santa or the Easter Bunny.

https://steemit.com/flatearth/@kerriknox/part-1-of-4-the-flat-earth-antarctica-conspiracy-debunking-the-ice-wall

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Too funny
Thanks!

You say "The ‘Flat Earth’ Map is Just an Azimuthal Projection Map of a Globe!". So the azimuthal map, that existed before the globe, was a projection of the globe before the first globe ever? Thats weird... Please explain.

Unsupported claim. You are the one who actually needs to explain.

Wikipedia says that the first globe was introduced in 1492. So should I explain that there were no maps prior to this or should I explain that there actually were maps prior to this. Choose one. Choose what suits your beliefs best...

2 years ago (edited)

It sounds like you do not know what an Azimuthal map is, what a projection map is, or the history of the map that you like to call a 'flat earth map'. . Perhaps actually understanding the subject you are talking about is in order before commenting. To say that there was an Azimuthal Projection Map before the first globe is oxymoronic nonsense, as is saying that your map is a 'flat earth map' when it's an Azimuthal Projection Map of a globe.

Flat earthers do not USE a map created prior to the first globe. They are using an Azimuthal projection map of a globe! So discussing prior maps that you are NOT using is irrelevant to the topic of the map flat earthers are CURRENTLY using. So, why are you bringing up maps you are NOT using instead of discussing the one that you ARE?

This is the second time in two posts you've changed the subject. First to David Dubay's proofs, the second to maps you are not actually using as a flat earth map.

Thank the Lord you dont agree with flat earth because math proves the opposite. Thanks for sharing @kerriknox

the earth is not a globe dummy. might be flat or a plane that just continues forever . Your argument is bunk

Yet you provide no evidence as to why you disbelieve a round earth. AND that is not even the topic. The TOPIC of this post is that in thousands of years of flat earth thought, the BEST map that the BEST minds have been able to come up with is a GLOBE projected onto a flat surface.

So, if the earth is NOT a globe, why does the flat earth community USE A GLOBE for their map?

What's even FUNNIER is that they don't even KNOW they are using a globe as a map.

And if it's a plane that 'continues forever', it'd be pretty challenging to navigate on it.. yet we navigate on it spectacularly well!

bruh... lol... you have more research to do

Exactly what someone who has no idea what they are talking about would say. Thanks for showing us you have no logic and reason, and are only able to use logical fallacies instead of science, logic, math, and reason.

You're welcome

Stop trolling. If you have a discussion or argument, then go ahead and make it, otherwise, stop trolling.

Did you disregard or debunk Eric Dubay's 200 proofs?

2 years ago (edited)

This post discusses the FACT that the 'flat earth map' is actually a globe. Why are you changing the subject? I actually have discussed several of Dubay's
so called 'proofs' on my steeemit blog. You're welcome to discuss something t hat is on topic to the post on any of them.

So, why don't we discuss this 'flat earth map'. Do you understand this map is not a flat earth map, but a projection map of the globe and that there is no flat earth map or model, which means that flat earth is an untestable hypothesis?

Doesn't it concern you that you believe the earth is flat, but that no one in history has ever been able to come up with a map or model and that you use a globe projection?