Are women who dress provocatively responsible for unwanted attention, or should men learn to control themselves? (Ecotrain QOTW)

in #ecotrain6 years ago


Last year, or any year before that I would have had a different answer to what I have now, but I don’t think it will be a popular one…

So, up to about a year ago, I would have been up in arms on this question and said, yes, of course, men should not act like that and a woman should be allowed to wear whatever she likes, without the fear of unwanted attention.

But you can’t go changing people, just like that, you can say ‘its wrong’ to the cows come home, but it won’t make a blind bit of difference.

God only knows I tried ‘changing’ someone for 13 years, it just doesn’t work. It wasn't even a major change, just I could see potential and I tried to motivate them to see that potential too, but no cigar.

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What is Provocative?

It is about accepting who people are. There will always be unwanted attention if you choose to dress provocatively.

Then there is different terms of provocative, as well.

I think the question refers to boobs and ass nearly on show, but it could also mean people who choose certain styles like emo or goth for example, or almighty amounts of bling, which would broaden the question of ‘unwanted attention’ right out as well.

So if a woman wears provocative clothing, she is likely to attract attention from men and woman alike, as we will be all be casting aspersions and judgments.

In all honesty, she knows she will attract attention, whether it is unwanted and how to deal with it is up to her.

Of course, it is any woman’s (any person’s) right to wear provocative clothing if they like, but they should be prepared of potential consequences of wearing said clothing by not giving a fuck what people think, being street savvy, ignoring unwanted attention, keeping in well lit public places and staying close to friends etc.

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The Reality

Yes it would be wonderful if a woman could walk down the street wearing what they would like and not get lustful glares, comments or wolf whistles (mind you I think wolf whistles have been outlawed in some locations).

It is, however, part of the reality of life. It’s not going to change, because people have to choose to change, so ‘re-education’ will not work.

I remember in my university days in London and coming home at 3am in the morning with a belt, platform shoes and boob tube and there could have been some dodgy moments.

There was certainly dodgy talk and night buses have all sorts of strange people on them and I wasn’t the most street savvy of students on the block.

Walking down White Hart Lane at 4am in the morning by oneself might also be seen as ‘asking for trouble’ and it was frightening, stupid and I was highly aware of the slightest noise or footstep.

Possibly not my wisest decision, but I’m still here 20 years later, so that’s good.

It quickly became something that I didn’t do, least not unless I had friends with me. I wasn’t much of a clubber anyway. Probably could count amounts of times I went on my fingers.

I think my brief provocative stage in dressing was being a rebel against my parents as they were strict and would not let me leave the house in anything revealing. I remember once trying to wear a black skirt that had slit up the side, but I was ‘forbidden’ to wear it.

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Everyone Has Right To Be Who They Want to Be

At the end of the day, it’s about owning who you want to be, being that person and having no apologies.

It can’t be one rule for one and one rule for another (well it is, but that is exactly what it is).

You could say, we as women should try and control our emotions better, particularly at that time of the month - not going to happen!

Neither is asking men to control themselves at the sight of seeing a provocatively dressed woman.

And before you think it is not my place to say such things, I was in a situation as a 17-year-old where a combination of too much to drink (vodka I seem to remember) and dressing provocatively led to a very unwanted situation.

But today I’m older, wiser and more open-minded and have learned (the hard way) to take people as they are.

But anyway, those are my thoughts on the subject.

Any comments? ;)

<3 @hopehuggs

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Hi @hopehuggs! Interesting topic!

This may be offensive to some, but I'm going to say it. No a woman is not necessarily asking for it if she were to walk down a dark alley in a miniskirt. That said, she shouldn't be told "just be who you are" without being warned about the dangers of putting herself in that situation. No amount of education is going to change this world into an entirely safe one. The fact and reality of the matter is that there will always be evil people, there will always be rapists in this world.

Women are often so ignorant of the nature of man. When I was a teen, my mom actually encouraged dressing what I would think of now as provocative clothing. Midriffs and short shorts, ect. She would tell me how cute I was and I was so naive. I really thought people would like me for me, but always noticed men looking. Fast forward years later. My husband was frank and honest with me about how men operate. For most men, a sexy woman in their sight will pull at their gaze and they will also fantasize about having sex with her. There's a reason it's always the father who says to his daughter, "You're not going out that way, go back and change!" when the mother thinks it's fine.

Not all men will have the morality, respect, intelligence, or inhibition to refrain from acting on their impulses. Especially while walking the bar district at 3 am.

I had a phase of testing fate in university, stupid, but luckily didn't come to any harm, maybe I had had my quota of 'bad' people in my life up to that point already. I don't recall wearing provocative clothes too often, mind you I was really skinny with no boobs or ass to show off really anyway, they came after I had children.

At the end of the day, it’s about owning who you want to be, being that person and having no apologies

Oh yes. Every action will have some reactions and we should accept responsibility for our own lives. We should be careful, not only with our clothes but with everything but we should also be free and enjoy life. We should try and educate people and work on getting this world to be a safer and nicer place for all. Much love 💚

No man is an island.

I read "An Inspector Calls" as a teenager and it had a really profound impact on me on how peoples' actions, however seemingly minor, can effect someone. I have tried to live my life by having a postitive impact, but failed miserably on some fronts, particuarly where my ex-husband was involved.

You have to remember youself too, and the impact on you too.

Nice to see u vlogging! very cool! I really appreciate your words, and message.. my response will come soon too! it is a really tough question to answer.. ultimately i like your perspective of not trying to change people.. because that is often the path to

I see it's sort of similar - you can't change the nature of the sexes, it is true.

This is such an interesting topic!

I find you really decide how you are putting yourself out there when you dress a certain way. I am in no way saying that it's appropriate for men to touch or stalk women that dress provocatively, but a woman certainly shouldn't be surprised if they are at least approached by men. Having your boobs hanging out of your shirt seems to me like an invitation that says "hey, I am hot and approachable."

I hear a lot of different excuses as to why women dress like that that have nothing to do with men, but really yours is the only one that makes any kind of sense. Rebelling against the parents makes a lot of sense. "I want to look good hanging out with my girls" is one I hear a lot, but I mean, look good for who exactly?

Do "your girls" like to see your T and A hanging out? I doubt it. I think some women like to tease men and then get offended when the men actually think they are available, even if they aren't.

Happy, stable women, in good relationships, don't dress provocatively when going out without their spouse, so on some level it must have something to do with attracting the opposite sex.

I also know some of my friends who have "tested their sexual market value" by getting all beautiful, taking off their wedding rings and perusing their town to gauge interest in them, as just a confidence boost.

I don't need to go into how f'd up that is, but it is just one level of the female psyche that reflects on promiscuous dress.

This is a great discussion topic though! Thanks for bringing it up!

I remember dressing provocatively when going out with a particular boyfriend as he liked to see other people looking and admiring his 'property'. LOL best not go there. It was short lived.

Wedding bands can leave an indentation too, mine has just about gone now after a year. I can't even imagine doing that 'just for the confidence boost". Oooh, we women can be just as manipulative as men are impulsive at a provocatively dressed woman.

I so want to answer at length and I will do so in my blog in a few days. I do think we can change as a culture and believe we have to. Yes there will always be evil people but i think how we dress isnt actually in our control. Empowerment is key. X

I look forward to it. I'm excited to see what other people write too. If you like, come back and pop your link here too.

First off, thank you for sharing.

I have to respectfully disagree with you. I've covered some of this in my video: https://d.tube/v/davethepitt/58zhnjfo and while that focuses on the errors of blaming victims of sexual assault for their assault I think we have some cross over here. If you walked down the road at 4 in the morning you should, in a just world, be unconcerned about this causing you problems. Yes we don't live in that world but we should. Men (or indeed anyone) should control themselves. If we give out any other message then it's giving these people an excuse for their bad behaviour.

But thank you for sharing your thoughts. I've subscribed. Just because we disagree on this doesn't mean I dislike you or never want to hear your opinions again. Keep up the good work and hopefully we can all live in a safer world.

I wanted a debate :)

I would love for us all to live in a safer world, but unfortunately, in this case, I don't see any way of making that a reality not without taking peoples freedom away.

Its a matter of tackling the greater evil I think, if we were to 'police' this completely it would be unfeasible and when you squeeze something in one place, the bulge will appear somewhere else.

Heya!

I don't want to spam you, but just in case you were interested, I have a referral link for you. It expires in an hour, so I figured I'd just see. I'll delete this comment once the hour has gone by!

Edit, the hour has passed, but since this post is now a part of the blockchain (because of the approving nod @hopehuggs gave it via nested comment), here's a referral link to mannabase Universal Basic Income that I think will always be good.
Manna: Universal Basic Income- https://www.mannabase.com/?ref=3984bea863

Hi @improv, I signed up this morning for this actually, but happy for you to leave link here as long as you like <3 - Long time, no hear. Hope things are well <3

Ha! Well, now it exists on the blockchain forever and ever! May we all be early adopters successfully!

Perhaps I'll see you around Punday sometime soon?

Yes, I retreated into a hole somewhere for a while, I'll be coaxed out to have a go at punday again.

Love to you and @stinawog, hope you are both producing awesome poetry and congratulations BTW (probably long overdue) just looking at baby pictures. So cute <3

@hopehuggs Thanks! I'm glad you've been coax out! Like a ground squirrel!

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