Manual Curation vs Automatic Curation

in curation •  2 years ago 

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Hey everyone, I wanted to share some of my thoughts with you today about curation on the platform.

First off,

Automatic Curation

I'm guessing most of you users on the platform are already aware of auto votes, either through Steemvoter.com, own custom bots or following curators through Streemian.com.

For those new followers who are not aware, what this means is basically; your votes will be cast on posts without you needing to do it yourself or be present at all.

There are quite a few scenarios how people use Auto votes.

The Patreon style

If you are aware of Patreon.com, its a platform where people can donate to their favorite content creators in a monthly basis with $ to support them. This is one aspect how I view autovotes especially through Steemvoter.com, there you can set up your favorite authors you want to vote on and at which post age your vote should be cast on. The age of the post is important because of the curation penalty the blockchain has, if you want to read more about that, I've written a post about it some time ago that explains it. But there is also another aspect of it why it is important:

Front-running autovoters with autovotes

You get more curation rewards if you were one of the earliest to vote on a post that will become popular. Even if you take, say a 50% curation reward penalty (which goes to the author as posting rewards instead) you might make more rewards if you were infront of the other autovoters that will be voting a while after you. Say you notice a popular author gets x amount of autovotes at 15 mins post age, you would set your autovotes to be cast at 14 mins.

In one way this is good, because it brings up competition, those autovoters at 15 mins might notice after a while (if they care enough) that the curation rewards from those authors aren't as big as they used to be, and if they dig the blockchain for the reason to it, they might decide to front-run your 14 min votes by placing them to 13 minutes. If this keeps going on like that its good for the author cause he will be receiving more and more posting rewards from the same votes but there might be a limit to where the curators think that its not worth it anymore and instead switch to another author.

If the front-running was that competitive as you, you'd have a healthy amount of auto-vote switchers from authors to authors leading to more unique authors getting these autovotes over time, but say some autovoters maybe don't care that much about the results, they are often lazy and don't switch.

There are of course a lot of other factors involved, but I want to discuss some of the problems this may cause while comparing it to manual voting.


Manual Curation

Some advantages of manual curation:

  • You read a post, vote on it and often add a comment to it - increases interactivity
  • You might stumbled upon posts from underrated new authors which other manual curators after you might reward thus increase your curation rewards
  • You can spread your distribution of rewards to a more unique author base, be it followers from your feed, authors someone has sent you links to - making the voting on the platform more diverse, if we were all manually curating we wouldn't have as much of the same authors trending weekly
  • You can vote on good posts that many other curators might have missed, increasing the rewards of that author who might have gotten disappointed seeing no rewards for the amount of effort and time he has put into his posts - increasing the satisfaction of authors contributing to the platform

Some disadvantages of manual curation:

  • You might not have time every day to read 10+ posts a day and curate them
  • You might miss some favorite authors you usually vote on that day
  • Your curation rewards are according to Jerry Banfield around 3x lower than from autovotes so you lose out on your investements ROI
  • You might vote on posts that turn out to be plagiarism/abuse/etc making you lose curation rewards after steemcleaners flag them

What would be a good solution to this?

Mixing automatic curation with manual curation. You would be able to support your favorite authors, while at the same time finding new ones when you have the time to curate posts.

This is a bit of a philosophical problem, cause as an investor who wants to earn as much as possible, you might choose to go full auto votes for those increased rewards while spending little time on the platform.

Is voting on the same authors time after time again the correct path to take for the platform to succeed in the long run?
Is voting on the same authors time after time again fair to all the new authors joining the platform and putting the same if not more effort and quality into their posts?
Do autovotes make authors lazy in the long run, knowing their votes and rewards are just waiting for them to press "post"?
Since curation rewards is something no other platform offers, wouldn't it be great if we didn't focus on maximizing rewards but instead focused on where our limited daily votes are going?

Let me know in the comments your thoughts on this! Thanks for reading!


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Is voting on the same authors time after time again the correct path to take for the platform to succeed in the long run?

No! Therefore I have suggested the idea of diminishing returns again: after each vote on a specific account (including ones own account) each further vote on the same account should lead to significantly less curation reward for the voter and less profit for the upvoted account. Thus, when upvoting an account which I had already upvoted before, my voting power would be smaller than in case I upvote an account which I didn't upvote before.

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I actually like that idea a lot! But as @kenhudoy said, it should build back up to 100% strength with time. I guess kind of like our VP percentage builds back up. Isn't that great? The code's already there to copy!

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Yes, sure, voting power should recover while not upvoting a certain account.

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Interesting idea, I like it. funny I never thought of that idea

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@jaki01
I agree but there should be a timeline to it...say upvoting same author or self more than 2 or 3 times a week...👌

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Actually I would allow as many upvotes as one like, but every upvote is getting significantly weaker than the previous one in case it is for an account one has recently upvoted before already (similar like voting power decreases anyway if we upvote often - this decrease of voting power just should be faster for upvotes for accounts one has already upvoted ...).
And concerning a time frame: yes voting power of upvotes for accounts one has already voted for should recover over time, too.

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  ·  2 years ago (edited)

The same would have to be for downvotes as well (because they have to work in equal measure) which means this could also be an anti-bullying method! I hope @ned and @sneak will consider it. I completely agree that it could be a great solution to the current issues of imbalance between self interest and the interest of the wider community.

The only problem that I see with it is that it may encourage people to use sock puppet accounts. The average user probably wouldn't go to the effort of creating 100+ accounts but those who are currently invested with only their self interest in mind would definitely take advantage any way that they can.... The only thing I can think of that would discourage that would be the cost of creating the account, and so it really depends on how much SP is held by the sock puppeteer to make it worth their while. Take the badger accounts for example... There are 70 badger### accounts all belonging to one user with combined power of around 60 million SP... They could take turns forever upvoting each other. Sock puppet account would need to be disincentivised in order for it to work...

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good point... nice one...
lets keep steeming hot...
regards

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Then what is the point of building up a following if your fanbase can't appreciate you? Some people only read two magazine others read dozens. Do we punish the two magazines because the customer doesn't want to read others? I don't think I follow the logic.

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you making a good point... so what do you suggest is best option for such issue?

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Perhaps the open voting system and curation model is imperfect to start with (with large numbers of participants for this reason) and with this pressure of it being devalued a new app on top will evolve, and this issue is us seeing the evolution in action. So I don't think tinkering with the base mechanics there will solve it; let it fail, and something better will come out and if it's working for the creators, then maybe that's the best curators out there...the bots.. and human curators were needed just to get steemit the push it needed to get started...are human curators chasing a dying industry?

Options? Ok. I would think that people will always pay for quality and stay away from spammy things. So first, I agree, I like the Patreon style for a high value curator.

An idea: Or maybe there's a way for a human curator to create a 'magazine' (lack of a better word, but you get the idea) or pay-wall hidden application that curates older well-written posts. For example, maybe I write 20 awesome posts over the year, and I made some money on them, but they're effectively disappeared from my feed now, so I can pay your magazine a fee to include them in your upcoming release of your next 'digest' so I get exposure to my personal profile. Or maybe I just buy advertising in it.

The issue I have with steemit, is that it's designed to always be now, now, now and no rewards for a great post later (unlike Youtube that continues to reward for views). So perhaps an older good-quality post can be included in a 'magazine' to bring me attention now.

my two cents.
(sorry for the duplicate post below, that was Steemit, not me.)

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Then what is the point of building up a following if your fanbase can't appreciate you? Some people only read two magazine others read dozens. Do we punish the two magazines because the customer doesn't want to read others? I don't think I follow the logic.

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Hmmm that is in the pity in the end, because often you still end up reading posts of the same writers, usually because the actually write material that intrigues you.
Self voting should be banned I think, absolutely no point in that

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el articulo es interesante pero estoy mas deacuerdo a votos manuales solo hay que tener mas cuidado con quien votas el automatico da mas desventajas que beneficio

Both autovotes and bots are detrimental to the Steemit ecosystem.

as an investor who wants to earn as much as possible, you might choose to go full auto votes for those increased rewards while spending little time on the platform.

The problem with this is that while you might be getting increased STEEM rewards, that doesn't mean higher rewards if the value of that steem keep decreasing. Not to say that these auto-votes are the sole reason for the price crashing, but certainly we can all agree that increased interactivity and engagement is good for the satisfaction of the userbase, and with this as the ultimate goal we would see the value of our steem increase.

I've battled with this topic the entire time I have been on steemit. When steemvoter came out, I toyed with it because it sounded like a great idea at the time, however, I was not happy with the results. Yes, it voted on some of my favorite authors, but not always. I will say that it is a great option for when you are traveling, for example, I will probably engage it while I travel to London and then to steemfest. But, the 85% of the time, I prefer manual curation, it just feels that I have more power to engage and try to reward up and coming authors. The debate in my head goes on.

I re-read your post from 5 months ago. It appears to me some things changed a bit since HF 19 on the timing of curation, but I can't scientifically prove it. I'd love to know if did change or is it just me?

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Its good that sometimes whales vote others who are also posting good quality content than voting the same person over and over again.

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totally agree with you

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I totally agree. Unfortunately what you see in Steemit is a certain "monopoly" of privileged people who always receive votes from the whales, while many new and old platform users even producing extremely valuable content are forgotten on the platform.

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If they could only randomly distribute their votes to the masses, what a wonderful world it would be. What happens is aside from voting their own peers, others are selling it for a price. That's what money can do, it can change human perspective.

A year ago, I heard from a huge person in the platform that Steemit were created to provide financial stability to its members but that's not what we see right now. The same people over and over again are gaining and controlling the market.

Just an observation.

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If they could only randomly distribute their votes to the masses, what a wonderful world it would be. What happens is aside from voting their own peers, others are selling it for a price. That's what money can do, it can change human perspective.

A year ago, I heard from a huge person in the platform that Steemit were created to provide financial stability to its members but that's not what we see right now. The same people over and over again are gaining and controlling the market.

Just an observation.

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I totally agree. Unfortunately what you see in Steemit is a certain "monopoly" of privileged people who always receive votes from the whales, while many new and old platform users even producing extremely valuable content are forgotten on the platform.

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Only the reward curve changed, not the penalty as far as I know. Back then being a small account and voting early on something that would payout thousands of $ would give you a lot more SP in rewards than it does now.

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That's good to know. Thank you for giving me some clarification

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Ah. I see. Thanks for that tip.

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I user steemvoter for my favorite authors but do most of my curating manually too. Engaging with the community is the real value on Steemit and creating good content.

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i vouch this :_

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This seems like a solid approach. You are right...after all, did people join just to make money, or for engagement and quality content as well? Seems like being able to enjoy all three is the ideal.

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It's all a battle with curation isn't it? This is well said. and thank you for voicing this.

I too played with SteemVoter a bit when I joined, I also was manually voting, and thus my VP ended up super low and I had no idea what was going on.

Since then I have stuck to mostly all manual voting so as to keep myself engaged, and to not reward crappy content. People who know they have autovotes can (and sometimes do) get lazy and post crap. I don't want to automatically vote on their crap just because I like them. I don't automatically give anyone an upvote, even the people I consider myself closest to on the platform have to earn the vote.

Maybe when I get more established and can't keep up with my feed as well that could change, but for now, I don't worry so much about the curation reward, and more just vote the things I like!

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I'd like to earn your vote mike. Check out my page when you get a chance - I like to write up articles about real estate investing. It's tough growing an audience - autovotes are nice , but as you said it's better to earn the votes from real people who actually took the time to read or at least skim the article.

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Everything has its points of interest and inconveniences same runs with way of voting. Yet, in the event that I were to ask, I'd favor that some way or another whale voters change their voting propensities after some time and let others pick up fulfillment in the stage and abstain from seeing similar names again and again on drifting page.

Personally, I like to rely on manual curation. Because valuing people’s work and actually read them makes the other person feel happy and valued. It also makes friends and you can both grow together which is better for the long term. I think this platform is here to stay, so why not make friends who make good content and grow together for the long term 😁.

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Agree with you. What is social platform if majority are just sleeping. Interaction is needed in a social community.

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STEEMIT SHOULD exclude automated curation. This thing easy to abuse for those who get apropriate level of trust. Because of those automated curation you sometimes exclaimed "Why this garbage gets so high payouts?".

Read, and only then upvote.

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Steemit SHOULD but it CANNOT because of its core nature. How can software in a node verify a human when it doesn't already have the answer? If it does have an answer, a rogue node can say some user has passed the humanity test for voting but also lie about it.

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Could it only allow a vote if you actually view the post? Or can a bot open a post as well?

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Could it only allow a vote if you actually view the post? Or can a bot open a post as well?

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I like manual curations too. I did not avoid auto upvoting though, but I do more of manual curations when I am in the platform because I like finding new stuffs and there are lots of interesting writers in SteemIt. The only problem is that I run out of VP very quickly and I might not be able to give a decent upvote on the good article that I find at the latter time of day. Ah, curator’s dilemma!

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Agreed, though I would like to add that if you take the stance that you know you will support a given author regardless, auto voting and reading and commenting later has the same effect while maintaining engagement and maintaining the reward.

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i am also agree with you

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i am also agree with you

I think reading the post and adding an upvote than is more valueable because you actually take the time to read it and sort of engage

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I agree, and then commenting on it proves even more that you read it and that engagement should be rewarded by more authors with votes.

It really grinds my gears sometimes when I see trending posts with many good comments and the author hasn't taken the time to neither reply nor reward the good ones. Ignoring or flagging the "spammy" ones also teaches them that that kind of activity won't be rewarded here.

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Everything has its advantages and disadvantages same goes with manner of voting. But if I were to ask, I'd prefer that somehow whale voters change their voting habits over time and let others gain satisfaction in the platform and avoid seeing the same names over and over again on trending page.

follow me and I follow you :)

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I think people get greedy and don't find the need to reply but I like the way you do it , you always reply and engage ! Thank you for that

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Hi! please help gather more funds

I haven't used any auto voters, because I want to read and see posts for myself. ^^ I do have some favorites authors, so I tend to visit there page from time to time if there's something new with them... It takes time, but I personally want to stay hands on... ^^ There are also times when my favorite author posts something which isn't as great as his/her previous posts.. so I can vote according to what I like... in auto voters, you set up the time and percentage... so no matter what that author wrote, you can vote... but what if the content this time wasn't very relevant? lol... I'm so bad... X_X but I vote my friends and family members even though it's just very short.. lol.. Well, that's what I think...^^

Great post @acidyo
Well we know the problem here...which is affecting most of us minnows and who put a lot of time and effort to research and do great posts but alas...nothing...but we see hugs curation for just a lazy photo or someone at home watching TV and doing a selfie..
We need to look into it as most great content writer who were invited to steemit are discauraged...auto upvoting should stop and only manual upvote.. if we miss out a favorite author...let's look out for a good content and vote...this will ensure there is fair distribution of curation spreading to those who work hard and not for those who has already made their Mark here...this is a community...we all are like family...let us spread the love and look out for all...enough of auto upvote...which also shows in one line comments on posts...😫
Tks for this post allowing me to air my views while hoping something will be done in this regard...

Plase remove the "Rising Sun Flags"
Hakenkreuz, Svastica, Hook cross = rising sun flags.

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'Rising sun flags' is really horrible..
I don't understand why @acidyo chooses this image.

It's a dilemma when you want to reward every post from all of the authors you like. I only have a couple on auto vote now as I prefer to engage, read and vote accordingly. Even your favourite authors put out something now and again you don't necessarily want to vote up 100%. I am going to add one or two on Steemvoter as they only post 4-5 times a week like myself. I found that my power was getting drained too quickly to Steemvoter as well due to some of those I follow posting 5-6 times a day or more.
I believe it shows it bit more respect to manually curate however I understand that some of those who use predominantly autovoting just don't have the time to manually curate everyone they follow.
A mix of both is more than likely the best way. At least that way you have the opportunity to come across mew adopters with lots to offer.
Great post buddy, thanks for the info.

I still prefer manual voting on posts which I like instead of hijacking in the hands of others. Nice post @acidyo. It covers all aspects of voting.

Honestly I think auto curation needs to go, all it does it turn the site into a bunch of bot votes and worthless comments. If the bots went that means everyone would be on the same playing field in terms of getting their stuff upvoted based on value and more communication would happen in the community.

As for myself I wont ever use an auto up voter I will always read and leave related valued comments on a post.

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I can't agree more @bitcoinflood
Auto upvoting should go...period...

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I can't agree more @bitcoinflood
Auto upvoting should go...period...

Very good points here: I use both methods and manual curation is more fun! It's all about passion, interaction and getting both financial and emotional rewards. Learning from educational posts like this and voting them is better for the person than just getting the statistical/financial rewards in his/her account.

I think the rewards settings as they are work pretty good, but if we would like to aim to reward quality content maximally, I'd suggest a few tweaks:

Automatic voting does not imply viewing or reading the content. I'd suggest to limit the potential reward of a vote when the viewtime on the article is low. So for example, to receive the maximum rewards possible at least 3 minutes viewtime on the post is required, else your rewards drops with a corresponding percentage.

At the same time, I would have 50% payout of the post for curation and only 50% for the author.

Also, self-voting should receive a percentage of penalty when it comes to rewards.

With these few tweaks, we would see a dramatic reduction of low quality posts, we would have way more manual curation and interaction and the average quality of posts would be way higher.

This will however probably never happen on Steem, but maybe a new SMT might take these thoughts into consideration?

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I think there might be a few problems with this...
For example, monitoring "viewing-time" is something that is simply not possible on this platform... unlike facebook, instagram, twitter etc, there can be thousands of interfaces to access the steem blockchain and there is no guarantee that each will implement the right way of monitoring "view-time". I don't think that is technically possible.

And... I am not going to comment either on the author/curator payout debate or self-voting-practice debate...

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As I said, this is not likely to happen on Steem, some reasons for that are mentioned in your comment. But a new SMT could very well adopt a one-interface policy where this can be measured.

I would even go further with this. Maybe that SMT could collect voting patterns and reduce payouts when the same accounts always vote exactly the same. That would make multiple accounts, acting together for maximum payout a strategy that doesn't pay.

Ultimately I think that the behavior you will get on a platform is determined by the way you set up the parameters when there's money in play. If bad behavior leads to monetary rewards, that's what you will see. You simply cannot expect all humanity to adhere to decency standards.

I prefer to manual vote. Auto-voting seems to impersonal and I like to actually interact with those I vote on.

On the other hand, all of you please feel free to auto-vote me! 😁

I think auto-voting defeats the purpose of voting for content. We all hear people complain about self-upvoting is gaming the system, but auto-upvoting is just as bad if not worse.

Very helpful post @acidyo. I'm quite new to steemit but i defenitely think a mix of both might be the right way to go

Everything has its advantages and disadvantages same goes with manner of voting. But if I were to ask, I'd prefer that somehow whale voters change their voting habits over time and let others gain satisfaction in the platform and avoid seeing the same names over and over again on trending page.

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What a good friend, excellent words, and I follow him.

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What a good friend, excellent words, and I follow him.

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What a good friend, excellent words, and I follow him.

Better to take always some minutes a day for manual curation, and imho manual curation should have higher value on upvotes.

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

hi , the photo you used is a symbolic flag of Japanese imperialism.
"Rising Sun Flag"
For Asians, it is a mark like a Nazis pattern.
many Asians do not want to use it.
thank you

Good post ;). Personally I like manual curation. Just because I think you have to read a post before you like it ;)

Good post ;). Personally I like manual curation. Just because I think you have to read a post before you like it ;)

Good analysis. I'm still manual but wouldn't mind automating things a bit. Thanks for the ideas to take into consideration

I usually do a combination of both. I have a bot I set up to upvote the Bulgarian community on the platform, and I also take time to read through posts and engage with the authors. After all, ​a bot is just a tool, it's up to us how we use it.

Automatic votes as kind of a Patreon thing huh? Never thought of it that way, but you make a good point! I've been manually curating for a long time now. I like it better this way, because I can diversify more. To me, complete automated votes are a bit unfair towards the rest of the community. You're basically not giving any new member a chance to impress. A mix should be okay though. Support your friends, but leave some for new talent aswell :-)

Only been here for a week and this is the first time I've heard of this automatic curation. I think it undermines the integrity of what Steemit is trying to build here. Why auto-like your favourite author if you haven't read their latest content? Are you still a fan of theirs if you blindly upvote them? It doesn't bring any accountability to creators and allows for mediocre content to prevail.

I think the fact is Steemit has INCREDIBLE potential to be a new age social media platform. However, people will look for a quick buck wherever possible and this can ruin a platform. Look at many of the big social media sites that exist and people are sick of ad content being pushed to them not only by the platform itself but by the content creators of those platforms. If Steemit wants mainstream adoption it has to come across as a place where people can share genuine content that people can trust is popular because the community thinks it's popular, not some bot.

I have been working on this part of Steemit and tried different methods. I think, a mixed approach is the best one for numerous reasons already mentioned in this post:

Mixing automatic curation with manual curation. You would be able to support your favorite authors, while at the same time finding new ones when you have the time to curate posts.

For many, time is key factor so they can go for autovote. However, they will have to sacrifice on earnings in case their authors get downvotes/flagged.

Great post @acidyo. By the way, I mentioned you and @ocd in my recent post.

Keep rocking and helping Steemit users. Your content is always value-packed.

Thank You and stay awesome.

Steem On!

Auto upvoting is like you don't even bother to read a post and gets Upvoted with auto bot which is sometimes not worth it. It is really injustice to those who are good Authors as minnows. So those auto upvoters won't bother to search for some good content and if the find one they won't even bother to upvote coz they have set their priorities somewhere else. In this way the poor minnows most of the time remain a minnow. Why? coz many of the Whales have set their auto bots on other Whale's posts, you scratch my back and I yours don't bother for minnow's posts.
I am happy to have guys like you @acidyo, coz I see you supporting the minnows in real sense, @stellabelle too is working on to support the minnows. But this aint enough, we need some more whale to join the circle.
I am now at 54 reputation with your support and @stellabelle. But you have more participation in it. Every time you upvote me, my reputation goes up hahah.
I don't have much Upvote worth but I Upvote content which entice me and is good, irrespective of whether the Author is a minnow or a Whale.
So this is why I try harder to produce something good. If I don't receive much appreciation for my content, then definitely there would be a time that I will say enough, no more time wasting on good posts. Just play around.
This is what actually I do not support auto upvote.
Thanks
Tc

You might not have time every day to read 10+ posts a day and curate them

Exactly nor would I want to. I think a better way would be to use Machine Learning to summarize. Here's a paper I found quite readable.

This is a a concern, for I've seen single sentence posts at $30 simply because of auto-voting. That's bad. If someone has people auto voting them like that, why would they care about the quality of their posts?

I have not used any automated services and probably never will. Even going through new user intro posts is done manually. Yes, it takes time, but I want to find quality new users to support. A robot or service cannot do that for me.

There's also a problem where people will reply quickly to a new post, and then their reply gets a ton of upvotes from bots. They are abusing the system in other words. When you ask the person who replied where all the instant upvotes to their reply came from, they feign ignorance too.

If I have a decent reply to a trending post, I'll ask my friends to support me with upvotes. I'm not timing my replies though, and I don't reply to game the system or gain profit. My reply is to further the discussion or add something valuable to the author's post.

Quality replies to trending posts is a great way to get more high quality followers. I never want to automate that process though or abuse the payout system to do it however. I'll stick to manual and personal replies in all cases to genuinely welcome new people and genuinely add to a discussion.

That will improve our population of Steemians over time instead of making it worse through auto voting.

Thanks for posting about this topic. It is always a worthy one to discuss!

Manual upvote is done steadfastly. automatic upvote. really not social. lol !!!! I like your post. Thanks my friend

I am a big manual voter. Sure I have my favourite authors that I upvote but the rest I read and vote for. It gives me a real mix of people that can receive my vote.

There is something I really dont like about autovoting although I have been sorely tempted to use it.

But then I worry, if I give in and set up auto voting, I will be essentially phoning it in and not investing as much. It's a tough one. I can totally understand why people use them. I put every bit of effort into all of my posts as if I wasn't on a list but I have seen that some people take advantage of autovotes with multiple shitposts.

Man, I had better stop or this will become a post in a minute!

There is a way autovoters can support manual curators. Go to Steemwhales and look for a top curator who has low steempower - that person is likely a manual curator.

Then autofollow them, and bingo you have your mix of manual and auto curation.

Loading...

Thanks for the info! Especially being a new user that was really helpful 😊A mix sounds like a good balance! As a new user I am pretty surprised at how hard it is to gain visibility for a post no matter the content on this platform, but I really appreciate curators efforts and dedication to finding great content! 💕

Voting manually is some sort of selflessness...while autovoting is the other way around. Thanks whales I know you got my point.

I really like your post and the information you provide is really good and genuine ...Thanks for the post🙂

Ohhh..that's looking nice,you got a great talent that you are using in Steemit that actually its pays you ... I think you will get success . May God bless you !!!!👍

For me, I prefer to manually upvote, because I may want to make a decision based upon what I read and/or see. Lots of authors post quality content I deem worthy of my review, time, and response. Also, I learn things from some authors.

I had no idea auto curation was a thing...hm

think you for the info :)

Informative.........👍

i hope one vote or follow me...brother

Great topic for a new competition, I really like it. Upvote

Oh yea @acidyo you're right about this . From my end here. I think there are more disadvantages using manual to it's advantages . I have been on Manual for a while now..imma try auto soon. Nice post 👍

Manual curation always tops auto curation.. if you don't even know what or who gets your vote then what is even the point in being here?

it seems most autocuration is a network of rewarding the whales by whales without having obvious self voting - to those of us who write content , it is amazing how hard it is to be seen without making it into the trending and hot sections

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Trust me, that's been Steemit since it started, even before there were autovoting protocols.

informative thanks for the post

I prefer manual curation.

great

Hey @acidyo, thanks for posting this.
I've a question, if you left the auto upvote crossed, the money goes back to the reward pool or it goes to the authors?

Thank you! Great read. As a noob i've still yet to deeply look into this subject. Thank you for the post!

Sup mate, great article, Im digging in more and more about curations. I try to mix them both manual and autovote to increase my curations. I have a couple of authors seted as automatic, those are people who I know the write good and original content. And also I try to keep a daily curation at least 5 or 6 posts. I've been checking my % in relation to my SP and I noticed it has been growing since I'm paying more attention. I used to receive a 0.12% and now I'm on 0.22%, I know is not that much (1.3 steem / week but in relation tu my SP 590 is pretty good). I'm about to read you pos about curations to see how they work properly, I always had the question if curation rewards are exponential in relation tu your SP. if I have 1000SP and receive 5 steem a week from curation, does it mean if I have 10.000 SP and keep voting the same I will be doing 50 steem?

This is a great discussion @acidyo! Thanks for brining it up! You've got quite the engaged conversation going here. I made it through most of the comments before I wanted to add my thoughts.

It seems like the whole point of the reward curve has kind of gone by the wayside with the autovoters being able to pick when they vote. It actually works out to penalize people who are manually voting! If I am in my feed and see a post that just came up, I will open it and read it. Then I have to see how long it has been up and decide if I want to wait to vote it or not.

I think a more sensible solution, that wouldn't take too much coding I don't think, but I am not a coder so I don't know, is to have an alogrythm that looks at each users voting history and penalizes them if they use their vote constantly on the same users, and gives a penalty for that rather than when you vote.

Someone suggested taking away the upvote on the feed button as well, and I think that might be useful although I have found myself forgetting to vote when in a post then going back and hitting it in the feed.

I don't know. For every scenario you can come up with to "Fix" the system, someone else is going to find a way to game it.

So I just stopped worrying about how much I make in curation and reward stuff I like. I upvoted this post like two hours after it went live and is sitting at over $100 payout, so my curation for it is going to be slim to none, but I got engagement out of it. So that is my reward!

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The issue I have with penalizing people for voting on the same authors constantly is that there are authors that do tend to put out stellar content consistently. Keep in mind that value is subjective, so while the same author can go between an incredible piece of literature to a video about him piddling around Minecraft in VR, both of those are posts that are valuable to me. If he's consistent, I shouldn't be penalized for consistently upvoting him.

I don't disagree that it would have a net impact on reducing vote spamming via autovoting, but it also hurts people that want to support creators that they genuinely like on a regular basis.

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I failed to complete my thought. That's the trouble with word vomit commenting. hahah

The penalty should come into play if someone consistantly upvotes every post by a particular author at a specific time after the post is published. This would theoretically take the place of the 30 minute rule, so it really only penalizes Auto-Voters.

If you are manually upvoting every piece by someone whose content you like, I don't think that should be an issue. But if you are always upvoting them at exactly 29 minutes after publication, then a penalty comes into play. Doing the same thing that the reverse auction was supposed to do.

Of course as soon as something like that is put into place, the people who are running auto voters will figure out a way to randomize the vote time to avoid the alogrythm.

Thank you friend, I didn't understand much about curation, but your post made me understand everything to perfection... really thank you, I will follow your advice.

I think a couple people have already hit the nail on the head. Its always a balance between the two. Like a lot of others I've toyed with steemvoter but ultimately I don't like it and this is why. I see a lot of whales auto voting each other, even when it is crappy content. What does this show new users? As leaders of the steemit community people stress writing good content/comments and interacting with others and the autovting takes both of these aspects out of the equation. Lead by example. I know your curation rewards will take a hit and if you are traveling and away from the platform then by all means use an auto voter, but don't rely on it.

Thanks for the info! Especially being a new user that was really helpful 😊A mix sounds like a good balance! As a new user I am pretty surprised at how hard it is to gain visibility for a post no matter the content on this platform,

I was doing the autovote thing for a little bit, curation trails and what not. I recently stopped because I realized I was voting on content that I personally did not support. Not that I'm saying anything against anyone's freedom of expression, I'm simply stating that I would not be the one to support certain points of views.

I think that specially for the minnows auto-votes might be counter productive, the best way to grow on this platform if you have a tiny account is not by trying to score 0.002 steem from autovotes in my opinion, but by finding your own tribe and trying to find out how you can contribute to that group.

If you are a whale however, it could work very much so like a tiny interest you are collecting every day.

In any case thank you for sharing, I appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

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I use steemvoter on authors that I already find myself voting for them manually all the time anyway. Once I see they always write posts I would vote on I may add them to Steemvoter so I can support them. But I like manually voting posts and actually reading them. Engaging with the community is where the real value is and creating good posts for them.

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I kind of learned this way of thinking from you @luzcypher you've built the open mic community because of the way you are, its not just luck or anything random...

:)

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Real engagement and helpful content build a real value on Steemit in my view. Once you do that it really doesn't matter what the price of Steem is or how many followers you get a day. The community growing is the value and if it helps others it stays valuable regardless.

It's good to see some of that mindset rubbing off onto you. You're off to a great start and I know you'll succeed because you have the right mindset.

After looking at the factors that affect reputation score, I did come to the conclusion that there simply isn't a specific strategy that is guaranteed to work for you, because a lot of it depends on the type of person you are and the audience you want to attract (not to mention the type of money you want to make). So I think ultimately you'll have to try one or the other (or both) and see what works for you. For those interested in my analysis you can read about it here:

https://steemit.com/reputation/@plushzilla/why-reputation-on-steemit-is-not-all-it-seems

Great @acidyo!!
You are a Good curator

Why not using both manual and bot votes? It must not be "either - or", right?

As I see it from the perspective of my physical body, I have manually considered only limited absorption capacities. Like you already pointed out.

I have good as well as bad days and different moods. If I'm tired, I'd just like to have a bot do all the work. If I am awake and receptive, I do nothing better than reading posts and writing comments. Nothing beats personal contact and a humorous exchange in the comments.

But if I am grumpy, but my bad mood should not be to the detriment of my favourite subjects or authors, can I take a bot-servant with a clear conscience, can I not?

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That's what I do. There's some authors that I want to support because I have a personal relationship with them and they have an outstanding track record for good content. @alexbeyman is one of them. While I don't get the chance to read everything he produces, I've never been disappointed by anything he's created, and he creates a lot.

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I just made a glimpse on your account and saw that you publish a novel. Haven't read it but probably will.

Nice of you to promote one of your favorites. I do the same and recommend a photographer @astridschulz. She is really skilled and makes stunning photographs! She recently joined, than paused and then joined again.

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He's far more successful than I am, but I stand behind the work he does and the literary work he's put out. Given the sheer volume of work produced, you could read him continuously for months and still not run out of content :D I'll check out @astridschulz. Thanks for the tip!

your post is always good.i always resteem upvote you.i also follow you

good

I don't know. I only know enjoy the ride and still doing it manually :)

I did not know about steemvoter.com and streemian.com. Thanks for these helpful tips

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I think reading the post and adding an upvote than is more valueable because you actually take the time to read it and sort of engage

I prefer a combination of a both. I have some authors who I want to support via rewards, like the Patreon model you talked about. You're actually the first person I've seen articulate that method of thinking, and I like that description. I also will manually curate when I have time (which isn't often, but I do go through new posts without an eye to who made them).

I don't take issue with autovoting per se, but I can certainly see the problem with it when that is the only thing people rely on to curate content. Narrowing the focus to a few well-known curation accounts narrows the playing field, and that's not good for Steemit as a whole.

I am new so I prefer and only do manual voting. I love the interaction and upvote with comments. This could be that my followers are not many and that I have lots of time with few followers. Who knows? Maybe next year, I have 1000 followers, then a bot is preferred because I would want to support loyal followers with great content. The other solution perhaps is to start deleting followers who I don't read and follow anymore so that my followers are more streamlined. But I know what you mean that it is not fair to newcomers as they don't get a chance so I think it is good to go into the introduceyourself section everyday and read and follow who comes in for a month and see how they do.

The only fact that I really understand of this is that I don't understand. 😂

Please help! I had just finished commenting to this same post. It was tagged @Raphael24. Then I saw this one and went back and checked his . There was no reference and the bottom was cut off! Did I just upvote plagiarism? And what can I do about> Thanks!

Automatic curation might have some advantages, but the entire concept seems a bit strange to me. And I'm not sure that it fits into the whole Steemit ethos.

With auto curation, you are limited to upvoting. With manual curation, you can add comments. From my perspective, that makes a major difference.

Auto upvoting does not involve any interaction whatsoever. Leaving comments is a great way to engage with other Steemers, learn something or teach something, and build the Steemit community. Those are major long-term advantages that auto curation does not allow.

So, I'll stick with the manual curation.

Thank you for clarifying the different aspects of voting. I rarely post but do a lot of curation with the idea of building community. I guess each type of voting has its place if we really read each post.

You have raised very salient points, @acidyo. In my opinion, autovoting is totally against the creativity that steemit supports. It's laziness that could make one to set up votes for certain authors without knowing what the person will write about in the next hour. Suppose you set up your account to vote on my content and I came up with articles that brings dispute, people seeing you vote on it takes you as insincere person, not minding if it's autovote you used, since it does not indicate.

Also, if we keep using autovotes, how do we reward good contents from new users? I strongly suggest autovotes should be abolished from steemit, so we can proudly say steemit rewards good contents. Autovoting is corruption, fueled by discrimination.

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I fully agree with you @greatness96.

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Thanks for loving the truth

Everything has its advantages and disadvantages same goes with manner of voting. But if I were to ask, I'd prefer that somehow whale voters change their voting habits over time and let others gain satisfaction in the platform and avoid seeing the same names over and over again on trending page.

follow me and I follow you :)

informative post. Thanks for sharing

Interesting,,,,,,,, I like it. funny I never thought of that idea.........////////

This is one of the best performing posts I've seen in a long time. Upvoted you because I learned some very useful information. Thanks, Acidyo

Up until just a few days ago, I was doing just manual voting, but have now signed up with @buildawhale which only votes for me when my voting power is above 90% so still plenty of opportunity to manually vote.

The best of both worlds?

Great topic discussion @acidyo.
As my decision personally, manual curation is better way to choose because we can give vote value numerically & increases interactivity after satisfaction our blog comments. Contribution curation rewards very easily to voters. Automatic curation vote power automatically sent to non valuable commentators & followers. Its unsatisfactorily way.

I am one of the newbies to Steemit and am trying to learn how it all works. Thank you for your post. I feel like I understand this concept and process a little more after reading your article.

I agree that we need to mix-and-match both auto and manual voting. I have delegated my voting powers to Shadowbot. Most of the time I read the content and upvote. Sometimes I'm unable spend much time on steemit, so thats when auto vote is helpful, when my voting power hits 100% it will be utilized by Shadowbot. By doing this, my voting power doesn't stay idle, this is useful when i'm on vacation 😎

I just read now that after 30 mins of posting an article/clip, the curator gets 100% curation rewards when upvoting. I recommend waiting 30 mins then upvote.

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After i read this informative articleI, i think i better quit on frontrunner and do my manual upvotes.

Thanks for the informative article sir @acidyo

After the HF 19, everything changed - I was not happy at all. I used to have .47 but after I joined steemvoter those numbers had gone down even if I didn't vote to anyone manually. I thought they will vote for us as well. But after getting our names for registration @lazariko12 and @pavezi did not even care to visit our post. They even asked us to vote for witnesses before that. In fact, I had an arguement with them after realizing it. I don't cheat people so I don't want to be cheated.
Back then, the whales and dolphins often have an arguement about curation. But after the HF 19, which obviously an advantage to them, they disappeared like ghost. Steemit was divided into two, the rich and the poor.