Calling on All the Smart Folks Here!!!

in #communitylast year

Today I was talking with a close friend about Steemit and the world surrounding it. He is fairly tired of my cheerleading but is open to learning. He is a doubting Thomas when it comes to this place, what it can do, and how it works as a whole. He is an extremely intelligent guy and in all honesty...one of my smartest friends. He asks questions and raises points just to play devil's advocate and to learn a bit more about whatever the conversation is about. So it was no surprise today when we were talking that I began to get frustrated at nearly every turn as I didn't have the answers he was looking for. He questioned everything I threw at him and in all honesty, raised some valid questions that I just could not answer...but would like to be able to next time these topics come up.

So I am calling on the community here. I am asking all the smart minds that are here to help me in answering or even just clearing up the murky responses I was giving to him. Because I am now wondering myself. I thought I had a fairly decent understanding and grasp on certain things but apparently I do not as the questions kept on coming, and I kept on derping. Basically...I am stupid...so...help me please.


SMT's

For starters...SMT'S. I was excited about the idea of what these could offer. To small businesses, websites, communities. I have heard the phrase "Tokenize the Web" thrown around a bunch and it sounds great. As a small business owner, I think it would be great to have a turnkey system in place for me to intergrade my website with so I can offer customers a token that can be redeemed for exclusive merchandise, experiences, excusive content, coupons, and more.

His response was "What is different about that from a points/rewards system?" I threw out the idea of something like ESPN .com creating a token that can be used for the same shit I mentioned above and for their premium subscription. He said what's different about that from what already exists with businesses that offer a point system. He gave an example of Hilton Hotel Rewards or his Airline miles. He said that he earns them by doing things involved with those businesses and he can spend them on rewards and other nonsense.

I mentioned an exchange where these tokens can be traded or swapped out with other tokens and he thought that was more of a detriment than a positive which I didn't agree with. He asked a ton of other questions about SMT'S and basically said that he does not understand the draw as places already can offer their base a rewards through points or other programs as millions of places already do.


Creating Accounts

He was appalled at the fact that creating an account through Steemit.com can take upwards to a week or more. He wondered how many people we have lost due to that fact, and couldn't fathom any reason why the account creation process was not instantaneous. I explained that there are pay options for instant access like @steem.ninja and that there is basically a cost to create an account on the chain. This disgusted him even more and said that it was a major turnoff if people had to pay for an account. I agree that it should not take as long as it does.

I will speak from personal experience in trying to recruit folks through my shop, that one fella waited over 2 weeks and by the time he got his acceptance or confirmation email...he simply lost interest.


Simplicity

One of the biggest critiques of his was just how damn complicated everything is. Now this is not exclusive to the Steem blockchain...this is understand. But I do feel that until things are made easier for the average joe to understand and work with, we will never even sniff the thought of mass adoption. A few of these "complicated" issues surround...

  • Passwords - The fact that there are several, long, complicated passwords used for different purposes is something that once again I have heard several people that I have personally tried to or actually did drag on...bitch about. I understand it's purpose. There is delicious money at stake here so it needs to be secured well. I don't know how to simplify this sadly.
  • Steem/SP/SBD - My buddy still didn't understand the difference between Steem and Steem Power. When I explained it to him that Steem Power is just basically banked Steem, he just said "There has to be a better way of explaining this to people." Is he wrong?!?
  • Search Function - He said he tried to search several topics to find anything about them and what came up was a nightmare. I will agree with him on this. This function is abysmal and seems to have gotten worse in the 18 months I have been on the platform. I had no rebuttal on this one...

Identity

We also spoke about what Steemit is...or is trying to be...or doesn't want to be. Are we a place where people of similar interests can come together and grow? Is is a place to come and earn money? Is it both? Neither? Something else entirely?!?

I kinda (poorly I am sure) explained my thoughts that this was a decentralized platform for folks to come and share information. In return they can be rewarded, own and take control of their content, reward others, and hopefully utilize those rewards in other facets. I love the idea of a regular Joe coming here and blogging about...whatever...in my field it would be something super nerdy like action figures or comics. In my vision they can (eventually) be in a community solely devoted to those specific topics of interest. They can discuss with other likeminded folks and earn a token that is coveted in that community as it can be utilized in games built on the platform, spent at a shop for merch., and so on. He asked where ANY of those things are and all I could say was that some of these things are being worked on. That it takes time and so on. He wasn't impressed with my defense...


Blockchain's Permanence

One thing that he hate's about this place is how whatever you pop up here...will remain up there for all to see forever. He cited the obvious recent issues plaguing comedians and prominent figures such as politicians, athletes, actors, and other entertainers. How yanking an old Tweet or post made years earlier could ruin a career. How people's opinions can change or differ over time and that the fact of not being able to delete posts can be troublesome. Thoughts?

There were other discussions as well but this is what I can kinda remember off the top of my head. So my plea is this...

Can you guys who are way smarter and more capable at answering these types of questions...shine some light on these things? What is being done about some or all of these issues? An SMT's for Dummies course would be awesome and much appreciated. I am going to see what kind of responses this garners and I hope he pops on here for some valid discussions. He is already a member and has an account. I hope to drag him back onto this specific thread for some tasty back and forth that I hope will be eye opening and educational for him, myself, and any others that are not super clear on certain issues. I look forward to the responses.

If you know of someone who might be able to deliver and shed some light on these questions in proper detail, please tag em in the comments so they see this. Thanks a ton and shit...Steem is under .12 cents...go buy some and Power Up ya slackers!!!

Blewitt



Posted from my blog with SteemPress : https://iblewitt.com/?p=235
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tell him if he's too cheap to pay 3 steem to join, we don't want him anyway lol

Too dumb to help with the rest:)

tell him if he's too cheap to pay 3 steem to join, we don't want him anyway lol

That.

Regarding SMT's

What is different about that from a points/rewards system?

This isn't likely going to convince anyone, but already the first difference is that it is on decentralized infrastructure, meaning that the token owner is bound by certain rules regarding the token itself. For example, they cannot arbitrarily remove tokens from one's wallet.

The other is the ability to layer a reward system analogous to Steem that can reward based on votes. The white paper outlines the vision in detail.

You can point to all the different token sites like https://palnet.io as an inkling for what it looks like now (splitting into individual communities, in a sense), but I think the vision goes beyond this.

STEEM vs STEEM Power

The main difference I would point out is that SP gives you more influence over the reward pool, governance (witness voting), as well as other perks like getting part of inflation. In exchange, you lock an amount of STEEM up.

Identity

The way I think of this from an extremely high level is that we are building up a parallel economic system. The rewards encourages participants, as well as a system where SP holders can decide how a certain reward fund (coming from rewards minted by the blockchain at a predetermined rate / inflation) is distributed. Given a wide distribution, and wide participation (yes this is a bit problem right now), and developing goods/services/other value exchange, we can bootstrap an alternative economy that is not controlled by any government or individual entity (although to some degree a small number have significant influence over the direction of the blockchain itself, but that is limited in scope).

For example, I frequently am using steem to tap into things like SteemMonsters purchases, VPS (privex), or accepting Steem for certain programming tasks. It really can be anything as long as you have two willing parties .

Permanence

I'm just going to point out that the examples cited are also reasons why it doesn't matter. People change, so dated documents should be interpreted with that in mind. But okay, there's probably so much that doesn't get dug up because they were deleted, and that's fair (although anything that has been public at a given time has a tendency to be archived somewhere anyway). Nothing much to say here, but to interact with the knowledge that it will likely stick around forever. You can edit posts out to make it harder to see immediately but anyone that wants to dig it up (edit history) will be able to do so.

One can also interpret this as saying that permanence encourages better behavior. Not that it stops people from staying pseudoanonymous if they so choose, so there's always that option.

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You shouldn't have to convince anyone or defend anything. Good products or services speak for themselves... Unfortunately anything Steem related is no where close to good. This is very easy too identify for the avg Joe. Having a vision and direction for the future is very hard. Steemit definately needs to start with solid direction and development. But Im not here to explain where things are going wrong and how to fix it. That wold cost you all alot of $$$$$. And no one would want to hear what is actually necessary in order to stop failing. They have to figue that out for themselves. Cheers Blewitt

Steem is under .12 cents...go buy some and Power Up ya slackers!!!

I did, I did!

It is hideously complex. Tell him, he may not be intelligent enough to take all this in. The average IQ is 95 or so.. and everyone here beats that significantly?

No.., probably wont work. I intend to ask a LOT about SMT's at SF4. I want to create an Urbex community.. just for me.. to start.

Lololol

I’ll pass along that info to him. Lol

Yeah, I really want to know more about them.

Shit, I really wish I was attending this year but its a total longshoremen. Not impossible but very unlikely. 😞

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Not impossible but very unlikely.

I'm sure you said that last year...!!

I actually did. Stalker...

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I don't know if my explanation will help, but here's how I think about and how I"d explain it to my mother if needed.

Steem is a currency, just like the US Dollar or Mexican Peso. And like the US Dollar or Mexican Peso, it can be used to buy goods or be traded and exchanged.

"Steem Power" is a Savings Account that earns interest and let's the bank make loans.

"SMTs" are tokens that use the underlying infrastructure built by Steemit. They're a tradable, liquid good. Imagine going to a festival where they sell "Festival Dollars" that can be traded in that festival like money. Same thing.

This is all different from a points system in that the tokens and Steem are liquid commodities and currency that can be traded and sold for other liquid commodities and currency. Points on a credit card are not liquid currency. They're not even that liquid.

As for creating a Steem account and using it... yeah... that needs work. I actively wanted a place that wasn't Facebook to share my random thoughts, so I was happy to wait. I suspect most people aren't. And considering many people have a hard time remembering passwords, let alone four different keys for four different purposes, and we have a confusing interface. Fingerprint readers would be awesome, but certainly difficult to distribute. Maybe a good Two Factor Authentication system would help. Hmmm.

Performance of the Steem coin is also an issue, not only for users, but for all crypto. In my mind the biggest obstacle to taking crypto more mainstream is its volatility. 5-10% price changes daily, or hourly, do not make for a stable currency that can be used by the masses. I don't have a solution for that.

Anyway, hope this helps!

Very nice answer!

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You reckon you're a dummy? I read all the above comments and still don't get it, and I run a tribe lol!

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There are pretty good explanations in the comments, but I'll add my two cents.

"What is different about that from a points/rewards system?"

SMTs are a complete different thing from just points that businesses give: they are mini-Steems that can be assigned with similar attributes as Steem: the ability to stake tokens and earn more tokens with it. We already see with SCOT tribes how powerful this system can be to build communities, so I'm sure there are many creative ways businesses can utilize it.

He asked a ton of other questions about SMT'S and basically said that he does not understand the draw as places already can offer their base a rewards through points or other programs as millions of places already do.

When people start to slowly adopt SMTs and realize that most of the points you never get to use, because you need a certain amount to do anything with them, they are hard to accumulate, they often lack interoperability between other businesses etc., people simply won't use them anymore when there is an option to earn something that can be actually used to exchange for money or to earn even more via staking function – some business could give some kind of benefits for customers for staking their coins, for example.

He was appalled at the fact that creating an account through Steemit.com can take upwards to a week or more.

The account usability is a bit complicated, true. However, there should be a solution coming to that with lite accounts (in HF23?) that let people interact with the ecosystem in an instant with proxy wallet accounts, and later they can take full ownership of their account if they wish.

I'm not a smart person so my answers might not help out those highly intelligent people looking to further their knowledge but I will give my average joe answers to the question.

For starters...SMT'S.

For me this will be a plug in solution for existing sites to utilize the steem reward system with their own tokens backed by STEEM. Allowing websites to distribute rewards based on their activities and voting power. If i set up an SMT with my website and want to share ad revenue with the people SMT's will allow it. It will allow people to have a different internet experience where they get rewarded for their input rather than creating money for the people at the top table like facebook where all of the money flows upwards. If I want to distribute tokens to allow extra benefits or stake in the system.

He was appalled at the fact that creating an account through Steemit.com can take upwards to a week or more.

The onboarding is terrible at the moment but having to pay $2 isn't exactly a killer when lots of places cost for extra services. Going forward their will be lots of other ways to get an account like steempress who will be creating free ones for people using their plug-in and steemmonsters that you can get one with your starter pack. Steemit won't be the face of STEEM in the future and it will be the different apps that will bring in people through their own sites.

We also spoke about what Steemit is...or is trying to be

Steemit is just another app on the chain and one that will be getting a facelift in the next hardfork with communities and SMT's. They haven't focused on it properly so far but i think that will change as they need it for ads and external revenue. It will be interesting to see how they set up the different communities on the site.

STEEM is going to be the road for all of these different apps. People will be able to use this road but it will cost to run apps just like tax for your car. This is why they will need SP. The good thing is that you can hop into different apps and sites once you have your account. Your SP carries across all of the apps.

The main thing to remember is that all of these systems are being built from the ground up and to be fair have seen massive development in the three years of growth. It's not user friendly yet, it doesn't have all of the tools yet and it isn't ready for the general public yet. With that said every hardfork and innovation has brought us closer to that point. Every new app has brough improvements n the last.

Actifit is my favorite example for the whole system. You use the app and earn tokens. These tokens can be traded for STEEM or held up for more influence. In the future you will be able to use STEEM through a crypto debit card and buy new sneakers. So by adding value to the app you will be able to use this value for real world application. The app makes profit from it's userbase and the userbase make profit from what they put into the app. Simple but effective.

Steemmonsters allows for ownership of the tokens in the cards market. They have value and can be traded but everything is recorded on the chain. Again it allows for you to get value for what you put in rather than just playing the game.

As for everything being on the chain it allows for transparency and ownership of content. If I put up a post it's easy to show that it's my content and while this can have negative consequences that is up to each person to beware of.

I can't answer all your questions @blewitt, but I know @paulag has free accounts she gives away if you have one person you are recruiting. My person got setup in minutes this way. There are a few others who give away accounts too, but I do not remember who.

Second, a lot of the problem for your friends is that you are introducing them through steemit - the worst possible dApp on the whole blockchain. I would start them on steempeak for admin, wallets and search. And use esteem dtube, partiko, actifit or any of a number of good places to start posting here. All of those places have a good chance of upvotes for new blogs too. This way the place is less discouraging in the beginning.

Showing them steemit is a deal killer for sure. I stopped using it a year ago and recommend it to no one.

Ah @blewitt me owl flower. Interesting post and interesting comments from your friend. I get where he is coming from. Steem should not need so much explaining. that's its biggest downfall. But once understood, it all really makes sense.

Onboarding.......delays due to scamming (fake phone numbers and email addresses) also delays as steemit inc ran out of creation tokens because they were badly managed. RCs (SP) could have been delegated across so they didnt run out...dohhhhhhh

There are costs associated with transaction on any blockchain. on steem we look for a deposit...sp....the more you deposit, the more you can transact... new accounts need to be funded with this deposit or the new accounts can not transact. this also causes a dealy.

SMT's....hmmm......I kinda feel the same as him about it. when explaining steem to people using @theexcelclub I tell them the rewards they earn are like frequent flyer miles, and they can be exchanged against my premium courses, traded for other crypto & bitcoin and even cashed in.

Finally, love that you are using steempress and using bidirectional comments. but you need to give you urls an overhaul. https://iblewitt.com/?p=235 a more friendly SEO title would be https://iblewitt.com/somethingthatdescribesthepost :-)

Fantastic start. Lots of interesting comments.. Looking forward to sitting and reading through properly and directing my buddy to take a gander. Keep em coming folks!!!

your friend has a point on several of his issues. Course, he also needs to remember that we're only 3 years into this project so he's getting a chance to be an early adopter still. The fact there are people who have been here the whole 3 years and still love the place even with all the warts, should give him an idea of potential.

On the SMTs to points analogy. I will not ever participate in a points program. Ever. Hard stop. Beyond the fact the points have zero value other than the arbitrary numbers they assign to random products or whatever scheme they come with, they are using my use of the program to track buying habits and then sell the data. Tokens on the other hand will develop value that I can then choose to either spend directly or cash into fiat. Gives me the control without giving away my data to be sold.

As for the difference between Steem and SP ... Staking Steem into SP not only increases influence on the platform but also earns about 2.75% / annum on that stake.

Best and simplest explanation of SMT vs rewards so far. I GET this one.

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To be fair to your buddy I was completely on board for a Social Media site that paid you, but it took me a while to actually get on the site and even longer to post shit regularly. As far as comparing it to a rewards programs, is not a good comparison. A rewards program you are usually stuck in a specific product or service. While you can legit turn steem into cash, buy assets or another crypto.

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I know that I'm definitely not one of the clever people you're calling on, but just for the hell of it, I'm going to add my 2c worth.

I'll begin by saying that in my 2+ years on Steemit, I don't get all the technicalities, but I am beginning to understand some of the principles. I'll begin with what I think I understand:

The long passwords that are so cryptic. I think the key (pun intended) is in the fact that accounts are tied to currency. Long and randomly generated passwords are, theoretically, impossible to break. I won't get into how accounts are hacked and fished - that is one's own stupidity. I know, I've been through it. So, on the passwords, if you want to Steem away, suck them up and be responsible about not losing them. And I say that as someone who nearly did lock herself out and learned a hard lesson.

On the account creation timeframes: I do think that's a problem but I gather that it's manual - unless done through one of the dapps. I think, too, that we are so tied up in a world of instant gratification that if one is serious about something, it does no harm to wait. IMHO ;)

On the SMTs and tribes: I remain unpersuaded of their value except with the latter as communities of people with shared interests (or not). I get the analogy with loyalty/reward systems but there, I still don't get that - unless one is exclusive and is able to redeem for some real value. As a small business owner, I know that offering anything for free is never free. There is always a risk and a cost. Are they worth it? Can you measure the return? So, for me, unless I can convert the tokens into a meaningful amount of Steem and thus also fiat with minimal effort, you can keep them. Especially if it means using multiple interfaces/dapps to get anywhere. It's confusing, it's a lot of PT and again IMHO, it distracts from what I really want to be doing - writing and engaging.

Perhaps a bit of a rant, but there we are.

Thanks to @paulag for calling me over here for a good read.

The problem with blockchain currently is that most of the projects are currently inferior to existing other options, so starting on Steem now is like starting on the internet when it first came out. It's slow, not very user-friendly, and is limited on what has been created on it so far, but you join and learn cause you can see the potential.

Right now you have games, dapps, and ecosystems that are good compared to other crypto and blockchain related projects. One day you'll have crypto games that are just referred to as games because they're good when compared to the entire gaming ecosystem, not just one small section (blockchain/crypto) of the ecosystem.

A way to create an account instantly for the price of a little over one Steem.

Shameless plug, but it's a way to help others get started cheaply and quickly.

Another way to explain Steem Power is an investment in the Steem Blockchain to use the Resource credits of the system. It's a way to keep people from spamming the blockchain and filling it up with crap and bloat (more so than already happens).

SMTs

I've said from the beginning SMTs are overhyped crap, but can hold real value. Look at Steem-Engine. DEC is earned in a game that can either be redeemed for cards that can be sold for Steem or sold for Steem directly. It's an eng game currency that removes the middle man for safe exchange. Think of Gold selling sites for WOW, but where people who own the wow gold have a trusted platform that takes minimum fees.

Look at 90% of the other tokens on Steem-Engine (crap).

I'm not trying to be negative about SMTs, but the people who have insight to create SMTs that are "valuable" are just as important and will take just as long as writing the code to make SMTs happen.

One last example I just thought of is tokenizing an asset either real or digital. Aggroed created a token that can be redeemed for silver. The point wasn't to use it to buy silver, but to create a token back by silver that can be traded without actually moving the physical item and to be able to diversify your crypto portfolio. A similar example I can think of is selling Alpha and Beta packs. Once again it's an easy third party system that takes no or minimal fees that allows for trusted transactions.

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