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RE: My new thought on something to say to pro-communist people...

in #communism6 years ago

Can you prove that? Are you absolutely sure that the people that plan stuff can not be elected?

Ah ha. I see. You totally did not understand why I am making a big deal about central planners.

Do you know any god like super beings that are omniscient?

I don't.

So how is electing ANY human going to give them the godlike ability to know how to plan for all the complexities. It isn't. It doesn't work because we are not KNOW IT ALL Gods.

Even those who think they know it all actually only know a small fragment of things.

Central Planning works in small environments like hippy communes for a reason. Their needs are small. Their production is small. The quantity of people is small.

This is something that can be planned.

As that population scales, and as we start also injecting all of the different technologies, studies, production chains, etc that PLANNING requirement quickly goes well beyond any human capability.

So unless you believe you are ELECTING Gods then whether you elect them or not is irrelevant. They are still human and incapable of planning at that level. They would also need to never sleep.

Thus, why I say. If you want communism without supply/demand economics that is essentially capitalism then I'll agree if you let me be the central planner.

I didn't say I'd be good at it. In fact, I tell you now I'd suck at it as it isn't possible for a human or even a group of humans to know and plan for all of those details.

We have found a way that is not perfect, but it does what we cannot plan for ourselves.

The tool for that was a currency that enabled universal exchange for different products and services. This allowed supply and demand to happen naturally without human planning and through reacting to that different aspects of society that don't even interact directly with each other can simply flow and meet the demands in various ways in the production chain.

Is it perfect? Hell no. Yet it has abilities that central planning cannot do. So if you see a problem with it then by all means look for a solution. Yet the solution should be able to REPLACE and accomplish the positives of what you are replacing while eliminating as many of the negatives as possible.

it also doesn't produce really good stuff, look at all the stuff that breaks constantly all the junk.

Bullshit. Total bullshit. Look at all the good stuff it produces as well.

Supply and demand. IF you want to pay a lower price, and are willing to skimp on the quality there likely will be someone willing to provide you with that. That isn't capitalism's fault. That is yours.

If you are willing to pay more there are higher quality products.

In fact, if you look at soviet union it was known for having really shitty consumer products. They did well in military, and space. Yet simple goods for the average person were pretty shitty.

If you look at China. It has Hong Kong, Singapore, and Shanghai which most definitely are not COMMUNIST in any shape or form. Most of the things it produced in these capitalist city states that are well known are actually copies of things first produced in capitalist countries. And yes, sometimes/often they are really shitty quality.

Yet they are cheap.

You are placing blame on capitalism for bad products, while not giving credit for the good products. You are very much cherry picking to try to support your argument. I call bullshit loudly. :)

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I see your point, yes it isn't easy but why is it impossible. We can use many people, we have computers now. Ofcourse it may not be ideal but where is a boundary when we say "well it didnt work that great guess its impossible to reach expected results"?

Where are those good stuff? Are you talking about stuff that cost so much that normal people can't buy? Or you think stuff under capitalism are designed to last forever? Why would you do that? Instead of doing something that will work long time you need to build something fancy that will get old or broken quickly so that there would be demand for same stuff later.

"Supply and demand. IF you want to pay a lower price, and are willing to skimp on the quality there likely will be someone willing to provide you with that. That isn't capitalism's fault. That is yours."

How is that my fault? I am not the one who distributes wealth, if people were able to buy quality stuff they would do that, don't they?

The goal of capitalist is to maximize profit, so you need cheap work force and high price for product, you don't need to make something that will last long or care about environment, you don't care about anything but profit. So in the end you as customer get worse products for higher pay.

"In fact, if you look at soviet union it was known for having really shitty consumer products."
Such as?

"You are placing blame on capitalism for bad products, while not giving credit for the good products. You are very much cherry picking to try to support your argument. I call bullshit loudly. :)"

Call it whatever you want really, but are you refusing to continue this discussion?

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Call it whatever you want really, but are you refusing to continue this discussion?

No. I was just busy doing other things.

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