My new thought on something to say to pro-communist people...
I've lately thought of a new approach to the fact I am anti-communist, and anti-socialist. It is a very simple statement, but I do believe it illustrates a problem with both of them very easily.
To the communist...
"Sure, I'll support your communism as long as I get to be the central planner." I doubt they will like that idea. The question that then arises is what qualifies the people you will make central planner to be the central planner? Are they gods, super beings, with omniscient abilities, and perfect knowledge of all technologies, fields of study, and production chains in real time? Likely they are not. If they claim they are such people then you should get away from them as quickly as possible as they are insane arrogant sociopaths.
To the socialist...
"Sure, I'll support your socialism as long as I'm the one that gets to decide how much food everyone should have, how their education should be done, what kind of health care they should get, and other programs..."
I doubt they will like the idea of me being able to force these things and my beliefs and values upon them. The question then is what makes the other humans so special that they are allowed to do it? How well do they know them? Is it just an appeal to authority fallacy? It seems pretty stupid and naive to me.
That's it... You want someone to be able to dictate the plan? (Communism) Then let me do it. You want someone to be able to dictate what should be done by everyone to help everyone? (Socialism) Then let me do it.
Clue. I think this is idiocy. I don't really want to do it. I also doubt these would be communists and socialists would want me to. Yet, somehow they are okay with certain other humans exactly doing this. Or they are okay with doing it to other people based upon their own limited knowledge.
Just because it SOUNDS GOOD and FEELS EMOTIONALLY GOOD does not mean it IS GOOD. In fact it may be incredibly stupid and naive.
If only we could talk in memes in meet space.
I blame Steve Jobs for the inability to do this yet.
Bravo well said Sir @dwinblood ) I totally concur with everything you have stated in this post ! Communism is a failed model of governance 1 Its not me that states it, its History ! the Bolshevik Revolution killed 60 million, Pol Pot in Cambodia no one will ever know as they were all just dumped into the ground without trace ! Socialism is the little brother of Communism, but built on the same phallacy that we should all be equal, except of course the controllers who have the right to decide who eats and who dies !
You should check out my post yesterday: The Asshole Quotient- it explains what draws people to Socialism/Communism.
Will do. I didn't check much yesterday to be honest.
My pride and joy... My own model for political analysis
Usually they are zombies, if you really were their leader you could "impose" the most libertarian society of all and they would not criticize you, because they usually oppose people, not arguments or actions.
I think your quick summary of socialism and communism is pretty dismissive and largely misses the point of their ideologies -- essentially that collections of individuals should be the owners of the means of production rather than capitalists. Workers in factories should own, operate, and benefit from the factory -- rather than a single individual who stockpiled capital. I think there are many correlations between these ideologies and Steem (although it's not a perfect comparison by any means) -- which you happen to be thriving in by all metrics.
It's pretty easy to dismiss any different economic system if you boil it down to 10 words you disagree with, especially if they're unrepresentative of the idea to begin with -- the same can be done with capitalism.
"You want whoever has the most money to dictate the plan? Fine, then give me all the money and let me do it".
I think if you look at many organizations that operate in a 'socialist' manner such as worker co-operatives, co-op housing, and many other initiatives in this space, you would find that one of their main ideas is primarily the decentralization of power and authority, and not "dictating what everyone gets and what everyone does".
Is tax theft?-
If 'yes', cool - we can all agree that every single structure of socialism and communism falls.
If 'no', then I would like to hear your logic...
Socialism CAN and does, work. When the ecosystem is very small, and everybody is known to each other, and personally accountable.
It doesn't scale up.
cheers
I won't pretend to be an expert by any means -- economics isn't my field of study and neither is social economics or politics. But I think there are plenty of examples of countries with wide social services that help a great many number of people. Canada, Denmark, Finland, Sweden, New Zealand, and more, are strong examples of countries with vast welfare programs that keep their people healthy, happy, and productive.
Poorly envisioned and nefariously executed versions of communism and socialism from the early 1900's aside, I think there are plenty of great examples to draw on, and I fail to understand why so many people say it doesn't scale up. Why is it so hard to imagine a system where some people actively give more than they take in some sectors (imagine a strong healthy young man like myself paying into medicare that I don't really use, while my or a friends grandparents benefit -- or property taxes paying for the roads that bring goods and services to your house). If anything, a system like this is the only kind that has any real chance to scale up, rather than a system based on everyone extracting as much as possible, no?
I would argue that tax is theft if you strongly disagree with where the money is going (for example -- endless wars, churches, corporate bailouts, etc..), but if you're contributing to systems that you believe are important, I would disagree (I won't pretend that I agree strongly with how every dollar of my taxes are spent). I would argue though, that being forced to sell your labour on the "free market" or starve is not a far cry from a new form of slavery though. People, from the day they're born, should be taken care of to a degree where they can contribute effectively.
I think the world would be a better place if a single mother had the opportunity to stay at home, maybe do some art, write a book, make ends meet via social services, supplement the childs education, and teach them about how to be a responsible member of society -- rather than mindlessly flip burgers at one or two different minimum wage paying jobs and funnel the money directly into daycare while some other underpaid employee doesn't do anything much for the child other than make sure they're fed.
Ended up writing a bit more than I had planned while I sip my morning coffee... I'm interested to hear why you think that all taxes are theft. I'm sure there's something I'm not understanding.
Taking of one persons labor (or assets produced by that labor) - by force or coercion - is theft (with menaces).
It is not a voluntary exchange, it is one of force.
a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state that is communism as i know
this is educative
thanks for sharing
Communism also has the public owning all means to production. The problem is that to do this you have to KNOW quotas on what is going to be needed where, how to shift things when an unforeseen things happen, etc. These are all things that markets deal with simply. Without that market though you would need central planning.
yes that is right....
it's more that they want to virtue signal, and don't see the real economic consequences of it, wishful thinking is not reality
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all the best my dear friend.....
so helpful post
It is a higher thinking classes blog.There is some people in our social they are really differnt from other.They always try to do something that is good for whole social.
Keep it up