All aboard, the @flagtrail

in cleansteem •  11 days ago

Last week I delegated some Steem Power to @steemflagrewards and joined the @flagtrail. What, why, how......




Do you often see content you feel is hugely over-valued?

Do you wake up in the morning with 'spare' VP that could have been put to use overnight?

Are you fearful of a retaliatory flag if you down-vote content you disagree with for reasons relating to spam or abuse?

Would you like to be rewarded for flagging spam/abuse?

If some or all of the above are true, then maybe the @flagtrail is for you!


About a week ago, @imacryptorick put out a call to action post regarding @flagtrail, which is a service tied to @steemflagrewards with the goal of reducing the value of content considered spam/abuse.

Basically, it is now possible to automatically down-vote this type of content, which has been judged to fall into this category by the @steemflagrewards team.

Doesn't @steemcleaners handle this sort of thing?

In a word, 'no'. Their remit mainly covers plagiarism and rarely are they involved with content that for example, holds no value to the community and is boosted by an array of bid-bots.

It goes without saying that spam/abusive content is a matter of opinion, but the @steemflagrewards team are an experienced bunch of cleaners and so far, the down-votes my account has given I have agreed with:

https://steemit.com/@metma/life-is-jici4j7z

https://steemit.com/@vegawesome/spring-q5cbzic1

https://steemit.com/@esbjornbo/colorchallenge-friday-skyblue-ipci9v3b

Do you agree that these posts are spam/abuse?


How to sign-up

  • Join the flagtrail Discord server
  • Register your account via the following command in any of the rooms on the server

What do the numbers mean in the registration command?

100 - Allow up to a 100% down-vote to be given from your account

85 - Only cast a down-vote when your Voting Power is on or above 85%

10000 - Only cast a down-vote on accounts with less than 10000 Steem Power

And so, the command you enter could be something like ?register abh12345 50 90 5000 which would mean a maximum 50% down-vote, only when your VP is on or above 90%, to accounts with < 5000 SP.

These settings are available to reduce the risk of using more Voting Power than you would like, and also reduce the risk of being flagged in retaliation by an account much larger than your own.

Note: I would suggest setting the 'max SP value' to be no bigger than your own SP.


FAQs

What if I am flagged purely in retaliation?

Let the team know via discord and they will help! (no guarantees, don't bite off more than you can chew, etc)

Can I pause/remove myself from the trail at any time?

Of course. To pause:

To quit:

And there is a reminder with a link to remove posting authority for @flagtrail to complete the job.

Is there a commands list in case I forget?

Yes, this can be called on the flagtrail discord server by typing ?help

You mentioned being rewarded for flagging spam/abuse?

That is correct. When your account is used to flag a post, a comment is left under the lead comment that reported the content, e.g:

This comment is then voted on by the @steemflagrewards account later in the day. My down-vote on the content was as follows:

The reward ($0.47) is 38.2% larger than my down-vote value ($0.34), which if we deduct 25% for curation, means a 13.2% larger vote than I could cast on say, my own content. Not bad eh?


Delegate to @steemflagrewards

It is also possible to delegate to @steemflagrewards (the account upvoting the members comments), which if you don't fancy joining the trail, is a noble gesture for sure.

You can read more about @steemflagrewards on the posts that they put out each day, and here is one of the most recent:

https://steemit.com/steemflagrewards/@steemflagrewards/steem-flag-rewards-report---8-flagger-post---2019-04-13-1350


Summary

So far so good as far as I am concerned. I don't have to look for rubbish to flag, I get rewarded for flagging, and if I'm ever not happy with how my VP has been used, I can remove the delegation and quit the trail.

Cheers!

Asher

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Now were talking GET ON THE TRAIN!

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MORE pew pews!

You should put the utopian tag on this as well it is a nicely done post!

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Thanks very much!

I'm not really sure which category this post would fit into with regards to Utopian, Blog perhaps?

Ah well, missed a trick here!

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Just change one tag and it can still be reviewed.

It really baffles me how the anti-spam police continue to shame and downvote spam/spammers...and then double or triple (or more) down on the spam. And then, to be entirely hypocritical, they upvote THEIR OWN spam and call it “doing good for the community!”

So for every one spam post/comment that “adds no value to Steem,” the Steem Flag Rewards participants are adding another two, three, four, or more spam comments to the chain, which - according to their own claims - adds no value. If spam adds no value, then they ought to stop spamming more than the spammers they’re trying to dis-incentivize and stop rewarding themselves for spamming.

I’ve had this exact conversation before with both Steemcleaners reps and SFR reps. Of course, they think their own behavior is righteous...and their rewards justified. Go figure.

It’s just other people’s spam that “adds no value” and should be downvoted. That’s the Steem way - be hypocritical as fuck while funneling rewards to yourself.

Good job, team! Pat yourselves on the back for “protecting” the shit out of the blockchain!

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STEEM - "Where you can be hypocritical as fuck while funneling rewards to yourself. Join today!"

#marketing

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Hey, it’s better than the current attempts at marketing.

Can we get some dog park advertising again? I heard it’s the future...


D2FCB21F-1239-4B8F-A26B-887AA334E0C1.jpeg

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SFR should transition to upvoting posts through the Steem engine tokens... It's in process, and a year ago there was no decent SMT stand-in. Now there is.
If we want abuse to decrease, we need incentivize abuse fighting. Right now, the best to do that is upvotes (sadly, on automated comments).
I suggested that the ratio between the flag value and the SFR upvote should be significantly lower (in the 0.5-0.75 area), but I am in minority opinion. Although, at the moment, the goal is to actually popularize abuse fighting, so a 1:1 ratio has some benefits in the short term.
It will take some time to reach perfection. Please be patient

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I agree that there could be a better way to manage the content produced by SFR when dealing with abuse, and I see from the reply below that it is being worked on.

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Additionally trail users can switch off comments by commanding ?set username comment false.

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Here you go...flag some of this spam.

https://steemit.com/@steemflagrewards/comments

And don’t forget to hit this spam too.

https://steemit.com/@steemflagrewards/recent-replies

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Actually working on a system to reduce the comment footprint.

We will be issuing tokens as something of an IOU that users may employ on content.

Just had a baby so development has slowed somewhat. I'll try to kick it up a notch.

Thanks for the feedback, @ats-david. 👌

@steemflagrewards fysa

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Actually working on a system to reduce the comment footprint.

You said something like that last year when I pointed this out. I think it has only gotten worse.

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We have Steem Engine now. Token is created. I've already some code.

Regardless of whether you find value in the process, there are human moderators reviewing each flagged post and approving them.

Each follow on flag expresses concurrence to that approval and trust in the SFR team. It's is a reply not to the OP of the flagged post but the bot comment or original flagger comment.

Therefore, in that context, suggesting it is spam is a reaching. The follow on flag comments are relevant to the parent content whether they are automated via flag trail or manual.

Maybe stop sippin' that haterade for a second and consider how much work you are overlooking in all this.

I get damn near slave wages as a dev but it's not about the $$$. It's about affecting the profitability of reward pool abuse... But you would prefer people aren't compensated and would brazenly call the activity spam wholly disregarding what is happening in the background off-chain. The coordination. The teamwork. The camraderie. Fuck all that, right?

This is precisely why I will be recommending any SFR supporter unvotes your witness. I'm fed up with your shit.

@steemflagrwards fysa

Alcon, if you are voting @ats-witness, take note of the adversarial posture he has taken against what we do.

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Speaking of shit, I took a dump in your wallet! Take a trip to the bathroom to claim your worthless SHIT!

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^ Oh, look at that! Something of more value and in higher demand than Anthony’s spam-the-spammers project!

Amazing!

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This is worse than spam IMHO and the core issue with this platform.

Someone criticizes how you do what you do and your response is to get mad, then ask for others to pull support from that person ... for not agreeing with you.

This is why STEEM sucks, it's the people, not the spam.

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Speaking of shit, I took a dump in your wallet! Take a trip to the bathroom to claim your worthless SHIT!

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Yeah, it’s the people like Anthony here who turn valid criticism into “Stop shitting on my spam project, bro!”

And the hypocrisy is even worse. This guy is so anti-bot that he created his own bot. He’s so anti-vote-selling that he created a token for a bot that will essentially sell votes...but for flagging.

And then he probably uses this bot project to get those delegated Utopian votes as well.

All of this selfless work “for the community, bro!”

Then he pretends that we’ve had any real discussions other than me pointing out his spam project and hypocrisy...and then also pretends that he has somehow “checked” me.

Hey, whatever he needs to say to get some Steem street cred.

Hmm...maybe I’ll screen shot this shit up. Then we can see just how absurd he is with all of these self-righteous claims he likes to make.

I do wonder though...do his chat comments align with his blockchain comments? Inquiring minds, bro...

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What the frick did you just freakin say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Flag Corps, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on meme ripoff vote farms, and I have over 300 confirmed SFR flag mentions. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top flag campaign coordinator in the entire SFR armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the frick out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my freakin words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, mother trucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the blockchain and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're freakin dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill your reputation in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your effin tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you damn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're frickin dead, kiddo.

Note: This is just a copypasta meme and totally not serious. I just thought the absurdity of it would have possibly got a laugh out of my favorite critic. Sorry if it was interpreted otherwise.

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He's been giving me shit for a minute. It's the complete disregard for the off chain activity and work put in on discord for the sake of Steem that ticks me off.

I don't reckon you have been of our Discord but there are plenty of people to bear witness to what is going on. Many of them can be found in the thread.

Ats has shitting on SFR for a while. It's not honest criticism but more theatrics. He and I have got into it a few times. I checked him for being an asshole on @steemalliance. It's his way.

There is a positive ways to give feedback. Like yes, I am working to deprecate follow on flags. I just had a baby, am sleep deprived, and am tired of his attitude. I've dealt with it a few too many time and other people on the chain (not his buddies) know EXACTLY what I am talking about.

Posted using Partiko Android

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David just had a baby tew, give him a break bro!

He also has no frens, so we can't be "buddies" ... but i get that the collectivist mind can't comprehend individualism. #honk-honk

ned honk honk.jpg

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Therefore, in that context, suggesting it is spam is a reaching.

It’s comment spam. It’s not “reaching” to identify it as such. That’s just what it is and it’s worthless in terms of “adding value to the blockchain.”

This is precisely why I will be recommending any SFR supporter unvotes your witness. I'm fed up with your shit.

Cool story, bro. Go fuck yourself. I don’t give a shit about witness approval from self-righteous, virtue-signaling, hypocritical assholes.

You whine about not “getting paid.” Did you ever stop and think about why that is? Did it ever occur to you that your spam-and-reward service on Steem just isn’t in high demand from people actually willing to pay for it?

Maybe invest some of your pittance into some business and economics 101 classes.

Everyone, if you’re supporting Anthony here in any way, take notice of how fucking high-and-mighty and utterly clueless he is.

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Did it ever occur to you that your spam-and-reward service on Steem just isn’t in high demand from people actually willing to pay for it?

No, it's not designed for my personal profit probably which is probably more than I can say for your bid bot endeavors.

  • It profits good flagging.
  • It profits anti-abuse.

I give my time knowing all too well it is worth more than I will get back. It's all good. I'm okay with being a flag force multiplier as a hobby. I would just need to put in an extra hour at my job to pay me what I get for my highest paid posts (utopian project updates)

Whether you want to accept it or not, there is a demand for what I do. It's just not extremely lucrative in terms of MY wallet.

Posted using Partiko Android

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Says the man from the high horse. Give me a break!

I already explained the rationalization for follow on flag value so whether you accept it or not is on you. The crux of my argument is the ACTIVITY off chain is where the value exists.

Are you that dense that you reject that value can be imported from activities that occur off-chain? I'll enumerate a list again since you seem slow to understand.

  • Tracking abuse
  • Initial flag mention
  • Mods grabs from Discord and assesses
  • If approved, mod issues discord command on bot channel.
  • If the abuse warrants, flag trail will be invoked requiring a subsequent command.
  • The mod then comes back to SFR and issues the batch follow on approval command.

The trail followers help shave value from abuse and it is transferred to them in the form of rshares because you know well most users on this chain will not do something without an incentive.
That's the process. What you are telling me in that there is nothing of value to the chain? If so, you are beyond help and not worth one more second of my time.

✌️out

Posted using Partiko Android

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The crux of my argument is the ACTIVITY off chain is where the value exists.

Oh, right. I forgot. Chatting on Discord makes it totally cool to spam and reward yourself and your friends...in the name of “protecting you from spammers!”

What a fucking joke.

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https://steemit.com/@steemflagrewards/comments

Bot comments are OPT-IN and are a notification of flag approval on our discord.

Posted using Partiko Android

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hmmm - just had a similar thought hence my comment, at least the good flaggers should flag the real rapers not the small ones that usually are the victims of such a cleaining initiative

@steemflagrewards is one of the most important communities on steem. I prefer to look for posts to flag manually every now and then... my fave technique being to look at the SFG post, find a candidate then scroll back to more recent posts that haven't been flagged already.

It doesn't take too long given that I can't spare more than a few 100% flags per week. I think the returns from SFG are also pretty good as far as I can remember.

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The folks involved will be happy to read this 😁

With the settings available now I can't see any excuses for not being able to spare a little VP each week.

Good to see you on the SFR post!

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I love it.

Talking about flagging I really want to flag an irritant I've picked up on drugwars, but he hardly posts at all. He's preventing me building. I'm going to put out a contract. Once his army's wiped clean I should be able to keep him at bay.

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Flagging for stealing my drugs, not sure about that one!

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Only if they don't have 30K SP, I also try to intuit whether it's an alt-account... I remember reading something about someone who flagged markymark's drugwar's alt-account, I don't think it worked out well for them.

I will have to look at this. I did a lot of manual curation for SFR and I will get back into it at some point. I trust the team to use their power wisely.

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Worth a look if you are keen to try to keep the place tidy, as I know you have been trying to do for a while now 👍🏽

I am so sad that you are starting to go that way as well. All that valuable voting power could be used to support people who actually produce good content on the blockchain.
I am so against this flagging business and find it very ego driven and hurtful to the community. Hundreds of good content creators leave because they are not seeing their posts rewarded.
I very much believe that we grow the things we put energy toward. The flagging community is growing the problem of lousy content by diverting their valuable possible upvotes for good content. I truly hope that you reconsider that move.
And no matter how "experienced" the people are that decide who gets a downvote - it is still censorship.
Anyway, as I am writing this I feel myself getting more and more annoyed and I don't want to start my day that way.
But honestly, initiatives like that have made me consider more than once to give up on Steem.

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@mariannewest

It might surprise you. but we want to see good content creators get more rewards too.
Something you might be overlooking, is: when an abuser DOESN'T get a reward for their useless content, the rewards of other content creators increases. That's how the reward pool works. It distributes a more or less fixed amount of STEEM, between those with a positive pending payout on their posts. So the less STEEM abusers get, the more high quality content creators such as yourself earn.
For instance the whale-no-voting experiment started by @abit two years ago, increased the voting power of every minnow by a significant sum. In other words, less posts with pending payouts, a higher payout for the remaining posts.

Regarding whether this is censorship or not: even when a post reaches 0.00$ payout, it's not hidden from the various Steem UI (steemit, steempeak, etc'). Everyone can still access it, and be exposed to the content of the post(no matter how useless it is). The word you're looking for is demonetization, which means, making certain types of content\activity unprofitable; i.e posting random images from the internet to upvote them for 2$, each.
People can post whatever they want to Steem. But it doesn't mean they should necessarily earn from it

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@mariannewest, we are revising the SFR system so that credits are issued and can instead be used by content creators on quality contributions to this chain. (Instead of generic follow on flag comments.)

I think flagging is often a thankless job but someone has gotta do it. We are trying to give something back to help keep your platform clean.

@steemflagrewards fysa

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Hi @mariannewest, thank you for the comment.

I'm on my phone at the moment and so cannot give you the response your comment deserves, I will reply with more when I get home.

Thank you so much for promoting the Trail so nicely. :)

Hope that more people would join and we will have a stronger team to fight abuse. Also thank you for your delegation to @steemflagrewards.

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It's worth highlighting as a service for those that do feel they can spare some VP each day/week.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions...

This can go sideways real fast, but I think it will do wonders for the DRAMA token :-)

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No drama here 😝 Just removing rewards from poor content, hopefully.

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Don't say that... I just logged in to steem-engine to buy some before it moons 😁

Posted using Partiko Android

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😂👍🏽

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DRAMA +5.80%, just saying 😁

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shhhh! :D :D

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The whole purpose of everything is to increase the price of DRAMA.

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By turning steemit into a hostile environment.

Just look at the discussion here, not very friendly. I know Asher and I know that his heart is in the right place even though we are on the opposite ends when it comes to the bid bots. I think of it as a vital part of the steem ecosystem, he sees the spawn of satan...

Now, let's examine his first flag (https://steemit.com/life/@metama/life-is-jici4j7z). Take a closer look and tell me what do you see? Here's how it looks from my perspective:

  1. The guy spends $80 buying the upvotes.
  2. The flaggers show up and start flagging him for spam 3 lines of text post
  3. The flaggers leave a ton of comments (pure spam)
  4. The flaggers upvote those spam comments

It makes the whole operation look like a bunch of hypocritical douchebags. I know that Asher isn't one, but he's the only guy involved that I know with that project. Perhaps, they are all hypocritical douchebags, perhaps they are not.

Now, after all is being said and done, what's the end result? Is steemit a better place after those flags and those comments? I don't think so.

I'm all for flagging massive, industrial-scale botnets that are set up for the specific purpose of milking the system, but I would never flag that post.

All I see is a guy that spent $80 within the steem ecosystem there.

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The flaggers show up and start flagging him for spam 3 lines of text post

That's not what we flagged him for, but okay.

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My comment to ats david address most of what you said, so I'm gonna paste it here


SFR should transition to upvoting posts through the Steem engine tokens... It's in process, and a year ago there was no decent SMT stand-in. Now there is.
If we want abuse to decrease, we need incentivize abuse fighting. Right now, the best to do that is upvotes (sadly, on automated comments).
I suggested that the ratio between the flag value and the SFR upvote should be significantly lower (in the 0.5-0.75 area), but I am in minority opinion. Although, at the moment, the goal is to actually popularize abuse fighting, so a 1:1 ratio has some benefits in the short term.
It will take some time to reach perfection. Please be patient


About the 'abuser' in question. Factually what happens is:
He sends about 75$ worth of coins to a bid bot
He receives 80$ worth of coins from the reward pool
People who post much higher quality content, get lower rewards because a large % of the reward pool goes to (with no means to offend what so ever) absolute crap
One of the key 'selling points' of STEEM, is, high quality content is produced & rewarded here. So users like him damage this moat in two ways:
1: a larger % of content is crap, and new users are not impressed with the platform, and leave
2: actual high quality content receives significantly less rewards, and thus is even less common on the blockchain

So he didn't really spent 80$ on the ecosystem, he just tried to convert 75$ to 80$, via a shady mechanism (people willing to upvote shitposts for STEEM). He made an investment.
Spending 80$ within the system would be something like paying a user coins for some kind of work, whether graphic design, video editing, or anything of value to the payer. Which extracting money from the reward pool: is not...

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Until the new system is in place, each spam post gets a ton of spam comments that are being upvoted so you are not returning that reward into the reward pool.

One of the key 'selling points' of STEEM, is, high quality content is produced & rewarded here.

It's being produced, all right, but rewarded? Sometimes.

Blaming the bid bots for it and that guy that invested $80 is absurd. Each and every day I see a ton of good posts that don't go over $1, hell even over $0.10, and at the same time I see a total crap, a shitpost of the kind that you'd flag going over $10. The only difference being that the good content has been produced by a nobody while that shitpost is being produced by somebody. There's a social aspect to it and I don't mind it.

If a whale farts, the upvotes are there. A lot of it. That's just how it is.

I know that in an ideal world the whales would be out there rewarding great authors, but the reality is a bit different. There are only two ways a nobody can get any visibility (or earn something from the posts):

  1. Get lucky and get the support of some big account
  2. Buy some upvotes from those that sell it

The first scenario is not that common, so the only realistic approach is to go with the second one.

Which extracting money from the reward pool: is not...

The reward pool is the key STEEM's selling point, to be more precise, the ability to profit from it. If by some chance that goes away the users and investors would leave the platform en masse.

We need those guys that trying to convert $75 into $80, and from what I'm seeing, he wouldn't get flagged if he put in a bit more effort in that post and made it look high quality.

I know that you disagree with me here but look at it this way. You spend $75 usd worth of STEEM/SBD buying the upvotes. At the time you've got those upvotes you're $5 usd in profit, but what happens if the price of STEEM/SBD goes down? You lose $$$. Add to that the fact that half of the payout will be in SP and he'll get just 50% in SBD (depending on the price movements he may not even get SBD).

By the time he gets the post-payout, a lot of things can change, and he can lose $$$ even if he's been in the profits at one point. I'd rather see people circulating that SBD/STEEM within the system than seeing them sell their liquid earnings the moment they've got it.

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@beat-the-bookies

Perhaps I should have made this distinction earlier: buying votes for content that provides massive value (even 80$ worth of votes) should need be compared to buying votes for absolute trash.

I'll make an argument that is not made often enough imo, we lose more if bad actors (i.e VP abusers) hold too much SP, rather than they dump it all on the market, even if they do it all at once.
A short price fall, will be an opportunity for many minnows, dolphins and plankton to grow their stake, without breaking bank in the process. AND if the bad actors leave, the reward pool will be distributed by those who're left, most of which would gladly upvote content based on its merit, and not just because they're bound to earn from it.
I'm playing this game long-term. I believe that Steem is just scratching the surface of its potential. We could rival Medium in a few years, if we play our cards right.

Posted using Partiko Android

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I'm playing this game long-term. I believe that Steem is just scratching the surface of its potential. We could rival Medium in a few years, if we play our cards right.

Some people think of steemit as a medium, some as a fb. I think it's a bit of both.

I've just checked your blog and wallet, saw your post about this initiative and your holdings. You've got a ton of sp and you can make a real difference. I'll be the last guy on Earth to tell you how to use your stake, but I'll invite you to think about the other approaches you can take and see if you can get more bang for your buck that way.

Fighting the abuse is not the best approach in my opinion, sure, there has to be some effort to combat the botnets since it can cause a lot of damage, but these hustlers trying to make $5 with $75 investment are not that big of a deal.

I see that you're aware of the problems this initiative can cause and that you've limited your flagging to 50k sp accounts. So, if I have 50.001 SP, I'm safe. The problem is the backlash. There's no way a person can not take the flagging as a personal attack because it's very easy to produce a 100 more shitposts of the same quality that are not being flagged. So, you either have to flag all of it or accept the fact that you'll have people holding your actions as a personal attack on them.

Steem has great potential, but so do have many other projects out there. Keeping people around, engaged and invested is much more important than going after the hustlers.

With that in mind, here's something that works. Two things:

  1. Autovote lists - most people earn nothing here. Very few make any money and the upvotes & rewards are seen more as some game points than the real money. I can give you an example of a guy that with a fraction of your SP did a great job and his efforts have produced a vibrant community on steem that's alive and kicking for over a year now.
    Here's how he did it. He'd look out for the new users that are posting under his niche tag, and if he saw a genuine account he'd add it to his upvote list. He'd start you with a small upvote and if your content started to improve that % would go up... A regular, even if worthless in the terms of $$$ upvote and the path forward has created a community and kept it going to this day.

  2. dApps - Have you tried Actifit? Those posts do look ugly/spammy, but there are real people posting them and having some fun. That's the app that has an effect on people's lives in the real world. It motivated me to start walking, not because I'm earning $$$ from it, but because there's a community around it. It's fun, too. I see a friendly banter going on, people trying to outdo each other... That's the kind of thing that's worth supporting.

I guess, what I'm trying to say is that this game is about the people, not the content, having their attention and getting them to spend their time around here and not on some other project. God knows there are a ton of them out there, and that's why I think it's better to build up this place than to police it.

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Many things to respond... let's see if I can reply to everything using one paragraph;

The way I measure whether I'm doing a good job decreasing VP abuse on Steem, is by how much SP that is held by abusers is powered down.
A 50K limit is fairly arbitrary. Just to avoid a situation that I'm at war with 6 Orcas, which can together bundle up and mitigate everything I do. Whether I'm flagging 10 people with 10K SP each, or 50 with a combined SP of 75K isn't the point. How many of them cease operations is the only metric that matters.(again, how much SP is powered down and sold, regardless of how many people actually held it).
If I'm being diligent about who (or more accurately which posts) I flag, it doesn't matter whether the flagee refuses to understand that it isn't personal. I can explain why the flag was placed on his post. But if his too stubborn, I'm not going to be his therapist.

Regarding engagement, both are (almost) equally important. You can't have a good social network without a large user base. But you also can't have a large user base if not enough rewards are available for great content creators (we're not really built for FB like activity, but let's just agree to disagree how much Steem is like FB and how much like medium). And why do I think that abusers affect the available rewards that much? Well, because they are. Take a look at this chart from from July 2018, to April 2019, SFR had responded to over 13,500(!!!) instances of abuse. And that's only for those they CAUGHT, 13,500+ upvotes that took rewards from content creators that actually care about the future of our platform, and instead rewarded users that see Steem as nothing more as a cash cow.

This ecosystem needs both curators (those who focus on upvoting quality posts), and abuse fighters (those who try to make the curators VP worth more), those are two sides of the same hammer. You need both for the platform to thrive.

And don't get me started on the risk of the abusers being able to overpower everyone else... we'll be slaves if that happens. And STEEM will rapidly move towards 0.00000001BTC

So basically, curators distribute the rewards, but abuse fighters make sure they actually have enough rewards to distribute

#CleanSTEEM

I have been on steemit going on 3 years this July. Flagging hasn't changed anything.

It is the natural thing for those that have the most "power" to think they know best. For the "good" of everyone. What they end up doing is causing different problems.

I have powered down to almost nothing. When I see things like this, I realize that things won't change anytime soon, and I made the right decision.

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What problems do you think abuse fighting has caused?
How do you think the community should address lame 5 word posts earning 10$ on Steem?

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Thank you for your comments.

Active abuse fighters and supporters also get added to the antiabuse trail. You have been added

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Thanks very much! :D

Not sure about joining the flagtrail; it would be something to consider when I'm taking a break from posting. Meanwhile, I've upped my delegation a little.

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That makes sense. Flagging certainly brings out a vast difference of opinion!

Interesting indeed! I am still ashamed to say that I have yet to downvote a post or comment; I simply ignore them. However, now that my stake is growing I think I have a responsibility to start doing so. This may be my opportunity. Thanks for sharing!

Posted using Partiko iOS

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The passive approach isn't so bad. There is a lot of terrible content though, and a small sacrifice each week is doable for the good of the platform I think.

This is AWESOME!!!! I have been wanting to help fight abuse and I used to a while back. But it consumed a lot of my time and in my current position I don’t have much of that. I am going to get my account setup ASAP. I thanks for sharing how this can be accomplished. These posts getting over rewarded wouldn’t happen without the use of...... I know... bidbots. I couldn’t help myself. Lol

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Ahh sweet!

A mixed bag of comments today, but I'm glad that it could well be an aid to someone who just lacked the time.

Good luck getting registered :)

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I have noticed. Lol. Flags are a Love hate thing I guess. HAHAHA

Posted using Partiko iOS

Thanks for reminding me about @flagtrail! I see there is quite some discussion if SP should be used for flags or not. I can't be as active these days as I was before and had the situation a couple of times now that my acc was idle at 100% VP. I think my SP is better used for flags than going idle, so I've set up the flagtrail subscription with a 95% VP limit. Let's see how it goes... :D

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A lot of discussion, yes.

Good to see you sparing a little for the reduction of rewards to poor content :)

Free kebabs to all that flag with the trail!

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I do love a kebab, when drunk, at 3 am :D

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Sounds like a British thing.

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It is, they taste like ass in the UK, you ONLY eat them when you are drunk. You will die otherwise.

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I must be made of steel. I always eat it straight when I was in the UK.

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I'm so tough...I once drove by some chavs during the holidays and yelled "Happy Christmas, chavs!"

And quickly drove off.

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How does a Mormon from Utah end up in England harassing the locals?

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I think everyone says that. 😂

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@mrkebab What is the reason you are flagging my comments?

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Oh, you know...just “doing good for the community.”

Amirite?

Let me know about this flagtrail initiative - one can flag a lot here as of various reasons - good reason but mainly the type of people get flagged that only harm the reward pool by a very low percentage while the real rapers sit on seats no one aims to touch with flags as of various reasons: Fear, Relations and others.

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It’s always the same. The worst “abusers” are never downvoted because everyone is scared of being downvoted themselves. So they go after the < 50 SP accounts that are getting the penny upvotes, downvote them to zero, then upvote themselves $0.50 for doing such an awesome job of “protecting the community from abuse!”

It’s the same kind of reward scheming that the “abusers” engage in, but the “abuse fighters” just slap the slogan ”FOR THE GOOD OF STEEM!!!” on their “initiative.”

I’m sure you’ve seen this repeated many times since 2016.

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Bullshit. We have flags against orca and whale alts. You don't have to take my word for it. It's on the blockchain, my dude.

We are assuming risk and chingos of flags. I'm telling you the evidence is there. It's not hidden. Do us all a favor and query all incoming flags on @steemflagrewards mentions. I can do it for you if you don't know how. Thanks

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Have the same impression - not all are abusing it but some for sure do since 2016 - no idea why you got flagged for this.

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Because he mingled facts with fiction.

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I usually appreciate all his comments as he is one of the few realistic people here that calls out issues

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Calling out issue is one thing. Mixing in fake news for the sake of a point is something I detest.

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And most of the times, lack of resources.

It's not as easy to deter someone with whale level SP. This is demonstrated again with the recent thousands of comment spam that the frontends had to make invisible.

It's a dedicate balance to hit what you can actually knock down. Otherwise, several things can happen.

  1. Abuser carries on, you didn't make a dent to profit, but focusing on the big one causes the little ones to grow unchecked.

  2. Big guy comes swinging back, lowering/hamper your growth, while still reaping themselves. Smaller abusers get a temporary (or longer) growth spurt.

etc.

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Thanks for explaining

woof, this is kind of surprising, the way user was misusing it.

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Woof, this is kind of
Surprising, the way user
Was misusing it.

                 - vibesforlife


I'm a bot. I detect haiku.

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What did i misuse?
Stupid bot
huh

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It's a bot.

You wrote an accidental haiku. It's just pointing it out.

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oh, I will google what Haiku is, I don't know.

Congratulations @abh12345!
Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following category:

  • Comments - Ranked 4 with 107 comments

Hi @abh12345!

Your post was upvoted by @steem-ua, new Steem dApp, using UserAuthority for algorithmic post curation!
Your UA account score is currently 6.941 which ranks you at #98 across all Steem accounts.
Your rank has dropped 1 places in the last three days (old rank 97).

In our last Algorithmic Curation Round, consisting of 219 contributions, your post is ranked at #1. Congratulations!

Evaluation of your UA score:
  • You've built up a nice network.
  • The readers appreciate your great work!
  • Great user engagement! You rock!

Feel free to join our @steem-ua Discord server

While I don't believe that zero value content should be rewarded, I disagree that it constitutes abuse. I prefer to focus my VP on promoting quality content.

Posted using Partiko Android

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I also prefer to use the vast majority of my VP to reward content I value. I think my flags this week will total about 1% of my VP.

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Pretend it's curation (in the other direction) then.

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What is the other direction of positivity?

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Better content is more visible.

I know what you are saying, but positivity obviously hasn't done anything by itself. People stacking coins will always be better at getting rewards than you rewarding "good content". They will always be more visible than your good content.

Those are facts.

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Joke's on you. I'm stacking coins and making poor quality content!

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I prefer to focus my VP on promoting quality content.

lol okay.

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I do prefer upvoting quality content. I, unfortunately, lack the skill to write it myself.

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Kinda hard when you delegate most of it out.

It's much easier to say you delicate your SP to worthwhile projects.

Magic Dice has rewarded your post with a 58% upvote. Thanks for playing Magic Dice.