Please ignore my downvotes
This account has close to zero voting power (19 SP) and is currently beta testing some scripts that might do some spurious downvoting at 7% of voting power. This currently means it's downvotes (spurious or correct) should set you back about $0.0004.
P.S: Don't upvote it because this account is meant to be a minimal voting power account for testing purposes like this and upvoting might increase its power to cause inadvertent harm.
P.P.S: Don't flag this post, because doing so might hide this post, explaining why and how of these low powered downvotes, from others. If you DO downvote this post your account name WILL get added to the example config file for the script collection.
How were users downvoted selected for this list? Does a downvote indicate that we are already on some list to randomly fuck people over in a non uniform arbitrary manner?
The threat to downvote people who you downvote I find very unethical but I haven't and don't plan to downvote.
If you or your culture makes any rules please post and give people a first chance and let them off the hook for the first time after they acknowledge they understand the rules so there is some element of due process and notice. Additionally some sort of independent appeals process would be nice.
If you downvoters don't comply with that then I find that especially messed up and detriminetal to the steemit community. Steemit helps people organize and collaborate. How does letting people hurting people in arbitrary non uniformly enforced manner help anything?
Who gets hurt? You just claim something stupid. Its fucking digital. Numbers and Words. You just want to take away the free vote.
I have been testing and am now investigating the logs of the script paybothater.py that is meant to allow steemit users that believe pay bots are decremental to the steemit platform to use the excess voting power to counter the pay bot buisiness model. The script tries to identify payment transactions to pay bots, and then tries to counter the upvote by the pay bot. I'll be stopping this test run later today in order to move on to testing an anti-comment bot script.
Testing of this script has been paused for now. I'll be going through the logs looking for false positives.
Remember, this is just one of a series of scripts meant to allign with different people's ideas about countering reward pool abuse. Eventually it will be up to the individual users if they prefer using their excess voting powers for downvoting pay bot users, downvoting comment bot comment upvotes by page owners, downvoting self-upvoted comments, etc.
If the rules are not uniformly enfoced and everyone always downvoted equally 100% of the time I worry such system will just help the powerful fuck over minority share holders while increasing rewards value. I really don't understand how any sort of content based downvote can possibly help the platform, the platform should build people up not let malcontents interfere with others voluntarily associating in my opinion.
I will follow whatever the market decides but ceteris paribus I think the entire downvote culture and even the assumed negative value of spam very questionable. Lots of bullshit meaningless shit that isnt spam, at least spam is clear, if we want the network producing things of value that are able to be found by its audience with minimum transaction costs, seems openly accepting spam, but perhaps tweaking the math so people can openly do spam at rate x, but people who dont do spam can do so safely at rate y, and maybe punsihment of rate z or other incentives if people defect and try to pass off spam at a higher pay rate.
People assume spam and other things are bad, when it is only bad depending on what the purpose of steem and the network is. If it is to be public sphere and efficiently exchange ideas and value, then it seems doing more to protect investment backed expectations would help normalize the markets and make it so people are more confident in the network.
I hope you appreciate how much time has been cost by your valueless downvotes, and that ironically in a certain way it is the same time vampirer of spam and the things enabled by vote selling and vote trading.
The bot didn't do any "content based" downvotes. The downvotes are triggered by paid-for upvotes, not by the posts themselves. People pay money to a whale or orca owned bot that than blindly deals out a strong upvote without any quality checks on the content. The idea is that indiscriminate upvoting by paid for upvote bots is decremental to the quality of posts on steemit as it allocated a substantial chunk of the reward pool to content least diserving of an upvote. The down-vote bot aims to attenuate this effect. Rest assured, the bot won't be running with worthless votes the next time. I'm working on a new version that will only trigger for upvotes it can attenuate with exactly 10% of the worth of the triggering paid for upvote. The idea is that if enough people will run these bots on their accounts, market forces should do the rest through the leverage effect. If you have great content, than using the pay bot should get you the extra exposure that in turn should get you more votes and a provitable end result. If you use payed for vote bots to make money on crap posts, the 10% decrease in pay out might just tip the balance to making paying for an upvote unprofitable, taking away the insentive to use vote bots for crap content.
"The Medium is the Message." And the information contained in upvote bots is that people want more exposure than their organic network and their investment in community building and reciprocity have gathered. This also provides stability in the markets for SP delegation. Without vote buying, there would be way more concentrated power in the ancients and less fluidity for the best to move up. Vote buying also helps the rule makers better identify those who do not add but only take.
I still don't understand why not just accept spam/upvotes purely for value with no to little proof of brain and let that be done at a certain lower rate if they are cooperative about it. But if they try to counterfeit then punish. And then compensate anything that passes as sufficient proof of brain at a higher rate. That way at least a lot of the spam market would instantly be destroyed?
I don't understand interventions that try to go upstream of market forces instead of not being a dick.
I am not going to be making spam or anything. But I will not respond kindly to downvotes. I am actively creating free video lessons and content released public domain so anyone can use it anyway they want. Business is done on the margins, so only so much of an expected payout can before it will become unprofitable to continue doing that and just have to leave if this culture develops.
How is the time vampire of your bot testing not equally as fucked up as spam?
Why can't these rule makers focus on making a great platform rather than fucking people over?
furthermore this is likely to just push the vote buying underground? How are you going to monitor MinnowBooster or other entrepreneurs? It seems like absent some other intervention your intervention if successful is just going to drive the vote buying you dislike underground so it will be harder for you to monitor and affect than it was currently? And all the external actors that are going to have to pay higher search and transaction fees trying to use the higher priced markets due to your intervention attacking market centralization will only hurt minnows and dolphins who lack bargaining power and are likely hurt most from information asymmetries.
I humbly ask you to consider whether you intervention really has a good likelihood of affecting steem in a positive manner? I seriously don't think so, especially if it is across the board downvotes rather than only ones with insufficient proof of brain.
I just created this post asking for input on three different down-vote bots. I've made some major changes, both to the voting power strategy and to the previously indiscriminate part of the vote bot upvote attenuation. Most notably the added use of the age of the post being upvotes prompted by grumpycat's recent downvoting activity where he distinguishes between early bot aided " promotional" use of self upvotes and late bot aided "money making" self upvotes. While grumpycat uses a surrogate (the voting bot used allowing late usage) my bot will use the actual post age itself, so reducing the false positive rate to zero. Please have a look at the whole blog post to understand my project. I'm sure you will see the good these bots will do, and maybe you could even add a bot idea of yourself.
Would it not be possible to create some of your own accounts to do this testing?
Or ask a group of people if they don't mind being involved in this potentially useful experiment?
I have had a couple of people come to me and ask why they are getting the down-votes, and that's after reading the explanatory posts - Some folks just post about butterflies and rainbows and cant see the positive in being flagged as part of an experiment!
Cheers!
I've started on a "demo" mode that uses upvote where non-demo would down-vote that I'll be using in the future. The false positive rate was relatively low, by the way, so most (minimally powered) downvotes seem to have been non-spurious. I think I have a handle on removing the false positives by delaying downvotes to the moment of an actual upvote. But there might be a bigger problem as you point out in the fact that the down-vote is perceived as being targeted against a post, while the concept of this script was attenuation of the paid-for upvote. That is, the upvote is the actual target of the down-vote, not the post itself, and this seems to create a disconnect.
ok.
So are we talking bot accounts up-votes to self, or paid up votes going onto posts by the post owner?
I assumed you were trying to target comments, and votes on comments by same bot/author?
Thanks for the response.
Let me try to elaborate. After posting some flag war analysis's created by a few scripts of mine, I spoke to a few dolphin sized account owners involved in these quarals on discord and gathered some of the reasoning behind their actions. While I don't agree with the retaliation bits, and the idea of attacking bot owners, there are some real concerns about the ethics of what one person referred to as 'self votes by proxy'. If you consider self vote by proxy as done through invocation of a paid for vote bot as something that hurts the reward pool distribution, then attenuating the adverse effects of these 'false' upvote becomes the mirror image of the @freezepeach initiative that aims to attenuate false downvotes.
My hope would be that providing a script like this could help powefull voters to fight the problem they have with this phenomenon without resorting to flag war tactics. That is, I'm hoping to provide good alternatives for flag wars that addresses the real concerns of the flaggers that proxied self votes through pay bots take away from legitimately currated content.
That is 'this' script.
An other script, and the script I'll be running on my own account, addresses a separate issue. The problem with comment bots. That script looks for upvotes of a specific type and again tries to attenuate these. A comment for will often repeat the same or very similar comment to many different posts in the hope to get comment upvotes. This script looks for upvotes by the author of the original post on a comment by an account identified as comment bot and tries to attenuate that upvote with a down-vote.
Hope this takes away a bit of confusion.
remove your flag from this post : https://steemit.com/photography/@razu788/my-mobile-photography without reason you flag here....
I can't at the moment. I've upvoted your above comment at 100% to compensate (the downvote was at only 10% or 7% depending on when it was issued).
Well seeing as the other guys haven't asked. Why?
Why can't you visit the post and remove the flag?
right... @abh12345
Please remove your downvote to me. Thanks!
I can't at the moment. I've upvoted your above comment at 100% to compensate (the downvote was at only 10% or 7% depending on when it was issued).
Hey, for what exactly did you flag me, I understand you running some test, but I don't quit get why you picked me.
I am testing a number of exces voting power scripts that are meant to not let potential voting power go to waste at the point when the script owner is not there to do curration votes him/her-self and as a result the voting strength reaches (almost 100%). The idea is that a set of different scripts allows for steemit users to allocate their voting strength for purposes meant to improve the allocation of the reward pool.
I am currently using this extremely low powered account so my tests don't actually hurt anyone in a substantial way (The account only has 19 SP in voting power and I've set the voting strength to a mere 7% of that, comming down to 1.33 SP).
I'm currently testing the script paybothater.py that is meant to allow steemit users that believe pay bots are decremental to the steemit platform to use the excess voting power to counter the pay bot buisiness model. The script tries to identify payment transactions to pay bots, and then tries to counter the upvote by the pay bot. I'll be stopping this test run later today in order to move on to testing an anti-comment bot script.
The anti-comment bot script will be looking for upvotes by page owners on comments to their page that the commenter made in almost identical ways multiple times before, and then try to counter these upvotes with a matching downvote as far as this can be done using only the excess voting power.
The eventual idea is that steemit users can pick whatever script best fits with their ideas of reward pool abuse. For some that could be comment bots. For others that could be comment self-upvotes. For yet others it could be upvote pay bots. I'm not taking stands here, just trying to provide a script for as many conceivable ideas about reward pool abuse as i can come up with.
You downvoted my content today without cause, to further your own pet project. Great. In my opinion, you're wasting an incredible amount of energy to spread bad karma. What a waste of the technical expertise you appear to possess...
I don't have any qualms about a user downvoting me, if they actually read or watch my content and find it disagreeable. That's life. What you're doing is just as ethical or unethical as the bots you purport to fight. The difference is, your bothater script will be doing it with power bestowed by the system for FREE, while the people it hurts paid for a bit of an upvote with THEIR OWN MONEY they have EARNED already. That's just plain unfair and wrong!
In addition, you are hurting the little guys, the ones who need help making it against the overwhelming deep pockets of the whales, who can push their content at will.
Case in point: I spend a lot of time and thought on all my posts, but I don't have enough followers yet to get any return near fair compensation for my efforts. So I use bots to gain a bit of traction and believe me, it's a SLOOOW process, recycling the same money over and over. Painful, and only profitable in the long run. I don' t mind, I'm in it for the long haul. Am I raping the reward pool?
I once spent several weeks to produce a professional documentary video EXCLUSIVELY for the Steem blockchain:
https://steemit.com/travel/@folker-wulff/voelklingen-ironworks-germany-saarland
(Don't upvote - OLD!) By the time I was done I got a ridiculous amount after 24 hours, just a few dollars. So I boosted it a little, the SBD ran up to 3.00 USD by pure chance, and I netted 200 Euros or so, for WEEKS of work!!! But it paid for the gas and the coffee.
And now you want to come with a shitty little script and piss on people like me? That's just wrong, friend!
Do you know what will happen? At the first unjustified downvote from your script, I will mobilize hell and high water to destroy your script's and your personal vote power as often as I can. And what do you think the commercial bot owners will do? The first full downvote of the day will be reserved just to kick YOUR ASS - and, boy, they can kick!
If you're sowing wind you will reap storm! And what will it get us, except bad karma and hard feelings?
I hope you will rethink your project and not release such negative code in the wild. Use your talent for something positive, please. I don't think you're a bad guy. You just haven't thought it through.
This may come across as strange, but the whole idea of these scripts is to accommodate some of the big hitters that are now involved in flag wars, allowing them to address their concerns about reward pool distribution. In the end a more fair reward pool distribution should benefit the little guys most.
The base idea is non-curation upvotes take away from genuinely curration driven upvotes.
I'm trying to be neutral in such a way that I aim to provide a different away bot for different views on what constitutes reward pool distribution abuse.
If there is a useful script for every concerned dolphin/orca/whale it's views on this, I hope their goals can be unified without the huge flag wars we see today.
That is, use flags constructively to attenuate false upvotes by whatever the script users definition of false upvotes is
Hope I'm at least making some sense here.
So, who made you boss with the mission to judge the value of "non-curation" upvotes? How do you get so conceited to presume to know what's good for hundreds of thousands of other users? God complex?
Your fine and noble "curation-driven" upvotes suckered me into investing in that video - and when I NEEDED THEM they chose to curate something else. So - BULLSHIT! But I'm not complaining, I take care of myself. Just leave the ecosystem the f. ck alone; it works fine the way it is.
From where I as one am standing, those votes I can buy for small money are a godsend and are giving me a chance to get heard. I tried to explain that already.
I came here for political reasons, to get away from censorship against conservative voices in Germany under the guise of fighting "hate speech".
People who presumed to know what's good for everybody (sound familiar?) turned my country - one of the most successful places in the world - into a failing cesspool of crime, rape, and violence. A rift like never before going through society, public order slowly collapsing, to the point where only censorship can keep the system going.
So I come here and have to put up with the same bullshit? Leave well enough alone - you'll be doing us all the biggest favor. (Remember, I will not be cowed.)
Still waiting for an answer regarding @randystieffer. (ASKED AND ANSWERED ELSEWHERE - THANK YOU)
And a few more questions:
Do you think I will be doing an extensive video production like the one I mentioned any time soon?
Will I keep my money in this ecosystem, promoting my posts, or will I cash out and run with your script out there?
To make money here, I also could invest a few thou, post shallow bullshit like cat photos and such, upvote them myself, and still find enough suckers to vote along. Is that the Steemit you want?
E-X-A-C-T-L-Y !!!
Think you are missing the point. The "boss" is all of us here according to SP and how we all choose to use it. What I am trying to do is provide the tools to allow people to exersise their democratic right to improve the steemit eco system how they feel it should operate. Have an other way you think will contribute to making the reward pool more fair by using excess voting power to attenuate unfairness with directed DV's, just add an issue to the github project and I'll work on making it part of the set.
Again, I just ran a short test with downvotes worth tiny fractions of a cent. If, when the bugs are out, minnows, dolphins or even orca's or whales opt to use one of my scripts is up to them. I'm just writing whatever I believe expresses the concerns I've heard on discussions, that could include your own concerns if you can explain them in a way that could allow me to write a script for it.
No, friend, YOU are missing the point. Edward Teller, the inventor of the H-bomb, wasn't a bad man. He just wanted to "provide the tools" to force apple pie and the American way on all mankind 'cause daddy knows best.
Don't you see? You're providing a tool that allows the money men to kill the remedy free market forces have created for the great unwashed masses.
I mean no offense, honest, but the term "useful idiot" springs to mind. Just to make the point one last time in the strongest way.
If you haven't got it so far you never will. I will not crochet a cozy for your H-bomb on Github, of course not.
Just keep away from my posts and we'll stay friends.
Be well - Folker
So, you upvoted my earlier comment with both accounts. Thank you, but that's a tad cheap, don't you think? I wrote that huge comment because I was interested in what you had to say for yourself beyond what I read here already.
I had planned to ask you about this bit here, which sounds to uninitiated me like blackmail:
"If you DO downvote this post your account name WILL get added to the example config file for the script collection."
You downvote other people, working on automating the process, but at the same time, you're trying to bully them into not fighting back in kind?
What about @randystieffer? Is he going to hell now?
Care to reply?
I'll probably remove him from the config soon. Point about that possible is that this post is here to explain the tests. If it would get flagged into invisibility. Randy did a DV powered almost 200 times that of the script so I had to upvote myself to assure continued visibility. I have no chance of countering really high powered DVs of this post, but as users way more powerfully than me have expressed interest in using my scrips, the prospect of ending up in the config hopefully should make people think twice about flagging this post into invisibility. In any case, I'll clean up the config if the post is still visible tomorow.
Yeah, I got that. Which is cool, although the experiment as such is not (without consent). I was considering downvoting myself, or downvoting your other account, and it hit me: this is not kindergarten. You haven't done any damage, but you will. Let's see if we can get you to quit your evil ways.
I got what you are going to say in here but why is in the world you choose my post?
There may have some where you can use it as testing your bot or something or you can even test on your post or could be some of your friend with permission.
What you have done in there which is just abusing the downvote.
Anyway will you remove your downvote from my post https://steemit.com/writing/@thirdeye7/humanity-of-a-person-and-the-personality-of-a-human
The idea of the script isn't to down-vote the post, specifically, but to attenuate the upvote by a voting bot. This test run was done at minimum strength. Seems though both the intent of the script and the minimum power of the DVs doesn't quite allign with how the DVs are perceived .
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NOTIFYScript currently being tested is the paybothater.py script.