Bitcoin vs Eos-Understanding the drama

in #bitcoin6 years ago (edited)

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Before I get started-I hold both coins. While I might seem way more probitcoin it because I have a way different definition of decentralization. However after reading a bunch of pro-EOS posts and even getting Dan himself commenting on my comment I shall try to paint a unbias picture. To make it even less bias-er I hold both Bitcoin and EOS. Now let begin!

The basic structure:
Bitcoin and EOS have very different ideology. Bitcoin is made to be sovereign state ristant. No one-not even the miners could block TXs/amounts of bitcoin without splitting the chain. The full nodes all record the data and make sure that no fake bitcoins are created nor double spends are made.

https://twitter.com/lopp/status/1009401562089783296
Plus HF are messy to begin with. You are bound to create another coin by prosping diff rules to the blockchain.

EOS is made to be an OS of blockchains. Like OS where you can delete what you think is bad-EOS is the same. You feel like deleting bad things when sometimes you realized it was a mistake so you bring it back. EOS is not as decentralization as Bitcoin. Does it need to be? Is the definition of decentralization the same in EOS? Nope and Nope.
For one EOS does not need to be as decentralized as Bitcoin, it just needs to be a never shutting down platform that super fast. Bitcoin micks Gold. The basic definition of decentralization is the process of redistributing or dispersing functions, powers, people or things away from a central location or authority. EOS kinda does that buy it voting right.
However it also gives it power to its earliest token holders causing some people to call EOS a Oligarchy. Why do they say it? Well in Bitcoin you can maybe develop an asic so good that you can be part of mining process. Another thing is that Full nodes are considered more important that miner nodes at some moments. In bitcoin-Nodes are thought to be the ones really voting. EOS could argue with the fact the tokens=citizen of the "country"
**Only citizen should control their own country/chain. **

Ok let me talk about the mining issue that people say is making bitcoin centralized.
What many people see miner they think it=Bitcoin.
Instead Bitcoin=more of a chaos based system.
With some much chaos to control is to hard..

Bitcoin miner are half of control of bitcoin. **
One thing is that miner pool don't equal miners. T
hink of miners as another asset on bitcoin that votes on Bitcoin Blocks. They delegate their rigs to pools which represent them. If those miners do disagree they can undelagte it.**

Yes it still bad(FU bitmain) the major pool probably hold 40% of the rigs in their pools.

However with a new proposal will make force pools to give their power to miners which would give a better representation of who controls what. Plus no HF is needed!!!!
https://www.ccn.com/betterhash-bitcoin-core-dev-proposes-new-protocols-to-decentralize-bitcoin-mining/

Bitcoin node system is also fighting with the miners.
Bitcoin node can declare UASF and UAHF and with the LN nodes get paid for their service as well.
Is it the best system-No. If a way to loosen Bitmain control on the asics is found with a POW change(No cobra we won't do it). Miner are still a critical part of Bitcoin.

Let me go over what Dan said to me:

While it might seem easier to seize 51% of hash power on bitcoin I wouldn't say it makes it even less sovereign state resistant than EOS.



Bitcoin after the 2x agreement set the precedent that nodes matter sometimes more powerful than miners-well full nodes. UASF and USHF everyone!!!
Bitcoin could also always just change its POW algorithm. When that happens, there would be huge chain splits. The gov will have to attack at diff angles. And the nodes storing at diff location would keep track of previous data.

EOS holders could be centered around few people. It probably won't happen but there is a greater fear in EOS. Plus not all eos holders will vote... Plus voting for another top 21 in less than 3 minutes will lead to huge mistakes on whom you voted in. We are humans after all-Both POW and DPOS are both systems that depends on diff ideologies.

Plus they could attack the top 21 at 21 diff location instead of attacking all bitcoin nodes and miners. If Top 21 producers join together and decide to make a coup to the whole thing that would also lead the same result of someone 51% bitcoin worse bc EOS is newer and challenging what decentralization means normally.

What do I mean?

Saw this on reddit:

What's "great" is that the 21 block producers are all working in background to address this situation. What's not great about that is 21 people are working in a "back room" to figure out what is going on and are going to "take care of it"..."everything is under control." Right now, they control when this chain will be restarted.

Guess what, those BPs are going to start developing relationships with one another, even though these people are supposed to have little in common, due to being globally distributed- thus ostensibly reducing the possibility of collusion. Of course, they have a lot in common now, as big holders of EOS, operators of the network, and recipients of the block rewards. Some of them are going to like each other, while some will not like each other. They will start to clique off into subgroups. And then they may eventually start to disagree with one another (if EOS is lucky). Or, in a possibly worse scenario, they'll all agree with each other, and simply bend things in ways that benefit them. Together, they likely control enough tokens to vote and keep each other in power.

This is how cartels are born. Call it FUD if you want, but it's just a plausible analysis of what could happen, and even sooner than potentially expected. Not all cartels outwardly wear a cartel mask. The rushed nature of EOS deployment could even hasten the development of these types of dynamics (if BPs are constantly working together to solve problems, since block.one has thrown up their hands in a sense).

Block producers of a decentralized blockchain should not have to work together in such ways. It creates an obvious risk of collusion in the operation of the network.

EOS is a rapid change of thinking. Bitcoin was made during a time when people were afraid of someone taking their money away. Hence why Bitcoin can't just censor/delete coins. That seems like a good thing right?
However I always got angry on the fact a scammer is getting away with something. I at the moment want it to be blocked. They should not get away with their crime. EOS has a social aspect that makes it more human. However like a human it can be corrupted. As long as you can trick the people thinking it a good idea-it the right decision. An example I hate to use it but the Nazis are example of this. They convinced a whole nation that Jews were bad! Ok not everyone but you got the picture...

Ok let me go over the fact EOS/many altcoins supporters say Bitcoin Mining is a waste of energy.

I kinda like POS

But current POS has a flaw who know it could be made better. People are researching them. DPOS does look like one of the best types of POS
Currently POW is better in my opinion.
While yes POW does seems like an energy waste it not. This work is necessary to make the chain secure. In POS, the stakers who owns 10% of the supply will mint 10% of the supply, and won't cost them anything much.
In, POW you have to battle against everything. You have to buy new miners to keep up, pay electricity, cool the machines, buy new ones.

Pos makes it so that 51 attacks are harder bc they are little their investments on the line. Pow is somewhat even harsher. Not only will their rewards lower if 51% attack done, the coin down=machines useless. This is amplified by asic machines which effectively locks the minier rig to mine only that coin.
Pow can be improved even more by making useful mining aka finding primenumbers. This is being researched in bitcoin-atleast that what Coindesk said.

Also POW in theory should encourage miner to look for greener energy and maybe already doing it.
Plus POW can make energy not get wasted. Read more about it here:
https://steemit.com/mining/@sames/bitcoin-mining-pow-the-truth

You could still disagree and say it is wasteful but here is another post supporting my point:
https://hackernoon.com/the-bitcoin-vs-visa-electricity-consumption-fallacy-8cf194987a50

However there is no denying the fact that EOS is energy efficient and fast, Bitcoin can reach the same speed(plus go even faster) by using the LN. LN can also do complexish smart contracts.
However EOS flaws do have huge benifts:
EOS does not suffer from latency problems as bitcoin does.
Bitcoin encourages full nodes for everyone-another reason why LN is here. EOS bc of their small amount of nodes does not have much latency. What do I mean? Well in Blockchains, each nodes has to relay the information to each other-this causes delay and can even lead to invalid blocks. This is why Bitcoin BTC can't just increase its blocks-more information to relay to each other. EOS has 21 producers as such it will have way less latency. With less latency you can have faster block times which means more tps. Is it a good thing? Right what I wrote before and decide yourself.


**EOS is a major shift in thinking in the crypto world. I don't like it but we also need to see it. EOS is the U.S.A of cryptocurrency. No crypto is fully decentralized bc we are humans but Bitcoin is the most.
EOS needs a lot of prove and it system/governance needs to do better than blocking users. It redemption is apps. If it can prove that then it main selling point is accommodated for real world usage.
This post was already way to long. For example the thing where your eos gets takes from you if you don't use the EOS-ouch. I guess I shall keep it in an exchange!

By the way if you see any types please tell me while I don't get paid for this much I like to keep my information right! I know I did not talk about other issues.
I by no means am an expert but I feel like I got most of the problems between each other down :)

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Beautifully written my friend and I agree with everything. You know that I like and hold both. I just don’t know why EOS dpos is made of 21 BP? If there is 100 block producers, EOS and its dpos would be closer to perfect...

Thanks :)
I was honestly surprised when Dan himself commented to me :)

Also I think this is somewhat your answer to the 21 BP:

EOS will launch with 21 core validators (plus ~100 more backup producers that are also compensated). 21 is not a magic number, and that number may change over time. But it is informed empirically based on Dan Larimer’s past experiences building DPoS systems like BitShares and Steem. BitShares, Larimer’s first blockchain, launched with 101 block producers. Larimer has since learned that, due to the natural cartelization of all open systems including Bitcoin and Ethereum, that in practice open systems don’t support more than about 20 independent actors. The choice of 21 validators attempts to balance decentralization, performance, and governance based on prior experiences.

101 bp on Bitshares were better. He left Bitshares because he wanted inflation on BTS but he couldn't achieve consensus for that. From one side with 101 BP is hard to be united on anything but it is more decentralized...

This is the only answer I found online so yeah I knew it was shitty. I think Dan knows the flaw but wants the speed and the quick agreement so the platform can start building

Make sense. When EOS start working you can make some adjustments and on EOS you can do that without hard fork.

Explained very well. As per my thinking i will hold alt coins rather than bitcoin as alt coins performe better than bitcoin whenever Bitcoin is bit stable. However i strongly agree that bitcoin is and always will be crypto leader.

thanks for the feedback :)

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