Curation: How you doin'?

in #bisteemit3 years ago (edited)

How well are you curating, financially speaking? Are you making the best use of your Steem Power and votes?

In this post I'm going to try and show, using some Steemit friends, a possible method to working out just how well your curation skills rank against other Steemians.


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Curation and it's rewards system is a complex beast. The structure of the how the rewards are decided upon for each voter have been explained many times in detail, and here's two I found (via google search, well done @calamus056) which I think do a good job:

https://steem.io/getinvolved/paid-to-curate/

https://steemit.com/steemit/@calamus056/curation-rewards-explained-in-great-detail

My takeouts from the above, and general opinion is:

  • Voting at 0 minutes will earn a 0.000 curation reward

  • Voting under 15 minutes will earn VERY little unless you have a lot of Steem Power

  • Voting between 15 and 29 minutes will earn an increasing % of the curation reward split

  • The goal is to get in prior to the big hitters, but not too early in that your % in the 2nd point isn't too low (e.g. 16 minutes)

  • It is commonly suggested that 25-30 minutes is the 'best' time to stick a vote in (especially on known power-authors posts because they are likely to have more auto-votes coming in at these times)

As you can see, a combination of many variables such as Steem Power, voting strength, voting weight, and time of vote, (and more) all play a part in the amount of reward received. Is there a skill to it though? And how well I am doing?

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Now this is the point where this blog could crash and burn. Without a good level of knowledge of 'SteemSQL', @arcange's lovely invention, coupled with the information I've received from others in that curation data is tough to un-earth, I've used the following method to obtain what I need for this example.

  • Use steemit.com Wallet to collect Steem Power and + or - the leased/delegated steem

  • Use the 'Rewards' drop-down menu to find 'Curation rewards' for the previous week

Therefore, my data is gathered manually, and the curation period is only for the previous week. This is obviously not ideal and reduces the potential to widen the results set (maybe I can get some help with this, anyone?)

My results set is as follows:

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The key columns are:

  • Curation: Total curation rewards for the previous week

  • SP Total: Total vested Steem Power (including delegated SP)

  • Curation/SP %: The % of curation rewarded Steem Power in relation to amount of Steem Power owned

This final column is what I feel is a genuine indicator of how well you are working the curation game with the tools (including vested Steem Power) that you have at your disposal.

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Imagine you have 10,000 Steem Power, and I have 1,000 Steem Power.

After a week curating, the rewards for both of us are 1 SP each.

In my mind, I'm working my Steem Power 10 X harder - If you, in this example earned curation rewards of 10 SP, then I would say we were curating with equal skill.

(If you are with me here and agree, I'm starting to feel happier about myself and the time spent working this post)

The % of curation rewarded Steem Power in relation to amount of Steem Power owned


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  • We have Steem Power ranging from 3.2 Million, right down to 629.
  • Voting power between 42% and 100%

and

  • A curation reward % of between 0.025% and 0.205%

The difference between 0.025% and 0.205% is almost 8 X more curation reward relative to vested Steem Power - quite a lot!

So what are you saying here Asher?

@osm0sis, a 6 week old user is curating (financially) more effectively than @curie, @booster, and the mighty @blocktrades, as well as our number one witness @good-karma?

I think so! But I will need some reassurance here!
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  • It could be that it's impossible to manage that much SP effectively with regards to curation rewards?

  • @osm0sis may have had a lucky week? Yes but what about @xervantes who also has a high Curation/SP %

  • Maybe all users with less than 5/6000 SP did better than the bigger accounts? Thanks @dandesign86 for ruling that one out!

  • If I followed @osm0sis or @xervantes in a trail would it be more profitable than trailing @curie?

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This post has raised more questions than answers to me - answers I hope you guys can help with. So before i finish up, just a few more points:

  • If you have spotted any glaring errors in my post, please let me know so I can fix them (or start from scratch!)

  • If you would like to be in my personal curation league (that doesn't exist just yet) let me know.

  • If you have better % than @osm0sis or any other comments, let me know below.

And finally...

  • I feel that curation should be about finding awesome content and giving it an up-vote, irrelevant of the curation rewards you might receive.

Thanks for reading today, comment below to help reduce my voting power further!

Asher


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Just skimmed it, looks like a lot of great info going to save for a deeper read later.

Voting under 15 minutes will earn 0.000 curation reward

is this true? I am not sure, while it is much reduced it is not 0. As an example I am going to 100% vote this post at 9 mins and lets see

Thanks for taking part in the experiment!

I've read a few articles today, and just found another that support a close to 0 (but not quite!) payout on curation if you vote in the first 15 mins.

https://steemit.com/steemit/@vapekings14/the-truth-about-upvotes-curation-rewards-and-author-rewards

looking slightly better here as its reported that the scale goes up from 0 mins..

https://steemit.com/steem-help/@sykochica/answering-common-questions-about-voting-and-curation

I may adjust my text slightly :)

Cheers!

New curation post out - couldn't include you this week as you delegated a bunch of SP and sent my chart crazy!

Hey

Any idea of your curation reward for voting here at 9 mins?

Ash

I received 0.441 SP, not sure what I had in my voting power at that time, I think maybe 20,000 SP.

Of the 8 votes I made that day it was the biggest reward and I usually vote after 15 mins.

Here's a link https://steemdb.com/@fiveboringgames/curation/2017-10-04

it a good site and you may be able to gleam more info

Great thanks for checking up. So from 1 minute onwards is earning curation, good to know, cheers.

Nice post and interesting topic. Check @htliao, he is doing very well, and no auto bot upvote from his account.

Hi @tumutanzi

Thank you for your vote and comments, I will check @htliao soon and see how he's doing. Thanks!

Hi @tumuntanzi

I have done the stats for @htliao and he is indeed doing well. He would be 2nd place in my chart!

p.s. I know Sheffield quite well, I think the city is getting nicer the past 10 years.

Thanks!

hi @tumutanzi - I have a new curation post out - you are in the middle of the table, and @htliao is doing well again!

Nice

Nice self-vote! :D

Thanks for the great info. The other thing I find confusing is that lots of posts say not to vote if there are already lots of votes. When you wait 30mins, good posts by popular authors have lots of votes. It makes voting for humans, rather than bots, very difficult!

Hi @seajai

Yes this is another tricky factor, and I think it is in place to make rewarding new (non-bot ready) user accounts the most profitable. E.g. @curie is doing well in my stats and they aim for this type of content.

Thanks for your comments and good luck!

Love this post. Well done on collecting this data. i know you have been interested in this for a while. When I start curating more, you can add me to your list. Resteemed, and also thinking about the qustions this poses

Thank you @paulag!

I'm glad you remember me mentioning it to some of the #bisteemit members a few weeks back. And also happy you are having a think on the questions. I'll push you for some answers later!

Cheers!

Of course I remember, because the idea is good. we need to set you up with a way to automate this

Oh I'd love that!

Curation Leagues 😁

If the reward could be found for the previous week then that would be fine.

The league or leagues (split by minnow/whale following/followers etc) would constantly be changing I think, and could be a nice weekly post.

Automation would be good. If anyone can figure out a way to pull this data then please count me in.

Dude, you have romped the curation charts this week! How did you do it!?

Combination of luck and hard work trying to identify undervalued authors I'd say. I am also using steemvoter which is helping with the timing of my upvotes.

Well it's put you at the top of my league so well done!

Thanks. We will soon see if it was a one-off fluke I suppose!

Keep up the good work with your analytics.

Great post!

I think that it is easier to have a higher curation relative to SP if you have less SP. My own ratio is 0.1064%, so similar to your own, based off only 44 votes out of 70 for the last 7 days, and putting no thought into financial curation, simply upvoting the things I like.

My purely anecdotal evidence for the above is that my largest curation (a couple of weeks back now) was nearly 10 cents off my (at the time) 2 cent upvote (which I think would scale up to a huge 2.6% off 70 votes on your scale). [It was slipping in ahead of someone who upvotes their own comments on day 6. It was to see the financial impact (the idea being to set up some form of robin hood levy on the return on self upvoting - not that I actually have any problem with the "investment approach", I just think the return on it is too high currently due to whales who don't vote )]. But the large curation came from getting in ahead of a larger upvote, and I'm guessing this doesn't scale if you're a whale.

I think the way to getting "curation data" is to reconstruct it from the underlying rather than extract it. I have some thoughts on this, although it needs more investigation. I'll try to do a response post once I'm finished with the votebots!

Thanks dude!

Good thinking out loud here! I was wondering if smaller SP gave you more leverage compared to a whale, but @curie is high on my list and i also checked another whale today who would be 2nd on the list (see comments in post)...

@osm0sis is always in on my posts before I start with the bots, and uses a larger vote on content she likes. The same is true for the 2nd on my list, using 30-100% vote weight on what he likes. Sooo, more thinking more data required!

new curation post out - did you get any time to data hunt yet? :)

Hey! No, sorry, fighting bad data on the upvote bots the last few days! I'm hoping to get to it soon though!
Nice new post btw!

Bad data - nooo! Good luck over there, and thanks!

I think your final point is the important one. Curating should be about finding great content irrelevant of reward.

I've read so many different theories about curation rewards and when to vote, but what happens when you wait to vote and forget to come back, or you wait to vote and a whale comes in and suddenly the post you found so rewarding gives you hardly any curration because you are no longer amung the first.

I personally gave up on understanding how it all works, and just upvoting the posts I want to upvote whenever I see them. LEt the rewards take care of themselves.

This was a hard decision for me to come by since I am leasing steem power right now and need some curation rewards to feel like I got my money's worth. But the headache of trying to figure out what and when to vote is not worth it. Instead I have fun with handing out my upvote to stuff I like, and let the rest pass under the bridge.

This is very good data though! Well researched and put together. If @paulag helps you automate it, that will be some great tool!

Thanks Mike, great comments!

Personally the rewards from curation are too small to make it stressful, you need a lot of SP to make a 'worthwhile' sum - check the data above to see what's a worthwhile amount to you.

Hopefully we can get something going with the #bisteemit team, I would love to see the stats for the whole community on this.

Cheers!

Asher

Lots of interesting stuff - thanks for posting, it clearly has taken a lot of time and effort!!

From my perspective, I have decided not to worry about the timing of my upvotes and trying to maximize my return. Sure, over the long-term an additional few % now will make a big difference, but on the flipside, if STEEMIT is alive and kicking in 5 years time, then I am not sure I will need to worry too much about a few $ here and there

I vary my % upvote according to how good I feel a post to be and to my voting power at the time, but otherwise I just vote for stuff that I like when I see it - and comment of course...

Cheers

I think that's the best way to go, don't worry about it and keep voting what interests you. I suspect the financial rewards might be less, but it's in favour of health of Steemit.

Cheers for your comments 😁

Am sure you're right, but my account is very small relative to others and to my mainstream investments - and the difference between small and small - is small

I am pondering double or tripling down - at that point it may make sense to take a slightly more scientific approach. But it needs to stay fun!!

Cheers

I've added you to this weeks Curation data :)

I've added you to this weeks Curation data :)

The power of thought...:) Just today I was thinking about influence of SP and decided to find out a piece of information about it. You even can't imagine how gratefull I'm now for this post. Will read it once again to make sure I understand all well.
Only one (maybe silly) question with your permission:
if all we know tt voiting until 15 min is useless why so many people vote during 1-15 min?

Hi @anamarena thanks for your comments 😊

I have revised that section slightly (and may do again), and now think perhaps it's only almost useless to vote at 15 mins. I would still suggest the best time period to vote being 25-30 mins though.

Asher

Only been here for a couple of weeks so thanks for the tips @abh12345. The problem is what happens if everyone takes your advice and nobody votes in the first 15 minutes. Wouldn't that screw up the SP algorithm?

I've now read its 99.96% useless at 0 minutes, so perhaps it's not as bad as nothing under 15 minutes. I'd still suggest aiming for as close to 30 as you can.

Thanks for your comments and good luck on Steemit!

I think you have the math right and I agree with your thoughts.

I'm curating for money about 50% of my upvotes and the others are for posts I want to support and for good comments on my posts and those I see elsewhere.

No matter what - I do not vote for garbage posts. I keep my power above 85% and better over 90%. This makes my vote more effective.

I found out the importance of curating early here from somewhere and have done everything I can to get the best reward. I follow the rules you show above pretty closely. My voting time is 25 minutes to 2 days with a prior payout of under $2. I resteem and promote on other social media for about 70% of what I curate and I think I sometimes raise the reward for the author in that way.

I was doing better than other minnows of under 100 sp but it was slow and painful to get payouts even close to .010.

Then I found out about delegated sp and now have about 1000 of that and will continue. Why? Because my $0.17 upvote is a powerhouse in this crazy place where whales vote at 1%. The difference is truly stunning.

I took the advice to grow your sp to heart. Curating effectively is one of the ways I do that and I probably always will. I do not know how people can vote at 50% power all the time. My ocd would be off the charts and my cheap brain would be seeing money left on the table :)

I hope to be at the top of your list if it included my low sp level. Anyone at my level who was above me in curation/sp% - I would be investigating so I could find out their secrets!

Thank you @fitinfun super comments as always :)

I've added you to my list, if you've had this 1k delegated SP for at least 7 days then you could be in with a chance based on what I see above. I'm working on the next Post now, and staying awake by chopping the stats gathering up between replying :)

Thanks!

I'm trying! Now you have given me so much to research!

Thank you! How nice of you to keep going with this. I actually have my delegation in 4 pieces :) I have 3 leases and the amount I got when I signed up. I'm very interested to see this new information. It's 3 am in Bangkok, so i am ready to work now lol.

I've added you to this weeks Curation data :)

Wow! Thank you! I am studying this hard now. Great comments on the other post that I'm studying. I'm glad I am not the only person focusing on this side of the task for steemit.

Over top of all of the financial side - i think it's important to upvote in an effective way to encourage other minnow steemers. I'm shocked at the bigger payouts I get when the post only makes $5-$15 total. This is such a mystery!

I'm shocked at the bigger payouts I get when the post only makes $5-$15 total. This is such a mystery!

This is the cool thing about curation that will always keep the keen curators looking for the up and coming posts. a 100% vote at .20$ on a post that goes to $20 is much better than hitting a $200 post at $30, in my opinion. The multiplication factor in the first is much higher. Midnight over hear, will get back to your other reply on the new post 'manana' :D

Yes, I get buried on those really big payouts no matter how well I time my vote. It's almost not worth voting if I know the post will go over $150 or so.

Really great post! And you've cleared up a few questions for me on curation - but also, as you say, raised a few more!

I've definitely got a lot to learn about the Steemit ecosystem... For now I'm just voting on what I like and kinda just seeing what happens - like your last point on the post!

I think the idea of following trails is a good one - but again, I haven't yet looked into all it entails and the logistics of them.

But yay for @osm0sis and her super curation skills haha!

Thank you @johleen!

I'm going to do an updated post today if i have time between packing my life up into bags and seeing friends here for the final time. I'll check out your curation skills and add you to my list!

@osm0sis is either a genius, or a lucky duck! :D

Perhaps both - a lucky genius! She's clearly pretty awesome either way. :)

Oooh sounds like you've got a big move ahead of you....

Yes add me to your list!

I'm umming and ahhhing whether to tell her you said that, we've got enough to carry as it is without her bonce growing in size! :D

Yes, Mallorca, Lisbon (for SF2), and then Nepal!

Added!

I followed you all the way, so feel good about the article as it is a success. I've really been digging into curation lately as I've invested a few hundred dollars recently and noticed and immediate increase to what I was earniearning curating. I am super new here, but I've seen a lot of promise and really believe in the community here. I really like the time you put into these numbers and will be keeping in mind the value zone of 16-29 minutes! Thanks!

Thanks for your kind words @sixersfeds

Good luck with your journey here!

Thank you for clearing up some of the questions I had. Timing is key. I keep learning more and more everyday.

whats is an "personal curation league"?

Something I'd like to generate a run weekly 😁

Thanks for your comments!

this is so helpful. thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Thank you @aburmeseabroad, my pleasure! 😁

Are you able to pick a specific post, then record when everyone voted,(with their reputation at that moment), then at the end of 7 days, see what their curation results are?

I believe the magic is poster and tag specific, based on the auto-bots.

SteemFormers more than meets the eye.

SteemFormers more than meets the eye.

Ha!

I would say that is a tricky calculation to perform, and I believe that reputation (did you mean SP?) isn't related to curation rewards.

Cheers!

sometimes I'm confused how to do it then I run what it is like nowadays that only creep up the net but I continue the way it is

Great job pulling this together, especially the manual data collection (which must have been painful!)

I also use steemsql and have been struggling to find data on curation rewards. There is a table there called VOCurationRewards but the most recent data is from August 2016. If you find out where this data can be pulled please let me know. Happy to collaborate on any findings.

A little painful yes, and an impossible method for a larger set. If I find I will share in a post for sure. Cheers!

I read the post in its entirety, twice. Without further analysis of the numbers, my guess is that because @osm0sis and @xervantes are noobs (in relation to the majority in this chart), they may spend more time in curration as a percentage of time on Steemit. Just a summation on my part.

Actually most of my time goes into creating content and only a small fraction on curation. My curation focus however is not on high paying posts of well-known authors but on authors who have great content but have not gotten that status yet. The payouts on the posts are less but the rewards higher.

I am learning that, albeit slowly! lol

Yes this is the trick. It seems better to be in on a post going from 0.1$ to 5$ than one at 30$ going to $100.

No maths included here!

Yes you could well be right. I sit with @osm0sis who does read a lot of articles and curate manually. @xervantes has replied with his thoughts which may be of interest too.

Thanks for your comments!

Thanks for your information. It is very useful post for new comers

This is good stuff Asher thanks for sharing. i honestly had no idea that 16 minutes and a little over gave the best curation rewards. Despite the fact that i have been here for like 4-5 months i still have a hard time understanding even how my reputation number increases and its significance.

Yes it's an increasing scale up to 30 mins when it is fixed at 100%.

Reputation is not involved in the calculation.

Cheers!

Very informative! Reesteem :)

i have read it somewhere that you need to be exactly give up vote at 27 minutes i don't its right or wrong for 100% curation

I've added you to this weeks Curation data :)

That will be 85% (vote time) reward If what i have read is correct. 85% of whatever all the other variables calculate to!

I still don't really get that about waiting for 25-30 mins to vote. And it's annoying when you see something you like in the new feed: If you don't vote straight away it's often hard to find again.

It's an attempt to avoid manipulation and the takeover of voting via bots.

Thanks for your comments!

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks!

great explanation...
thank you!
very appreciated!

It is sad that most people unly upvote to get curation rewards. They don't even care about the article, they don't read it at all.

I agree to some extent but friendship and time also play a factor. Thanks for your comments 😊

Now, I'm curious... how do you derive the number in the last column? My math is terrible (today). @abh12345

Curation/SP %: The % of curation rewarded Steem Power in relation to amount of Steem Power owned.

The curation reward for the week as a % of total SP owned. Does that help?

Thanks for your comments 😊

Not really. I'm not sure where you are getting the number % of curation rewardedSP. Can you tell me what column to divide by what column? ( like in @osm0sis' case)

Curation reward for previous week divided by total SP, multiplied by 100 to give a %.

I'm going to have to study this later but I defintely need to get my act together on this 'system'. Thanks for your work helping us to understand sll of this!

My pleasure, thanks for commenting!

Awesome!

I have learned much from this. However I have to disagree when you say you are curating with equal skill to the guy with 10,000 steem power and you only have 1000, but you are both earning the same. You are doing far better to my mind, if you are able to equal those with more power.

Cheers @burtybasset 😊

Maybe it's 100% clear but I'm trying to suggest using 10x less SP to generate the same curation rewards means you are curating 10x better.

Ah, gotcha. How does one alter their steem power? I have only come across power up/down in the controls.

Steem, when powered up, becomes Steem Power. Powering down, takes Steem Power out into Steem based dollars that can be withdrawn. Don't do this unless you need the money :)

Okay, thanks.

I thought maybe there was some secret way to alter your vote output by 10% or so that I didn't know about.

There is. Once you hold a certain amount of SP (some say around 300-500), you will have a slider available to you to adjust your vote strength.

Ah, cool. Thanks

500SP required on Steemit.com, eSteem phone app the slider is available right away.

Cool! Thanks for the info! Resteemed

The 'issue' with statistical analyses is that the results generally leads to more questions. You may like to look into several weeks instead of 1 week to see if the same users end up high int he curation game. I also think you have to look into the auto voters, since I expect same accounts to vote for same authors over and over again, and these may come high on the curation charts. Maybe other Steemians analysed auto voting of high SP holders and auto vote for the same authors just prior to these. Since HF19 I have a feel the number of high SP holder auto voting increased over manual voting. I never was good in curation, and generally vote for those posts I like, at the time I read the post, regardless of the 15/30 minutes thing. But writing this comment, I'm getting interested to see if I can define some interesting vote rules to increase curation rewards. I may look into this one day.

Thanks fro the reply @edje

Yes i agree a longer time frame would be better - i'll need the data from steemsql to do that though.

Manual curation will generally do better than auto voting - but you can do ok with auto votes for no effort at all once it's set up.

I've added you to this weeks Curation data :)

Ok, interesting! Am a bad curator, I vote for what I like when I see/read it, so I also give most of my curation away when voting for posts or comments that are just a couple of minutes in the system (like your comment). Also I may vote on posts of days old. But am curious what the results will be. Thanks for including me.

This post has received a 7.06 % upvote from @buildawhale thanks to: @abh12345. Send at least 0.25 SBD to @buildawhale with a post link in the memo field for a portion of the next vote.

To support our curation initiative, please vote on my owner, @themarkymark, as a Steem Witness

Interesting information, thank you. This might be helpful.

This post has received a 18.75 % upvote from @boomerang thanks to: @abh12345

@boomerang distributes 100% of the SBD and up to 80% of the Curation Rewards to STEEM POWER Delegators. If you want to bid for votes or want to delegate SP please read the @boomerang whitepaper.

Eye opening. Thank you for sharing this information.
I'm not exactly sure how I can benefit from this in my own case. Don't you have to kind-of know which posts are going to skyrocket?

Still...

I'd like to know more about SteemSQL. First I'm hearing about it. Being a software developer, I use SQL all the time at work.

Thank you, upvoted and following.
Joe @joe.nobel

PS Thanks for upvoting my poem.
Yes, I do check out my upvoters.

Cheers @joe.nobel

Sorry for the late reply.

You have the bigger players whose posts always rocket, and then you have to find the hidden gems (before @curie does!)

I've added you to this weeks Curation data :)

Good question!

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How can I get that info for my own account? O I see it was gathered manually OK!

I'm afraid so!

Yeah not sure how long it takes and if I would be willing to put too much time into it! Thanks for following me. 😀 😃 😄 😁 😆 I hope you have a WONDERFUL weekend!

how about spam/stupid post click baits? do i get anything for flagging or dislike on busy?