Curation rewards explained in great detail

in steemit •  5 months ago

There is still a lot of confusion regarding curation rewards (even among users that have been here for a year). I will show you how exactly the curation rewards are calculated. Be warned though, curation rewards are quite complicated!

WARNING: If the article doesn't completely load, try to refresh a few times. There seems to be a bug with this article.

Number of votes before you

Below you see a graph that shows you how your reward is being influenced by how many people have voted before you. As you can see the majority of the curation rewards are claimed by the first 5 curators!

DISCLAIMER: i don't have the exact formula so i had to simulate it. This graph is slightly more drastic than reality, but very close to the correct formula.

So you're probably thinking "oh that's easy, i'll just vote immediately after publication". Well, that won't work because there is a second mechanism called "reversed-auction" in place to prevent this (as explained in the next section).

Time after publication

Below you see the graph that represents how much of the curation reward you will receive based on time of curation. In the first 1800 seconds after publication a part of the curation rewards goes to the author of the post!

Voting power

This is the third factor that influences your curation rewards. After the hard fork of June 20th you can spend 2% of your remaining voting power per vote. So every time you vote your new voting power will be voting power * (98/100). Below you can see how your voting power changes when you start voting at 100%.

Your voting power regenerates exactly 20% of your used voting power per day (that's ~0.83% per hour, ~0.0139% per minute and ~0.0002315% per second). You can calculate yourself how long it would take to regenerate to a certain value based on your current voting power.

You can find your current voting power on www.steemd.com/@yourusername in the 17th row of the table on the left (don't forget to replace "yourusername" with your actual username!).

STEEM POWER

This is the fourth factor that influences your curation rewards. It only influences your absolute reward, everyone will earn identical relative rewards when voting in the exact same circumstances.

Voting weight


To make thinks even more complicated there is also a voting power slider when you have at least 500 STEEM POWER in your account. With this you can essentially truly curate how good you think content is. If you vote at 75% voting weight you used up 75% of the maximum 2% of your remaining voting power.

Reward pool distribution

At most 25% of the total reward of a post will go to the curators (and 75% to the author). The reversed-auction (as explained earlier) will determine the exact percentage going to curators in case any curators voted within the first 30 minutes after publication.

Example:

  • Curators before you have already contributed 100 STEEM POWER total
  • Only 1 curator has voted before you
  • You have 100 STEEM POWER
  • You voted when the content had been published for 10 minutes
  • You voted at 100% weight
  • The total reward pool for this post is $10.00

In this case 50% of the reward pool has been contributed by you (100 of the 200 total), you voted exactly at 1/3rd of the first 30 minutes at 100% weight and you voted 2nd (let's assume 40% as reward multiplier for that).

I will be using the following formula to calculate your curation reward: [total reward pool] . 0.25 . [reversed-auction multiplier] . [voting position multiplier]. Your rewards will be: $10.00 . 0.25 . 0.4. ~0.33=~$0.33. So in this specific case your curation reward is exactly 1/30th of the total reward pool of $10.00.

Had you voted at 30 minutes or later and the other curator came after you, you would have earned $1.50, which is 4.5 times as much! If you were the first voter at 30 minutes or later and nobody voted after you, you would have earned $2.50, which is the maximum 25% of the total reward.

Optimal strategy

The ideal situation will be if you are the first voter at 30 minutes after publication and at payout the post has earned

In reality this is (almost) never the case. What happens in reality is that people eventually start to vote, similar to real auctions, but then in reverse. So the most optimal strategy is to constantly monitor how many votes and how much rewards the post has. Of course to do this completely accurately you need complicated software to calculate this real-time.

It's recommended that you do not vote more than 11 times a day at 100% voting weight if you can use SteemIt every day. When you do this you will have over 99% voting power available after 24 hours. You can vote as many times as you want, but after a few 100 votes you will receive less than 0.1% of the reward potential.


Don't forget to follow, resteem and browse my channel for more information!

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It is great post. Really glad to find it so early.

It would be great, if someone could provide exact formula for calculating vote reward.

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It's very complicated, i would have to go through complex source code. Maybe some day i will ;)

Unfortunate that the formulas aren't in the FAQ.

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Maybe you could point out the place in souce code there curation logic may ne? At least the file or even the folder name would be helpfull.

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I haven't looked at the source code yet, otherwise i would have given you the exact formulas. This article took me about 3 hours already, going through the source code is an 8 hour project for a later time ;)

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Actually this sound so complicated that I will read it again later...

You should also point out that the reward can never exceed, only approach, the total amount shared in rewards at any given time. Over a certain threshold, the effect of votes on the absolute reward size starts to decline.

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I mentioned that the curation reward pool is 25% at most and all other aspects that influence it. Can you simplify your explanation?

(i edited the reward pool distribution explanation, it's more clear now)

Thanks for trying to help!

Can you repost plz? i missed the 30 Minute window by 14 days

I feel like I know everything and yet nothing at all

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Before or after reading the article? :)

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Can "exactly" be my answer? :) btw I waited til now to upvote you. Wanted to power up first. Enjoying the new found power of 13 cent votes

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Haha i knew you were gonna say something like "both" :p

Oh thanks man, every cent is 1 closer to being a millionaire i guess ;)

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hahahahahah you have friends coinhawk :) Heres an upvote

How can you find posts that are 15 or 20 minutes old?

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In the [new] sections. For example: https://steemit.com/created/art

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The problem is when you find an article with popular potential, it's usually already early voted by at least five people before 30 minutes. The best articles have popular appeal. It's about the people's taste.

Oh boy, anyone who cant do advanced math is totally screwed in the cryptoworld to come.

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You are talking to me. I am an accountant who cannot do math in my head. I have other talents, but I feel I am out of my depth here.

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I'm so glad I read this before wasting more of my voting power. I'd always thought that being the first to vote new content was the way to maximize the curation rewards. This is very intriguing to see how it really works. Thank you for this breakdown with the simplified math behind it and not just overall concepts!

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Yes being first is what you want, but not too far before the 30 minute mark.

Thank you @calamus056 for that nice explanation. I have one question:

  • How long after an article is posted does an upvote enter into the curation pool?

I know the question is quite late, but maybe you see and answer it. :-)

This post received a 38% upvote from @randowhale thanks to @calamus056! For more information, click here!

Good post and explaining how it works. Did not know that the first five voters get the most rewarded. This stuff is Why I try to read so much on steemit. I learn every day. Followed.

@calamus056
Thanks a lot for the very informative post!
I just joined the community a few days ago and saw that my curation rewards declined over time. So when I upvoted a post the first time, the value I added (no other comment) was something like 0.24 cents, while now a few days later it's only 0.18 cents. Do you know if the curation rewards have recently changed again?

Thanks!

Great explanation that clarified some of my open questions about this system (:

After seeing the first graph I don't understand why people use trails to mass upvote... Only the leader will truely profit from this.

Damn I'm feeling like I need a course in Steemitology. I want to be certified!!!

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That's actually a good idea!

OH WOW and thank you for posting

It's quite complicated but I think I will get along with it . Thank you for this post

Very informative, although I think that I might have to read it a few more times to really and truly understand it.

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Yeah it's hard. It took me weeks to understand it and i'm a programmer lol. I'm not sure how to write it better, i already spend about 3 hours on this and i was pretty much outta energy in the end :)

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I'm an programmer as well, well I'm actually an ex programmer they moved me to management so reckon I've dropped a few IQ points since ;-)

I honestly don't think that you could have explained it any better, just think it is I've of those things that I have to sit down with a pen and a bit of paper to work through your post so that I really understand it.

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Haha could be, if you don't train certain parts of your brain regularly.

Oh good to hear that i did a decent job. Feel free to ask anything though, it might safe you a lot of time.

typo:
"Voting weight
To make thinks" probably you meant things.

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I know, i found out when it was too late :(

Not allowed to edit anymore.

Excellent Read! You've got yourself a new follower. This information is indispensable to the newer users.

Best Regards!
@abn
The Armageddon Broadcast Network

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Of course i do, that's why i spend 3 hours making it ;)

But wait for my next one, i spend even longer on that already. It's also about curation.

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Love the moon walk by MJ.

Thanks for the info!


Thank you for that great post - I mentioned it

here - click

Kind regards

affe.jpg
@honolulu


I went crazy with my votes yesterday,
and today I'm paying for it... My steem
is gone for who knows how long...lol...
@pocketechange

Thanks! This actually helped clear up some of my questions. :)

Interesting ! Thanks for sharing.
How does it works with the rewards when you are publishing an article? Normally you could choose 50/50 or 100 % - but I do not get it what is the advantage of those selection?

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100% means all rewards go directly to STEEM POWER, which gives you more upvote power and about 9% inflation compensation per year. When you choose 50/50 you get 50% in SBD which you can cash out immediately. It depends if you need the money right away or if you want to invest long-term (years) in SteemIt.

Thanks for the info. I understand this a lot better now.

nice work. I have followed you do follow me back to help each other thanks

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upvote all my post and follow me.i will do the same.so we both can earn

I learned a lot !! what should i do next ? lool this is complicated !!

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What you should do next then is read it again till you understand it completely :)

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I will !! Haha

Seems like you cut your post a bit short?

Below you see the graph that represents how much of the curation r

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Hmm i see the whole text, maybe a refresh? What SteemIt client are you using? steemit.com?

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Yeah, I'm using Steemit.com.

I refreshed and it showed up the same (back when I made the comment), but now it all shows up. Things have been running really slow on Steemit for me lately and there's been a few times that pages wouldn't load at all, after waiting for up to a minute. Seems that it's time to upgrade servers.

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I had the same problem with 1 post, i guess it's resolved after a few minutes usually.

Also yeah the webservers are overloaded sometimes with all the new users registering over the past weeks.

Great information for someone who is new ! thank you

Very great and informative article. Thank you very much for sharing, definitely very valuable information! I knew of some of these aspects, but reading this article cleared up a lot of areas I still wasn't so sure about.

seems like i am voting on too many posts and too early -- it is a shame to lose so much for upvoting early on posts - i am following you now @calamus056 and hope you will enjoy my posts too -David

I just started today. Is curating the same thing as upvoting someone else's publication?

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It essentially means "to assess" i believe. Google translate says "select, organize, and look after the items in (a collection or exhibition)".

Good information thank you. Upvoted and resteem. Got one of my ten votes for you.

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Thanks. What do you mean one of ten? :)

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I was just making a joke on how I've voted less then ten times today and used one of those votes for you.

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Ahhh right, well right now you can still easily vote 40 times a day on full power ;)

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Better get to using that power then hah hah. Thank you for this useful article.

i'm still pretty new to this, but this post definitely helped shed some light on some big questions I have had about this site. thanks!

How do you get so many upvotes and yet no one leaves a reply...???
@pocketechange

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No clue what you're talking about.

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I was at one of your posts and none of the comments were showing... You had lots of upvotes, but I didn't see any comments...
@pocketechange

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Oh, post the comment in the correct post then, now it was way too confusing :)

nicely explained

Awesome!

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Thanks you! Did you know you can reward people with a follow, upvote, resteem and/or donation? ;)

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no I didn't know

Did this article end up short? Would like to read more...
Stopped after

Below you see the graph that represents how much of the curation reward you will

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Hmm another user had the same problem in that line. After a few refreshes it showed the whole article. Keep trying, i guess this is one of the bugged articles :(

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Thanks - refresh did the trick. Happy Sunday!

Thanks for the insight but I wish there was more on the thought process with which all this came to be.

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As do i :)

Not all information is released and/or updated. It's hard to get things 100% accurate in this rapidly growing industry.

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:) Well that is not unusual, the same goes in education: facts are thaught but the real challenge is to understand the thought process, the logic behind it all.
I was always really bad at math because I didn't understand the logic behind it, until I had to learn everything myself and then later I went to college to study math.

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The main thought behind the current implementation is to prevent bots upvoting posts automatically. That problem has largely been solved, but now there are new problems :)

This perfectly explains the short lived popularity of posts. Regardless of content, and I do work hard on putting out quality submissions, dies off after 60--90 minutes and never gains steem after.

Consistency in quality and persistence in submissions is the key to success.

Thanks for this insightful post.

Followed.

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The key to success is gaining a lot of followers. This article along with others in my blog history might help.

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Thanks. Appreciate!

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@calamus056 Thank you for the clarity and for sharing other articles of interest for those of us new to steemit. Much appreciated!

Nice post buddey
if you like you can visit me also
Following would be great Help
Thanks

Wow. great post with detailed explanation. I was really wanted to know that how the curation award is calculated and you nailed it man. Thanks for sharing.

Hey, I'm just new, and I thank you for this post, really helpful for me. thanks

This was a great overview of curation rewards! You've earned yourself a new follower with this post. :)

Thanks for sharing, @calamus056!

Thank you! Wonderful and clear explanation of curation rewards. :)

Namaste

Excellent @calamus056! That's what I have been looking for. I have even asked other people to explain how Curation is working.

Thanks for the explanation with example. Following you now.

Great explanation. Thank you. I'm not here for the money. But it's good to know. 👍

Awesome post - have been trying to find this info for a while and it helps a lot - thx again.

Still don't have my head wrapped around it, maybe soon. But very helpful and the best article I have seen about the curation rewards so far.

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Thanks! It's extremely complicated, can't blame you at all! (and i'm not the best writer haha).

nice topic man, check my last post i think its useful for most of you and upvote it if u like https://steemit.com/steemit/@bardhylsllamniku/smart-way-to-gain-fame-in-steemit-2-rp

where's the rest of the article?

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People keep having problems with it. You have to keep refreshing i'm afraid. It's really buggy.

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Ok Thanks

isn;t there any auto voting and auto generation platoforms here in steemit??

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Yup there are bots.

Looks like you didn't finish the explanation. I would like to know, so let me know somehow.

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Fuck sakes, that's the 4th person that can't load the article completely. What is going on? I've seen the article load 100% dozens of times, not once did it get cut it off.

Refreshing a few times should do the job. I don't understand this bug #&^@#%&@#%

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It loaded fine this time. thanks for the post and hope you find the raid. lol

I am looking for it..how it actually calculated...big big thank you for your great effort..appreciated

Nicely explained. A definitive read by all steemians.

Someone promoted your post. Promotions help every steemians.
Your reward is an upvote and 1.342 SBD extra promotion.
Good job, see you next time in Promoted! ;)
#steam4steem

Not sure I understand it all yet, but thanks for the info.

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Ask away, maybe others have the same confusion.

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I am actually looking for a strategy for growing as a steeman, but I recognize that it is not all about me. So really how do I create more steem for everyone and grow at the same time.

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As a beginner it's best to comment all day long until you have 100s of subscribers, then you should start putting a lot more time into content (articles, vlogs, software and art do very well on SteemIt).

Also look at my blog history, there is a lot of information for beginners.

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Sorry I am very new. How do I look at your blog history. Never mind I figured it out thanks again.

This is clear as mud. Thanks for the effort though!

A great example of where we use math in real life. Often hard to motivate kids when learning algebra when they will ever see direct variation, inverse variation, etc.

My thought is:
Believe yourself and vote for the post which you really like (do not vote just to get few points) and leave rest on STEEMIT.

Interesting! Upvoted!!

Very useful explanations! Now it's more clear to me. Thanks for them!

Thanks for helping us demystify the reward system.

thanks, very helpfull .. resteemed

Oh my, that's awfully complex, I had no idea :0
Thanks for letting us know!

Upvoted and Followed ^_^

Very well explained

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Could be better, but i tried :)

everything I read just went over my head! So much for this newbie! I need some steempower! LOL

Thank you for this, couldn't have come at a better time! I was just trying to explain this to my brother's girlfriend yesterday and now, I can just link her your post once I find out what her account name is :-)

Very Intellectual Post. I get more knowledge about voting Power.
Thank you.

Informative post! Im keeping this article for reference, thanks for sharing ^.^

Thank you, Good post.~~~~

Great post check out mine if you can !:)

I appreciate the explanation about needing 500 steem power generating the power slider. I was looking for something like that. Now i understand why i don't have one yet.

Really nice post, as a new member this is very informative for me. Still not sure sure i understand it all but its improving ;)

wow thats alot to take in but thank you very much for finding the time to research and share this information @domesticgoddess read this

What a post bro....Congrats for delivering in such a way..... To decode this logic and understand one must be a expert in maths and off course you are

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Not at all, this is quite basic math.

This is such a great resource. Thanks for posting this!

Wow! This just shows again how important it isn't not to over vote each day. I though like 20 votes was safe. Guess it should be less...
Do votes on comments reduce your Steem Power the same as if you upvoted a post?

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Thanks you for this valuable coaching. Looking forward to get more tip from you.

well explained
thank you

This is a very interesting post. I keep coming back to it. Every time I reread it I understand a little bit more. But I still don´t get it. And I am a numbers person, allegedly.

First comment: why is it so complicated? What does it add to the Steemit model to calculate things in this strange way?

Second comment: why is it so dependent on voting in the first half hour after the post is published? I myself am always reading older things.

Your advice is to focus on content. I agree. But if you focus on content you have to forget about voting in the first half hour! Like what is happening right now. I am reading this article, which is 14 days old. I am voting it. What happens to my vote now? Is it useless to me and/or to the author?

Thank you for any comment you might have.

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Why it is so complicated is because they have to counter auto vote bots. I don't really know why they picked 30 minutes either. I don't like the current algorithms at all. They should just give people enough time to decide what to vote on and pay them every week.

If you vote after 7 days it doesn't add rewards, it only increases the votes by 1. It's fucking stupid, all your hard work is essentially useless after 7 days.

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Amazing.

If you happen to know about the reasons behind this odd calculations, please point me in the right direction. There has to be a reason, it must be related to currency valuation and blockchain technology.

Thanks, @calamus056 . I´ll keep reading you, it´s very helpful.

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I already told you, it's because of botting. If there is no reverse-auction system the fastest bot makes the most money.

With the current system it's all about who has the most patience. And apparently nobody has patience, because people vote in the first minutes when popular authors publish something. The whole algorithm is just a disaster.

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Unfortunately I don´t understand what botting is, in this context. I have a slight idea it has to do with automated things in the internet...

Thanks, though, for the effort. Little by little I improve my understanding.

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Oh, yeah a bot is software that automates actions.

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:-) I know.

Another one. How are we sure that votes after the first week don´t mean any rewards? Is there a document stating that, or we know it by analizing the algorithm?

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You can verify it yourself. Check your voting power on https://www.steemd.com/@gregario, upvote something older than 7 days and see what happens :)

What. Means vest

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Basically means your share, it comes from the word "investment".

very informative post

@calamus056, This is your second post I am reading in the last 30 minutes. Your blogs are extremely helpful. thanks again. My voting percentage has dropped drastically. so i am preserving it for another day or two. so will be back some days from now and shall upvote on another excellent blog from you :)

wow, so voting before the 5 to 10 minute mark basically gives no rewards for curation, because the 30 minute mark is optimal for the 100% mark. So voting between like 11 minutes and 25 minutes is best, but then only if not more than 10 people already voted.

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After 30 minutes neither ROFL.

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But that is only if it had more than 10 upvotes right?

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It's not that black & white. It also depends on your SP & the total reward pool of the post. Sometimes you earn more by voting earlier and sometimes by voting later.

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It's not that easy, sometimes voting at 1 minute gives you more rewards than at 30.

So - What about if you are in the first 5 upvotes but before the 30 minutes and then after you comes hundreds of upvotes? If I wait until 30 minutes, I would be one of 100's in some cases. I've only been here 1 week and find this complicated but interesting.

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The tricky part is not to vote too early and also not too late :)

I will be looking for great things from you in the future.

Should I upvote my own post automatically?

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Yeah, you'll get 100% of the money then.

Hey thanks for breaking this down its the best explanation i've heard so far. One more question thought, I have a number of comments that people have upvoted and show a potential payout. At which point will they be paid?

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After 7 days, it says so when you click on the money dropdown.

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Great thanks!!

Great Googlymoogly! heh

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Little bit complicated? :)

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Meh, not too bad. Good explanation.

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Why so overwhelmed then? Or am i misinterpreting your hilarious comment? :)

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Heh. Don't overthink my random response lol :)

thank you for this very helpful.

Phew! My brain is on fire after that discussion. But, it's really helpful to a newbie like me, as I just haven't understood exactly how this all works.

Knowing that I have 11 votes per day is truly helpful.

thank you for doing so much research and posting it.

Hey great post @calamus056, I was just wondering about this myself today, thanks for bringing in more clarification!

Great post, very helpful, thank you !

That is a good explanation. I wish there was a way for users to make collections on subjects so we could easily pool articles on like subject matter together on our own in folders as it were.

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You can use bookmarks in folders in your browser... works fine for me!

Best post on this topic I have read to date @calamus056 Thank you for making it clear. I think I've read about 50 posts so far looking for this exact information but still had not found one this clear. Great job.

This is an unforunate side effect of picking constants. We should eliminate clever tricks like this and pay more respect to established math.

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Which constants do you mean? Most data is variable :)

@calamus056
Very well explained! We don't have option for becoming a fan on steemit, could have chosen that. But for now, started following you. I hope, your posts will help me in upraising my posts. Thanks a ton :)

Thank you for this very useful post. I am still working on figuring it all out but this has been a big help. I am still a little confused but I will be doing more research to try to understand. I will be watching for more of your posts. Thanks

I found this post after searching for "curation rewards" and then clicking through the link in your old article to this one. I read this article very carefully and still find myself trying to decide the best strategy for working the Steemit system for its maximum potential--or any potential, really. Obviously, being brand new to the platform, I have a long way to go to really see this thing pay off, but still, I want to make the right moves that optimize my return on the time invested posting, voting, commenting and resteeming. Did I miss anything in that list? It's a lot to take in all at once.

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You can try to make the most curation rewards or you can choose to just reward an author more. It's your choise :)

Making high curation rewards is very hard though. The best way to do that if get a lot of followers, then vote on something and resteem it. Good luck :)

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@calamus056, @hartiverse, how do you increase your REP number the fastest when upvoting posts and comments and everything? I am not asking about increasing curation rewards or author rewards but rather the reputation (REP) number. My rep is 51 and I want to find the fastest way to make my 51 become a 52 the fastest.

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Unfortunately the system is flawed and the only way to increase rep is by making good content and getting lots of money.

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@calamus056, what does good mean? That is a very subjective word. Plus, people with good content are not getting good reputation sometimes. People with bad content get better reputation sometimes. You said the system is flawed. I know that. You know that. And you can know that I know that.
.
I am asking about the codes, the formulas, the white papers, of Steemit, about how reputation is calculated and everything. I am simply trying to understand the scientific formulas in the code, in the programming. I already know that we are to make good content and stuff. I have known that since I started writing in 1995 back twenty two years ago in Oregon. It is the year 2017, right now, in Vietnam, for me, Joey Arnold Oatmeal. I love good content but defining what is good and what is bad can be rather tough to do still as different people can define things differently if they do not believe in God. If you do not believe in objective definitions of what is good and bad, then there is no good and bad because subjectivity and relativity is a philosophy that allows alleged bad actions to be excused and rationalized and overly forgiven and justified through redefinitions and toleration and propagation and regulation and delegation and so on...............