Don't you just love it when ignorant people pull out their "MUH ROADS" ace from their sleeve? Do they really expect to be able to say "HA! GOTCHA!" after this idiocy?
How arrogant and ignorant are they exactly? To assume a voluntaryist lives in some fantasy world and never thought anything through? Really?
Here is one of the "statism classics", where I am being "schooled" about basics of economics, by someone who does not know what economics mean.
This guy tried ridiculing the idea of a society based on non-agression and consent.
When given links to noblists like Hayek or Friedman, Mises, Bastiat Institutes, he refused to check them out and not only did he get all the materials, which he did not have to search by himself like an adult person, but he refused to read what was served on a silver platter, and in his imagination this made me childish... not him...
All he had to do was click on this link:
But instead he blackmailed me that he will not learn if I don't give it to him in 10 sentences :D
just told you I am not going to read 494 pages to maybe, likelyy not, find what I want to know. Just use 10 sentences to explain it to me. If you can't even do that, then I have to conclude that all you say is just hot air and no ground.
As if am under obligation to teach him the world around him?
Fine! :D If you don't want to learn don't. Believe in Gandalf The Dumb to invent magic that will give him rights no one has to give to him. Extortiocazaaam! and poof! Through the power of my cult and extortion I give you MUH ROAAADS! Why you bother people blaming them you don't know and you refuse to know... when I already did your part of searching somethng for you. I'm not doing the whole grown up thing to do for you. I am neinther under any obligation to explain things to you. If you question stuff, question them. If you just assume shit... be that. I don't give a flying half of a solitary poop. Please kindly direct your demands at someone else ;) have a great day
P.S. :D to answer your question who will build all of that, I have an answer that you are really looking for in one word: a politician. Who else? :D
I have never seen a politician build a road. Anyway, that yould have been a lot shorter if you just had said: I don't want to / cannot explain it.
I do not need 10 sentences to answer any of this sect's questions.
The answer is simple: the ones who vote to build _________.
The projection of ignorance, arrogance and ad hominems, as always with this cult, paints a picture of insanity, weird cultish hallucination, we may also call Stockholm Syndrome; a serious mental disorder.
He asked for reading the work of geniuses of economy for him and translating it to him, so he could understand... because he is above learning new things by himself, which he knows already are bogus? OK, then. Here we go:
Me: OK... Let's do it again... I should be more tolerant, I guess. It is hard to get out of a cult, we were born into for many generations.
Who builds these things today? People who vote to build them. These people want for everyone to be extorted under threat of death to build the roads... that is how much they care about this flat space connecting points on a map. Maybe you should explain to me in 10 words, why we can build a microcomputer that sends a signal to space and comes back so you can ask silly questions on blockchain-powered social platform? Was there any coercion necessary on the way? It was all achieved through voluntary agreements. In free society, the people who care about roads, will look for best solutions, cheapest possible and will contribute voluntarily as much as they want or can. Instead of politician's friend doing it wrong, 1000 times more expensive, with planned obsolescence programmed into this insanity, so a politician can say he raised GDP and reduced unemployment, by people who keep fixing this constant loop of pile of shit. And sheeple will be clapping with rabid foam dripping from their yap and defend their actor with fierce aggression...
Who would you like to build the roads?
At the moment, I'd like Elon Musk to do it, but we'd have a contest, and the best would win. If only we were not threatened death, should we want to decide what to spend out money on and what ideas contribute to... you can call it "vote with donation", if you want.
It is really arrogant and ignorant... and annoying, when you assume it is so obvious you know the perfect solution (monopoly on legal murder) and ask a question to not hear an answer, but to go "la la la la" like a spoiled baby... bro... "I knew you didn't know"?... when I gave you all you needed to find out... and now you run away like a little coward you are? How old infant are you? Maybe it is something you should work on? Or will you keep spinning in this loop of monkey ego, lying to yourself I don't get it and I'm dumb?
Would you be able to say "I never thought about it like that, thanks!"? And grow... become better today than yesterday? Or you are fine with just stop learning and vegetating till you die? Fine with me, just next time don't bother healthy people with your childish cretinism.
If you really think we need a government for something, you clearly think they are best at something useful to humans. Why not ask your masters to compete in services with private sector? If they are so necessary... why wouldn't they?
This obsolete rabid ape circus would dry out within a year, out of lack of participants. Everyone would switch to real civilization and we'd be building cities on Mars instead of slaughtering 300 million people in last 100 years. How dumb is the idea of a government? It is the mindset of a retarded human on previous level of evolution.
Wake up! :)
Wake up and stop all that ad hominem! You think that helps you getting your point across?Wake up and stop wrongly interpreting - or downright fantasizing - thinks I said.
In free society, the people who care about roads, will look for best solutions, cheapest possible and will contribute voluntarily as much as they want or can.
Let's get right to the main point of my question here:
What do you do of the people that don't care about roads and own the land you need to build one? Those that don't sell under any circumstances?
There is always one in the way, on every route.
(economics bonus question: And especially if it is the most efficient route, even those who want to sell will do it at a far higher price.
If they sell at all because they know: The one who waits the longest will get the highest price by far. )
You do know, don't you, that PO is an invention of corporations and today only state's laws more or less prevent that?
(Yes, after WWII boom was over PO was seen as the solution to economic depression in the US on official levels. But people voluntarily expressed their concern und laws against it were enacted. So the corporations instead turned from mechanical PO to ad-induced PO)
when you assume it is so obvious you know the perfect solution [...] If you really think we need a government for something
Here we come to the "interpretation". Please point me to where I said that because I am quite sure I didn't. I merely said I can't see how voluntarism can work on any big scale (and empiric evidence is with me).
I think your problem, especially at those "interpretations", is that you are shackled by a dipol worldview of voluntarism <-> state, and even confusing state and government on the way. You are not acknowledging that there is grey and you can't see possible 3rd ways.
I think you should stop acting arrogant and ignorant and grow up - or go to facebook where you can rant in your echochamber as much as you want.
You can start by answering that simple question:
What do you do when on the land that you need to build something is someone who does not allow you to do it.
OK. Here we go explaining the obvious to a delusional statist again:
First of all "ad hominem" is the favorite projection of a statist. In a free society it is just called "honest language", but you were taught not to use it. As soon as you will learn that skill, your illusion of your masters will crumble away and you invested way to much time believing in it, to just start being independent now. It is not easy and truth will first piss you off before it can set you free. It makes who you are and you will not question it. You might after some traumatic experience, but back to subject, as I know this makes you cranky ;)
What I describe, is the direct cause of what you are implying.
How could we ever have _________ without a parasitic ruling class?
Fist to answer your question, what do I do with people if they don't do what I want... a civilized answer is "NOTHING!" I am not a sociopath. I do not do to others what I do not wish was done to me. If it is a person against well-being of masses, you should be able to imagine the consequences of being an asshole to masses.
If someone is trying to hurt me, I will defend myself (or others) or I will call a security agency if the bully is to big for me to handle myself.
You can't really do much without other people in your life.
How could we possibly have all the things we need and want without thieves stealing from us and wasting it on wars and other idiocy? I dunno... let me think for a fraction of a second ;)
A question: do you think humans will still be able to talk and discuss things without a politician?
If we don't give the worst people permission to violently control us, we will not be safe from ourselves?
Who might ever protect us from people who want to do bad things, if it wasn't for the worst people, doing whatever they want to us legally?
But who will help the poor?
Let's say half of people want to help the poor. Do you think it is better if these people just give their money to the poor?
Or is it better to rob everyone, waste most of it and give a little to the poor?
Not to mention complications that this idiocy is causing, like no motivation to not abuse the welfare?
So are you really in favor of mass extortion and corruption in place of actual charity, too? You are just getting better and better. Let it all out and maybe then you will see what your cult is all about :D
Excuse the rant, but you are being annoying again, like a spiritual infant you want to be, for some reason...
Again, you come back and ask me something when clearly you do have the internet.
So yet again you are not asking a question, but think I am an idiot and you will be able to say "AHA!". Because you think you have some evidence. Where is it? I haven't found any in many years of researching.
It is because of this arrogant and ignorant attitude you suffer from, I can't be nice to you.
I will lower myself to your level and treat you the way you are treating me.
You are free to project your "ad hominems" or whatever you like on me.
All of your issues have been explained over and over and to say idiotic propaganda is your evidence says a lot about you.
You might as well ask "but how would ever build a global food distribution without a politician?"
Well... we built it! We did not starve to death because there was no politician who organized it for us, did we?
Nobody was forced. We never needed to be forced to do it, as the only "civilized" and "obvious" solution of your genius mind.
This is just very stupid and proves you are a dangerous person. You want everyone to pay the price for your fears of a bogeyman stopping you from being successful.
You want everyone to be gangraped to achieve what you think could not be achieved through mutual agreements.
This is an obsolete approach to life.
It takes generations of indoctrination to make a smart person talk dumb shit like that.
Who forced you to buy food from a supermarket? Who forced people who want to grow food? Did they have to invade your land to do it?
For you to say that you would threaten death to someone, if they refuse to give up their property to you, so you could build a road you want...
makes me not want to waste electricity on you.
BUT I did not know what I know some time ago, so I do understand where your questions come from. Certainly not from any evidence as you imagine, as there are 0. Voluntary society does work every day. You don't go to a shop, ask for milk, the clerk takes half of your money by force and gives you a half-eaten sandwich, does he?
I just don't like the fact you do not want to hear the answer, and yet again you want me to do your part of researching for you... AND it is not about any interpretation. It is about your ignorance and arrogance; to assume you know the answer and refusing to checking the extensive work on this subject by a Noblist economist.
I spend a lot of years learning what I know. I would love to share it with a smile, but not with someone who is asking some leading questions, assuming they know... so again you are projecting your arrogance and ignorance on me. You refuse to learn what is already out there and I need to grow up?
When I give you the answer, you act like a baby and pretend it isn't there... Or you cry like a spoiled bitch "I will not read that"... "I want my candy!"? :D
I can go to FB and rant in my echo-chamber? Oh! Snap! Bravo champ! Are you getting cranky, sweetie?
I don't know if I should still waste my time on you... but I will turn it into a post, so it is also beneficial for me to train the understanding of statist "logic".
You are right about one thing; I do not see a third (grey) way. Because it is a hallucination. If you hallucinate you can give someone rights you do not have, to violently control anyone and expect this will not attract sociopathic retards hungry for domination, who will regulate lives of each individual (whether they believe in your cult or not, want it or not, they have to obey or die), free trade, businesses... and expect they will not give favors to their buddy sponsors, creating corporations who have superhuman rights no one has to delegate, no accountability... how childish are you? All you know is the other way around. You were taught reality up-side-down on purpose.
You mean a tiny government your cultish "founding fathers" and Rudolf the grey nose started... which turned into the biggest empire in history? Is this the grey way I do not see? Oh I do see it and doing same shit over and over again, expecting different results is insanity by definition. I'm just not insane. I woke up to see most or people are still asleep, but it is changing rapidly. Talking about PO, since you want to teach me on that too: what would happen to businesses that have no patents, nor monopolies, special rights no one has to give without a government? I would not buy any shit that breaks after a few uses, but open a competing business producing better and cheaper product. So would any entrepreneur out there. Are you using Blockchain tech right now? Platform invented by a Voluntaryist, as an alternative to censored FB? Why are you using a better alternative? Are you lost here?
Mr. Economics, who does not know what free market supply and demand mean :D
You are saying that people who want to grow food have all the right to grow it on your land, because they decided so?
You should be forced by threat of death to let them grow?
If this doesn't make sense to you, how the fuk "MUH ROADS!" do?
So what you are saying is that without extortion we cannot have roads? Or iPhones? Or literally every single thing we have... only flat space is impossible?
What else you cannot imagine for people to achieve without aggression? Without politicians forcing people to give them money and forcing people to leave their property?
So if we don't have a government caging us for refusing the extortion, if we don't have a politician writing threats, calling them laws, that you have to be forced out of your property, because gang-rapers decided they want a road going through your living-room, called it a democracy, we could not possibly achieve building this flat space?
How about I invite you over and me and my buddy decide to eat you because we are hungry? Or burn you because we are cold? Or we will order pizza for you when you want a hot-dog and lock you up in a cage if you don't pay your share... and kill you if you defend yourself, huh?
Are you a sociopath per chance?
Why does the road have to go through this piece of land? Why wouldn't someone agree? Would they have reasons? But not as important as your reasons, right? Because other people are stupid, malicious, evil, greedy... everyone else, just not you?
So rabid ape violence is necessary to convince them of your superiority, right?
Because you are superior to them, you advocate for forcibly removing someone from their property, to build the road you want?
It is not ad hominem. It is how your logic works. Face it and raise above it. Join the voluntary society. Check out Anarchapulco. You would be living a blissful, aware life...
So consent and mutual agreements are working every single time, everywhere and always to create something, but suddenly it stops when people need a flat space, right?
How about a bridge? We just have to build this road going through someone's living room?
There are no other options? Only one way to build only this one road and no other option?
Well... let's ask Elon to build a magnetic lift flying us over this land... or will we need to ask a useless cunt, who doesn't know anything for permission and sit around in confusion before his highness grants us his uneducated opinion?
The guy who owns this land, does not need this road? Who does then? His neighbors?
So I guess we will have to just be sitting around with other 7,5 billion people, waiting for a politician to tell us how to resolve and pretend the only answer coming out of a politician will not be FORCE!... while we have a microcomputer in a pocket?
What coercion was used to build a cell phone?
So freedom can achieve a ubiquitous wonder of technology, but not a flat place... how idiotic is this? How can you believe in such a retarded concept and still try to defend it with ignorance? Why not learn?
You should be ashamed of yourself.
If someone on purpose is trying to sabotage what others really need for no reason at all but greed, no one will ever cooperate with this person.
This guy will have bad rating and will have to become self-sufficient, if no one will give him a second chance... I would. People usually learn. Maybe you will one day ;)
How well indoctrinated are you? To say that 7,5 bilion people will never be able to build a flat place, without a sociopath forcing them to do it?
Before you will ask again who will do something... whatever... the people who care to do it right now will do it.
Just without a gang of thugs with licence to rob us and waste most of robbed money, with no competence nor accountability.
If they don't want to they just don't. Get over it. Find a different solution. There isn't just one solution... and you say I see world in B&W? :D
Stop threatening death to people who have a different worldview from yours.
Next time you have dumb questions like that and you honestly want an answer, go to noblists, professors of economy... and don't waste my time.
Check out Hayek, Mises, Bastiat, Manhattan Institutes or many more geniuses you missed out on to stay within your obsolete, smelly comfort zone.
You choose to listen to a useless sociopath over Noblists of economy and want to teach me economy? You are funny.
Would you like me to google it for you once again or will you manage this time?
You are suffering from the assumption that people are bad and the world is a constant struggle between powergroups, which makes you a delusional coward.
It is not your fault, really. This is the propaganda indoctrinated into us from birth, by the most useless cunts out there, that are just sociopaths and they don't know any better.
They are a tiny minority, but learned to manipulate masses with emotion, for thousands of years.
You are living a few hundred years ago. Open up to new knowledge.
You want to teach me economics? Ever heard of Austrian School? They don't teach that in indoctrination camps, right? My mum has masters in economics. Never heard of non-regulated "free market".
I give you links to Nobel Prize winning economists and you dare to teach me your Keynesian bullshit?
Because what bad has ever happened with central planning, central banking and all this monkey circus, right? Only 300 million dead in last 100 years alone. When will you learn your evidence is a joke?
Well... you are about to find out yet again what happens when economy you believe in is nothing but an evil prank on humanity... a mathematical certainty that it will pump up and crash... like every 50 years... and little crashes every 7 years... they are playing with it according to their cult's numerology symbolism.
You are being farmed my friend. The bond market's 300 year bubble is bursting. It will create the biggest reset of economy in human history. Any day now. Plus the fact nobody wants petrodollar anymore and this is why US keeps invading and inserting their people in foreign governments, but these are subjects for another schooling ;)
We, the free individuals are not a part of your collective unless we give our consent. We are building the new. Join us or at least get out of the way.
No one needs a violent, scared little hater around them anymore ;)
Wake up! (again)
I decided to become a mercenary for people who think they are better than anyone else. I thought being a useful idiot, will gain me your respect. I will control your life, threaten you death if you do not obey. I will extort your property from you, to pay for protecting you from hypothetical people, who might want to control your life, extort your property and threaten you death if you do not obey. If it was a real uniform, I would probably throw up from wearing it.
Anyone is welcome to use this text apart from the members of the most evil cult in history of human kind.
I believe that every interaction between humans should be voluntary. I want for each individual to be the only controller of their lives and their property. I am an anarchist, a capitalist, a voluntaryist, but most of all, I am an individual, who does not recognize your value by the status you achieved in an imposed, imaginary collective. No matter who you are; if you respect others, respect me, I will always respect you.
PEACE AND LOVE IN ANARCHY