America’s Election Meddling Would Indeed Justify Other Countries Retaliating In Kind

in #america4 years ago (edited)

There is still no clear proof that the Russian government interfered with the 2016 US elections in any meaningful way. Which is weird, because Russia and every other country on earth would be perfectly justified in doing so.

Like every single hotly publicized Russiagate "bombshell" that has broken since this nonsense began, Mueller's indictment of 13 Russian social media trolls was paraded around as proof of something hugely significant (an "act of war" in this case), but on closer examination turns out to be empty. The always excellent Moon of Alabama recently made a solid argument that has also been advanced by Russiagate skeptics like TYT's Michael Tracey and Max Blumenthal of The Real News, pointing out that there is in fact no evidence that the troll farming operation was an attempt to manipulate the US election, nor indeed that it had any ties to the Russian government at all, nor indeed that it was anything other than a crafty Russian civilian's money making scheme.

The notion that a few Russian trolls committed a "conspiracy to defraud the United States" by "sowing discord" with a bunch of wildly contradictory posts endorsing all different ideologies sounds completely ridiculous in a country whose mainstream media spends all its time actively creating political division anyway, but when you look at it as a civilian operation to attract social media followers to sock puppet accounts with the goal of selling promoted posts for profit, it makes perfect sense. James Corbett of The Corbett Report has a great video about how absolutely bizarre it is that public dialogue is ignoring the fact that these trolls overwhelmingly used mainstream media like the Washington Post in their shares instead of outlets like RT and Infowars. As a scheme to acquire followers, it makes perfect sense. As a scheme to subvert America, it's nonsensical.

There is currently no evidence that the Russian government interfered in the US election. But it is worth pointing out that if they did they had every right to.

"Whataboutism" is the word of the day. At some point it was decreed by the internet forum gods that adding "-ism" to a description of something that someone is doing makes for a devastating argument in and of itself, and people have hastened to use this tactic as a bludgeon to silence anyone who points out the extremely obvious and significant fact that America interferes in elections more than any other government on earth.

"Okay, so America isn't perfect and we've meddled a few times," the argument goes. "So what? You're saying just because we've done it that makes it okay for Russia to do it?"

Actually, yes. Of course it does. Clearly. That isn't a "whataboutism", it's an observation that is completely devastating to the mainstream Russia narrative. If it's okay for the CIA to continuously interfere in the elections of other countries up to and including modern times, it is okay for other countries to interfere in theirs. Only in the most warped American supremacist reality tunnel is that not abundantly obvious.

Every country on earth is absolutely entitled to interfere in America's elections. America is responsible for the overwhelming majority of election interferences around the world in modern times, including an interference in Russia's elections in the nineties that was so brazen they made a Hollywood movie about it, so clearly an environment has been created wherein the United States has declared that this is acceptable.

It amazes me that more people aren't willing to call this like it is. No, it would not be wrong for Russia to interfere in America's elections. Yes, what America did to Russia absolutely would make a proportionate retaliation okay. Of course it would.

Imagine this:

A guy in a cowboy hat runs into a bar and starts punching people. Most of them just rub their sore jaws and hunch over their drinks hoping to avoid any trouble, but one guy in a fur cap sets down his vodka and shoves the man in the cowboy hat.

The man in the cowboy hat begins shrieking like a little girl. All his friends rush to his side to comfort him and begin angrily shaking their fists at the man in the fur cap.

"Hey, he punched me!" says the man in the fur cap.

"That's a whataboutism!" sobs the man in the cowboy hat.

Can you imagine anything more ridiculous?

Seriously, how do people think this is a thing? How does anyone think it's legitimate to respond to my article about a former CIA Director openly admitting that the US still to this day interferes with elections around the world babbling about "whataboutisms"? What a doofy, indefensible monkey wrench to throw into the gears of political discourse.

Yes, obviously by asserting that it is acceptable for the CIA to meddle in other countries' elections, the US has created an environment where that sort of thing is acceptable. If Americans just want to embrace their American supremacist bigotry and say "Yeah we can do that to you but you can't do it to us cuz we have big guns and we said so," that's at least a logically consistent position. Crying like little bitches and behaving as though they've been victimized by some egregious immorality is not.

Channel 4 News reported on the research of the Institute for Politics and Strategy at Carnegie Mellon University's Don Levin back in November, writing the following:

Dov Levin, an academic from the Institute for Politics and Strategy at Carnegie Mellon University, has calculated the vast scale of election interventions by both the US and Russia. According to his research, there were 117 “partisan electoral interventions” between 1946 and 2000. That’s around one of every nine competitive elections held since Second World War. The majority of these – almost 70 per cent – were cases of US interference. And these are not all from the Cold War era; 21 such interventions took place between 1990 and 2000, of which 18 were by the US.

If Americans don't like election meddling, they need to demand that their government stops doing it. As long as it remains the very worst offender in that department, the US is entitled to nothing other than the entire world meddling in its elections.

I shouldn't even have to say this. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.


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Awesome post.

If it gives you any comfort, very few deplorables believe the Russians had an impact on the election and can quickly quote stories to you about the Obama administration interfering in the Israeli election.

It is only the sycophants in the Main Stream Media and the Deep State the believe it.

And the more they squeal about it - the less us plain folk believe it.

The masses are not as gullible as they would like to believe.

Lefties, progressives, and socialists don't buy it either. I think the only people who do are the hardline Democrats, the partisan fools so inundated with propaganda that they think Hillary Clinton is actually good.

I think you are right.

If the people pushing the meddling narrative did not hate Trump so viscerally they would regard the cheap ass shitposting by the indicted Russians as nothing of importance. But hatred bordering on neurosis exaggerates everything out of all proportion. So a narrative in an indictment (which is not even proof, but an assertion from a prosecutor) becomes the moral equivalent of Pearl Harbor or 911. As it is said, most grand juries will indict a ham sandwich. But the fanaticism of the Trump haters destroys all sense of moderation and leads to constant histrionics. Why people hate Trump this much remains a mystery. There is much to critique and dislike about Trump, as there is about any president, and Caitlin has not held back in her critique of Trump. I found much lacking in Obama and much much more in W. But hate was not my reaction. Trump haters seem to believe that there are two attitudes we can take about a president. One is incandescent hatred and the other is a reasoned critique. Trump gets the former for no clear reason and now W is being nicely rehabilitated into the latter category. This is especially puzzling when many of these people (especially in the media) formerly execrated W. And he deserved much of the strong criticism, especially for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. So far Trump has not initiated any wars, but he has negligently allowed legacy wars from Obama to fester on. He promised otherwise.
None of us is able to figure out why another person has such strong feelings about something, except when we know that they have been greatly slighted in some way. A cheated on spouse can exhibit such hatred. At that point the slightest gesture or word from the cheater is experienced like a blow to the face. So all things become exaggerated beyond reason. The only explanation for the heightened feelings of hate about Trump may be the fact that so many people had put all their political faith and hope in Hillary being elected. Yet, even if you think Hillary is a fine politician and a great leader, she’s not Mother Theresa. She’s a corruptible politician and a flawed human being like the rest of her profession. Investing such depths of emotion and trust into any frail human being is to lose your own humanity.
And now we’re facing ever increasing calls to punish Russia in some way. But we forget that this is not a schoolyard game. It is an invitation to hell on earth. Obama, in spite of his shortcomings, took a measured approach to Russia. And similarly, Putin and Russia have taken a measured approach to setbacks in Syria. I think Trump will resist reacting to this alleged provocation from Russia. But unfortunately many will allow their hatred of Trump to permit them to demand the unthinkable, hot conflict with Russia.

In the movie, Hunt for Red October, the hothead sub captain removes the timers from the torpedo fuses against all the advice of his lieutenants. This ploy fails and the torpedoes return to home in on their own sub. His lieutenant says something like, "you arrogant bastard, you’ve killed us all".

Let us hope we don’t have to say the same thing to our Trump hating friends.

Damned straight! This will be my first Steemit to Facebook share. Congrats!

I’ve said before, but I always get the feeling that we see these self-serving psychos as somehow misbehaving and we get all upset. Instead I feel we should expect 100% that this is what they will do and plan accordingly. Create a solution that factors in this reality. In today’s world “Might makes Right” and that is just the way it is. I do have a solution that considers this, I’m just having a hard time getting anybody to listen. They are all too busy being upset.

Any idea how to get there and also make this work in Europe and the rest of the world?

What can I do? I'll take the first step, and i hope others will follow to make more steps, Once we have a bunch of people making that first step, then we can start walking together, right?
Stick a few meme's on a stick, make some noise, rattle some cages. Etc. Making history the old style...

order a box of whistles to blow on as a noise of respect to all the whistle blowers?

Not sure how to get the ball rolling to be honest. We are going that direction. I just hope we don’t run out of time. I have some ideas in my head. After posting a reply to you the other day I started thinking how asking questions is always an approach that seems practical. It made me consider, what if we had what I would call a question field, where we worked together to field every question we could think of, laid them all out. Then used those as the elements in constructing a more clear picture. Today people work from “ideas” and then try to find data or arguments to support their ideas. Which is not always honest and neglects many honest “questions”:. I guess the first step is just changing the mindset from “lets expose what they are doing” to “how we can counter what they are doing in a more advanced 21st century way.” You will have to start with a bag phone whatever you do, but that is ok.


nice post. i like your post to much. thanks for share

"If Americans don't like election meddling, they need to demand that their government stops doing it."

AND Stop lobbysts meddeling in society by the use of corporate greed is also meddling in election. But then trough a backdoor.

BTW I just wrore an article about a Dutch whistleblower in the 80's who managed to mobilize the entire country. I hope it can inspire a few people to take this to a higher level alltogether.


Meh, it's all just a joke to them. Everything is tied to their investments and retirement pensions....The gravy train rolls on.

When a man on the street picks your pocket and you catch him, then what happens with that guy?
Now someone caught a much bigger gang of thieves in the act. Is that a reason to demand less?
If they can get away with this bullshit then that will be the end of the USA alltogether.
They are getting away for MANY years with crimes that destroyed many peoples lives.
So if they find this a joke, then it's even worse. The only way to save this planet is to turn the table on them. Turning the table is a solution that worked very well in the middle ages, and since they still live by 'the book' of those middle ages. this may actually work.

Agree and have been saying similar for some time. As has this smartypants....
'Half the world is cracking up in laughter. The United States doesn’t just interfere in elections. It overthrows governments it doesn’t like, institutes military dictatorships. Simply in the case of Russia alone—it’s the least of it—the U.S. government, under Clinton, intervened quite blatantly and openly, then tried to conceal it, to get their man Yeltsin in, in all sorts of ways. So, this, as I say, it’s considered—it’s turning the United States, again, into a laughingstock in the world.' - Noam Chomsky

Great piece. Found the link on the No Agenda Show facebook group (

"Russian trolls committed a "conspiracy to defraud the United States" by "sowing discord"

Honestly, Hillary couldn't stand Trump's experience leading big projects. Period

If She would ever run a little book shop in the way she was trying to run the gov. THAT would be weird.
Run on the street with 2 machine guns drag people in , make them buy books they dn't even want to read, push them back out the door and shoot them anyway.

O, and then collect tax on everything they owned

That will be one popular bookshop, right?

People will still stand in line to buy her books? They did not so long ago..

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