Interviewing a Hitman: Damnable or not?
Angelo and I have been working on Youtube together for a few years now. Angelo runs They Will Kill You @theywillkillyou and I run World5list. For all these years it had been a remarkably smooth and steady ride, when on December he called me up and told me he needed my help interviewing one of Pablo’s Escobar’s main assassins in Medellín, Colombia; John Jairo Velásquez Vásquez aka “Popeye”. 300 people were murdered at his own hands, while 3,000 more were coordinated by him; killings that were all orchestrated by none other than the most notorious drug lord in history: Pablo Escobar.
Despite the obvious implied dangers, Angelo didn’t ask me if I wanted to go, he told me we were going because, after all, that’s how we work together, and that’s probably one of the reasons we have had a decent amount of success on YouTube.
I could tell on the phone that Angelo was feeling excited, a little scared, and very content all at the same time. I wasn’t feeling anything just yet, but I did realize that this wasn’t something that he was trying to do, this was something he, thus we, would be doing.
To give you a good idea of how far we were getting in over our heads; everything that we had published up until that point on both of our channels, had been lists on a variety of topics. The closest we had been to coming eye-to-eye with a hit man was a list of the most notorious hit men, which was put together from the relative safety of our homes.
Angelo and I talked for a bit and he made it clear that we’d be going some time in the next few month.. It was left at that for the time being. I went to bed and I, in turn, was starting to feel excited while also feeling more than just a little scared. Colombia still has a pretty bad reputation, so meeting up with a stone cold professional killer didn’t seem like the brightest idea.
As I dwelt on it more the next morning and over the next few days, the worries started fading. Some quick research led me to the conclusion that Popeye had been able to start a new life after prison. To put it bluntly, he had apparently turned into somewhat of a celebrity! He was running a Youtube channel that, at the time was closing in on 200,000 subscribers (now over 300,000 strong) and he was featured in multiple documentaries, with a series in the making about his life, which will be available on Netflix this July.
When most (not all!) of the fear had subsided I started thinking about the moral implications of this whole endeavor. Granted, he had apparently already been given a podium by plenty of others, be it TV shows, documentaries, and journalists, aside from which he had succeeded in building his own audience on YouTube. But did we really want to provide a cold-hearted killer like this with yet another podium in the form of a large YouTube channel with almost 1,000,000 subscribers? Did we really want to party with him in Medellín, like he and Angelo had already been discussing?
If I get put in that spot then what am I going to do? Ticking off Angelo by refusing to relax together after a long day of shooting is one thing, but to turn down this guy--who is essentially doing us a favor by making himself available to us for 5 straight days--damn… After all, this is not a man who is used to asking for what he wants, this is a man who is used to getting what he wants.
Let me provide you with a short list of some of Popeye’s “credentials” to give you an idea of the kind of man we are talking about here.
- He killed his girlfriend after she was exposed as an informant.
- He killed 5 bouncers one night in a drunk fit of rage when they wouldn’t let him enter a club.
- He was partially responsible for robbing a nation of its hope in dark days by playing an important role in the murder of then--
presidential candidate Luis Carlos Galán. - He was involved in bringing down Avianca flight 203 in an attempt to kill off another presidential candidate, César Gaviria Trujillo. Gaviria wasn’t on the plane, but 113 other innocent people were. They all died a senseless death.
We’ve provided you some exclusive, raw and unedited footage only available here on Steemit in which Popeye goes into detail about drunkenly killing the bouncers at the nightclub:
The list goes on and on and on and on and on...
I was truly torn. I didn’t like the idea of providing this guy OUR podium, and I liked the idea of hanging out with him as if we were bosom buddies a lot less. Angelo, as it turned out, had been working on setting this up for the last few months, so could I really let him down?
I think in the end, I was simply far too intrigued and curious. I could say I didn’t want to let my friend down or that I didn’t want him to have to go by himself, thus making it more dangerous, but I’d be lying. The truth is that my curiosity got the best of me and it’s what made me set aside my moral objections.
I’ll be writing more extensive blogs about this trip on a consistent basis in the coming weeks. I’ll provide everyone who is interested in hearing about it with a detailed account of our trip accompanied by video footage. For now, firstly, I have a question for everyone who has gotten this far. If you did make it this far, I think it’s safe to assume that you are all wondering the same thing by now: would you give this guy a voice and a podium? Or is it disrespectful towards his victims and the tens of thousand that were left mourning? Should he get a chance to tell his side of the many stories with the risk of obtaining sympathy? Or should he be silenced? How is this any different (hypothetically of course) than providing Adolf Hitler a podium, after all Mein Kampf is forbidden for a reason right?
I’m genuinely interested in hearing about what you think. All I can say is that it was an interesting trip. But that I still wonder if anyone should have given or should ever give this man a chance to obtain sympathy, because trust me, he is good at it...
great article. will be following for sure.
I am not sure if silencing or giving him a chance to talk is the right thing also.
People will react different to him anyway. Most propaly with discust by his actions, some with interest, sympathy and even admire him, since power and money which comes with it, is still attracting people, no questions asked how you got it.
As celsius100 mentioned you are just telling the story (or bringing it to us) what we do with it, is out of your control zone.
Even in the sopranos or any mob movie we have some kind of connection to the bad guy most of the time despite what they are doing. Or we kind of forgive them and yes I am aware this is only fiction but there and in real life the world is not only black and white.
Regarding what you said about the Soprano's that fully true of course. I was rooting for him and I am watching House of Cards now and catch myself rooting for Underwood even. Weird how a mind works...
yes it really is fascinating. but imo a bit scary how fast we loose our values and root for the bad guy, only because we see that his life is not perfect also or has some problems or emotions we experienced before, too. Or maybe its the charisma, what do I know?
There is a good movie dealing with this topic The last king of scotland.
This was such an awesome trip! Let's go back down asap
I agree with @celsius100's comment that if he is willing to tell the story then it is going to get out, no matter what. As the person providing the outlet for the story, however, you have the opportunity to frame the story in the way you would like. It gives you the opportunity to show how you feel about the story while still giving your audience the information popeye relayed to you. I think as a journalist it is important to share information with the world, and as a journalist it is also important that you frame the story appropriately based on your own morals. It is one way to not neccesarily set aside your morals, yet still be able to interact with people like popeye.
I don't know if a journalist "framing" a story is still independent journalism. What I wish we could have done (which was a logistical impossibility because of a lack of time and resources), is talk to some of the relatives of his victims. That would have achieved exactly the same end goal that you are talking about without taking a biased stance.
Yeah, that is really what I meant by framing. Showing different view points and allowing the viewer to decide, it still allows you to shape the story. Most raw unedited stories can be convoluted, hard to follow, or even biased without the journalist creating balance and framework for the information they are trying to relay. Maybe you and @theywillkillyou will have to make a trip back down to speak with some of the victims or victims relatives. From his comment seems he'd be up for it!
Oh for sure, Colombia was beautiful too. I've done a good amount of travelling but I was blown away at time. From a production point of view it's realistic for us to go back for that. This was our first time and we made plenty of mistakes. We will have to learn from those mistakes and keep comments like yours in mind and then we will have to try and do something similar with a person that is fascinating enough to intrigue people. Thanks a lot for your input.
See this is what I love about steemit, content creators and content viewers able to work together and give feedback! I'll be following along for sure, and one of these days I need to make it down to Colombia too. My wife was there a few years back and had the most amazing time!
Medellin, Cartagena and Armenia. They were all beautiful, cheap, safe and people were incredibly friendly! Speaking a little bit of Spanish is advised tough! I didn't so I had to rely mostly on Angelo, a translator and some other friends of us that live there.
Yeah, I have business partners in Colombia that I would have to rely on, but thats just even more of a reason to head there. I'll have to look into Cartagena, had never thought to travel there before.
I must say I found your article intriguing to say the least. You are both very brave. I watched the Pablo Escobar series with very mixed feelings but have to be honest and say I continued to watch although many things upset me. Mostly I was shocked at the statistics on drug takers and the amount of money made selling drugs - not sure I can truthfully answer what I think. Followed you
Thanks, it's incredible how positive and encouraging everyone has been so far. A nice change of scenery from the YouTube environment!
Agreed - really seems like everyone out to help. Haven't seen any discouraging posts
Hopefully, as this platform grows, the moderators and "us bloggers" can work together closely and keep it that way! Growth is where the danger is too...
A very interesting read! Thanks for sharing :) Must've been one crazy experience to interview this guy. And however you feel about it, you did an awesome job letting the world know!
Thanks a lot. It ended up being a very impressive experience indeed, can't deny being glad I decided to go.
good post! I like that man, Popeye, he already paid his debt with society 23 years in jail, now is time for him to start a new life! blesseed
Thank you for your information
You are very welcome, hopefully it was an interesting read for you!
The moral argument was not a concern for me. You are providing an outlet. The story should have a wider audience. You are not the censor of the world. The story would get out with or without you, if he was willing to tell it. And if people buy the sympathy ploy after hearing the stories, well that is on them.
That's a well thought out argument. And yeah, he is eager to tell it, which I guess is a part of the problem. If anything, he is filled with pride, not shame.
I find disturbing that this guy is free...
It's odd to say the least...
Do you know why is he free?... Maybe got freedom by telling information?
Yes, he cooperated with the authorities. Question is: where do you draw the line when it comes to whom you even give a chance to cooperate?!
To answer your question yes and no some would like to know and others not . Must have been interesting to meet the man in reel life as one normally only see or here of a hit-man in the movies . What i would like to know is why he chose this profession only for the money ...?
I will for sure be addressing your questions in one of my upcoming blogs.