Triggered by the Exclusion List and Non-Apology.
The Exclusion List and Why I am SOOOO Triggered by it. Plus the non-apology, apology.
If you've missed the latest Steem Drama:
I don't get angry often, but this situation angered me. Cussing Ahead.
THE LIST
A random and not so perfect Steemian takes it upon herself to create a very inclusive, Exclusion List. She publishes the list with no explanation and her criteria is so bad the list includes people like @timcliff, and hundreds of other positive contributors to the economy. She makes some assumptions using what in my opinion is faulty logic and then makes a non-apologetic apology and is surprised it created conflict.
Here's the link to the non-apologetic apology
She seems to think that because she was going to offer a way to get off the list. (Except she didn't) That makes it okay for her to publish a list of people presumed guilty and allow them to spend their own time and effort to get off the list, which even by her own account was unfair.
"But some queries were also unfair as people were added to the list if their keys were stolen and SP powered down elsewhere or funds transferred to an exchange."
She makes the assumption that she's doing the community some type of service by publishing the list, if she wanted to use it for her own use, I would have no complaints. The fact that this list could hurt innocent people and create monetary damages seem to not be a part of her reasoning at all.
To me this was okay, because the tighter the list the better, and I was going to implement a way to apply to be removed from the list and classify accounts based on Persona, Brand, Community, Charity and so forth.
Remember she is creating an Exclusion List and publishing it, without explanation of her criteria, until the apology. This puts innocent people in the position to find out they are on the list in the first place and then have to defend themselves. If you are okay with this thinking I find that deeply troubling.
Complete bullshit. Once again, everyone has the right and ability to use their own stake to influence the site! Many of the people on the site seem to need to make jobs for themselves by attacking other people.
The apology reads more like a justification with zero regret and lacking the words, I'm Sorry, and displays a lack of understanding of how her actions could have caused real damages, and she labels the justified angry reaction as drama.
I fully acknowledge her freedom to publish her list, and I have the freedom to react!
I've put you on a list of control freaks who make up their own self created ways to feel important and like you have Authority.
It is unlike you to get so triggered. Bad day at the office?
LOL, I know right! I almost never get triggered. It is the idea of people putting our end-users on the constant defense!
I'm frustrated by those who focus on "others".
I know it was an over-reaction, which is why I use the word triggered. I saw red! :)
well, if it is any help, from what I understand the list wasn't available for download or use and was unable to be implemented by anyone so, any claims of it harming are likely mistakes (maybe egos were harmed).
Nearly all of the bots have blacklists these days, some have whitelists too. Both ways focus on others. I don't remember hearing of Paula going out of her way to do harm to anyone so I would give her the benefit of the doubt and I don't think saying sorry is a common act on Steem considering historical cases of outright abuse of trust and delegations. With all of the things that go on here, I find this one causing so much rage, relatively strange.
One day, this type of list will be created by many various groups to tell a whole host of things about users and target them for a wide range of activities. From what I understand, it was the first of its type on the Steem blockchain so, mistakes are bound to happen. I think when Hivemind takes effect, the possibilities to more easily pull data from the blockchain will see an explosion of statistics and lists but right now, it is quite difficult.
Not really my area though.
When the bots use whitelists and blacklists there is a specific use for them. Like running their own business. It is a right to refuse service type of deal.
People should not have to justify themselves to get off of an arbitrary list put together by someone who wants to be a community leader.
She can make her lists. I don't cuss often.
Fuck her list, Fuck her witness, Fuck creating a community that constantly has to defend it's self. :)
Totally agree, this list was dual purpose it was the second use case that got peoples backs up. It was posted under new Steemit Tools, by all means create a list for your own consumption/use, no problem with that, but then to create a tool that might be used by others and make a mistake with it, well if she thinks what she got was abuse in the comments to that post, I think it was fairly tame.
The follow up post just rubbed salt into the wounds to be honest. If someone cannot see that the criteria used to create that list was so very wrong, then it doesn't matter how great the skills they have in programming and data collection, the logic is broken, they don't understand the complexity of the issue and are not fit to administer such a list.
I'll give one example, the api allows for the creation of additional steem accounts, it is a legitimate function. I have used it to create an account for my daughter when it was proving impossible to get an account approved, I suspect lots may have done this for friends etc. You can't blacklist on that criteria alone, it is absurd. There are lots of other examples that others have listed as well.
Also this was a community initiative, wouldn't it have made sense to have proposed the idea first, got some feedback etc, the very things that would be helpful to Steemit? Any kind of blacklist tool for steemit is going to require help from the community as a collective, it is not for one individual or group to determine the criteria/rules.
I think I was MOSTLY triggered, by the assertion we could, "Work to get off of it". Fuck that. :)
(I don't usually cuss, I'm still triggered.)
😁 😂 🤣
I have not known you very long, but this is most deliciously unexpected, @whatsup! I admire the defense of the "little guys" and the innocent.
😎 😍
I rarely have a temper, but when I do, it gets me in trouble.
I rarely have a
Temper, but when I do, it
Gets me in trouble.
- whatsup
I'm a bot. I detect haiku.
lol! I can totally relate to this. I'm usually happy and easy going, but when I snap I'm not likely to hold back words. lol! This has gotten me in trouble many times. Still, I appreciate honesty above false nicety anytime.
Thank you for your understanding. :) I am an emotional person, who works to be rational. I am not a rational person devoid of feelings. :) It ends up costing me the occasional OutBurst. :)
lol, you really are triggered :D
Yes, I fully admit it. :)
I missed the drama because I have been actively unfollowing people who basically only post about Steem - and she was included. Nothing wrong with her content, but I'm trying to ensure that most of my support goes to authors & topics that will attract people from outside the Steem ecosystem, and Steem/Steemit is not one of those topics.
Also, I get so tired of this bot vs. people debate, as if there's only room on the platform for one or the other.
I actually don't have a problem with her publishing the list, though. She can't force anyone to use it. It sounds like it was a pretty low quality list, and it would've eventually been either fixed or ignored. The ironic thing is, a list like that is basically only useful to bots. Is any person really going to manually consult a list with 955,000 entries on it? "Here's my exclusion list so your bot can avoid supporting other bots?"
Last note, your link is broken (or was when I started this comment. ; -). I had to look through your comments to figure out what you were talking about. Here's the link for any other readers who might be in the dark.
Reasoning behind the Exclusion list, An Apology, and Time for a Change of Plan
she did have one interesting metric that she pulled out in her post, and its that she thinks there are 40,000 real users on the steem blockchain. Previous estimates put it at 60,000.
Out of those 60,000, how many are real shit posters? people who are just posting and fishing for upvotes? I wish I could get a real number, but it seems like real usership is under 20K to me, but thats just me pulling a number out of my ass.
I'd like to know too, just out of curiosity, but I think that all platforms have this problem. I understand that there's a fairly large industry for facebook and twitter "click farms."
OTOH, the point of stake-weighted voting on steemit is that in a practical sense it shouldn't matter. If you split your stake among 100 accounts or 1 account, your overall influence is the same. Regardless of how many accounts they use, people who invest more (in the form of time, money, creativity, etc...) have more influence than people who invest less.
I saw that stat, but I figure it was generated as thoughtlessly as the list.
That's life I guess. It's a sign of extreme cluelessness.When you have nothing to offer, best thing is to bring others down. It's really pathetic
Reading the "apology"makes me feel a bit triggered too. I spend many hours writing content for steemit, I'm not sure how long it takes her to Output from her spreadsheets.
I can tell you that I have more than twice the SP that she has though and that I've been here for almost twice as long as well.
What gives her the right to think that she is more high-and-mighty than me? or you? or anyone else?
I didn't see the list and I don't know if I was on it, but it sounds like McCarthyism at it's best.
I like to take "the middle" in conflict. In this case, I saw red!
I don't know if I was on "The list" either. It was the apology that angered me. And the fact real damages could be incurred. I've cooled off, but only down to an annoyed level. :)
Another oxymoron: Included in an Exclusion List
Don't worry. You're on my list? lol Should I publish it?
Thank you for posting this, I heard through some other folks about your discussion in a group last night but I am not in that group. I am only guessing this is what the discussion is about. This sort of reminds me of some groups that are "invite only," and exclusionary. At least most of the groups I am in they are "apply". It's examples of exclusionary that set me off too, at least give people a chance. After looking at some groups or people like the above, I'd rather not be in their group at all. I'm not sure how they feel they are "better" than others when in fact they are very flawed. SMDH.
Blessings,
Eagle Spirit
PS. I couldn't open that link to the non-apology apology.
He has spent a lot of time to determine the criteria for incorporating / incorporating people. The whole "seems to be important" and a "control freak" may be something that wants to control something in humans that wants to control some of the things here.
LOL
Busy bodies...
SMH
hehe, hilarious
sad to say that kinda looks like my mom when she's bored and looking after her rental building.
I'm still trying to figure out what her intention was with that list. Clearly she spent quite a bit of time to figure out the criteria to include/exclude people. I wasnt able to see it , just the aftermath, but im guessing a lot of people were on it. The whole "feel important" and being a "control freak" seems to be something that happens among people who want to control things way too much here.