My accounts are on the Hive blacklist

in #steemworld4 years ago (edited)

Will there be a SteemWorld on Hive?

I'm on your beloved witnesses blacklist, guys.
Do I need to say more?

Why are you blacklisted?

Maybe because I took part in de-escalating the situation and therefore voted for both sides (4 of Justin's witnesses). Freezing accounts in a "decentralized" blockchain is the dumbest thing I have ever seen. They are responsible for what is happening now and they obviously cannot handle the truth.

There is a reason why Steem, despite the clearly superior technology, was not in the top lists by market cap. It's not just a random occurrence. It looks like they don't want to lose control and by keeping the community small it is much easier to accomplish that.

"Divide and conquer the world" is their mission. Many who are taking part are not even aware of this fact. I have seen enough.

I love Steem and will continue to work on SteemWorld. Putting a developer like me on a blacklist shows that they won't give people a chance who share different opinions. The existing dictatorship in the core has now become clearly visible to the world.

As they lost control over Steem, they needed to start an own blockchain. Many worker bees blindly followed and continued to work for the same old self-chosen kings as before. Bring us only the honey we love or die.

I stay true to myself and will do my best to bring Steem to where it belongs. It's time.

Much love,

Sort:  

Das kann doch nicht wahr sein! Ich will es nicht glauben!!
Ich hoffe sehr, dass es sich um einen Irrtum handelt.
Einem der treuesten und besten Entwickler den Stuhl vor die Tür zu stellen, ist nicht nur dumm, sondern kriminell.

Ich protestiere!

Auf jeden Fall werde ich dich mit meinen Assets auf steem weiter unterstützen und hoffe, dass dieser Fehler korrigiert wird.

!invest_vote

P.S. @seo-boss steht auch in der Blacklist! Das muss auch korrigiert werden.

Bildschirmfoto 2020-03-20 um 10.00.23.png
Ich bin auch auf der Blacklist. Keine Ahnung warum.

Hi lichtblick. I believe there was a mistake in the code to exclude accounts, or rather a forgetful step of foreseeing proxies and ignoring what the accounts were voting on before proxying their vote. Thankfully accounts will still be able to claim their airdrop through the dao later on for those who didn't on purpose vote for sockpuppets. That's what I've heard at least, hope that info helps. :)

Dictatorship without democracy - Where is now free speech?

No that was not mistake. This was hostile Fork.
That was your plan to undermine many members who are steem investors and steem supporters. HIVE fork froze fork coins and took free coins to many steem members.

Many thanks for the clarification @acidyo.
My proxy witness choice with @pharesim was the right choice and I will get HP delegated by him until my Airdrop is realized.
Phew I am glad that this has been clarified relatively quickly.

(wo sieht man denn die Blacklist?)
Hab's gefunden :)

Double-u ist mir neben deinem Namen auch noch ins Auge gefallen. Müsst ja zwei ganz böse Schlingel sein.

das wäre mal doof - wird sich klären lassen hoffe ich

Ja hat sich schon geklärt. Danke.

Super!!! Das freut mich!

Wenn auf Hive ein sogenannter @Smooth dabei ist, will ich sowieso nicht dorthin. Da schreibe ich lieber auf der Blockchain eines schlecht informierten Investors, als auf der Blockchain von kleinen Diktatoren und Betrügern. Das Pack ist tatsächlich krank im Kopf!

If there is a so-called @Smooth on Hive, I don't want to go there anyway. I'd rather write on the block chain of a badly informed investor than on the block chain of small dictators and swindlers. That bunch is actually sick in the head!

Wie findest du diese Downvote Bazooka von Justin Sun von heute (21.3.2020) Nachmittag? Cool, gell? Der Junge lernt schnell, wie man so was macht!

bildschirmdruck 20200321 003.jpg

Wenn die Entscheidung so einfach wäre. Über kurz oder lang geht eine der beiden Plattformen in den Orkus. Fragt sich nur, welche.

Ich arbeite erst einmal parallel und unterstütze weiterhin meine Buddies auf beiden Seiten des Grand Canyons.

!invest_vote

Das ist natürlch schlau. Ich starte auf keinen Fall auf einer Fork, die mit einer Blacklist reüssiert. Das zeigt ja wohl schon deutlich, wie es weitergehen soll. Wie gehabt, nehme ich an. Na ja, vieleicht kommt ja Voice noch irgendwann in die Puschen. In Domainkauf und Ankündigen sind sie ja schon Weltmeister.

Hallo @afrog wenn die Investoren mal verstehen würden das sie mehr verdienen wenn sie die Finger vom Lenkrad der Blockchain nehmen würden !
Viel Machtgehabe

Das Pack widert mich an. Der Chinese ist zu blöd zu analysieren was er da eigentlich kauft. Die Circle-Jerk- und Selbstvoterclique will selbstherrlich weiter bestimmen. Ich glaub, isch gebb uff! Da sind zu viele Idioten mit Eigeninteressen am Drücker. Die denken, weil sie mal Geld gemacht haben sind sie jetzt auch geeignet, eine dezentrale Blockchain zu leiten. Viel zu wenige Demokraten haben tatsächlichen Einfluss auf dieses selbstgerechte Pack.

Meine einzige Hoffnung ruht noch darauf, dass wenigstens @dan seinen Prinzipien treu geblieben ist und Voice bald die Türen aufsperrt. Das dürfte dann was mit Hand und Fuß sein, sowie einem verlässlichen Führungsteam. Was der Steem bisher abgeliefert hat, war ganz extrem unter den Möglichkeiten. Da wird weder die eine, noch die andere Fork Erfolg haben und die Scheiß-Airdrops kann bei Hive lutschen, wer will. Ich stehe dafür nicht mehr zur Verfügung- Einmal 4 Jahre Verarschung reicht mir eigentlich.

Schade ich durfte @dan leider nicht kennen lernen bin Januar 18 hier aufgeschlagen ich weis aber das viele meinten der Falsche wäre gegangen er hat eine gute Reputation bei den Usern die ihn kennen.
Du lass mal den Rauch vergehen schauen wir in ein paar Wochen mal wie es aussieht
Hive ist am ersten Tag schon am bevormunden und
Blacklist und was für User da drauf stehen normal sollte ein Aufschrei da sein von #deutsch User
Ich hab bei hive einen kleinen Post gemacht über meinen Eindruck Blacklist ,Egoismus und Gier.
Ich mag ja Investoren aber die Sorte die den Profi erkennt Investiert und sich dann ein bisschen zurück niemand oder man muss selbst den Plan von den Dingen haben .
Ich glaubte ja sicher auf der Blacklist zu sein aber nein

Steem on

Das Fröschen spricht mir schon aus der Seele. Du solltest standup comedien machen. Ich würde es feiern. Wie den Rether....

Danke, liebes Blümchen. Das war aber gar keine Comedy, sondern nur eine emotionale Betrachtung dessen, was passiert. Tatsächlich bin ich bei Standup eher ein Breakdown. Schlagfertigkeit ist nicht mein Ding.

Übrigens – ich gebe nicht auf. Sie haben meinen Stake verdoppelt. Danke dafür!

I'd rather write on the block chain of a badly informed investor than on the block chain of small dictators and swindlers.

Justin Sun ist leider beides: badly informed und ein Schwindler und Diktator.
Im Moment hat man die Wahl zwischen Pest und Cholera. Kleine und große Schwindler wird es aber auf beiden Seiten immer geben. Und dezentral gibt es weder hier noch dort.

@freiheit50 denkt du hast ein Vote durch @investinthefutur verdient! ----> Wer ist investinthefutur ?
@freiheit50 thinks you have earned a vote of @investinthefutur !----> Who is investinthefutur ?

@freiheit50 denkt du hast ein Vote durch @investinthefutur verdient! ----> Wer ist investinthefutur ?
@freiheit50 thinks you have earned a vote of @investinthefutur !----> Who is investinthefutur ?

Schöne neue Hive-Welt, mit einigen Imkern die schon Chiller's Propostal ein DVote verpasst haben.

Ich protestiere mit Dir! ;-)

Ich habe gerade die Liste durchgesehen. Da stehen mehrere von unserer deutschen Gemeinschaft drauf.

Ja, ich habe es auch gesehen. Was machen die da nur.... , ich verstehe es nicht. Am freien Markt setzt sich das bessere Produkt durch. Mit Zwang und Blacklist zu agieren ist echt nicht gut.

// Accounts excluded who voted a minimum of two sockpuppets or proxied someone who voted a minimum of two and who didn't unvote before the hive announcement with more than 1k sp

The Rules of the blacklist is too harsh, it's ridiculous. 1000SP before the announcement is $130. That's nothing. @blocktrades and whoever is behind the hardfork need to revise this ASAP

I think removing the ninja minded stake, is only the first step

Moving to the new Blockchain, we expect a safe place for free speech and free opinion. We can take sides, we can vote for whoever we want even for Justin Sun if he decides to onboard hive.

I expect Hive will be a completely better version of Steem not just a hardfork. We don't want Steem Blockchain code, we had millions of problems with it. We want the community, its values and its experiences; @steemchiller is part of that.

If Hive will be another centralised Blockchain under different names, I will be leaving it

I think it's too late for them to fix that matter... They should've seen the problems right away and fixed them before putting that list into the code.

It isn't too late. By design it can be corrected in a later HF or even directly via an SPS proposal. Make your case and if Hive stakeholders agree then it will be done.

But that is not really a smart way of approaching such matters. In dubio pro reo. You should take the list to a usable content before applying it. What you are doing is equivalent to putting innocent people into jail because you slightly suspect they might maybe be criminal.

You're approaching that matter in a shoot first talk later fashion which I don't like.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the list, except for one technical error I'm aware of.

People should take responsibility for their actions. If you support centralizing a chain in any way then don't expect a new chain built for the entire purpose of decentralization to give you free coins.

Everyone on that list or not still has their Steem. Nothing has been taken away.

I'm sorry @smooth, but I'm calling bullshit on that one. Go back to the article I wrote 3 years ago when I told you this place was centralised.

You said it wasn't and I was wrong, you even flagged me for daring to suggest that Steemit was centralised.

Now I see why, because you and a bunch of the other whales were made so because you were allowed to mine Steem, thus giving you and the other members of the cabal a ninja mine.

But the fact is, you sat quietly and enjoyed the fruits of your ninjamine. Now when Ned sells his share of the spoils, suddenly you and the others jump on your soapbox and bang the decentralisation drum.

WHERE WAS THAT DRUM FOR THE LAST 3.5 YEARS???

Now and your buddies can have all the power on the new chain, whilst claiming decentralisation, and the lost sheep who want you to vote for them will agree with you.

Well, not me, I'll always call it like it is, flag me, vote me, ignore me, at least I'll be able to look at myself in the mirror for not ignoring this hypocrisy.

Cg

except for one technical error I'm aware of

Are you going to fix that prior to taking that list live? Because that's a thing fixed in 3 Minutes if you know what you are doing.

Otherwise I think we can peacefully disagree on that. I don't have the stake to change such things, so I'll have to live with what you are doing...

No, it isn't feasible to change the code so soon before a hardfork. There are already exchanges running the release, and they already complained that getting it only a day or two before was way too late. (Ideally hard fork code is frozen and release a month before, but this was considered an emergency situation.)

This will need to be addressed on the Hive side.

That's very bad for all the users which are affected despite not applying to your criteria. I expect a quick solution for those accounts from the top 20 hive witnesses. ASAP after the hardfork. Those users shouldn't have to do anything more than others to get what they deserve.

Nothing wrong with it? I didn't vote anybody anymore and I am on the blacklist honey....

The same thing they did with STINC's stake, which started all of this drama.

Does this mean that accounts less than 1000 will not receive Airdrop?

It means if someone proxied with more than 1000sp and did not unvote the puppets they don't get the airdrop. anyone with less than 1000sp does not get counted as a traitor.

This whole thing is so hypocritical. A large amount of those witnesses received a chance to mine Steem and that is why they are whales.

So they are fine with a ninjamined stake if they own it, but not if anyone else does.

Cg

I'm pretty sure no person put you on a blacklist... the IF THEN mechanism of the decision simply had you on that side of the code and they couldn't pick favorites so save or otherwise. Sounds like they wanted to make sure there was no picking and choosing.

I really want to see you and your project on Hive... I know there are a lot of people who'd love to support you and what you do. Your site is wonderful.

I've seen people talk about how they'd be more than willing to support the recourse for you to get hive tokens equal to what they could have been.

However it does sound like you're not interested and that makes me sad... but I suppose that's your decision.

I'm pretty sure no person put you on a blacklist... the IF THEN mechanism

Does it mean that nobody had the time to review the list? Lame excuse. Blame it on the IF THEN mechanism and the world keeps spinning. How about to make contact with the accounts on the list and ask what where going on? No?

There was very little time to review it. I saw the list yesterday afternoon and explained why I think it was the wrong approach. Unfortunately there was not enough time for larger discussion as the code had to be finalized, tested, and distributed to exchanges so they can support the airdrop.

It's an unfortunate situation we have to work through as best we can. I'm hopeful the proposal system will work to include members of the community in the Hive airdrop who token holders agree should be included and do not have an intent to centralize the chain.

The list was not made by a person. It was made by deciding on criteria (supporting centralizing the chain) and then running a script. No one went through the resulting list and decided to add or remove subjectively.

There will be an opportunity for appeal on the Hive blockchain using its equivalent of SPS. Corresponding tokens have been reserved in the DAO account for this.

Don't you think that's how it should be with no favorites being played? If he had been tipped off prior to infraction instead of someone else it would have been way more problematic don't you think?

I'm included to the list, I didn't receive any notice or warning about it. Nobody reach out.

And I didn't expect to be included since I condemn "centralization", I happened to follow a proxy.

It seems that they don't bother to review what the code decides for this "Hive blacklist", the Hive team are group of devs and it's their job to put up the codes for Hive, but it looks like they didn't appoint anyone to review the blacklist.

I feel bad for myself but I feel worse for @steemchiller considering his effort for the community.

I'm sorry this impacted you negatively. Did you understand how your proxy was being used to support centralization? I read the original announcement post and thought it was clear that only obvious supporters of centralization would be included. I was surprised and very frustrated by the criteria and the number of accounts excluded. I argued against it, but did not gain enough support in time to do change opinions.

I hope the proposal system can be used effectively to help you and others who want to participate in the Hive airdrop get those tokens.

yeah somebody set the rules for the if then mechanism...

and this dude put him on the blacklist...

The if then mechanism is about picking lel. Same as select from where and every other mechanism where you set parameters which filters data.

This was dumb decision.

He is totally right with every word he is saying.

Maybe because I took part in de-escalating the situation and therefore voted for both sides

This is how a "real witness" should have handled.

I respectfully disagree in that voting for accounts actively sybil attacking the chain dramatically decreases the security of the chain as far as DPoS is designed. Witnesses who understand this should not support sock puppets.

That said, I don't agree with how this was decided. I tried to change minds and said it would be a black spot on the beginning of this chain. Unfortunately I was unable to convince those involved to take a different approach and just focus on the Steemit ninja-mined stake.

This is how a "real witness" should have handled

I disagree. It was part of an attack. I think @steemchiller is the model of what a Steemian should be, but actively supporting such an attack goes a step beyond saying that he was in the right to do so. What he should have done (if he didn't support centralization) is to vote for witnesses whom he believed in, even if it excluded all of the top witnesses who supported the softfork. I could even see voting for a single sock, but not 4.

That being said, mistakes are made and if anyone deserves latitude, I think Steemchiller does. He is upstanding and moral.

A witness should do the best for the community and this is NOT working against justinsun.

A compromise and more good communication would have been the right way.

The Problem with the ninja mine stack should have been resolved through discussions.

Sun is a big investor with a valuable network and this is something steem needs, a witness should have tried everything to generate added value out of this partnership instead of doing aggressive forks without communication.

this wasnt done.

PS: with 4 witnesses in the top positions you can not decide by your one, so their was a chance of kickstarting communication between sun and community witnesses.

Of course i understand your points, but the goal of a witness should be to give us steemians (their voters) the best results in form of steem as a product for users and steem as an investor. This goes by partnerships and onboarding new users due to marketing and an technological outstanding product, which needs money which for example sun has.

I agree, but I do feel they made a lot of attempts to contact them before the soft fork. And even after. They didn't without any connection. They announced it was temporary and expressed the desire to communicate. Before the softfork, the only communications coming from the tron side were that a token swap was going to happen on a timeline, and if the swap wasn't done, that your Steem would "turn into nothing". There was also the deal with Justin using tron Genesis tokens in voting which he wasn't supposed to do.

So with all that going in and the combination of no other communication, I can understand why they took that action. I may feel they went a little too far by implementing a total freeze, but that was also mitigated somewhat by the public declaration of it being temporary.

From that point, it went downhill.

But there was someone who wrote that IF THEN mechanism who is responsible for that. Seeing that @steemchiller and others are one the list proves that this IF THEN mechanism is not good. I deem it obvious that a @steemchiller doesn't have his place in that list. The author of the mechanism should've seen that and fixed that mechanism.
Edit: I don't want to write redundant comments so I'll do that in an edit. I believe that the rules are not adequately set. If you don't believe that, that's fine. But I also believe that in general you are no better that justin sun if you choose to exclude certain accounts because of their opinion.
Another thing about that list that bugs me is that this only applies to accounts bigger than 1k SP. For one because that is a completely random number. And because this is completely unfair. Should I split up my stake to a few accounts in preparation for the next blacklisting of accounts because then they won't be blacklisted?

The criteria were widely supported by those creating the Hive blockchain. THE ENTIRE PURPOSE of the effort was to escape the centralization that destroyed Steem. Including people who actively supported that centralization does not make sense.

That being said, there is an appeal mechanism and if anyone believes that they were unfairly excluded they are free to appeal to the Hive stakeholders to reverse the decision. This could even be done to reverse the entire list for that matter.

I deem it obvious that a @steemchiller doesn't have his place in that list.

I don't think it is obvious at all. He voted for the sock puppets and never removed that vote until after the Hive announcement. You may not have strong views on centralization vs. decentralization but the people who volunteered their effort (an enormous effort at that) to make Hive happen most certainly do have strong views on that. If they didn't Hive would not exist.

Strange. I don't understand your criteria. I voted for 4 witnesses and only one is running 0.22.5.

It's not my criteria, I was reporting what is in the code and I also think it is quite reasonable.

If you feel your account was wrongly included in the list you can appeal to the Hive community for a correction.

That your hiding behind a community it's a little pathetic. Don't you think. I only have 4 votes. Maybe only one does not meet your criteria. That's not a clean start for you guys.
Shady start once again.

What do you mean by one again?

@blockbrothers supported Sun and said they would agree to all his demands. They said if he wanted they'd upgrade to 22.5 if he asked them to, but 22.1 did the same thing for him so otherwise they'd stay on 22.1

So @blockbrothers and triple.aaa are the two witnesses opposed to decentralization that you voted for.

If you didn't realize the views @blockbrothers supported, you are welcome to uses the SPS system on hive to request your airdrop from the community.

Don't you see how stupid this is? How can I know what is in their heads? They are real people not a sockpuppets. I voted for @blockbrothers because I respect @exyle who has been the most positive person here for all these years. Why do I have to explain this at all and to whom? What about (decentralization) democratization?

You explain it to the community because you supported witnesses that are against decentralization and Hive we didn't know what was in your head when you did that. I believe the witnesses are planning to make a post about how you do that soon. After you make the post, the community on Hive would vote whether to airdrop you funds or not.

Also, this is what @blockbrothers said: https://steempeak.com/steem/@blockbrothers/q6q77z

He has as much of a place as any on the list.

Same rhetoric. Same voting.

The fact that he provides valuable service doesn't give him a pass.

Same rhetoric. Same voting, it's all the same from the hive folks.

Bist Du nicht für mich, so bin ich gegen Dich. Krank ist das.

P.S.:

Mir fehlt etwas der Durchblick bei diesem Thema.
Aber generell finde ich es schade, wenn sich die Fronten so verhärten und alle unversöhnlich miteinander umgehen.
Ich kann beim besten Willen nicht beurteilen, wer da nun Recht oder Unrecht hat. Womöglich geht es anderen auch so.
Allerdings tendiere ich ganz klar zu dezentralisierten Strukturen. Ich fühle mich dort am besten aufgehoben, wo das am besten gesichert ist. Aber wo wird das sein?

Aber wo wird das sein?

Bei einer "freien Blockchain" gleich mal zu demonstrieren, wer das Sagen hat - damit ist doch alles gesagt!
Menno!

Guck dir die Liste mal ganz genau an - du wirst viele Bekannte wieder finden!!!

Wie in Russland: Putin gegen die Oligarchen und umgekehrt. Saublöd.

Das Leben lehrt: Freiheit ist eine Illusion, wenn man in einer Gesellschaft lebt. Etwas freier ist man nur, wenn man Macht/Geld hat. Oder man zieht sich komplett aus der Gesellschaft zurück, wenn sie es denn überhaupt zulässt. Dann kriegt man Zahnweh und es ist vorbei mit der schönen Freiheit... Echte Freiheit gibt es nur im Kopf, und selbst die hat noch ihren Preis.

Genug Küchenphilosophie. Hier geht es nur um binäres Geld und was das "draußen" noch wert ist, wird man vielleicht schon in den nächsten 6-8 Wochen zu spüren bekommen.

Mir wäre es auch lieber, man würde mit dem besseren Produkt überzeugen. Machtspielchen, Unterdrückung und Herrschaftsavancen wirken auf mich gelinde gesagt nicht gerade vertrauenserweckend.

Allerdings bin ich auf dem Gebiet echt ein Noob. Ich habe echt keine Ahnung davon und kann hier nur meine ersten "Emotionen" wiedergeben. Mal gucken, wie sich das ganze entwickeln wird. Ich kann da echt momentan nur abwarten.

Lieber Andy,
in so einem Fall gibt es nichts mehr zu gucken. Die Volltrottel haben sich tatsächlich schon bein Start disqualifiziert. Ich wünsche denen einsame Tage bei Cirkle-Jerk und Selbstvoting.

Ich halte mich mit Urteilen auf Grund meiner Unwissenheit lieber mal zurück. Erst müsste ich mir mal eine Überblick verschaffen. Mal sehen, ob sich die Fehler noch ausbügeln lassen. Allerdings wurde echt von beiden Seiten Porzellan zerlegt, soweit ich das beurteilen kann.

This time I was very sad, the community was busy fighting and seizing power, and ignored SMT is the future of Steem.

Maybe because I took part in de-escalating the situation and therefore voted for both sides

Participating in a sybil attack orchestrated by a single party is an interesting method of de-escalation. As they say, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. It's a shame despite creating a very useful tool for steemians to use, that you chose to play both sides. Rather than help solidify the final stand of the community, you chose to hedge your bets.

I hope you get nothing, but that's the opinion of one person. I know you have a lot of fans, so most likely we'll get to experience your whining on Hive at some point in the near future.

If you drew your line in the sand by supporting witnesses that were trying to undermine our community it makes sense why you wouldn't be 100% welcomed with open arms into the new community after showing your colours.

You can't be rooting for Sun and simultaneously expecting a hand out from the people whose community Sun tried to destroy.. It doesn't work like that and it's absolutely fucking asinine to expect to be treated well and given a token handout when you don't deserve it.

Tampoco te mereces nada, blessings :)

Ich hoffe das lässt sich noch schnell ändern 🤬

Vermutlich nicht, einige Witnesses laufen schon mit 0.23.

While they're certainly free to include/exclude whomever from the airdrop, that list did seem excessive to me.

Many weren't so much 'supporting centralization' but rather were voting in a way to prevent HFing away certain accounts, or voting both sides to encourage mediation, or were inactive and had proxied their votes beforehand ignorant of the drama, or just didn't entirely subscribe to the prevailing narrative of a hostile takeover.

Of course it's within their right, but I don't know if uprooting and leaving behind people who voted slightly in a way contrary to their views, many of whom were long term investors and supporters of the chain, is in the spirit of decentralization and respect for property rights.

I believe you'll get enough support to get your HIVE, I'll definitely vote any such SPS to that effect. I just hope other less recognized people affected, especially in the Chinese and Korean community will also be able to make successful claims.

Hi @steemchiller,

All emotions set apart, and I don't want to give any opinion, just want to say that a lot of average users like me (you know them, the silent majority) will really really really miss you and steemworld on hive.
I always see discussions between extremes here... but not a lot from the average users who just enjoy posting on steemit/Hive/steempeak/... and others.

I can only hope you will reconsider and try hive too... I'm 100% sure that a lot of people will support you! I know I will personally do whatever I can to support you if you decide to join hive...and a lot of others will follow.

You made a wonderful piece of software that is used by many... many of wich don't even know or understand they will not have access to their favorite UI on hive...

So please, reconsider my friend!

Its cool, it will still be useful for them when they continue using Steem.

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