Proposal: Add Promoted to Visible Post Payout - so Promoted Posts will climb higher in Hot and Trending

in #steemit4 years ago (edited)

This post in one image:

The current Promoted section in steemit is constructed like a TV network station that has a separate channel for commercials. No one watches it because they are separated from all the good channels (hot and trending). And if no one watches them, no one pays for them.

Add promoted to visible payout (post $$$ value)

So if someone spends $500 on promotion - his post will display $500 value and this will almost guarantee him to get into Trending - at least for some time. If he spends less, at least he has high chances to getting into Hot.

This is madness!

No kind sir. Currently almost no one uses Promoted functionality (and it is very important function - more about it in a second). The only thing that spending SBD on Promoted gives, is showing up in Promoted tab - and no one checks it anyway.

What happens instead is almost everyone is using Voting Bots. Now, don't get me wrong - I'm the last to tell you what you should do. I use voting bots myself!

But there is a problem

If you send 1 SBD to voting bot and receive 2 SBD - you have an inflation. If everyone does that, SBD and STEEM are getting worth less and less because we're increasing the SBD and STEEM supply, but the demand stays the same. We're printing new SBD but it is not followed by any valuable work. I know, this is part of STEEM economy, but still we're mass producing SBD not thanks to people voting on our good, valuable content, but because we're paying to print more SBD for us.

You have to also remember that because so many people are constantly paying to voting bots, they become huge steem power holders - they centralize STEEM with each day. Who knows, maybe one day everyone's vote will mean nothing and only by buying vote from voting bot you will be able to earn anything?

But let's leave voting bots alone, some are not that bad.

Let's talk about Promoted

This is where the Promoted kicks in - it is designed to do the opposite, what voting bots are doing - they create deflation. If you were not aware, when you are using Promoted functionality, you're not paying anyone - you're destroying those SBD. Exactly like throwing dollars into fire - no one gets them. This reduces the supply which leads to one thing - we're all getting richer because SBD and STEEM are getting a little more valuable witch each burned SBD.

But no one uses Promoted ><

Thankfully, there's a simple solution - add SBD paid on Promoted to the visible post value - you know, this small text filed under a post that you check every 3 seconds when you make a new post ;)

So if I have 0 votes, but burned my precious 200 SBD on Promoted - will display that this post is worth $200 and I'm instantly in the hot section. Simple.

And it's not unfair! People already spend their SBD on voting bots so what's the difference. If we can show people that it's worth to burn SBD on Promoted - it will be good! The more SBD they burn, the more STEEM and SBD will be worth!

And if they Promote spam and bad content - they will only loose money because no one will vote on them and they will be kicked out from Hot and Trending. But if it's a good content - their investment should return because their good content gets good visibility and probably many votes.



Upvoting for the work you put into this, but I disagree on some points.

  1. A post's value is what it is. That number should not be displayed differently and even if the display changed, that wouldn't change the underlying blockchain value of the post which (presumably) the condensor code ( uses to sort posts into Hot, Trending, etc.

  2. Voting on posts doesn't change SBD inflation. The same amount of rewards are going to be given out by the blockchain no matter what. More votes by different people just spreads it around more. We're not mass-producing SBD any more or less with the introduction of pay-for-play voting bots.

  3. There is a reason (some) people like Steemit. There are no ads. Content is voted on by individuals (or their bots) and organized based on the power of influence through vested stake in the platform (Steem Power). In theory, those with the most to lose by promoting crap content which drives people away from Steemit instead of to it will be the most motivated to promote good content.

If we flood the "normal" channels with promoted content, then we fundamentally change the dynamics of Steemit. Now it's no longer about popular posts showing up in Hot or Trending, it's about who has the biggest bank roll or rented delegated Steem Power.

Here's an alternative approach:

Buy Steem. Power Up.

It's really that simple. You'll get 6.7% increase in creation of new Steem Power, you'll drive the price of STEEM up for everyone, you'll earn more in curation rewards for the long term, and you won't have to pay a bot or a delegation service (who are making nice profits of their own).

In the future, I think the proper way to handle promoted posts will be to show clearly how much money was spent to promote the post (I think, like votes and views, that's also an important signal) without having to click the arrow for details (maybe a small Post Promoted by $10.00 text at the bottom of the post). I also think there should be an option to earn SBD for those who want to see ads/promoted posts. Instead of 100% going to null when posts are promoted, what about a percentage going to a fund which pays out to those who choose (via a custom_json setting on their profile) to view promoted posts in their stream, much like Twitter or Facebook shows promoted posts.

This, I think, could work well.

This comment just inspired a full post: Consider Buying Steem. Be an Owner, not a Renter.

Holy cow, your comment destroyed my post ;) All your points are valid, I've got only few things to add:

  1. Of course you are right, we can't create more SBD that there is in the steemit code. I think what I meant was lowering the reward pool - so all posts are worth a little more. Although I need to educate myself on this matter, sorry if I'm making error somewhere here.

  2. Maybe with each website view, some randomly chosen promoted post can be displayed on the trending tab? The higher the promoted value, the higher the chance to be displayed with each website view (load). But only one post, additionally marked as "promoted". Like always on 4th place from the top?

Generally I really like the idea of burning as much SBD as possible and Promote functionality definitely needs upgrade. But allowing everyone to buy his place on trending is probably too much. Thank you for your comment.

Now, it's time to write about @promoted voting bot, it needs some love :)

Sorry, I didn't intend to destroy anything, and I can be very opinionated. :)

  1. That's a good clarification. The reward pool finds balance on it's own using the current supply, but I'm not very familiar with the details of that calculation. Burning SBD impacts the price because it impacts the supply and demand involved, as far as I know.

  2. Yeah, I like that idea but more so if people could opt in to it. I love the idea of Steemit being completely add free (even promoted content free). That said, if there was some small encouragement via a reward (or maybe just a setting turned on by default for new accounts?) to have those promoted posts show up here and there, I think that would be great.

tip! 0.5 simple

Nice thoughts here.
Its good to see opinions like that from where we, the less tech guys can understand a bit more from the mechanism here.


Came because of Gerard Butler :)

This makes a lot of sense! Sometimes I go to the promoted tab , look at the posts on the first page and see the wallet transfers of the authors on the promoted page ,some of them pay as much as 100sbd and don't even make up to 20$ or get up to 100 views sometimes. So I agree with you if you promote your post with 200sbd then the hot and trending algorithms should treat that post like they will a post with 200$ post value without paying out 200$ after 7 days of course

I do not agree that the post that pays $500 should automatically be on the Top or Trending unless the metrics for those sections worked with that number in mind. I don't know the algorithm, but I also believe people look at the Promoted section as much as they do the Hot or Trending sections, which is probably not as much as just their personal feed or just browsing specific hashtags. I have the same analytics as you though, so this is just all conjecture. While I do not agree, I like the post and hope to see further discussion on this topic and maybe people can shed more light on the inner workings of these sections.

Yes, trending and hot takes into account the total payout - and people can already buy this place using voting bots.

I agree! The promotion feature is underused, and underuseful as it is... we should be sponsoring the reward pool not whales and their voting bots!

Exactly :) next stop: github and open source code

The honest truth about this post is the very fact that i am not encouraged again to even promote my post. Two times in the past, i did promote my vote and got nothing back. it was like i even lost that cash so i decided not to go for it again. it is for this reason that this pieces of advise are coming in handy. Let it be improved so it can serve its purpose

nice post ..thanks for sending me 0.012 SBD.

This makes a lot of sense. Resteeming right away.

This post has received a 0.98 % upvote from @booster thanks to: @cardboard.

I upvote you please upvote me

Wonderful! Thanks for adding to my Steemit _knowledge


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