I Support Forking Out Steemit

in steemit •  5 months ago  (edited)

As a witness, I fully support forking out the account @steemit and any related accounts that were created during the unethical ninjamine.

STINC stands for Steemit Inc, which "runs" the steem blockchain and owns the Steem account @steemit and several other accounts. This company ninjamined something like 70% of all STEEM. I will not go into the details of this ninjamine because it has been covered extensively elsewhere.

Through mismanagement, STINC has sold over half of their STEEM, which should have been at least $76,000,000 -- and without much to show for it. This selloff has represented constant sell pressure and has damaged STEEM's value for all those who own it.

Evidence of Steemit's poor performance and negative effect on price can be understood by comparing the price of STEEM to DOGE. DOGE is a cryptocurrency launched in 2014. It was quickly abandoned by the development team and as of the time of writing this post, has not had a significant update in over 3 years. You can see for yourself here: https://github.com/dogecoin/dogecoin

DOGE has a total market cap of about $248M and is ranked 24. By comparison, STEEM is ranked 43 with a cap of about $114M, even after this recent 30% pump. So, even without any development for over 3 years, DOGE has a higher market cap and a healthier market than STEEM.

How can this be? The simple answer is that STEEM is a toxic asset because of systematic dumps by STINC. These dumps result in no added value for STEEM because the resulting revenues are not rolled into STEEM blockchain development in any significant way.

It can be concluded that STINC only wishes to dump STEEM to reward STINC shareholders, with no regard to STEEM owners.

In a sense, this is fine. It's a private company. However, what STEEM holder wants STINC shareholders to get rich by sucking value from the holder's portfolio?

Also, I believe that the existence of the @steemit and related accounts make Steem a security and not a cryptocurrency. Consider that STINC fully controls the blockchain. They have nearly all the witnesses over the barrel, except a few of us too far down the witness list to matter. This makes STEEM a security, and it is tainted for that reason.

The best way to convert STEEM to a cryptocurrency is to eliminate STINC's overwhelming stake.

Many will claim that forking out the @steemit and related accounts does not adhere to the ideals of cryptocurrencies. But that doesn't matter. If STINC has controlling stake then it's not a cryptocurrency and these ideals don't apply.

We should fork out STINC's account and make STEEM a true cryptocurrency, then discuss which ideals apply. This will also end the relentless dumps.

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Forking the coin is dangerous with a capital D. I have no opinion either way as both have Pros and Cons. The positive from all this is stink is 50 percent done so far. I think Steem has performed just as well as any other currency over the past few years even with lack lustre development and poor management. I dont think a fork will solve any issues for the supply or price of steem in the short term. Coins will be moved and dumped at will regardless. A fork will put us all at risk and i don't think it will necessarily go to plan.

The concept of a truly beneficial blockchain for everyone to share and enjoy will always be tainted by the greed of a few. A few good whales are present here, much like you @steemed.

But many, I say again, many, will just contribute to the self-poisoning of our beautiful world by lying to themselves doing utmost greed inside what could have been the best approach to sharing the resources as given to all of us.

And what are the resources of this world? MONEY is one yes, but intelligence and brotherhood is one equally good resource that is inherent in many minnows here.

How I wish all whales are like you, @steemed. God bless your thoughts.

Should all mined accounts be forked out equally then?

You make some valid points.

However, I don't agree with all of them.

First I don't think Doge is higher than Steem because of anything to do with Steem. There are plenty of fine currently updated currencies that are far lower than Steem too - but none of them have DOGE.

suchdogedead.jpg

I'm surprised the market cap isn't higher TBQH.

"We should fork out STINC's account and make STEEM a true cryptocurrency, then discuss which ideals apply."

The is a dealbreaker for me. So many revolutions are nothing more than reactions that snowball and eventually succeed, only then to find out that ruling is a different task. Deciding how to rule NeoSteem after toppling Steem is a bad idea, and I won't help.

If you can get a reasonable consensus on how things will work BEFORE the fork, I'll listen to what is proposed, and make a decison based on that. I will not even consider simply reacting to disappointment in present leadership and situation with the goal of ending up trying to figger out what to do with this blockchain thingy we haz nao.

That will be hard to do. Not many revolutions manage it, and most of them only make things worse. That's why.

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Is my first day in steemit. I wait luck in this, by the moment $0.02 in activities today with post of 2 articules. Tomorrow I wait post article about Mariano Rivera in Hall Of Fame of mlb generation 2019 in #sport

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Welcome to Steemit! I recommend you have a look at @dragosroua's blog for articles for folks who are new here. It will be helpful.

GL!

It will not work because Steemit Inc has started transferring Steem to exchanges. Besides, if you fork out Steemit's stake, the next largest account is freedom. Who controls that account? This fork would benefit freedom because it will control the witnesses. It already does.

Besides, what about all those closely associated circles and early adopter accounts who benefited from upvotes and delegations?

This centralization of power in the hands of the few is on every blockchain, I'm afraid. That's one of the benefits of being an early adopter or a creator.

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The top 20 witnesses have too much power. This need to be changed.
Also, the voting rules need to be changed. If you have 1 million SP and vote for 30 witnesses, the 30 witnesses should share your 1 million SP, for example each witnesses can get 1million/30, not like it's doing now: every witness gets 1 million.

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The top 20 witnesses will never approve this change.

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Yes, I agree. And this is the reason why Steem has no future

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Oh yes it has future. The fact that you are here commenting proves this.

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Freedom is a steemit account too. Interesting thing i heard, you cannot be a top 20 witness without freedom's vote, in essence they can kill any witness they want.
It gets worse the more you know on here

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It seems that this is the system they created and community isn't able and will not be able to change it at all. If his is the case, it's better to think and do something more productive on this platform.

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Or move on to one that has a future.

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Which platform seems more hopeful to you than Steem?

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It's a good question, I'm going to do some research and do a post.

For art and interface usability creary is only in beta but already looks better on their test net:

https://steemit.com/blockchain/@creary/our-beta-test-in-now-live

However I don't know anything about their distribution, so it could be just as bad as steem as far as that goes.

In that sense I don't really have a problem if the leadership is focused on a particular product... Then at least it is run like a business. Steem just has this giant fucking leech on top of it's head.

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Thanks for letting me know about creary...

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Your welcome. If I find more I'll try to remember to tell you. I'll definitely post on my account

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Fair enough...

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I share your frustrations but I'm not in favor of such a fork.

I think we should develop this idea and keep it as our nuclear option if steemit inc doesn't perform better in the very near future.

We will need a team on stand by ready to take over the blockchain development and a good selection of witnesses willing to run the forked code.

There are challenges as the FUD may damage value for both communities and then there are all the challenges around getting the new coin listed on exchanges etc.

None of these challenges are insurmountable.

But in summary, I think we should have the forked code ready to go as a form of insurance against any abuse by the largest stake holder that damages value of all the minority stakeholders.

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  ·  5 months ago (edited)

If the power down proceeds and the stake becomes invisible there is no option. Steemit will retain de facto full control over the chain but be able to wield that power invisibly with no accountability whatsoever. Steemit's knee-jerk power down has forced a "use it or lose it" scenario. which is not exactly the ideal strategy for managing nuclear options (to borrow your metaphor).

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I think this smells of exit strategy on the part of Ned. Considering the hefty tax consecuences involved and an overwhelming focus on his personal self-interest, I doubt there would be much interest in becoming "invisible". I think it's the final exit on the original scam. Let him go. The market can absorb his share in a little over a day. BTW, by the looks of recent price action these last few days, it looks like the market sees this as a positive. Good riddance!

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Nice comment, thank you.
Much more likely is we could migrate to a fork, or an entirely new BC, set up competent DAC officers and actually create something new, based on many years of new BC innovation, not owned by any one person, and include as much of the public is interested for the next year until 2020 via airdrop.

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  ·  5 months ago (edited)

The reasons for market movements are always unclear.

I don't see any tax consequences whatsoever to making stake invisible. Moving coins from one wallet to another is not a taxable event in any tax system I know about.

The market can absorb his share in a little over a day

That is highly doubtful. Most of the volume you see on exchanges is day trading or arbitrage or even in many cases wash trading to inflate volume statistics (the latter is pretty well documented by now).

In order for the market to "absorb" selling 70 million Steem in a day there would have to be new buyers for 70 million Steem (roughly 25 million USD) on the same day. That's very unlikely.

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I don't bear any hope for StInc's "possible" improvement in future.

Let's fork Steem already!

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Hookers & Blow aren't free.

Some interesting points.

A more valuable option would be fork the source, and begin a new chain entirely.. Maybe call it something like 'motive', steem - locomotive... Idk.. Anyways... And then people who support that cause and fork can jump over there and begin posting and accumulation of tokens, etc.... This brings an option to cashout steem and use a steem > bitcoin > motive styled pairs... Or eth, or whatever have you. There could be air drops based on steem account balances but much more.... Capped. Say in the airdrops using a limit of 1000 tivcoins no matter the steem wallet balance. At the time of genesis of motive network doing something similar, but maybe capping at 2500. This allows for not a total loss, and gives people something to join this suggested fork for.
This was a stream of consciousness post while stoned, so take it for what it is. And someone that has personally invested maybe $300 into the platform at various times along the ride, and not even worried my account is worth a bit less, i love the platform...

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This was a stream of consciousness post while stoned, so take it for what it is

Probably a better process than what passes for decision making around here.

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lol

This is a good post and I only disagree on one thing.

You say that they provide no meaningful development, but I would say they provide very little development.

Yes, they are shit, but they still do some work.

Removing their stake would prevent them from working, which is bad for us. Why not instead go with this proposition from @jesta :

"Steemit Inc voluntarily giving all/majority of their tokens to an elected body which would, in return, fund Steemit Inc. This provides oversight, transparency, and accountability based on performance."

I think this would solve the problem, only reward them when they perform, and make them work harder.

I totally agree with your critique of steemit, but i wonder if nullifying an accounts' asset is a precedent you actually want to set? It quiet likely won't improve the price of steem once word gets around. And in fact what security is there left for anyone's steem if witnesses start erasing accounts at will?

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" Oh, I'd love to plant lots my money in this company, so they can take it away, at any time they feel slighted..."

Attractive proposition, uh? lol

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all this verbal diarrhea summed up in a logical and to the point conclusion, a lot of the cool people left which makes meh sad but then again I only drop in for the popcorn

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....all this verbal diarrhea

there's a lot of it going around in these parts ...hopefully it's not catching ...

And it is interesting to see, when steemit shouts, how high the T20 witnesses jump.
All this pledging going on today

This post has been included in the latest edition of SOS Daily News - a digest of all you need to know about the State of Steem.



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lol =)

trying to label Steem as a 'security' feels like a drastic thing to do.
That would have quite severe legal ramifications for steem wouldnt it?

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I don't think @steemed is the one who gets to determine what is a security, so how he labels it changes nothing. He is giving his opinion and reasoning, which exists apart from what one might like the conclusion to be. Can you find a flaw in his logic?

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Thanks for the reply @smooth
I must admit that I didnt read the whole thing very carefully and I have a severe lack of understanding regarding technical matters. I am not sure how a fork works exactly, but does it have something to with that?

I second this.

This company ninjamined something like 70% of all STEEM

And the debatable 34 millions would be just about 10-15% of all Steem.
So, the biggest part of the ninja-mine is already redistrebuted. Isn't it sort of to late to worry ?

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  ·  5 months ago (edited)

Your numbers are off here. The original stake passively increased dramatically during hyperinflation and somewhat slower thereafter. I'm told that Steemit now owns about 70 million still currently across different (known) accounts, although I haven't verified that number myself. It is somewhat over 20% of total supply and about 35% of voting stake.

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  ·  5 months ago (edited)

Yes, I guess you are right. I just wanted the OP to make some clarification about.
Edited: for me it still seem to be to late to worry.

You need to see thing without anger, they delegate to help grow DAPPS and create community out there.

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A splitfork is inevitable now for Steem

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What shall we call the splitforked Steem?

NeoSteem? Steem freedom? Steem Gold? Steem On?

I can't wait to see it!

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Steemcoin cash
Steem SV
Steem ABC

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😊

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Lol 😄

Congratulations @steemed! You received a personal award!

Happy Birthday! - You are on the Steem blockchain for 3 years!

You can view your badges on your Steem Board and compare to others on the Steem Ranking

Vote for @Steemitboard as a witness to get one more award and increased upvotes!

This selloff has represented constant sell pressure and has damaged STEEM's value for all those who own it.

Is there another reason to perform a hardfork beside the one listed above. And who else beside stinkc’s would be included.

Do you think allowing others to mine Steem might also partially fix this problem?

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Sure it would - but that's the whole problem with (delegated)"Proof of Stake" systems - a) there is no "mining," at least in the traditional sense - there are hwat's called "block PRODUCERS" (BPs) which is the task performed by nodes called "witnesses," who are the people "delegated" or voted into position.

This is why PoW is superior, imo. PoS is similar to another acronym with the same initials, imo :P But hey, it's a process. Everyone here is learning. Daniel Larimer created Steem, and then left. It has pretty much been in disarray since, imo.

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It's a damn shame. I thought there was a time when Steem could be mined though? That was before my time on the site, but I've seen people talking about it. Maybe it technically wasn't "mining"?

  ·  5 months ago (edited)

Have you maybe looked into this one:
https://steemit.com/steemit/@behindsteemit/behind-steemit-17-secret-payouts-and-steemit-bug

or maybe @steemit2, @steemit3, @val-b, @misterdelegation, @alpha, and I guess the list goes on.

And, check what @mack-botjr is doing.

Thanks for sharing!

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Hello!

I am a community manager at Snax. We are trying to make public blockchain based on EOS node. Snax chain will provide transactions over social networks, token supply based on user social influence.

Snax as well as Steemit rewards its users for the content created, but Snax works as overlay solution over existing social networks (e.g. Twitter)

We have no ICO. We already have a testnet, mainnet will be launched this month, and we currently looking for great candidates for Block Producers like yourself. You can find out more about us at our website snax.one

If our project is interesting for you, please let me know by emailing me at [email protected]

Looking forward to hearing from you, and keep rocking this world!

Forking the coin is dangerous, however, if you believe that it will help Steem then it is a reasonable position to have. Snax wants Steem to grow, and to become larger than ever before. We want to help Steem by letting people earn more money on their posts, with Snax and without leaving Steem or other socials:
https://steemit.com/steemit/@snaxteam/decentralizing-social-media-rewards-steem-and-snax-comparison

This Knight votes split-fork with SteemInc funds, funds on exchange and any wallet holding greater than 50,000 steem forfeit (similar to Telos). Then see which chain survives.

Like someone here said - a split-fork is inevitable now. So let's move fast.

SirKnight.

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