The Steemit Issues - Arguments From The Other Side - PART 1 - Censorship

in #steemit7 years ago (edited)

I have tried to get others to talk about the issue but none will. The only people that do talk about it are so full of shit their posts should be in brown. So yeah, I'm back to talk about the real issues at the risk of having my account destroyed again. Sorry i couldnt get someone better at writing to talk about it but i will try to make it at least readable.

PART 1

Censorship and the denial of free speech.

Before i even get started on this issue i want to point out the meaning of censorship.

Censorship is the suppression, obstruction or prohibition of information.


I often hear from the other side that:

"you havent been censored because your post is still in the blockchain."


Yes the blocks are still in the chain but it does not change the suppression and obstruction of the post. Just because a post is in the chain does not mean it has not been censored. If your rep is below 1 your posts do not show up in the new feed. the information contained in them has been suppressed and at the least obstructed.

"Freedom of speech does not give you the right to come into my house and start calling me an asshole."

I would like to point out to everyone in case they were not aware of the situation but Steemit is Public Area, Your post included. If i come to the post you made and called you an asshole for what you said it is the same as me calling you an asshole for saying something in public. It is nothing like walking into your house or private area and calling you an asshole. you can say what you want back but you do not have the right to censor something because you think anything you post on steemit becomes a private safe space. you do not have the right to censor something because it is in the comments of your post.

"Freedom of speech does not give you the freedom of conquence."

This is a true statement but is often used as a reason for censorship or physical violence, It is not one. Censorship is a violation of a human right and being protected from someone saying something you don't like is not. Commiting Acts of physical violence or removal of a persons human right (freespeech) as a conquence for someone using their human rights is just retarded to me and don't even understand how people can parrot that line then act like because it is a true statement that it instantly justifiys any wrong doing. That saying is about legal action people can take like not being friends with someone or avoiding them or making fun of them and stuff like that, it is not justification for violating someones human rights.

"What you said was highly offencive."

So what? What one person considers offencive another doesnt. You have a mute button and should use it. Just because you find something offencive does not give you the right to remove someones human right to post what they want. Freedom of speech is the right to offend, you do not have to listen or read it (mute button) and you do not have the right to censor what someone says.

"It was hate speech."

No it wasn't, there is no such thing as hate speech where people have the right to free speech. No one can even define this one for me. In order to be able to call something hatespeech you have to remove the right to freespeech. Hate speech is a made up vague term used for anything someone dissagrees with at whatever given moment. The person might as well say words hurt their feewlings.

"Troll/Trolling"

This is another widely vague term used for anything someone disagrees with as a reason for censorship. The simple fact is the word has been destroyed from something that actually had meaning to this stupid new move to use it as a reason for censorship or shutting down a conversation.
Vocal about disagreeing with anything?
Troll.
Post stuff i dont like?
Troll
Have a political disagreement?
troll
It is almost as if the second you get labled a troll all wrongdoings done to you are justified with one simple line, they are just a troll so they deserved it. It use to mean someone that says stuff they disagree with in order to create a dialouge but now its just used to call anyone that does or says something you disagree with. This should not be tolerated as a reason to censor someone and it is pointless to argue on when it is or isnt ok to censor someone if most people wont even admit there is censorship on this platform.

"Your post is still visabel you just have to push a button to see it so its not censorship."

Fact is when something has been flagged into negitive it does not show up in followers feeds. So it has been suppress and obstructed from your followers. Same with the new feed it never shows up there. People that want to see the post (and have shown so by following) dont see the post in their feeds. That is censorship even if you do need to push a button after finding it to read it, then another at the bottom of the post to see the pictures. Extra obstructions after the suppresion.

"Just because your comment is flagged it isnt censorship because you can click the button to view it."

If your comment gets flagged into the negitive or you have a negitive rep it does not show up in the reply feed of the person it was sent to. That is suppression and the fact you have to push a button in order to see them is obstruction. even more so the fact that the button to see them is at the verry bottom below everyones comments is another obstruction and last but not least, know what no one ever wanted to do after reading 157 comments on a post? click the button to see the flagged ones and start back up at the top of the list making them visible one by one. more obstructions to go with that suppression.


Im sure i missed a bunch and im sure i will have some in the comments reminding me that there is no censorship on steemit because...............
Change my mind and get me on your side if you can but im guessing my proof of censorship can destroy any propaganda thrown at me at this point. You cant have a free speech site and at the same time try to make reasons for censorship, and trying to say their is no censorship is either ignorance or pretending to be ignorant so you can virtue signal later to the other censorship fuck tards.

If this gets enough Comments to respond to i will make a censorship part 2 otherwise part 2 is going to be about the ?????????????.
lol

Cheers Steemit!

xD


Sort:  

This post is what I would say if I wasn't trying to be more zen on Steemit.

All so true, and when anyone says ""you haven't been censored because your post is still in the blockchain" i want to bitch slap the fucker.

The reason I don't follow you is because you bring out my worst impulses:) - but this is so true I'm just going to link to it next time some tool says any of this stuff

i have been trying to be more zen but its hard, lol

the argument that "its still in the chain" seems to be the most common in my experience.
:D

I understand i bring out the bad side of people, i tried to link this to someone that said the "its in the blockchain" speal and because i linked a post of my own they told me i was begging for upvotes and stuff. i really hate repeting myself but i have no choice according to steemit ediquette. lol

This is one of the couple posts that make me wish you could get paid out on stuff after 7 days. my solution for the censorship problem is another post i wish i could get paid out on or post to people without getting called a begger. lol but steemit life i guess.
XD

thanks for the comment and hopefully when you link people to it they will realize there is censorship. accepting that is the first step i think. till then we are just living in delusion. i personally prefer reality no matter how dirty and dark it may be.

I never thought of this like that:

If i come to the post you made and called you an asshole for what you said it is the same as me calling you an asshole for saying something in public.

I'm not against censorship but I agree with many things you said about it, I still think freedom should be restricted somehow... But the question is, who has the right and the ability to do so? who can make sure those people are safe from corruption too?

In my eyes scam comments and plagiarized posts are bigger problem... the ability for the community to censor those is required.... unless we find a better solution and a system for it?

I still think freedom should be restricted somehow...

ouch, im just in awe that you think that.

But the question is, who has the right and the ability to do so? who can make sure those people are safe from corruption too?

No one has the right to choose for everyone, people should have the choice them self. Without freespeech how will you know the censorship camp is corrupt if it is?

A question i have asked a couple people on this subject is,

"would you give me the right to choose for you what you can and cant look at on steemit?"

I hope the answer was "Fuck no!" and i dont see why i should let anyone else choose for me. I dont want a steemit mommy or daddy that tells me what i can and cant see. lol

In my eyes scam comments and plagiarized posts are bigger problem...

scam comments i do not see a problem right now, you have a mute button and a voice. What one person calls a scam another calls the best move they made in life. it is subjective. the solution to a scam is counter information or your mute button. You could use your voice to provide information on why its a scam and maybe tell others to mute the scammer. Maybe i want to read scam posts all day, who are you or anyone to tell me i dont have the right to look at that information just because you call it a scam?
as for plagiarized posts, that and child porn are the only 2 things i see acceptable to use the flag for. i have no problem if its a repost of something or a mirror as long as the the person isnt claiming its their original work and the original creator is clearly shown so it cant be mistaken. but again counter information is the answer to that or the mute if you dont want to see the copy pasta posters work.

I have never flagged anyone, there is always a better solution to the problem and free speech it the key to it. in my messed up opinion atleast.
:D

That's interesting comment:

Maybe i want to read scam posts all day, who are you or anyone to tell me i don't have the right to look at that information just because you call it a scam?

Why I think freedom should be restricted? freedom can be very toxic. Not everyone can handle it (the majority of humans are weak)... and the value of a currency like STEEM is related a lot to the value of information here.... If the majority of posts and comments aren't quality the system will become unsustainable... STEEM value will go down to zero... and this sytem will become worse than facebook.

Still, many things that get censored are sadly... things that you said... things that are very subjective and got flagged only because some whale didn't like it.

But as I said.. who gets the right to restrict the freedom?... the community as whole? then it'll become just a majority ruled website... any solution I can imagine means the elimination of "free speech" which is what your post is all about.

By the way I don't want to argue my belief... just wanted to state it... your way of seeing things
isn't bad too... I just slightly disagree...

I have never flagged anyone, there is always a better solution to the problem and free speech it the key to it. in my messed up opinion at least.

Flagging should be the final solution, where no other solution work!! And No, your opinion isn't messed up!! and you should be proud of that... while I disagree with you I know where come from.

I like how we disagree but are able to talk about it and it hasent gotten stupid. lol
I have a couple other comments i have to reply to and then i will get to yours. one other person before you that also left a really good comment that i think should get the time deserved to an answer. i hope you can understand how long im taking to reply as i want to give this conversation my full attention and till i can get all the comments before you gone i cant really do that. I will answer it just might take a little time.
Would i be able to make a post out of it or would you prefer i replied as a comment? i think its good we are having this conversation but i also think it could be good for others to see both sides of it.

Either way i will reply asap. comments after you i hope are quick ones and only one before yours that i need to spend some serious time on. so hopefully by end of the night.
thanks for your understanding and sorry for the rambling and spelling and typos.
lol

:)

I think it's better if you made a post about it...

Actually I hate arguing and I wanted to stop the conversation after my last comment (just wanted to state my reason)...

I like how we disagree but are able to talk about it and it hasent gotten stupid.

me too !!

:D
i understand sometimes i get over a conversation and just want it to end too.
:D
Hope you have a wonderful evening/day!

Before I read this post, I would have disagreed with you. You have convinced me that you are absolutely correct =O

resteemed.

No one on this platform can speak with more authority than you regarding censorship, IMHO.

Thanks!

Thank you for the resteem, it helps spread ideas into the steemosphere.
lol
see i can make up words too.
:D

Thank you for the comment too i appreicate interaction.

I'm offended.

LOL
So what?
xD

tyvm for the comment and the smile it brought me.

WHAT?
You don't CARE about my feelings?
(whimper, whimper , ...whine whine.)
You're So MEAN.
I feel micro-aggressed against...I need a safe space.

Now I need a safe space because I couldn't fathom the truth that this post has given to me :D

If a person is sending an out of context topic then I'd say he's ignorant ( but you guys associate it with a troll, Imaginative I'd say and more subtle). The term itself shows that, people hate being a straightforward jerk: they replace the word ignorant to troll.

And having to do something with emotion is really subjective but many people these days are easy to get butthurt. Now, I wonder if I earned a troll badge but hey, I'd wear it with pride.

Upvoted 100%

Thank you!
About a year ago people were talking about a badge system and a troll badge was one of them.
:D
lol

Damn safe spaces.

where can I get the badge of troll? :D well like, milo yiannopoulos he's famous and people call him the supervillain of internet lol

The guy that came up with the badge idea eventually got run off the site and a whale owned bot took his place. lol the bot does not have troll badge.
Milo is a badass, i consider him more of a superhero then a villian.

Couldn't agree more with you about milo :) I fancy supervillain more than a hero and call me crazy, I don't mind. Cheers!

LOL
ok you are right hero is the worng word and idk if i could say he is my hero so, yeah.

ps
you are crazy.
:D
we all are though. lol

Haha.. liked this conversation. I agree that sometimes a villain is more interesting than a hero.

i dont really want to call him a villain but i cant really say he is someone i would call a hero. he is a badass and just like everyone i disagree with some of the stuff he says but for half the shit he gets and the fact that he wants to talk about the actual things that matter in the current yime and place i guive him mad props on. pluss he is funny so its very easy to enjoy his speaches. im not a fag though so when he does the bitchie thing of talking bad about peoples style of how people look and stuff im like whatever. lol
If someone wants green hair and tattos and peircings that is their choice. besides that i enjoy his content and alot of what he stands for and says.
At the same time ive been called a nazi on steemit for it. lol

Steemit life
:D

Ok, I'll actually agree with you.

Steemit.com, the front end interface, has censorship.
Steem, the blockchain, does not have censorship.

The solution I would propose is:
let's use a different front end interface that doesn't censor.

Options would be busy.org, chainBB, and some other lesser known ones.

Eventually we will have a local client that you will have full control over.

Im hoping, i have strayed away from making anymore accounts of stuff having to do with steemit cause they end up stuff i never log into more then the first time.

Full control and access to all information would be nice.
:D

Excellent post @skeptic! I recently had an experience on this site that very much aligns with the issues you bring up. There is a user with a lot of power who decided it was his prerogative to use his SteemPower as an Iron Fist against anyone who disagreed with his statements on his blog, or even mentioned his name in another blog if he didn't like what they said.

Fact is, it doesn't matter if what was said is true, false, agree, disagree, or whatever.....like you said, he's got a mute button. He knocked me down to level 6 for calling him out on ripping off someone else's catch phrase. Sure, he has the right to do it, and I have the right to let him know that we know he's doing it, and we think it's lame. Sure enough, within an hour, I lost everything I had built over about 4 months. I tried taking a step back and reasoning with the guy, but he just kept flagging.

I was truly, truly disappointed in the Steemit system. In fact, I started doing my work here behind the scenes, seeing as I could barely post, and certainly not post any pictures.

Well, eventually someone else mentioned that "someone" was doing the things I mentioned above in their post, never even mentioning his user name. No one asked him to come and out himself as the one being spoken about, he chose to out himself. By doing so, something amazing happened. He started threatening others, by saying he will do the same to them. I just kept pointing out how much of an asshole bully he was, and he kept insisting he was a nice guy all the while threatening anyone and everyone who challenged what he said. My account was ruined, what did I have to lose?

This is the amazing part....the community stepped up. A few friends on here backed me up, and one went to a large group forum and told the story to them. Within two days, he backed the fuck off, as a bunch of other people with the same power as him told him he was being a dick and using his power in the worst way possible. Not only that, but they all went through and upvoted everything I did to get me back to the level I'm at now.

I have to admit, I almost quit this thing because of that moron. I figured this place is just like everywhere else....money rules over everything....but that actually didn't turn out to be the case. Many people stepped up and were willing to have their accounts ruined also to fight the bully. My faith in the community was revived, as was my account.

No one told him to stop saying what he was saying, they just said "Listen up buddy, we see what you're doing, censoring people and threatening people, and ruining their accounts....and well, we will gladly do the same to you if you think that's how steempower should be used"

Point being, I completely agree. I just wanted to share that with you, and encourage you to keep your head up, and fight the good fight. I dealt with a worthless account for quite a while before justice came around, but it did in the end. Sure enough, that guy isn't flagging people into oblivion anymore.

Any small group is going to have their own standards for what they believe is their "territory" if you will, and yes sometimes you get smashed for being real with someone, but don't let it ruin your experience here. I know first hand that getting the word out like you are doing is the best remedy for those assholes. Good on you brother.

im sorry to hear you ran into randowhale aka berniesanders aka nextgencryptoi on and on with his alt accounts. Im just guessing it was him as 90% of the people me included are dealing with or have had to deal with him doing just that. My first expierence dealing with it was alot like yours was, the second and third time not so much...... it got to the point where peoiple were saying it was my fault because i wouldnt stop talking about what he was doing or kept saying his name. it really upset me and fucked with my brain. it still fucks with me tbh. what worries me is that flagging his account doesnt really do anything to him and if i am honest i dont think he should have been flagged either. flagging only one of his accounts is pointless and truth is he should have his voice just like everyone else. but having a voice and censoring others and stuff like that is where i have a problem.
Thank you for your story as there are many of us that deal with it and alot are to scared to talk about it because if they do they get smacked down more. Im glad you have stuck around, i almost quit at one point too, came back after not touching steemit for 2 months and he was right there to flag me instantly. but it drove me to be where im at now so its whatever.
The more we talk about it and spread the information the sooner something will be done to be able to stop the censorship.
Thanks again for the awesome comment and words!

I know who you're talking about, I have a list of all his alt names.....believe it or not, it wasn't him. It was just another asshole who has no regard for an open discussion with someone who disagrees with him. But ya know....they don't have freedom of speech everywhere in the world, and without pointing out his country, I'm not surprised he acted that way, they're known to be cowards when the boots hit the ground. That's not a true assessment of all those from there of course, but he sure did propel the stereotype into reality.

I looked it was kyle the cocain and hookers guy. lol
all the popple doing this are all freinds and been doing this crap from the begining. It is true that not everywhere has freedom of speech and not everyone thinks we should have it. tripps me out though. lol
i like the way you put it, was alot nicer then the way i end up saying stuff.
Hopefully he went away and hasent gotten you to self censor. it sux when they go that far.
hope the flagging has stopped and that enough people start talking about it to where something gets done about it.

I don't self censor, but I'm on a mission here. And to help that mission, it is prudent to not bring up the past by mentioning names and calling them out again. It's been settled. Haha.....trust me, I get plenty of haters due to me being uncensored! I did notice their huge ring of people, and took all their names down to know who I'm dealing with.

lol
:D
well im glad its over with, getting flaggedby a whale always sucks

Censorship of human thoughts and free rein on bots doing the censoring, a very bad combination.

The whole thing is a fucked up paradox to me to be honest. lol
The bots are only doing what their creators made them to do so the bots are kind of a symptom of the problem not so much of a cause for it. IMO atleast.
the censorship is a huge issue to me though, bot enforced or human enforced i have a problem with it. With the ability to provide positive and negetive reinforcement and incentive on a social media platform in the way of money (a better life) we have created a situation wher the obidediant and submissive get rewarded when they sit and shake hands like their master whale tells them and on the other side the beaten and starved because they told the whale they should be able to choose when they sit and arent a pet but an actual individual creating original content and dont really appreaciate having someone that is not a content creator come in and try to tell everyone how they need to do their art.
Sorry for the rant. i do agree we are in a combination of shit stew and puke blood bath.
lol

You had me until "offencive" and "visabel". My 10th grade English teacher would have censored the crap out of those errors.

Your 10th grade teacher sounds like a kunt to me.
xD
I will go back and correct them. thanx 4 tha input!

I think your 10th grade english teacher should also censored the covfefee, Honered, Attaker and list goes on.Twitter should've hired your teacher.

wow nice...

please follow or vote back...

Thank you but you did not upvote or follow so it is impossible for me to do a follow for follow.
go waste someone else's time with your fake scam follow for follow bot garbage.
:/

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