Voting Allocations Have Been Upgraded! [Critical Update]
As we began discussing the idea of our own Shadow Token last week, @alphacore raised some really good points.
From all of this, we have implemented a big change to how we calculate up vote strength for each Caster.
The old system
We simply took your Shadow Rank and divided it by the Shadow Divider. So someone at a 25 Shadow Ranks with the current Shadow Diver being 5 gave them 5% up vote strength from other Casters on their posts (assuming they are over the Fractional Voting Level).
Why this system is not ideal
This system worked for a while and helped us grow together faster, but as we are expanding it no longer is operating on the principles and fairness ShadowBot was founded on! Consider this:
Two new members join ShadowBot, one who has just 18 Steem Power and another who has 25,000 Steem Power. Should both be treated equally? Tricky question, since we aim to balance good content while also being fair to the person with thousands more SP; they should get something for it, especially in the beginning since Powering Up is a commitment to Steem itself!
Having a lot of SP means you either worked hard and built it up and/or invested your money in, either way you put your hard earned capital into steem and should have some reward for it!
The new system
Our new system incorporates your Steem Power along with your Shadow Rank to more fairly allocate voting power across all members! We take your Shadow Rank and your Steem Power together to determine a much fairer up vote strength for each Caster.
Now a new member with just 25 Steem Power will get about 0.1% per post, where as a new member with 12,000 Steem Power would receive 4.9% up vote strength per post. The old model would have given both exactly the same amount. See Examples of Voting Allocations Here.
Will this effect how Shadow Rank is calculated?
NO! We did not make a single change to how Shadow Rank is calculated! That is the beauty of this system. We simply changed how we calculated the strength a given post would get from another Caster! Your ability to earn Shadow Rank is still exactly the same as it always has been!
The geek part
The old equation:
Voting Power Strength = ShadowRank / ShadowDivider
The new equation:
Voting Power Strength = ( ( ShadowRank + (SteemPower / (FractionalVotingLevel / ShadowDivider) ) ) / 2) / ShadowDivider
You can use the following python code to replicate the math/algorithm we are using now:
SHADOW_DIVIDER = 5
FRACTIONAL_VOTING_LEVEL = 1250
FVLSD = FRACTIONAL_VOTING_LEVEL/SHADOW_DIVIDERshadow_rank = 99
steem_power = 9862vote = round( ( ( ( shadow_rank + (steem_power/FVLSD) ) / 2 ) / SHADOW_DIVIDER), 1)
print (vote)
Thanks again!
Thanks again everyone, especially @alphacore for being part of this process! Be sure to check out our latest contest: https://steemit.com/contest/@shadowbot/new-years-eve-contest-2x-5-sbd-prizes
For more information on ShadowBot:
Latest Release: https://steemit.com/steemit/@shadowbot/shadowbot-100-days-on-steemit-welcome-to-tartarus-shadowbot
Explaining the system: https://steemit.com/steemit/@shadowbot/explaining-the-shadowbot-system
FAQ: https://shadowbot.us/shadowbot/faq.php
Signup: https://shadowbot.us/shadowbot/signup.php
Update
Corrected algorithm for webview and added image
Added source code
Added Example Voting Allocation
I just want to point out to anyone reading that currently has low SP this is also good for you, because it means the people that have larger votes are more likely to stay in the pool meaning the total SP of the pool will probably increase more over time and any disadvantage you have now will balance against the increasing power of shadow casters in general. Worrying too much about immediate benefits at the cost of high SP accounts leaving the pool is not good in the long run, because having a higher percentage of a lower pool size is not actually an advantage regardless of what immediate effects you see. This kind of scenario can be deceptive because people with high SP leaving the pool is not something you ever noticed before, right? When someone joined with 1000SP, stayed for a week or two and left, did you even consider it? Or do you focus more on how many votes your post got from shadow casters rather than who is no longer voting at all.
The thing is, there have been 1500+ signups but there are only about 900 shadow casters, which shows that many people leave after some time. I am willing to bet the people with most SP are the ones most critical of any problems they happen to find and most likely to leave if they feel like it's not worth their voting, so if this change alters the rate of high SP holders leaving the pool then everyone will grow more because of it, except that will not be immediately seen because it's something that happens over time.
This kind of change takes time to have a real impact, but I predict it results in higher overall power in the pool from better retention for people that already have SP, better incentive for people that have SP to join in the first place, and more people that already joined wanting to power up. This is a step in the right direction.
Exactly this was brought up multiple times specifically by @alphacore. Our goal is BALANCE. FAIR! If you have 15 SP and expect $2 from ShadowBot first day you better be dreaming! But if you re-invest all your earnings and grow to 1500 SP in a few months, ShadowBot takes notice and rewards you more and more. With this new metric in place, it allows the bigger fish to come in and earn while still letting the smaller minnows get some boost. Remember EVEN if you do not earn a single vote your Shadow Rank can go up and your Steem Power going up even just organically will boost you OVER TIME to the front of the pack! Those who you see earning a lot on ShadowBot have worked hard to get there and provide valuable long term commitment and content to the steem community !
I agree its a good step towards those who have got high sp
But it's one step backward to minnows. Most of people with low sp dont have any other support than shadow bot.
Lets see, how it goes.. its seem the best solution for right now
Happy with the shadowbot though as its open to our suggestions and ready to make change for better
https://steemit.com/steemit/@shadowbot/minnow-booster-day-being-introduced-sunday-minnow-day
We can only get better if everyone contributes their feedback both good and bad! This project is a group effort, we just "lay the bricks". The more we get in feedback the more we know what is and is not working! We have gone through many iterations to get to here and we would be naive to say we have it perfect! We know there are always things to fix and that is why we need the feedback you all provide! The more crucial you are to the system, the faster we can identify problems we may just be over looking. This system is rather complex and has a few working parts already that it gets time consuming to inspect every last account. We rely on the feedback to ensure everyone's concerns are met. That is why we implemented Minnow Booster Sunday! https://steemit.com/steemit/@shadowbot/minnow-booster-day-being-introduced-sunday-minnow-day
Hi, I'm going to translate this post, I hope you don't mind.
But why did I get 43.8% of grandpa whale (please don't take it off?)?
The new system does not suit me because they no longer favour minnows. I understand that people have invested their money, but they do not need shadowbot. The "rich" will win and the "poor" will lose.
so its time to leave as minnow? @zonguin :(
No, persevere does not leave. We are precursors. Even if we only have a few steem, we'll still be recognized as the first ones, and when the steem is $100, we'll be a winner. persevere, product of quality. Shadowbot will no longer be indispensable to you
I didnt get you fully..but as long as I am getting upvotes on my each posts on a regular basis like past(which I am not getting) I dont mind.
If you look at how the equation works Shadow Rank and Steem Power both matter. The longer you are a GOOD steemian AND part of ShadowBot the more Shadow Rank grows. As you are a good steemian your Steem Power grows too! See how the system works? IF you are being a good steemian, even as a minnow you will see you Shadow Rank AND Steem Power GROW! This will increase your earnings faster and faster as time goes by! Our system is designed to be fair, weed out spammers/abusers, and ultimately keep to the principles of steem's whitepaper, promote GOOD authors and GOOD content!
https://steemit.com/steemit/@shadowbot/minnow-booster-day-being-introduced-sunday-minnow-day
The 43.8% up vote was an initial beta test roll out on a single node that contained a bug that used the caster's SP not the author's SP to calculate the %. This was fixed immediately and the public roll out does not contain this bug! Only about 12 posts were effected by this bug.
@zonguin you should really consider how this update also is inline with the new voting policy implemented: https://steemit.com/steemit/@shadowbot/minnow-booster-day-being-introduced-sunday-minnow-day
What to consider the fractional voting level in the equation ?
and it is fractionalvotinglevel / shadowdivider or fvl*sd ( as seen in the pic) ?
You can use the following python code to replicate the math/algorithm we are using now:
Thanks for clearing the doubt
for others who want to calculate vote, can use online python ide
Just copy paste the code and input your shadow rank and steem power
https://www.jdoodle.com/python-programming-online
Good call didn't even think of an online python ide/runtime! The code is simple enough it requires 0 imports it should run ANYWHERE!
Check out the allocations here: https://shadowbot.us/shadowbot/voting.dec.31.2017.php
How to join shadow bot?
Simply go to the login page and use your username and private posting key (you can get that from your wallet in steemit): https://shadowbot.us/shadowbot/login.php
Fractional Voting Level (FVL) and Shadow Divider (SD) are both defined and always available on our FAQ. FvLSD is a ratio of FVL/SD simply makes the math easier to read. FVL is currently 1250 SP and SD is currently set at 5.
Didnt get any upvote for about 1 week...will you look at that?
Yes this should address these issues, https://shadowbot.us/shadowbot/voting.dec.31.2017.php
So I get 1.5% vote now? But when?Its been 1 week already...:/ Before I used to get upvote on every post..but now that is changed,isnt it?
The longer you are a member and the better you perform on steemit the more you will see your posts prioritized in the Shadow Pool. Our adjustment we made in regards to this post simply determines how much your post can earn when it is in line for voting. We are constantly adjusting levels and metrics to ensure everyone earns fairly. Always make sure to inform us and don't think we are not working hard to balance things! We are committed to making a fair system for all! As you can imagine the only way we make a better system is feedback from people like you! Look back at our track record is all I can say. Every member who sticks with the program sees growth and is part of this community! We are "learning and earning together" as we like to say!
ok lets see what happens... :)
Wait till a few months from now when you are praising ShadowBot! We have @shadowchat coming online this month! Big things are happening! You will have a huge ability to earn a lot more with our community and being part of the feedback in it's development only helps more to see it grow faster and better and more fairly for everyone!
I see..but how often I well get that 1.5% vote? that part isnt clear to me.. :/
It isn't a precise date/time you get up votes, it is an over time process that you grow with us all and earn more and more. We are working out a way to calculate exactly when and how much each member will earn which will allow us to further allocate votes more fairly.
Let me explain somethink i encounter on shadowbot, and why it isn't a pool as intend to be. If you check a casters posts you will see that shadowbot caster have as much upvotes as users in pool, but if you check some low level pool casters upvotes you will realize that they have drastical less upvotes. I was able to reach level 30 there and reset my account. As long and casters didnt vote between each other with simillar count i didn't think this will be fair pool. Dont feel offenced but can you explain one minnow why he'd spend his VP to you? Before my gain/contribution was 5/1 now is 1/5 . Guys there are ppl that are not good autors.If they were they didnt write here and probably they will sell theyer work. So don't be naive to think yourself for next Shekspear or Poe. The true is that here i see a bunch of content but less quality. The ideas behind the cryptos for a normal users is equality. Thats why this world shoudn't change . When all is not distributed equal. I am on steemit from 7 months.I see lvl -1 user with overall SP about 10k. Is that normal? No. Other problem is so called whales trading . Some whales dump markets pump markets. Delegate part of theyer SP for gain. They didn't give a fuck about how greate some content is. What do you think is this a problem? And let me as one more question: I have 300 Steem Power 50 of them are my $ investment. To withdraw all of them i need 13 weeks.Can you guaranteed me that after 13 weeks Some whale should not dump a price to 0.10 USD per steem? No. Remember the most precios think on this planet is time - we as a human kinds didn't have eternity to be a perfect autors. The most perfect autor is no one but the Life.
Shadowbot is not working on this account even my rank is 16 can any one explain for me why shadowbot is not upvoting my posts ? @shadowbot
If you look at how the equation works Shadow Rank and Steem Power both matter. The longer you are a GOOD steemian AND part of ShadowBot the more Shadow Rank grows. As you are a good steemian your Steem Power grows too! See how the system works? IF you are being a good steemian, even as a minnow you will see you Shadow Rank AND Steem Power GROW! This will increase your earnings faster and faster as time goes by! Our system is designed to be fair, weed out spammers/abusers, and ultimately keep to the principles of steem's whitepaper, promote GOOD authors and GOOD content!
@shadowbot ,thank you for responding ! But, i'm not seeing any solution here.so let me be more clear, how much shadow rank and steem power should be at least ,that shadowbot begin working ?
Everyone part of the system who contributes will always earn back more. All you need to do is ensure you create good content over time and as the system grows you will grow with it! Take a look at our new voting policy: https://steemit.com/steemit/@shadowbot/minnow-booster-day-being-introduced-sunday-minnow-day
I don't think this is true. Here is one example. I have 500 000 in my bank . decide to invest them in the steemit.com . I wrote a post and upvote it. After reward come i sell SBD reward to power up my account. Believe me i will reach lvl 50 on shadowbot much faster than good autor with 27SP. With uupvoting my most with highter 100 percent power. When i click upvote that post will go to trending couse of SP getting on it.
Whats the idea behind pool. Lest say pool have 100 casters with diff SP and levels. Lets say each day every one caster recieve upvotes from 20 other casters and give his own vote for 20 other casters. This should be the most effective system how the pool should work. Believe me the most proffit i've made from minnowbooster just buy invest SBD rewarded for paying upvotes from there. Last time i check they have almost 500 000 users. Some of them sellers other investors. Shadowbot have at max 900 . Where is the diffs? I will let you to think.
Minnowbooster requires payments, which we do not, so comparing our system to theirs is comparing apples to oranges. Allocating votes the way you describe is simply vote trading, not the system we have envisioned. The highest ID (which would also be the total number of steemit accounts) is 546,268 so unless you believe 500,000 of 546,268 are part of minnowbooster you have your math WAY off: Latest account created: https://steemd.com/@kcc06159 (id: 546,268) TX: https://steemd.com/tx/3f4c4da9b7feba5f5f3a3ae0b7c9cd0b07efa3f6
I didn't mind to force you to develop a trading system. I write only for exchanging upvotes between pool members in more fluid way. In method i mention the pool rewarding will grow more exponential . After some time users in the pool will be equal, and the shadowbot rewarding system, wich is distributed by pool members will be more equal. So the minnows there will grow more faster and whales less.This is my sentence for working in team. Ppl need to know if they have a chanse for growing, not only to give theyer vote for whales. For instance after brand my new account on shadowbot I recieve only 1 upvote worth 0.03 defore splitting on each my post. This i can recieve with only upvoting them from myself.
if accounts with 15SP got the same votes as whales the whales would just leave and people could spark up 20 alt accounts to farm the pool with junk posts of videos and pictures they didn't make (sound familiar?) instead of trying to grow their SP to make the pool itself more powerful they could get rewards without increasing in power. To some extent that is ok for people that are committed and creating nice content, but nothing good would come from oversimplification of something that is inherently complex. This isn't vote trading, but if it were then the largest accounts in terms of SP would be getting even more than they already are, so you are just contradicting yourself in an attempt to make a point sounding as if the people with less SP should always gain more than anyone else, but if that were true the average SP of shadow casters would decline because people in large groups act in a form of optimization. It is not a long term or pool-centric plan to try turning the voting of the pool into some homogeneous circle jerk where everyone equalizes over time - there has to be some advanced system that prevents abuse and awards commitment while still managing to bring incentive for things that increase the power of the pool overall, like creating good content and gaining more steem power.
You want to make analogy to minnowbooster selling votes then just think: who makes the money selling votes? It is the people with the most SP making the most from that, and such a simple fact means the total SP of vote sellers has an uplift because they all want more SP to get more returns. If instead you have everyone paid the same amount for selling votes then why even bother getting more SP? You bring up things to contradict yourself while being critical of something, it isn't a great argument, sorry.
Do oyu know how many worth upvote you gave to me several hour ago? Only upvote i recieve for past 2 days from shadowbot? Let me answer : less than half i gave you. If you read preview my replyes you will see a teoretic vision about pool grow. Not selling just exchanging. I am pretty sure btw that you know how exactly think whales. They play with coution.Trade theyer gain or wait SBD reach 100 USD . But do you know how they become whales. Should be interesting to know what ppl they are . I have little suspection about whales ability to write or produce any "Quallity" content. Not to mention that most of them are raw investors or a ppl used to enter platform in close circle for fist coin distributions. So before you try to change my minds or try to change my vision i can tell you FAREWELL. I think staying in SB is no more than loss ot time i'm limited in. In steemit i meet wonderfull ppl that make this platfor social one. Social as its intend to be.
@alphacore Couldn't have said it better myself!
I’m also curious about how the voting system works. I joined about a week or so ago and haven’t seen a single vote from any caster on any of my posts. I have however seen my VP drop dramatically as a result of all the votes I have been casting. Would you be able to clarify at what point it will actually start to work for my posts?
Hi dexter, I might be able to help.
see here https://shadowbot.us/shadowbot/dashboard.php?shadow_id=1417
that is your shadow caster page, on the left side is your posts and there is a column "shadow reward" that is a tally of the shadow caster votes onto each of your posts. This part shows the total you gained for each post but not the details, but there is a way to see that also.
You can click the post link it shows for each post in your list to get a view like this: https://shadowbot.us/shadowbot/post.php?post_id=19677856 - this is a list of tracked votes from shadow casters for one of your posts. Names of people voting on you from here have a tendency to blend in to the normal voting happening on your account, so it's a little bit sneaky and these tools end up being the best way I know to get an approximation.
Anyway, I hope that helps ^_^
We are working on the next update really helping fully identify everything that is going on between ShadowBot and Steemit!
ShadowBot attempts to manage your VP but if you vote too often manually you are forced to up vote every 5 hours if your VP does not reach 100% before that time and uses ~2% each time. Ideally this leaves about 6% for each user to use manually (3x 100% up votes) per day and still fully recharge each voting session.
Ok, I think I understand what's going on here. Because my shadow rank is still quite low from joining quite recently, I'm quite far back in the shadow queue which means that my posts get voted on literally days after they were posted. I still get the votes, but it takes quite a while to get around to me. Am I off base on that? I think I'm understanding it :)
That is how the system works, it is an anti-abuse mechanism AND a way to ensure those who stick with ShadowBot and do well get more and more priority in the pool. We have just implemented Minnow Booster Sunday which will help all the minnows really get up in this system! https://steemit.com/steemit/@shadowbot/minnow-booster-day-being-introduced-sunday-minnow-day
Also, expiration date is important, first the Shadow Pool is weighted by your Shadow Rank but it is then re-weighted by expiration of the post. So Shadow Rank is more important but if you are the same rank as another member but your post was created more recently their post will have priority simply because it has less time left before it expires (again trying to balance fairness).
What is the best way to contact you? I have questions beyond FAQ.
Thanks
ShadowChat will be the best way once it is fully online next week.
This is an advanced update, so nice. But I recently found a problem with my upvote calculation, during the formula, I should be getting 3.9% upvote which I was getting it since yesterday, but today I got like 3.3% upvote not sure why, I also calculated from the formula above and got 3.9% upvote. My rank is (38) my SP is (238). Thanks.
Shadow Divider was bumped up to account for everything from 5 to 6. You can always check the FVL and SD in our FAQ and we will be adding them to the dashboard for everyone to see easily.
Awesome, that will help a lot, thanks for your reply :)
We really try to avoid adjusting the SD or FVL they are basically bail outs to ensure everyone gets more fairly. We prefer to spread the votes through rules like our new Minnow Booster Sunday policy! https://steemit.com/steemit/@shadowbot/minnow-booster-day-being-introduced-sunday-minnow-day
Why are you not showing whose taking my votes..and I think your taking 2 to 3 votes per day that is also 100%.show us our current upvotes