My Response to dantheman's downvoting campaign against mesteemCreated with Sketch.

in #steemit8 years ago

Hello everyone!

I initially didn't want to join this whole fiasco, i wanted to remain silent, but since I got called out by Dan (@dantheman and @dan) himself I decided to write a reply afterall.

First let me say that I didn't react to the flags and trolls (not referring to @dantheman here) is cos I simply think it's a waste of time arguing.

But due to the respect I have towards @dantheman as a developer, member of the overall crypto community and a person who actually took time and wrote a post without the offensive language and insults like the others, I felt it is only the right move to write an equal response without insults.

So, I will start by describing what I did on Steemit and why. Then move onward to comment and respond to the post "Why I Flag ozchartart"(https://steemit.com/steemit/@dantheman/why-i-flag-ozchartart) by @dantheman and finally conclude the post, and hopefully the whole scene, that was made here, with my opinion and a word on the future of ozchartart.



What I did on Steemit and why?


As I started this account my initial thought was not to do daily updates on STEEM and BTS, rather post charts for different altcoins, based on a longer term view.

Back at that time STEEM was still pretty high in price, and as I posted my first chart, it was a STEEM chart, I got asked to start posting updates on a daily basis, so I started doing it.

Realizing that the price of STEEM is high and that the rewards are high, I decided to post altcoin charts only occasionally next to the STEEM update.

In fact there were periods of over 20 days that I only posted the STEEM update.

And this is what it looked like all the way till late November, I kept posting 1 chart per day, the STEEM update that the community asked me to start doing, occasionally an altcoin chart. ( I will post additional screen shots in the comment section).
Along the way the only posts of mine which were downvoted by a whale (in this case not Dan but Ned), were the altcoin charts i posted, not the STEEM ones, so that sent me a clear message.

As time was going on and the STEEM price was falling together with the author rewards, at the end of November when the STEEM price was near it's all time low, at 14k satoshi, I saw the chance to start posting some altcoin charts again, and at that time got asked by @officialfuzzy , the community leader of Bitshares, to start posting daily updates on BTS, starting with the first one on November 22.

It was all going pretty much as usual, occasionally some flags, but everything seemed to be ok.
At this time, as I started posting more charts on a daily basis, and as they were upvoted constantly I began climbing on the weekly authors leaderboard, landing in the top 10 about mid December and recently hit the number 1 spot on it, something I never thought I would see.

At this point I started getting attention from @fyrstikken and some other members of this community, constantly downvoting my posts, and trying to provoke me in the comments, by calling me a dick, my charts bullshit and else.


All that started 19 days ago, and all of my posts have been flagged since, with @dantheman joining 16 days ago and is still going on today.


Throughout the whole time, I never complained about the flagging of my posts. Not even one single time, in fact I publicly stated that I don't care if I get flagged.



Why I did it how I did it?


So as said, initially my idea was to posts charts on different altcoins, preferring to go for the long time view, because that is what I believe to be the most profitable way of trading crypto.

As I got asked by the community of Steemit to start doing daily updates on the STEEM price, I decided to do it.
As I was aware that payouts were really high at that point, I decided to not post more then 1 chart a day, occasionally another on an altcoin I saw being ready for a move ( whats the use of it if I post it after it has already made the move which I was anticipating?), being fully aware of the possible impact if I started posting more, not on me but on the other authors on the platform.

As time progressed and STEEM hit it's all time low level I started posting more altcoin charts again.
At that time I got a request from @officialfuzzy to start doing BTS updates.
With a few days of thinking and asking about opinion from different sides on the matter if that might be too much, I decided to start those as well.
Shortly after I was even asked to start doing daily updates on Iconomi, which I declined, exactly cos I thought I was already doing allot.

I have to mention that I wasn't posting altcoin charts each day, sure there were days where I would post both updates and another altcoin chart per day, but it was still mostly only the updates.

Community members were also asking me for allot of these charts, so many of them are made, only for the reason of the Steemit community requesting them.

At this point I started taking (obviously) a larger portion of the author reward pool and was fully aware of that fact.
But at the same time the 2-3 posts I did per day were providing way less rewards then any post back in the days, the votes were giving significantly more rewards then today.
This was the reason why I decided to post more altcoin charts now, while the price is low and upvotes are worth far less then when the price is high.

Fully aware of the fact that I am draining more from the authors reward pool now, but as mentioned in terms of dollars it is way less, and I believe it was a good decision from me to keep the posting 1 post per day while the price of STEEM was high, to let more authors get a stake when the posting is worth allot, and start posting more now, while the STEEM price is low and post get way less rewards.

I watched many authors "milk it", posting numerous times a day while the price was high, yet i kept off from doing the same.



What I could have done?


With all honesty, I could have been posting more charts back when the STEEM price was high and the posts were worth a magnitude more then today, keep in mind that at today's price I would probably need about 7 days of posting (or more) of 3 posts per day, without any flags in order to match only 1 post from back in the summer.


Summer


recently

I could have milked it out, take the money once I did and leave like many authors did, yet I decided not to let my greed take over at the most important stage, when Steemit was new and needed new users, all of them earning money to get attracted.



Why is there so much copy paste and why do all the posts look so similar?


So, this goes for the updates of STEEM and BTS, I am doing a daily update on both of them, which means I want to show how It looked the previous day (the copied charts) and what It developed into the time of posting, same goes for the volume.

About the charts in the updates, why do I keep my lines on there and don't delete them?
Very simple, because the line are important! They mark where the coin made a certain movement on the chart, and that wont go away, it has happened, therefor it stays there, no one can undo it.
The lines are there and serve to help future price discovery and they are important be they 1 day old or 3 years old, it doesn't matter.

Altcoin charts, they are similar, yes they are, very! All of which I chose to post personally (not by request).
But for a good reason, If you look a bit closer you will notice that they all have similar price movement in the history.

Those are the markets that I believe have the most promising potential for profit. And that's why I will point them out, not after they start going up, but before they do.



A read and reply to the "Why I Flag ozchartart" post by @dantheman


Starting of with the first paragraph and picture:

First a comment on the picture, I don't remember expressing any rage or anger about the flags of @dantheman, @dan, @ned, or for that matter any other flag that was every put on any of my posts.

Second, the sentence which caught my eye is this one, and I in fact am not gonna comment on it, but rather ask a question to @dantheman , @dan.

" I originally started flagging with only one of my two accounts, but the persistence of other collusive whales in up-voting this content has forced me to express myself more firmly"

Please don't understand me wrong, hence this is just a question, but how I understand is that you started flagging my posts in order to get attention of the whales, expressed your personal opinion on the posts so to say,


as you state here

and then expected them to follow your opinion, aka stop upvoting my posts, and once they ignored your personal opinion, they probably have a different one then you, you started downvoting the posts with another account of yours to further express your personal opinion in hope to get their attention. After they didn't change their opinion even after that, you didn't stop, rather you continued to try enforce your personal opinion upon other members of the platform?


Going on, second paragraph:

Yes I was the top author for 1 month! I am very very proud of that! I even took a screenshot of that rare occasion!
There were, there still are at the moment, authors who make way more money on their posts, who also get constantly upvoted by big whales, including you, @dantheman and @ned.
Furthermore, if I wasn't the top author of the month, it would have been another author who is a regular poster and gets upvoted by whales.
But as I clearly stated and analyzed in my posting history above, the part about me posting 3-4 posts every single day is a false accusation without evidence, or your "statistics" have some big flaws. And yes the top monthly author will always earn more then any other blogger that month, that shouldn't be a surprise, whomever it might be on the #1 out there.

Gonna drop in a replica here,
But have I really earned more then any blogger out there, in the whole history of Steemit?
Lets take a look at the top 25 people in posting rewards! For the help I will use the http://steemwhales.com/?p=1&s=pr page!

So, @ozchartart, #9 there, posting every single day, so a daily blogger u can say, apart from me there are just a couple that have been posting on the daily basis, respect keep it up btw! That's what a real user is!

Apart from the daily posters there are people who have mostly posted while the rewards are high and have stopped since, or do so only occasionally, nothing wrong with that.

@dantheman being #12 on the list you have a posting reward of 103,409,025! Despite declining rewards for the past 2 months! One of the founders! Caring founder, you like your own platform, that's for sure, nothing wrong with that, but as a founder you are the #12 person with the most posting rewards, and that has had an large impact in the author reward pool, furthermore you have upvoted you'r own posts, which isn't a big deal, everyone does that, but you are one of the biggest whales, and a user in the top 25 posting rewards, who has by far the most SP on there, nearly 2.5 million with the next closest to you from that list having about 300k SP!
On top of that, your other account, @dan, has a posting reward of 44,617,340 and 4.7 million SP and is ranked #47

On both accounts combined, you have 148,026,365 posting rewards, which would put you alltogether on the #6 just 200,000 lower then #5.
That means u haven taken a great chunk of the reward pool which has had a big impact on the distribution of the rewards to the other users on the platform, and ultimately means that I have not earned more on posting then you, in fact you have earned 11.74% more then me


Going on:

Here I would like to point out:
"The problem I have with @ozchartart is that he has been producing the same content for almost 6 months and prior to my flagging attempts was pulling in more money each month than anyone else."

And again, it is a assumption based on no evidence or lack of knowledge on the market analysis field, that I produced the same content for almost 6 months, and that I was earning more then every other Steemit user each month is just absurd, as I have pointed out and provided evidence above, that not even near as true, in fact @dantheman, you earned about 12% more money through posting then I did, who posts on a daily basis.


Now to the next:

The sad fact is that any post could be automated, which I think was a discussion topic in the past, and the fact that you personally don't know what you are looking at when you take a look at my charts, is not my problem, if you wish I am free and open to explain how I do it, if you have questions, never hesitate to reach out to me!

Do I automate my posts? No I don't it takes me a reasonable amount of time to edit the updates, and to be able to say what I expect next, I don't write just anything that comes to my mind, I take a look at the chart, and then write where I think it will go next. I write it up in as short sentences as I can and in as "English" as I can, because I know many people are not experienced with the technical terms and would not be able to follow at all what I am writing about.


Next paragraph:

As you said, this is your humble opinion, although I do have a lot of opinions about allot of posts out there, I do not flag them, for the soul reason that the flagging was introduced to counter trolling and hate speech, fraud and plagiarism and spam.


and the next one:

Personally I know for a fact, since some people have reached out to me and thanked me for the charts that I provided and for the money they made thank to them, that my post do offer some value to other people.

Some of the screenshot of the trades that some people sent me back in the days, which they made based on my charts:




The value of my post is depends, If it turns out that I gave a good tip on buying or selling an altcoin, the information could potentially be worth 100's of thousands, either by making profit by entering when the price is low and exiting when the price is high, or by exiting the market before a heavy dump, in which case my post would save money, not generate it.

Furthermore, you have declined payouts, you are one of the founders, have nearly 2.5 million SP on the account @dantheman and 4.7 million SP on you're account @dan. On top you have more posting rewards then @ozchartart, it has been like this for far longer, since you started declining payouts only 2 months ago.

I am just a user, not an early miner, nor a witness, my involvement in Steemit came with posting.
I have since spend hours not only promoting Steemit on the web and in real life, but also teaching people how to use it, explaining how to transfer cryptos, not only STEEM but also bitcoin and how to use crypto in general, from Steemit, exchanges, wallets, etc. For what reason? Because I like Steemit, and want it to grow.
I spend my time writing the posts and analyzing the markets.
No I will not decline payouts on my posts!


Up to the next paragraph:

So by this, does that mean that I am getting punished because someone who you don't like is upvoting my posts?
If that is so please sort that out with him and leave me out of your war.
And again, as you say "In my opinion he has proven himself to be a bad whale", your opinion, and again you try to enforce it upon others?
Same as the bad whale, so do you profit from promoting and voting constantly on some users posts.
You personally drew away at least 1 user from the platform, doing the same you are doing to me now, I'm talking about @masteryoda , whom I have personally given the advice to stay and keep posting, and with this post I personally Invite him back to Steemit to start his posts again! Yoda, we miss you!


Next one:

So you will keep on trying to enforce you'r opinion upon others until they change theirs?


So, you say people cry about censorship, but 2 sentences after you do exactly that,

cry about your comments being flagged, while you excessively down vote me every day with all your power?
You say lets keep it with flags and upvotes, and then complain about your comments getting,,, well,, flagged?!
Meanwhile you are doing exactly the same to me, you are downvoting my posts and even hiding them if you catch them before anyone else, with that you are sabotaging my posts.

You have no problem with my content although you basically said it's worth nothing, and you will not stop down voting it until it fits the reward of your personal opinion?


And finally the last one:

I agree that you developed STEEM and I thank you for developing Steemit!
I do not even wanna dream to accuse you of gaming the rules or securing a larger stake in the project, I believe that you are perfectly aware that you already have a very powerful position, not only as the mastermind and developer of Steemit but also as one of the largest whales on the platform.

From the evidence provided it is clear that you are the one who milked out more money out of STEEM then @ozchartart, even just by posting.
You call other people abusers, while you are preventing my posts doing the normal cycles, and trying to ruin my reputation by calling me out, saying that my charts are worthless, whiles u clearly state it's your personal opinion, you also state that you will clearly pursue enforcing it until everyone changes their opinion about my posts, no matter what.

As you said, we got to deal with the abusers, now I ask you, what have I done to you so badly that you won't stop flagging my posts till everyone stops looking at them, this is pure censorship!

As it stand now you want to drive me out of the platform and won't stop down voting my posts to 0 till you do so.



Future of ozchartart


For now I will keep off from posting the altcoin charts and will keep on posting the daily STEEM and BTS updates.
Another thing that will change is that by starting with this post, all of my posts will go to 100% STEEMPOWER.
The reason being that the altcoin charts which I post are the ones that I consider big money makers (in trading) and they have been, throughout the history of my posting on Steemit, the most downvoted ones.
Furthermore I have no reason to publicly something I think could potentially make allot of money, not for the reason that I don't want to, but for the reason that there are people like @dantheman publicly thrash my posts and charts, who push their opinions about my posts upon others until accepted and refuse to consider any value in them what so ever although charting and market analysis doesn't seem to be something you devoted your life and time to like some others did.

Since @dantheman posted about my @ozchartart account the views on my posts has at least doubled!
That proves that they are being read and are an active part of the community despite the opinion of @dantheman.
Multiple people have reached out to me since, to express support and gratitude for posting the charts.

I have no intention to leave Steemit what so ever!
You can keep on flagging me, I don't care, you can do it to the rest of eternity, I'm not someone who abandons something only cos someone else has a different opinion.



Conclusion


So to put some final words to my post,

I am being downvoted and called out publicly because of the personal opinion of one of the biggest, if not the biggest (2.5m SP+4.7m SP= 7.2m SP , qualified for rank #2 on SP ranking, 1.5m SP alltogether bigger then the what would be #3 ned, with 5.7m SP) whales on Steemit, who won't stop downvoting me until everyone else follows his personal opinion, in response to that:

First of all I thank @dantheman / @dan for making me such a public figure, the interest in my charts grew larger then ever before.
Even interview invites are coming to my email, something I never thought was possible before!

My sincere apologies to everyone mentioned in the post that didn't wanna be dragged into this ( @ned , @officialfuzzy and @masteryoda)

I have not once cried or complained about him flagging me.
I have been a faithful daily poster up to this point.
I have started, both the STEEM and BTS updates on requests by the Steemit community.
I will not leave Steemit.
I will keep posting.
I don't care if you flag me, keep on doing it if you want to.
Powerup and Steem on!

The reason being is that I believe that Steemit is bigger then an individual or a group!
It is a decentralized social media where everyone has the rights to post.
I believe in the idea and the chain that has been put out there and I have no wish or intention to leave it.
I hope this will be an end to the matter and that everyone can keep on with the daily Steeming.

For the note I don't even expect any sort of reply from @dantheman / @dan himself or any other mentioned above.
Although @dantheman if you want to learn more about my charts, how I choose them and why, reach out to me, I have an account on steemit.chat, although I don't use it often I get email notifications (OZmaster on there)

And for the end as it's tradition in my posts, I will also end this one with a song!

You got another thing coming ;)

Kind regards, OZ!

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upvoted to counter the autodownvote

Just to be clear, I have no auto down vote on these posts.

It wasn't yours, and I wasn't referring to the post but to the comment

I cringed so hard reading this post, subtlily attacking dan so that OP appears to be to the victim, rambling irrelevant stuff while completely avoiding the real accusations ( excessive whales upvotes and your content is not worth the money)
Reading this thread I’m shoked by the naivety of steemians who buy this bullshit

I am just a user, not an early miner, nor a witness, my involvement in Steemit came with posting.

You are a Liar @ozchartart, @ozmaster which is your other account also got huge support from whales for posting rubbish cannabis reviews
$4000 for a fucking cannabis pic https://steemit.com/marijuana/@ozmaster/today-s-smoke
And whales consistently upvoted your shitty cannabis post which you also ended with some crappy youtube video. It doesn’t take a genius to know that you are a whale upvoting yourself,no one has ever received so much support from whales for posting garbage beside masteryoda which was probably a whale too. Your charts are also upvoted by hundreds of sock puppets accounts badger1,badger2,badger3,etc..you wouldn't have to do that if your charts were really popular as you claim
I find it hilarious that @dan started upvoting you after this post when you made a pure mockery out of everyone especially him.

The masses, a faceless shared account? You, want to start shit yet again with

"subtlily attacking dan"

rambling irrelevant stuff while completely avoiding the real accusations ( excessive whales upvotes and your content is not worth the money)

The real accusations? Excessive whale upvotes? and.. your content is not worth the money? From the same account that was posting "pizzagate is fake news" and spreading their fear mongering message "investigating or talking about pizzagate is exactly what they want you to do, and you don't have any idea what they have in store for us" LMAO. You find it hilarious? YOU? AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I find it hillarious that YOU equated pedophilia to LGBT and claimed you know that the way to beat the elite is to think like a deprived sick elite and urged everyone to stop talking about pedophiliacs in power because "Once it's global you have to pay attention" and excused pedophiliac behavior by the elite by saying "they have been doing this for a long time" you pedophiliac supprter creep. Get the fuck away from this discussion, you funny in the wrong way creature.

Go look at their comments and replies and the way this user/this group has always cackled at whatever. I got cackled at when I first confronted them for equating LGBT to pedophiles, they told me "Must have hit a nerve, are you a pedophile?" after calling me a crackhead and using the same formula of asserting their opinions as facts and never providing any evidence for anything they say, and then they said how it was "kinda funny" that I thought that earlier, in the first conversation with them, that it was kinda funny that I thought I was making sense, and not the least here this comment structured with the same cackling attitude of laughing in your face without any shred of evidence for anything they say. The gusto to say "you're a liar" is prime example, but pick ANYTHING they say and guarantee that the troll formula of shit talking without proof is in the heart of every sentence. They enjoy cackling at us through anonimity, and it's the same author(s) so yeah, reading by what they put out... its the fucking same person, but don't take my word for it, go prove me wrong.

Calm down, mate.

You just stated that you're aware it's a shared account, so how do you even know you're talking to the person who said that shit?

Chill.

Looking forward to your daily updates, Oz :D
All the best!

I'll admit that I found myself siding with Dan, regarding his stance that you're over-rewarded, on the whole (as an average, compared to what other posters make, particularly those whom use the same, or similar tags as you).

That being said, I've gained much respect towards you for how you handled this situation and for your admirable perspective on it. I admire your resilient, seemingly unwavering positive, attitude.

You have me re-thinking my position, regarding your payouts. Regardless, I think your efforts are worth more than the $5-ish payouts that you've been getting most recently. I'll definitely make an effort to up-vote your posts anytime that I see them near that ridiculous amount.

He handled it exceptional and has my respect and support also!
I have no doubt that with this kind of quality members we will make this place something we can be proud of!

what well thought-out response... respect ozchartart!

hell ya! just to be clear I have found great value in these posts and appreciate your work.

The saga continues, thanks for commenting and being a part of the community. That was my only issue, this accounts lack of interaction. I am curious how much this post will make lol. Scam 😉

That was a good and well thought out response. I know what prompted some of Dan's reaction, but I can fully understand your point as well. You did not get involved in the back and forth heated debate over this issue, and this post is pretty reasonable. I'm impressed and I "get" what @smooth was hinting at.

I've heard that other people trying to make charts have sometimes been attacked for kind of walking onto your "territory". This was hearsay, and I don't know if it was you doing it or other people. By this post I am pretty confused about that hearsay. If it is true though, that isn't cool. As to you getting flagged for your posts. I up voted your posts, not always, but at least a couple of times per week. That gave you an entire $0.01 if you were lucky. Yet, I think you WERE also in the backlash of what I see as a problem with the flag. Powerful people subjectively down voting people like @dollarvigilante because he posts here and doesn't engage further, though before that when he did engage it was because he was talking about stuff other people said before he was here and thus it had no value. Other people do it because of his reputation outside of steemit and controversy. Yet it was subjective, and he is responsible for a lot of people coming to steemit. I know Dan is aware of this, and I suspect you became an obvious center point to illustrate the problem. I will tell you that even with the flags you still make more than most people, so don't let that get you down.

There is a problem with the way the flag works I believe, and I know Dan is aware of it as well. The problem is that finding a solution that is not even easier to game so far has not been clear.

Anyway, this was a good post. I admire you for not acting like an "ass" for getting flagged. That is actually quite admirable. Like I said... you are still doing quite well even with the flags, so please don't let that get you down.

I am anti-flag myself except for Plagiarism, Spam, and Abuse... so I won't down vote anything for subjective reasons. Though I do know why it is there at the moment, as no workable alternative that cannot be potentially gamed worse has really been conceived YET.

Though some of those that do subjectively flag posts with their powerful posts are also people that like to up vote yours, and their own comments to high value. I think some of the hypocrisy involved in the justification for why they flag people based upon their own actions might have finally caused Dan to try to do something about it. From that respect I am glad he did.

You are a decent person I "think" so I think it sucks you happened to be the epicenter of that battle, but fortunately due to the amount you do make you seem to be someone who can be the epicenter and still do quite well. Other people have been crushed, and not just @masteryoda. He is who people mention for Dan, yet Dan is not even the most common whale flagger I'd be willing to wager.

what you are doing seems fair, all due respect to community I think flagging feature should be reviewed and only be used for abuse,plagiarism, etc...
let's say you made a great network with a group of people and anything you post get a lot of upvotes, so what?! this is the prize of your effort for making such communications and your contribute to the community.

Since the "flag" was once again made into a powerful vote with a confusing icon, I think it may be more worth while to rework it into a less powerful one with the proper look to it than trying create a good system for flagging so far. The flag can be added later, as the platform matures.

I was initially impressed by @dantheman calling attention to ozchartart, because I really didn't know someone was making $40-$100 posts, multiple times a day.

But to be honest, I was more impressed by ozchartart's response, as detailed as it was..

It appears to me that public disagreement such as this should happen in private messages so people could have a chance to discuss things and come to an understanding if possible.

Not all dirty laundry needs to be aired out in the middle of the street with a bullhorn.

Or even better, RSVP to Fuzzy's BeyondBitcoin (every Friday) Mumble show, to hash things out.

The idea of "flag-then-explain" doesn't seem to be as effective as "ask-via-openletter-then-debate-then-take-flag-action-if-necessary"

Honestly, none of us should be here to alienate each other. All of us want to see the success of this platform, just everyone has a different opinion on what needs to happen to get there.

+1 for private messages on the platform.

To flag, in internet speak, is saying that someone, an arbiter, an ultimate authority or all over the world known as simply ADMIN will examine something and come to a decision.
The verb to flag is not in line with any of these other conventional definitions:

verb
verb: flag; 3rd person present: flags; past tense: flagged; past participle: flagged; gerund or present participle: flagging
1
mark (an item) for attention or treatment in a specified way.(who's attention or treatment? marked? more like hidden and devalued)
draw attention to.More like draw attention away from. That it is unintentionally the opposite, because universe loves to fuck with assholes who tell people how to live is not the point.
charge (a player) with a penalty by dropping a penalty flag. RULES. rules (echo). After the TOS is discussed then maybe we can appoint some admins jklol..
2
direct (someone) to go in the specified direction by waving a flag or using hand signals.@danthecop
signal to a vehicle or driver to stop, especially by waving one's arm. @danflagwar
raise or throw a flag to indicate a breach of the rules. @selfappointedRefereeDan
3
provide or decorate with a flag or flags. @captaindan
register (a vessel) in a specific country, under whose flag it then sails. and another million analogies about captain dan.

https://www.techopedia.com/definition/31606/downvote

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