RE: An open-ended question to @ned and @dan
Personally. I'm glad. People who just post pics and stories from their vacations DON'T deserve to be making $1k a post or even $200.. All cuz what? It's some halfway decent looking woman and the men on steemit go crazy?
Or posts analyzing markets or giving opinions or doing giveaways or whatever type of crap that is.. all useless.
The reason I'm happy that posts like that get downvoted by those with massive power is because those posts are useless. They are lacking any value on this site. They simply get upvoted cuz masses of people, mostly men, like what they see. That's counter-intuitive and those people who post useless, invaluable information.. do NOT deserve to make that much money OR recognition on this platform. Simple as that. Great job Ned and Dan! Keep the useless posts from getting more than they deserve.
Who do you suggest should be the arbiter of subjective value?
"They are lacking any value "
" like what they see."
These can't be both true.
I giveaway more voting powerin my posts than i receive.
Yes, nothing is more satisfying than watching 2 oligarchs control content on a platform!
Go Dan & Ned!
Destroy everything you have built simply to save us from the content we can easily ignore on our own!
Yay!
Ditto!
^that's it!
I think this is just a little bit unfair. Plenty of people feel that some big whales shouldn't be earning as they are. They were lucky (or smart) enough to get in early, or they were able to invest big, but their content isn't necessarily much better than that of a minnow, who earns $3.00 for a similar post. There might be a lot of disagreement on flagging and when it should be used. Some say it should be reserved for plagiarism, others say it should be used for curating, just as much as upvotes are used for that.
If you look at it like downvoting, so it's simply to curate good/bad content, then flagging gets a less bad rep. Plenty of people would like to downvote some content that they don't feel is very good (or simply over-rewarded by bots), but they are afraid of retaliation from a pissed off whale who can destroy their acount/reputation within minutes. I know I would be, so I use flagging for plagiarism and spamming only. I'd love for it to be called 'downvoting', placed right next to the upvote button, so people wouldn't be so scared to use it. It would feel like a fairer curating system, but that's not the Steemit we live in. In this case, we can only try to speak our mind and hope for some whales to fight our battles for us.
If we want fair, we need to change the way people look at flagging and we need to accept that it's used for curation aswell. If we want to be okay with big whales (not just Dan and Ned) ruling the platform, then we'll have to be okay with the whale war flags and hope we don't get on anyone's bad side. Flagging will simply keep its bad rep and everyone will be afraid of it.
I, personally, don't mind if > $1,000.00 payout posts with no more value than those that earn $3.00 get downvoted somewhat. I would love for that to become socially acceptable, but I know it won't.
In this case, fuzzy (in case you're reading), I don't mean your posts specifically. I really don't know enough about them to form any sort of opinion there.
This is not directed at you, but at a single point I'd like to address.
Who's content was it that helped build the platform up from nothing?
Was it the people who got here early when they were posting for months and earning nothing, yet continued supporting the platform OR was it the people who waited to see what would happen and then once they saw others actually got money they finally decided to support the platform and post?
For some that "good content" does not outweigh the continued support from those who got here early and stayed even when the price dropped to near nothing; while some others with "good content" only seem to show up when the price spikes, then tend to have extended vacations when the price is down.
Loyalty has it's rewards for some I guess and I think that's especially true for many whales/dolphins. I personally would rather support someone with mediocre content that sticks around and helps build the Community over someone with great content that post when the price is high, cashes out and leaves for 6 months until the next pump.
There's a lot more to Steemit than posting content. Behind the scenes, many of these people that aren't considered great content creators are some of the most ardent supporters and Community builders in the ecosystem.
Many don't see that part of them, because those people aren't Community builders and don't come behind scenes to help out, they just comment about content on Steemit and complain about how much in rewards someone did or didn't earn. So their perspective is skewed. :)
They see Alice, who's content is crap to them, and it's earning $300; but they have no idea Alice is in chat every single day helping out new users or fighting spam and then they complain about the rewards she's receiving.
I'm not saying that's always the case, but it is the case enough times to bring it up so that others are aware of why some with not so great content make big rewards. It's not always about the content, sometimes it's about the individual and the other things they do here and it works both ways. If someone's an ass, yet their content is great, they may get flagged to zero rewards. :)
I can completely understand what you wrote here and I agree that content isn't the only reason people deserve upvotes. Heck, I upvote people, simply because they're good conversational partners too.
You're right, some people do a lot of things behind the scenes and deserve rewards for that. I'm sure some actually get those and others don't. People don't always notice these contributions, but if they are really that invisible, shouldn't we drag those contributions out into the open more? We've got plenty of members who keep going up there in Trending. Why not have them shine the spotlight on some valuable, behind the scenes members?
What I don't completely agree on is the fact that the early birds should be constantly rewarded for being the first ones. Yes, they got in first and put their faith into a platform. However, from what I've seen, posts from the early days got crazy high payouts, compared to now. Isn't that their reward? They've managed to build up their earnings really fast here, while an average newbie struggles to even get $1.00 payouts now.
Yeah, some people are here, simply to cash in when the price is right. However, not all of our low earning minnows are new and not all of them quit when things get rought. There are plenty here that have pumped out posts every single day for over half a year and they are still struggling to get seen. They don't leave when things get tough. Yes, they vent sometimes, but can you really blame them? By now, they've been here half as long as the first members have. By next year, that difference is only a quarter. How long do the first members have to be carried on hands and feet for being the first? Who even qualifies as being the first? I'm sure if Steemit is still here, 10 years from now, all of us current members will all be considered the first.
So when is someone seen as a loyal member? I've been here about 8 months now and have never stopped posting more than a few days, due to vacation, where I refuse to go online. I help plenty of people out aswell, but I do it through comments, because I don't know how all of this 'behind the scenes' stuff works. Am I a loyal member? Or will I never be, because I hadn't heard of Steemit 6 months before I joined? Or because I'm not a programmer or other useful backstage person?
(P.S. Not meant to be personal, I'm just using myself as an example here.)
Bravo 👏🏻... Bravo 👏🏻
Up-Yunked
And I guess sports players shouldn't make millions either. Perhaps "the house" should just keep all the extra money and pay each player a steady $50,000/year regardless of how much attention and money they might otherwise attract to the "stadium"...
but I do agree with @freiheit50, that downvotes should be qualified, although in this case dan's @sweetsjjj downvote turned out to be merely a 1% downvote, versus ned's triple -100% downvotes on @officialfuzzy, which also presented no "direct objection" whatsoever, despite being orders of magnitude more impactful.
Nope. They shouldn't make anything near what they make. That money should be given to the people, those whose tax dollars generally are pirated from them to build these garbage ass stadiums.. Rarely are stadiums paid for with private funds. It's generally tax dollars.. So where's my cut for you using my money to build a stadium I didn't ask for that you're still gonna try and charge me $100 a seat to sit in?.. Are you really that much of a sheep @alexpmorris? or was that a bad joke that I just don't seem to get?...
Your name is totally appropriate, Comrade Marx.
Social Justice Warriors are on Facebook -----> That way.
PS - I agree public funds being used for stadiums is theft, but we both know that's not the metaphor people mean when they ask this question. It's about who generates the value.
totally agree that's it's an outrageous abuse to use state funds for stadiums. it's not outrageous to charge $100 a seat, if some "sucker" wants to pay that much for it. And if state funds are used, then most of that past operating expenses should go back to the people. But I GUARANTEE YOU, they won't fill $100 seats, let alone $100,000 box seats, with players earning $50K/year. If you want the "cheap seats", that's what college games are for. And ironically, I'm sure you're aware of all the crazy "college recruiting stories", because great student players equates to HUGE alumni donations...
But if you think that a sports star, or any "star" for that matter, would stick around accepting 50,000/year, when their attention and "value" would likely attract multi-million dollar offers elsewhere, that's a pretty "idealistic" worldview.
If that's how you feel, though, I highly recommend you start a career as a YouTuber. You may only make a few hundred bucks, but you can be comforted in knowing you just might be "donating" MILLIONS of dollars to the "greater good" (well, google's perspective of the "greater good", at least)...
Perhaps the irony is that most of the complaints I've seen on STEEMIT are that the STEEMIT and crypto posts seem to "eat up all the rewards". I'm personally happy to make a few extra bucks, versus the NOTHING I received posting on facebook.
Id take fiber to the home as community broadband over a stadium anyday.
I don't know much about the situation, however if it is an issue of downvoting because they feel the posts are incorrectly valued, fine. I agree a comment explaining downvote would be nice.
As far as not seeing payout related to value that is fine for now. We are new. Right now, steemit is a numbers game. But guess when this site is huge, the cream will rise. I believe the most valued posts a year from now will be held to a higher standard than today. However, this takes time. I believe in steemit. my job is to create the best quality content that I can. Perceived value will come in it's time if I keep doing my job. No need to bother that vacation posts and pretty girls make bank. I like exotic lands and pretty girls.
I agree that some posts are incorrectly valued, however I think that is not to blame the author. After all, the community upvotes it (and ofcourse a billion bots I bet).
There's a reason the sex industry makes billions, haha. It is simply what people like. But the author is not to blame. I think they should either do something about the bots, or the upvote curve or something - but punishing the author sounds kinda unfair to me..
Honestly, if they start downvoting big authors like them, they should return the favor and give big upvotes to small authors.
Time to change those names on trending page more often.
Mostly you are right. But together with the downvote a comment should be placed to tell the author and the community the reason of the downvote.
@tngflx - I agree, to an extent. I still hoped to see stories about people's lives.. Just not about constant vacationing.. About maybe their careers, hopes, dreams, daily life, likes, dislikes, etc.. I hoped to get to know more about people on here. I wanted to see stories as well, but not always what vacation you took or are on.. More like, what's your family like? How do they live? What's it like where you live? Etc.. I hoped to find more philosophical and intellectual posts, ones that actually make you research topics and give input in return. Idk, I had a lot of hopes for steemit and it's mostly come thru.. Just , to me.. I believe that the guy who's struggling in a third world country and can only manage to get on steemit once a week, maybe two.. deserves a larger chunk of what's here than someone who's living it up in luxury already at a fancy ass resort on some hardly known island.. Those people just don't deserve it. At all. IMO.
@freiheit50 - I agree, in fact. I believe that along with the transparency of steemit as far as who you are and how much your wallet holds.. should indeed carry over into downvoting posts. I might be sitting here thinking they got downvoted cuz they're useless or not worth that much.. but for all I know.. there could've been a real-life altercation between these people.. lol. Never know. On a platform of clarity though, it'd be nice to have solid reasoning behind a downvote. :)
WOW, congrats @kainmarx on that $600+ payout you received last year... I hope I too can get that lucky some day, as I have yet to come even close to such a large payout on a single post!!!
I hope you at least followed your own advice and shared most of the proceeds of your hard work among those struggling in a third world country. They need it and deserve it more. You, me and others living it up in luxury already at a fancy ass resorts on some hardly known island shouldn't keep a darn bit of it!
Link: My latest unfortunate, unjust experience with the law..
Wow!
That is some serious touche =D
Part of the problem, in my opinion, is that the 10 or 20 accounts that were mining before there was a forum (I know, fuck me right?) have a lot of unearned voting power, and these guys are the kind of dicks who didn't seem to see the irony of being a nerd and a bully at the same time. Pretty rare creatures but they'll upvote titties and trading hax all day long.
According to the self-voting crowd, it's their right to do what they like with stake. The purpose of promoting and rewarding quality, absolutely not the first paragraph of the whitepaper, is irrelevant. Get with the program!
It's funny when it's coming from someone that mostly posting about the "useless" stuff .
LOL. God forbid I've posted maybe 1 vacation post out of the entirety of my time here. rolls eyes
I'd love for you to show me all the things you consider "useless" from my blog. At least mine has variety.. instead of a bunch of the same garbage.
** - Coming from a guy who literally just posts pictures of insects and reptiles?! And enters those stupid contests I mentioned?!... LMGDFAO!!
I'm just taking your statement " They are lacking any value on this site", Have you ever see your own post? what value does it give to this site?
You better deep looking at yourself first before judging someone like that.
My posts have actual intellectual value? LOL? I'm sorry, but provoking thought in others isn't useless to me. Posting about how nice your 4 course lunch at your 5 star hotel in your 6 star country on your 7 star jet ride is complete and utter trash. Maybe what you consider "valuable" and I do are different ideas.. Cuz I'm sorry, but yes, my posts (most of them) actually make people think about ideas or concepts..
the point is, ironically, that the community judges what it considers valuable. I am fascinated by all sorts of things, from mushrooms, to tech, to programming, to trading, to travel, to cute funny animals, to touching personal stories, to you name it.
But just because makeup tutorials may not generally be of interest to me personally, does not detract from the value it may have to others. Write about what is passionate to you, and what inspires you. If it's truthful, honest, and sincere, whatever the genre, over time you will likely attract a following that likes and appreciates your work.
We're each doing our own thing, and that's great. But to be jealous of someone else who appears to be "doing better than you", without even an understanding or appreciation of what it took to get there, won't likely move you forward a single bit.
Link: Reflections and Tips for International Steemit Members and Growth Communities
Intresting who make this comment ............. maybe all trolls around must look first themself ?How you contribute to steemit ?
I contribute unique information from my life or my thoughts. It doesn't have to be deemed valuable by anyone, idc.. That wasn't the point.. You seem to miss the concept.. Cuz while you may think my posts are worthless.. So do I to yours.. Where's your originality? All I see is resteemed crap and attention whoring about how you got "cyber stalked.." Why even be a troll and comment in the first place. No one was trolling here. We're expressing our opinions.. There's a major difference. I don't post things with an intention of getting under someone's skin or annoying them.
Acusing people about posting crap demand to look yourself first right ? Where is your originalty in posting ? A single photo or begging for support ? Or it is the fact no one cares about your vacation ?
https://steemit.com/life/@kainmarx/a-day-at-adventure-island-in-tampa
I agree. I thought this platform would provide something really productive. Better than fb. Instead it's just mostly for travel blogs with people posing how they have fun. Instead of some tips or tricks. Hmm...
Only if you fixate on the trending page. The real problem there is also with the curation emphasis on rewards. People try to dogpile things they THINK will be popular to maximize their curation rewards instead of just voting things they actually read, watched, listened to, etc. and liked.
This is a problem. Though I rarely look at the trending page. It has been rather cyclic and repetitive for the more than a year I have been on steemit.
I guess I expected too much from steemit :O It's just another facebook I would say. I even saw some people just posing a photo a day and earned like 6 dollar per post. LOL. While I wrote all the article so heartfully and no one cares :D
People care, we just are limited in out number of votes per day. We can't vote on everything and there is a problem with discoverability so it is easy to miss things. If you fixate on how much you make you'll always be unhappy here. I had many great posts make $0, and not because they were down votes to oblivion like my latest post yesterday. (I am turning that to a positive, it gave a lot of good information following the data trails of the mass bot down vote that hit me)
Yeah positivity is the key! You mentioned it well. It should be applied daily to our life not just in this crypto world. Yes I believe it will pay off one day. Right now I'm still trying to figure out what kind of post should I do. Wondering about crypto news or travel blogs. I guess I can do both and see how's it will be :D So let's work for our goal guys! Keep the positive people and positive things flowing in our life! I believe we will achieve anything we want if we push hard enough!
Don't spend a lot of time thinking about what you should write. When you are inspired, write. Many of them will not gain much traction. So what? You're writing what you are inspired to write and that can be pretty rewarding regardless of other people. If things go well some of them will be noticed, and that will only increase over time as long as you keep writing.
That's exactly what I'm going to do man! Writing blog actually forces me to do a lot of research. Plus I'm a perfectionist. I only try to produce good quality post. Thanks for the support man! Definitely following you :) Glad to see like minded people )