Follow Up to People Rank Algorithm for Better Curation Rewards

in #steemit8 years ago


Yesterday I released an article where I suggested that the Page Rank algorithm used by Google might be a viable alternative to the current voting system. Today I would like to add some additional insights that I have had.

Using a simple page rank simulator I played around with various graph structures to get a better understanding of the graph theory and behavior of Page Rank.

What I discovered is that in a world where everyone is equal, those who create links amongst themselves gain weight relative to those who do not cross link. I also discovered that those who give links without receiving lose direct influence, though they may gain via indirect influence.

Negative Weights don't Work

Using Page Rank you cannot have edges with negative weights, this means that it is not possible have your voting influence countered, especially if you are a bad whale.

Variation on Page Rank - Recursive Delegated Voting

Many people have been asking for the ability to delegate VESTS to other users who could then use those VESTS to cast votes. To really work well, it should be possible to redelegate your votes an infinite number of times. With delegated voting it should also be possible to "cancel out" someone else's vote with your own vote. This is already possible with bot wars, but with delegated negative voting we can bypass the network spam.

Scalability

This algorithm has many of the same scalability considerations as Page Rank. This means that each account would be limited in the number of accounts it could delegate to. Furthermore, there would need to be a minimal delegated amount.

Benefits

If implemented it would be relatively trivial to police vote spammers as well as those who would abuse the power of negative voting to silence legitimate voters.

Whales would be able to delegate their VESTS to other users who can use the increased influence to provide better curation and increase the value of the VESTS.

The Evil Whale Problem

We live in a world filled with evil whales. The power elite who control our economy and the printing presses are willing to risk burning down the economy to increase their power and wealth. Their interests are clearly not aligned with the masses.

While Steem is young and has significant upside growth potential and relatively little economic power, the easiest way for whales to grow their power, wealth, and influence is to work with everyone else. Once Steem achieves a level of entrenchment similar to Facebook, Twitter, etc, the whales can misbehave with relative impunity because everyone is "locked in".

It is critical that the masses of dolphins, minnows, and good whales, have the power to efficiently neutralize bad actors for the benefit of all. I am committed to building a system that empowers people who work for the benefit of all and disempowers those who attempt to work against the best interest of the wider community.

Conclusion

Creating a distributed, self-governing, mob that works reliably to allocate resources for the betterment of the whole rather than the individual is challenging. As the stakes are raised it becomes increasingly difficult to prevent abuse. Recursive Delegated Voting is a variation on Page Rank that might just do the trick.

I would like to thank everyone who has participated in yesterday's discussion.

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Just take into account that the simulations you made was on past behavior where they didn't know about the new "page rank" algorithm you want to implement now... I don't take a position here... I am just curious how the community will adjust their behavior when they exactly know how the new rules are "working"...

PS Remember what we thought about the future of the "comments" on our platform and the "rules" we abandoned the last minute... without new rules and the comments are working just fine....

Not only are comments working fine, but there is a system in place to keep spam and trolls in check (although with the loss of @wang).

What other site has managed to accomplish this, while at the same time monetarily reward users for commenting with value?

I had begun to lose hope as a certain frequent "troll" started making my life miserable and quite a few others. I originally would have tried to rip him a new one, but through learning from Rok-Sivante's open letter to the hacker decided to put myself in the "trolls" shoes (however filthy they might be).

The next day the reputation system dropped and his comments were made invisible unless you clicked to see and his posts were greyed out. Absolutely brilliant way to work on a decentralized platform. He isn't silenced, but his vocal cords have been removed and he now has a whisper, which was the result of karma.

He still can slowly work his way back into a reputation that allows more people to see his content.

This is the opposite of what Twitter did with Milo Yiannopoulos Twitter Permanently Suspends Conservative Writer Milo Yiannopoulos. And @dollarvigilante hinted Milo may be coming to steemit.

And I am working on many more even bigger names. I'm currently trying to convince a friend named Milo, amongst others.

This could be huge, since a centralized platform silenced someone for what I felt was a very minor tweet.

That being said, the way comments have evolved, I have confidence that the "page rank" algorithm or any other idea that gets rolled out in the near future will be innovative and solve the current problem of scalability and voting from a single account by distributing voting to trusted people instead of one. Because even if you can have multiple people log into one account, the many different voters will still use the same voting power of the users account (unless something else has been implemented).

Great minds are working on this. From the hack, to the comment section changes, to the reputation system, developers have performed far better than I could have hoped and this is only BETA!

Hahaha I'm so glad they added images for comments, that makes this place golden sometimes XD

A bold statement, but I hope everyone can work together to achieve this.

I am committed to building a system that empowers people who work for the benefit of all and disempowers those who attempt to work against the best interest of the wider community.

Statement's like this one are the reason I spend half my life here now. Viva La Steemit!

Steemit is still flying under the radar, but if and when it goes viral there will be a social media war. Facebook, Reddit, YouTube, Wordpress, LinkedIn, Pinterest... all will suddenly looking to close the giant black hole that is sucking away their users. Preparing for a coordinated and well capitalized bad whale attack may very well be life-or-death in the coming months. Kudos to Dan for getting on this now!

Wow, scary thought! I am glad it is being worked on too. Maybe we can convert the bad whales that infiltrate from those other platforms! Maybe not ol' Zucky himself though. Would we ever want to limit the amount of Steem Power that can be purchased?

Well said, yes this is how I see it playing out also. At the moment its like preparing the armour before you know exactly the nature of the attack to come.

Steemit is the NAFTA of social media. Giant sucking sound.

You are creating an organised self-regulated anarchy system :)

I like the ideas that you came out with after yesterday's announcement.

Yes, the limits should exist to prevent thing to spiral out of control.

Limits both for delegating votes and for limiting or taming the bad whales.

This journey is becoming more and more interesting. I like it.

Thanks @dantheman:).

Looks like you are moving forward with this quickly.

Whilst I agree the bad whale problem exists and could likely become more of a problem as the platform becomes bigger, I think community vigilance will be key here as it often is.

We have already seen the community point out when things are inherently unfair or when people are misbehaving in a way that goes against the spirit of the platform:

We have seen successful campaigns to weed out those committing fraud, plagiarism and other methods to game the system and those that harm the community.

I believe part of this is because people on Steemit feel they have a personal stake in this platform. We all believe in it and we want to succeed.

I would never have said the same for Facebook even at my height of using that platform because to me Facebook was a faceless corporation using me and my fellow users to make money.

I never felt like I had any kind of say in what they did and I absolutely never felt like I had a stake in it's success or failure. If it died I would simply have moved on to a new platform.

That is what is beautiful about Steemit and what is most powerful about it.

As long as you and @ned and the team keep listening, evolving and incorporating us into the equation than we will be able to deal with all problems as they arise.

I look forward to the continuing evolution of Steemit.

Google Page Rank uses a recursive algorithm because correlation across a high, diverse and strongly connected set of referrers is needed to make spoofing hard enough and thwart sybil attacks. In the case of Steem, the cost of Steem Power is enough to prevent sybil attacks in voting.

There are also potential attack vectors like denial-of-service attack based on leveraging the cycle detection algorithm from a linear increase of controlled accounts, or vote "double spend" as a side effect of reallocating delegated voting power just after a graph rebalancing.

More details in this post

Maybe even add a feature, where you can set the % of how much you split your delegated curation rewards.

As I suggested in reply to your post yesterday, the more "invisible" this delegated voting thing can be, the better. If people could log in, go about their business voting on articles, and under the hood their account rank is computed based on these votes, that would be beautiful.

You've already done this with author and curation rewards; almost nobody actually knows how they work, but they work really well and highly exploitation-resistant.

One of the problems I find, is that people don't seem to be curating comments as much as they should. Which is the real meat and potatoes which brings more engagement to the content on steem.

I wrote about it just last night but I scrolled off already. :)

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