Bidbot Experiment: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly

in #steemit5 years ago (edited)

Readers who have been with me awhile know I ran a few Steemit bidbot experiments last year, but they were small experiments. Small bids, small amounts, and small rewards. A couple of times, I'm sure I lost money on the bots, though I didn't count too closely. The idea was to merely get familiar with them so I could understand what the issue was with the bots and get some perspective on why they've been disruptive to the platform. My curiosity satisfied, I quit playing with them after a week or so.

A recent controversy surrounding allegations of vote buying in another context piqued my interest again in the bidbots. What could be so wrong with the process of increasing one's rewards with a small investment intended for just that purpose? After all, isn't that what Wall Street investors do every day?

I think the situation is a bit more nuanced than that, and I hope this post illustrates just how.

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Image from Pixabay.

My Latest Steembot Experiment

So I decided to run a new Steembot experiment. On Sunday, March 17, 2019, at approximately 9:44 p.m., I published a post titled Experimental Post. It has absolutely no value. It's a completely useless shitpost, published for one purpose only: To buy a bidbot vote.

Unlike the majority of my posts, I did not promote it in any way. I published it, tagged it with the #Steemit tag, and that's all I did until I placed my bid three days later. My hypothesis was this: That one post would earn me a greater return on investment (ROI) than an average post would earn me with my normal routine.

So I should pause right here and discuss my usual post publishing and promotion routine. First, I write the best post possible. I put 100% of my energy into writing the best damn post on whatever topic with every single post I write. No particular reason other than personal pride. Secondly, I tag each post with the five most appropriate tags I can think of based on the topic ensuring that one of those tags is #powerhousecreatives. After that, I share the link in more than 20 Discord servers, pausing to read, vote, resteem, and comment on the posts of others as per each server's rules and my personal interests. That process usually takes an hour to an hour-and-a-half and includes automated upvotes in those servers that offer it and for which I qualify. In other words, it's considerable work. When you factor in that I spend no less than an hour, and sometimes up to three (I've been known to spend six), crafting a post then spend an hour, and sometimes up to two, promoting it, I put in some serious time. I did none of that for my experimental post.

Nevertheless, within 14 minutes, I was able to garner 19 votes for a total of $.23 STU, an humble return. In nine hours, that number was 71 votes for a total of $1.03 STU. In 24 hours, I'd received 76 votes for a total of $1.05 STU. And 24 hours later, no extra votes.

So, within 48 hours, I'd received a potential payout of $1.05 STU with no promotion whatsoever, and I had not yet made my bidbot investment.

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On March 20, 2019, at approximately 1:15 p.m., I placed a 40 STEEM bid on The Rising bidbot. You can see the value of that bid, in the image below, was $19.48 USD.

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Interestingly, right about that time, I received three upvotes from @up1, @lereve, and @antonella. I have no idea if there is a connection, but it's an interesting correlation.

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These three upvotes took my total upvotes, before the bidbot vote, to 82 for a total amount of $1.19 STU.

Within the hour, I'd say about 30 to 40 minutes later, I saw the return on my investment (ROI). After The Rising bot placed its vote, I had 83 upvotes for a total of $27.81 STU.

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At first glance, it looks as if I've lost money, but these numbers don't tell the whole story. Let's calculate the ROI.

Steembot Lottery Winner

The way Steembots work is quite interesting. If you go to Steembot Tracker, you'll find a list of them.

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It's a rolling list, which means the bot at the top of the list is the one that votes next. You have to get your bid in before the next vote. But the most important information is on the left side of that grid.

The vote value is how much a 100% upvote from that bot is valued at the time of the upvote. On the list above, the top bot on the list has a vote value of $42.81, but that's not the vote value that everyone who bids on the bot will get. Rather, the value of each upvote is based on how many people bid on that bot and the percentage of the total bid that each contains. Let me illustrate by example.

Let's say XYZ Bidbot offers an upvote value of $1.00. If one person bids $.25 and no one else bids on that bot, then that one person will get the full $1.00 upvote. That's a good investment. But let's say two people bid on that bot; one of them bids $.10 and the other one bids $.40. In that case, the total bid was $.50, however, the first bidder registered 20% of that bid while the other tallied 80%. Therefore, the first bidder receives a $.20 upvote while the second bidder receives a $.80 upvote, totallying $1.00.

To see how many other bids there are on a bot before you place your bid, you have to click on the orange Action button and then click on "Details." It's tricky figuring out how much is too much of a bid.

At any rate, how much ROI did my 40 STEEM bid net me?

At the time of my bid, STEEM was listed at $.490176 USD at CoinMarketCap. That means I effectively threw $19.60704 USD into my investment. At the time of the actual vote, the price of STEEM hadn't changed much, so I'll use these figures as I continue (This is a good reason, BTW, to cast your bid as close to time of the next vote as you can).

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It's important to point out that the default reward ratio on payout is 50% Steem Power and 50% SBD, but the author only gets 75% of payout while all the upvoters (including the bot) splits the rest. Yesterday, this post paid out and I received $20.71 in author rewards.
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Here it is in my wallet:

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At the time of payout, SBD was at $1.05 USD. That's equivalent to $10.87485 USD. Since STEEM was valued at .475972 at that time, my Steem Power (SP) payout amounted to the equivalent of $10.629406704 USD. Add those two figures together and that comes to $21.504256704 USD.

Again, my initial investment was $19.60704 USD. Subtract that from my earnings, and my shitpost ROI was $1.897216704. Subtract the $1.19 STU in upvotes I got prior to my investment (valued at .58330944 USD) and my ROI from the bidbot turned out to be a measly $1.313907264. But imagine doing that five to ten times a day every day for a year. The potential return is enormous.

Contrast these earnings, however, with the next post I wrote, going through my normal routine, two hours before payout and I sit with $2.38 STU for payout. STEEM currently sits at .453335 USD and Steem Dollars at $1.02 at Coinmarketcap. Taking 75% of the STU and dividing it in half, multiplying both SP and STEEM projected payouts means my ROI for that post, with about two hours of time invested, comes to $1.314965875. Trust me, my time is worth a hell of a lot more than that.

What's Quality Got to Do With It?

It makes me wonder, if I can earn as much ROI from a single bidbot vote, which takes all of five minutes, as I can from a one hour investment in promotion, then why shouldn't I? So why didn't I experiment with my most recent post instead of creating a shitpost? The answer is, I needed a control, a stark contrast to my usual posting and promotion routine, in order to isolate the results.

From this experiment, I can ascertain that, had I invested in the bidbot vote for a normal, average post, my ROI would have been very similar. Posting the Steem Monsters post the very next day and waiting until payout to post again means other factors affecting payouts were limited, allowing me to get a realistic look at the bidbot effect. So why does that matter?

It matters because this very average post of mine has earned a total of $2.38 STU with only 47 upvotes in seven days.

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I can assume that the people who voted for that post thought it worth their percentages. Otherwise, they would not have cast their votes. The exception to this would be those kind folks who auto-upvote every post of mine simply because I impressed them at some point in the past. Those people also voted for the shitpost, by the way. But if you examine all the upvotes on both posts, you'll find there are some voting accounts on each post that you won't find on the other. These are the manual human upvotes. These are the upvotes on which quality--actual post quality--ought to be measured. If we were to put these two posts side by side, we could judge the average power of manual upvotes for each of them. On that, we could ascertain the relative value that each post contributes to the blockchain.

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As you can see, the experimental post has a higher total upvote value, due in large part to a single upvote by @Neoxian, an Orca with a stellar reputation on the blockchain, who gave it a very generous .56 upvote. For whatever reason. However, as I hypothesized, the Steem Monsters post garnered a higher average among the manual human upvotes.

How did I determine what is a manual human upvote? The process was simple, but it took a little time. There are some accounts that I know follow me and upvote every post, no matter what. Then there are accounts that upvote me based on a membership. Included in that category are curation trails and Discord channels such as Power House Creatives (aka @steemitbloggers), @qurator, and @steembasicincome. A few of the Discord channels have an upvote bot that will upvote specific types of posts or offer free upvotes based on other criteria; examples include @steemmonsters, which will upvote Steem Monsters-related posts, @esteemapp, which only upvotes posts made from the eSteem app, and PAL (Peace, Abundance, Liberty), whose criteria includes a 30-hour cooldown period. Finally, I compared the two posts and some other recent posts and removed those accounts that were common, assuming them to be auto-upvotes. I know I have quite a few of these because I usually can get more than $1.00 STU in upvotes before I can finish my normal routine of sharing in the various Discord channels I frequent.

All of this is to say that quality is a huge determining factor in what kind of rewards are to be expected. However, quality alone won't do it. One has to put forth the time and effort to promote one's posts no matter what kind of quality sits on the table. Without promotion, results will be meager at best.

NOTE: Using my normal posting and publishing routine, I have managed to attract many @curie votes in the past year, pushing those posts that receive such votes considerably higher in ROI. This further illustrates the importance of quality since Curie doesn't upvote posts promoted by bidbots.

What Bidbots Do to the Steemit Rewards Pool

There's just one more thing to evaluate with regard to Steemit bidbot voting. What does it do to the rewards pool?

Like bidbot payouts, the blockchain creates a fixed number of potential rewards each day. Those rewards are divvied up to all the parties with a vested interest in the blockchain. Without getting into the actual numbers involved, I'll illustrate the principle with an analogy.

Let's assume the blockchain creates 40,000 STEEM on any given day. 75% of that, or 30,000, goes to authors and curators. Let's assume that two-thirds (20,000 STEEM) of that goes to authors and the remaining one-third (10,000 STEEM) goes to curators, the category into which bidbots fall.

If we divvy up 10,000 STEEM among all the curators from redfish to whale, including bidbots, each curator will receive a proportion of those rewards based on the strength of their individual SP. An example of a bidbot with relative SP strength is @buildawhale, which currently has over 67,000 SP and another 1 million+ delegated to it. With a rank of Orca III, it's closing in on whale status pretty quickly.

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@therising, the bidbot I used for this experiment, is in the same status - Orca III. It has over 59,000 STEEM in its wallet and an additional 3 million+ delegated to it. It also claims to share 100% of its bot earnings with delegators, which likely explains why it has so much in delegations. In my view, that's a plus.

All of that aside, however, taking another look at the rewards from my experimental post, curators earned $6.74 STU from that post. The lion's share of that went to the bot, which contributed $26.27 STU of the total upvotes for that post. Had I not bid on the bot, that would mean the other curators would have had to split $1.18 STU.

Let's do some more math: The bot's portion of the total upvote value for that post equates to 95.7%. If the bot received that percentage of the total curation rewards, then it took $6.45018 and left about .29 STU for everyone else, a paltry sum to divide between 25 accounts. On the other hand, those 25 accounts would have divided $1.18 STU without the bidbot vote, the lion's share of that going to @neoxian, a manual human voter.

So what do bidbots do to the rewards pool? They sink their teeth into it and rip it to shreds. And this is why you hear so many people, like @quillfire, constantly haranguing witnesses and whales for supporting the bots. It could also be a contributing factor to why there was such a precipitous decline in user activity last year (The decline in STEEM value during last year's bear market was also likely a contributing factor).

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From @arcange: Steem Statistics – 2018.12.25

The Residual Effects of Bitbots on Steemit Post Quality

So far, I've shown that bidbot upvoting can lead to higher author rewards and lower curator rewards for individual posts, the effect of post quality and promotion on manual human upvotes, the difference in ROI between the two, and the negative effect that bidbots have on the rewards pool. But do they have any effect on post quality? I would answer in the affirmative.

Let's take a sample post:

This two-day-old promo post on EpicDice has garnered $263.09 STU from 682 upvotes. That's about the number of votes I've been known to receive from a @Curie upvote that earned me in the range of $40 to $60 STU. Granted, the post isn't nearly the shitpost that my experimental post was, but it isn't any better quality (and probably slightly less) than my Steem Monsters post either.

@EpicDice only has 69 followers and is barely one month old. I would wager that a good number of its manual human upvotes come from its Trending status as a result of its multiple bidbot investments. And the Trending page is full of such examples.

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EpicDice is an account worth over $1,000 now. Not bad for only four published posts. Clearly, this account started with someone's personal investment, but it also sits with over 20,000 SP delegations. I won't claim it doesn't add value to the blockchain. There are people who love to gamble, though I'm not one of them, so providing a source of entertainment where gamblers can enjoy themselves over a game of chance does offer some value to some people. Nevertheless, new users should not visit the trending page only to find half of one account's published posts trending because that account bought its way there.

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The Steem blockchain is based on a single principle: To reward participants based on the value they bring to the blockchain. We must realize this value is relative. It isn't objective. That's why rewards are determined in part on an upvote system. All participants have the opportunity to vote their subjective judgment on the value of others' contributions. The practice of bidbot upvoting, however, subverts that.

I'll state for the record that I've got no issue with the bidbots themselves, or for their existence. In a free market economy, and the Steem blockchain is a free market economy, one should expect some choices to devalue the community standard. Wall Street has its junk bonds, but it also has rules to regulate bad behavior.

I applaud those efforts to promote the blockchain and Steemit in order to attract new users. I also applaud the efforts of communities such as Power House Creatives and Qurator to promote quality above crass capitalism. But if the efforts of fine folks like @raj808 to get Steem listed on Coinbase and other exchanges is going to have any real long-term effect, it's going to require cleaning out the pool (and I don't mean the rewards pool). We can start with the trending page. What kind of effort would it take to create an algorithm that diminishes the influence of posts that rely heavily on bidbot upvotes? Not much.

Disclaimer: Any error in math is surely my fault. I do my best, but I'm a wordmith, not a mathematician. Also, my apologies to any curators negatively impacted by this experiment. I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me.

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I still don't use bidbots and manually curate. Time is not on my side, but, I do like to know who I am voting for and what they are writing.

I learned a lot more than bargained for reading all the comments, but, I definitely walk away a little bit (read A LOT) smarter about it all.

Get out of the weeds, Quill!

!tip

Thank you very kindly.

The pleasure is mine!

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Great analysis on the ROI side of things here and appreciate all the effort you have put in.

@Quillfire couldn't have said it any better in my opinion adding that the indirect consequences of bidbots are the bulk of the story here.

I dare say your graph with dwindling user base numbers would mostly come from new users seeing how things work after diving a little deeper on the platform and checking out a week or two later.

I gave my own account of this in my 1 year review a couple of weeks back as you don't have to look very far to see how things are going on down here. Drop in market has also had an impact I'm sure but the dwindling number of active users has only increased the concentration of bid bot accounts, making it more visible than before.

It really would be ace if the trending page was a true trending page based on manual curation initiatives like the ones you mentioned and a separate section for promoted content that uses bidbots. I doubt that will happen though.

Posted using Partiko Android

Great analysis on the ROI side of things here and appreciate all the effort you have put in.

Thanks.

@Quillfire couldn't have said it any better in my opinion adding that the indirect consequences of bidbots are the bulk of the story here.

That is the ultimate condequence, yes. But I'd wager that most of the people leaving the platform for this reason have no idea really how bidbots work. They look at the trending page and huff and puff. Some of that is laziness. They wonder why their posts aren't going anywhere when these mediocre posts rise to the top of the trending page. But they also don't stop to think that their own posting habits are keeping them from earning more. If you treat Steemit like Facebook, you'll get Facebook results. How much does Facebook pay, again?

That's not to say the bidbots aren't causing issues, but you can earn on Steemit even with the bidbot presence (I've proven that). In the real world, there are bad actors, hooligans, ne'er-do-wells, sucking up economic benefits like sponges and taking from those who produce, but that doesn't stop (even with so much entitlement going around) hard workers from migrating upward through the classes. Those who do have figured out how in spite of the obstacles. So if someone gets discouraged and leaves without bothering to investigate the playing field, it's partly because they had unrealistic expectations to begin with. You won't earn $100 for any post if you only have 20 followers and you post nothing but cat memes--unless you pay a bidbot.

I dare say your graph with dwindling user base numbers would mostly come from new users seeing how things work after diving a little deeper on the platform and checking out a week or two later.

There's no way to test this, but I wonder what it would look like in a bull market.

Drop in market has also had an impact I'm sure but the dwindling number of active users has only increased the concentration of bid bot accounts, making it more visible than before.

Unfortunately, true. And if it keeps going this direction, Steemit will become a pay-to-play game where only bidbot voters are making anything. If you don't pay the bidbots, you'll be left in the dust.

It really would be ace if the trending page was a true trending page based on manual curation initiatives like the ones you mentioned and a separate section for promoted content that uses bidbots. I doubt that will happen though.

Me too.

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An excellent post. For me, the biggest issue with Steem/Steemit is that its rules are not designed to meet its stated goals of rewarding quality content and curation. I realize that Steem is also a crypto and that things like bidbots can encourage investment, which may help Steem as a crypto, but at the same time, as you show, that hurts Steem as a quality content platform. I think the Steem blockchain should decide which of these goals it wants to pursue and then change the rules to support that goal. I personally no longer have interest in spending massive amounts of time putting effort into a post here, because it simply isn't worth the time both because of the reward structure and because my audience, for visualization posts, simply isn't here. It also hurts that steemit does not support more content types, such as equations and embedding interactive web content. I introduced many people to Steemit and I am the only one still here. The others found its rules too confusing, the interface too poor, and were taken aback at people buying votes for themselves without any regard for quality.

Proud member of #powerhousecreatives

I think they've already made that decision. Their white paper doesn't say anything about rewarding quality content. It uses the phrase "add value." That's a convenient euphemism for unpopular methods of interaction on the blockchain that may not have anything to do with content creation. If you take a look, you'll find accounts that have hundreds of thousands, or millions, of STEEM and/or SP but that have no created posts. These are the financiers of the blockchain. In many cases, they delegate to other accounts (perhaps some they own) and fund initiatives that appear to benefit the blockchain. It would not surprise me to see Steem transition to a Dapp-development platform and for Steemit to disappear completely. It's already almost there. Steemit was intended to be the blockchain's first Dapp to illustrate what is possible for other Dapp developers. It's done that. Now, it's usefulness to the corporation has overextended itself. Now that it's proven it can take on a life of its own, they should let it. Unfortunately, they do not.

Kudos for your experiment and reporting the results in such a detailed way! I had suspected some of this, but never did such a test. This is a fantastic post! 👍

Thank you. I'm glad you got something out of it.

Really good post @blockurator

Comprehensive and easy to follow. I have never used a bidbot because I have a suspicious nature and it seems to go against everything that Steemit should be about. Adding quality to the blockchain and convincing the mainstream that it is the future of social media platforms.

The longer things have gone on the more I an entertaining the idea of using them. I am nervous every time I put in a post with some effort behind it that it's just going to bomb. My run of curie posts have dried up too. I've looked at steembot tracker a few times and decided against it but your post has made me move a step closer to going for it.

It does worry me that the trending page does not reflect well or positively promote Steemit to new users. I have some really close friends who are perfect for Steemit. She is an illustrator and he is a photographer and their work would really add some value. I was getting there in my quest to recruit them; in fact they have signed up but have never used the account, but Vanessa took one look at the trending page and said that it is full of garbage and that she wouldn't be posting her stuff there! Can't argue with that observation even though I know different. This is damaging to our growth.

I am torn. On one hand my selfish view is to 'get mine' and on the other it is to hate the 'free market' because all that does is force the drone workers down by the elite putting their foot on our heads

I appreciate your post though and thanks for your efforts.

Gaz

Gaz, excellent comment. I wouldn't blame you if you decided to join the crowd. The worst that can happen is that good content actually makes its way on the trending page, even if paid for to get there. Right now, it's mostly garbage, as your friend says. And that's why a lot of people won't stick around Steemit. Unfortunately.

My view is this: Despite the "garbage," there is still a lot of opportunity here. It isn't dead. It may be an uphill battle if you're here only for the social networking, or for the rewards, but where else can you go to earn one iota of similar rewards for doing what you're likely going to do anyway? Very few sites offer payment for writers to create the content they enjoy creating. Steemit is a leader in that regard.

I've been playing around on another, however. Have you heard of Narrative? Based on the NEO blockchain. It launches into beta on April 2, 2019. There's no fee to join. I'd recommend joining and watching for a few days before you start creating. See what's going on, who the early adopters are, and what they're doing. Post some posts to your personal journal. You can buy a niche as an investment, but you might want to wait until you are familiar enough with the platform to be comfortable. My hope is that it will become a real contender.

Hey @blockurator

Thanks for your compliments.

I still have faith that steem and steemit will be a success and will continue to believe. I will hold off on bidbots for now but I do think it is inevitable that I will eventually try.

I remember your post (i think it was yours) a while back introducing Narrative and the pros and cons. I was intrigued then and may sign up and see for myself.

Cheers, Gaz

Narrative launches into beta tomorrow. Good time to get on board.

I have new data on the bidbots. Expect a follow-up post.

Excellent. I will be checking that out.

I looked at the bidbots a while ago and came to the conclusion that no matter how much I would make, I wanted no part of it.
I am happy with my $1.06 Stu because I earned it.

You are a unique specimen, @wolfhart. A gentleman, if not a scholar. :-)

I don’t know about all that. What I do know is right and wrong.
Just because you can do something (the code allows it) doesn’t make it right.

What is the essence of a man

@wolfhart,

You are not alone.

Quill

We have our few but most steemians are the same as me. That is what makes us so great.
Its nice being amount many

Great analysis and write up... however, (unless I missed it), you also run the risk with bitbotting of get LESS than your investment, and collecting a hefty negative ROI... so essentially it is gambling, as sometimes people just plonk down a huge bid without checking to see if it is worthwhile or not!

Yes, you're right. It is a gamble. You have to figure out how to bid on them. That's a part of the game. If you bid too high, or you bid when there are a lot of other bidders, then you could get a negative ROI. Someone could come in after you and bid high enough that they take the reward and leave you in the hole. So you have to time it right. It's a big game.

Excellent work!!

I too have been experimenting with these just to see what the fuss is about on a couple of posts, although not quite as ‘controlled’ experiment as you did.

What I’ve noticed more that posting less but ensuring the quality of the post (and yes, spending hours writing it) made more of a difference, attracting votes and resteems from curation teams.

For me the ROI was so minimal and there wasn’t the satisfaction that I was receiving kudos for the work, even if I was receiving meager rewards.

Will certainly be resteem if this, and hopefully many others have a read!!

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Yes, there's nothing social about it at all. That's for sure. Thanks for stopping by.

Good insight into bidbots, never used them since I do not feel it is ethical, nor right, one has to justify profit in utilizing them. To me it relates to a bone being thrown out to a pack of dogs all waiting in the wings to devour it, or each other.

If you so desire to make money online trade between crypto's, another ambition I feel is like walking over burning coals.

I will stick with projects that look to be promising going into the future on blockchain. Gambling has never been something I find comfort in coming from a financial background, too many loop holes as mentioned in comment made by @quill

Very sad to say, after some time here it is evident quality posts are sought out by very few communities, a strong supporter of #qurator and #powerhousecreatives where like minded work together.

Thanks for stopping by. It wouldn't be so bad if the bots didn't take away from the other curators. As I have shown, they create profit for the bot and the bidder, but only at the expense of manual human upvoters.

Exactly the reason I do not support, there are those who are trying to earn an honest living, rather delegate/support people helping each other.

Minimal use of auto upvoting, use some platforms to share content further.

Everyone at the end of the day wishes to earn something! Enjoy reading opinions, discussions, fresh new ideas, this cannot be done via a bot!

Very true. The bidbots also diminish the interaction between participants. You can argue the same thing about curation trails. They might increase rewards, but at the end of the day, they decrease the social interaction.

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