STEEMIT: The "SECRET" to properly summoning randowhale and Whaleshares to MAXIMIZE your ROI!steemCreated with Sketch.

in steemit •  last year

I'll tell you right now, if you're trying to use @randowhale or @officialfuzzy's Whaleshares on your low-payout posts, you're probably just mostly wasting your hard-earned STEEM BUCKS (especially now that randowhale's vote costs 2 SBD). While it may still give your post a boost of several steem dollars, the real way you should be looking to use it, the way you will maximize your Return on Investment (ROI) for the money you spend, is by using it on your older, most VIRAL, and highest paying posts.

For example, while a nice boost from @randowhale on a $10 may jump you to $15 or $20 (or maybe even a bit more if you're really lucky), the same boost when your post is at $200 may boost you to $250 or more! And if you use Whaleshares on top of that, woah, watch out!

Does this "revelation" upset the randowhale? He's assured me that he understands very well how it works (and I don't doubt him), but for some reason he just seems a bit sad in this photo (albeit in a cute way)! Or, perhaps more likely, he's just tired from all the voting he's done the past few days. lol

THE THEORY

The reason for this is a certain algorithmic "vote gravity" that takes place the more voting power you achieve on a post. Sort of like "reputation begets reputation". While this may change somewhat in HF19 (due to the expected arithmetic versus exponential weighting changes), it's the n^2 weight-voting algorithm that really drives this effect. From the HF17 proposal discussing the change from to 1/30 payout scheme to the 7 day payout scheme:

Based upon voting statistics, the vast majority of the 30 day payout comes from votes cast in the first week. We also know that there is little difference between weekly active users and monthly active users, especially among those with meaningful voting influence. It is our belief that authors (and curators) will earn more by a single 7 day (fixed) payout period than the combination of 24 (variable) and 30 day (fixed). A single vote on day 3 is worth much more to the author under this system than a dozen votes on day 3 under the old system due to the N^2 weighting algorithm.

Link: Steem 0.17 Change Proposal Introduction

So you must factor the effects of the n^2 algorithm into your potential "payout". This also means that an additional vote from a whale (such as randowhale or whaleshares) after you've built up a good deal of "vote gravity" after several days will always move the payout by a larger relative amount than the first, given how the current STEEM algorithm determines reward payouts.

Okay, so this may all sound well and good, theoretically. So, instead of getting all anecdotal here, how about we dive into some examples of the differences it can make.

THE EVIDENCE

First off, let's look at @Akrid's recent post where he selected two posts at 0.69 payout for comparison.

Link: randowhale vs. whaleshares: Round 1!
Link: randowhale vs. whaleshares: Round 2!

So, for all intensive purposes, let's say the two posts he selected were mostly balanced, with a relatively balanced weighting of rando and whaleshales. Here were the results:

Round 1

This increased the post payout from $4.10 to $6.70. A wonderful $2.60 for the price of 1 SBD.

This time it increased my post payout from $6.79 to $11.01. Awesome, a $4.22 increase this time!

Round 2

From .69 to 2.38. It's pretty cool that a little minnow like me can make a $1.69 difference using randowhale. However, the 29% vote is not worth the 2SBD that it currently cost.

From .69 to 8.01. WOW I did not expect a $7.32 difference with just 50% from @officialfuzzy for 50 whaleshares.

Now, given the few SBD that were spent, that may seem like a rather decent ROI, but it's still not that great for the risk associated with rando's "random" payouts and the like. And while you may have gotten ahold of some free Whaleshares, is it worth using them up on low payout posts, or is it better to wait for the opportunity to get a much larger "bang for your buck?! So, if you really want a bang for your buck, take this example of where I paid randowhale 1SBD to help give a bit more of a boost to @darthnava's MRI post:

also just sent one in to help @darthnava with his surgery as well! His post jumped another $89, from $10,957 to $11,046!
Wish him the best of luck that all goes smoothly for him!
Link: Fellow Steemers, I Need Help as My MRI Results Are Not Encouraging

randowhale upvote @darthnava/fellow-steemers-i-need-help-as-my-mri-r… (23%)

Now think about that for a moment. I got only a 23% bump for @darthnava's post, yet it bump him up around $89 between before and after refreshes (and that doesn't even consider the additional vote gravity contributed at that new higher level)! But straight off, that's effectively nearly a 50:1 ROI. Imagine how much higher it would have been if I had also gotten him a 79% weighted vote, as I did on two of my own posts!

So, what kind of results did I get on my 2 posts? Well, they were both doing pretty well already, with one showing a payout of around $80, and the other I believe was around $180 at the time.

This post received a 79% upvote from @randowhale thanks to @alexpmorris!

One post jumped from around $180 to $230, and currently stands at over $300. The other jumped from around $80 to $110, and paid out today at nearly $130. Here are the posts so you can see for yourselves. The randowhale even drops by with a comment for you! lol

Link: EOS: What's Your BEST Bang-for-the-Buck Cloud Provider?
Link: Adventures in... How NOT to GET OUT of JURY DUTY!

(steemit epiphany: that moment you realize your steemit post on jury duty, earned triple what you received performing your "civic duty")!

In addition, after I mentioned this to a few more people in the Whaleshares Discord Chat, @nepd tried it on one of his higher payout posts as well. Here was his reaction:

Wow... just tested the whole vote gravity thing
New post with 100% Whaleshare - $16 dollar jump
Old post with $55 already pending, Plus 97% Whaleshare... $51 dollar jump
Holy b%$ls

First post that jumped $16 from around $3 to $19 after a 100% Whaleshare drop:
Padawan Learner (Volume 1): Learn About Star Wars Force Abilities

And here's @nepd's post which jumped from $55 to $106 after a 97% Whaleshare drop:
Five Rings, Two Sons and a Goat: Bill Belichick Is In a Good Spot

CONCLUSION

So, I think you can see that it definitely pays off to further promote your BEST recent posts, as opposed to the weaker ones. Of course, there's always going to be a cutoff as to where that exact "level" is. But the thing is, for the smallest minnows who can least afford it, if you do have some extra SBD you want to put to use, I think you now know the best way to apply it. Summon the whales ONLY on your highest quality posts that have already attracted a good deal of "vote gravity". It's sort of like "pushing the envelope" when you're already "on a roll" with a "hot hand", except ironically enough in thsi case, that's when your risk is potentially at its lowest!

AND FINALLY...

I really don't want to get into a discussion about whether it's right or wrong to use these voting services. There are plenty of others making those sorts of arguments already, and that's really not the purpose of this article. I can, however, refer you to @kyriacos's recent insightful post, "Does It Really Matter How People Make Money on Steemit?"

And I can certainly understand why some would want to consider using these. I'm well aware of the frustration of working long and hard on a post, only to see minimal traction and recognition in return. Just look at many of the earlier posts on my own timeline! All I can say is that with hard work, many high quality posts, and constructive interaction with the community, the rewards will start showing up. For me, using mostly "100% Power Ups" helped me grow faster as well.

For those traders out there, you can think of each post as a stock option. The don't all pay off, but every once in a while, one might pay off big and make it all worth while. The irony is that it's not always the one you worked on the hardest either. Sometimes it's just that short and very inspired post at just the right time that does the trick.

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FYI - It's not a "revelation" for someone who understands how Steem works...like I do....

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That was meant more as a joke, and it seemed to fit with randowhale's apparent slightly sad "disposition". lol

However, I have updated that paragraph to better reflect your wisdom and knowledge, as randowhale deserves nothing but the utmost respect and appreciation. I can only hope you approve!

Perhaps the greatest positive result that's come from this post is how many more fellow steemians seem to have a better understanding of the whole "vote gravity" concept, myself included!

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He talks!?!

LOL, hey, I just blogged about you today and put you to the test. I was happy to find out it worked after the hardfork, even at low SP.

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Of course I talk, I'm a whale.

Thanks for the insightful info! You make me more aware of all the possibilities on Steemit.

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I agree, definitely a helpful article. Something to consider once I build up some steem

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glad you all found the article helpful!

Great post ..
I RAN OUT OF WHALESHARES! Help Help!

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thanks Kurt, I'm glad you found it helpful! Can't help you with the Whaleshares though, I haven't even gotten any myself yet! lol

Thanks for taking the time to put this together @alexpmorris! I see the various "upvote comments" on people's posts and always wonder whether it's worthwhile... this post was insightful.

There's something slightly ironic (self-regulating?) about it, because it's the posts I spent three hours on and end up with $5 for I really want to boost... and the ones that are already past $100 already feel "fairly rewarded."

As for the ethics of it all, I'm out to lunch on that; I guess as long as it isn't damaging the platform I have no objections, regardless of whether I choose to use one of these services.

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Thanks for the comment and kind words! That's what I was saying at the end of the article:

The irony is that it's not always the one you worked on the hardest either. Sometimes it's just that short and very inspired post at just the right time that does the trick.

While there is something a bit "counter-intuitive" about it, reward-wise the goal is really to maximize your average payout per post. So, instead of thinking in terms of a single post being "fairly rewarded", perhaps it's better to think in terms of the best way to fairly reward all your posts, overall!

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That helps to put it more in perspective and why it is worth doing.

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A lot of people are buying upvotes atm. And more so during these down times. It is not a totally useless strategy, but should it be done right now when the SP is so low and the reward pools are so drained?

There is a huge discussion on this thread. Come and give your point of view :)

https://steemit.com/steemit/@yoda1917/randowhale-booster-worldclassplayer-users-just-halt-for-a-moment

Wow that's a great article! Thanks so much for the information <3 Now I start to test it :D

I'm really new here, learning daily and this post really helped. Thanks @alexpmorris

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glad you found it helpful!

Thanks for this information, I'm still very new here so it's nice to find some informational and explanatory posts like this.

I write this comment to find it easier later

You explained all the things very clearly. As I am a newbie here so I was always wondering how does this whaleshares system works, now I know all thelogics behind it. Thanx for sharing.

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thank you , I'm pleased you found it useful!

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Very interesting post, really illuminating. I'm following you buddy :)

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thank you, glad you found it helpful, and thanks for the follow too!

This article by @rubenalexander shows stats from a sampling of 7 randowhale votes over smaller payout posts. While on the payouts and ROI were definitely lower than for posts with higher expected payouts, at least none of the randowhale spends appear to have lost money. You can read more about the "study" here:

Link: STATS FROM MY FIRST @RANDOWHALE PROJECT

My highest posts make $15.
#oneday

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you'll still get a bit of a bump, and it's for you to decide if it's enough to make it worth it versus your spend. but I think you'll still find if you do get a hit of say $50+ and apply it there, you'll be pleasantly surprised by your "return".

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I'm glad I didn't do what I was wanting to. I was going to surprise my newbie friends that just joined. So a dollar would have been five or six but I figured it would pump them up.

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if they did get a nice hit though on their #introduceyourself posts, that would be the ideal place to try using it!

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That's genius.

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A lot of people are buying upvotes atm. And more so during these down times. It is not a totally useless strategy, but should it be done right now when the SP is so low and the reward pools are so drained?

There is a huge discussion on this thread. Come and give your point of view :)

https://steemit.com/steemit/@yoda1917/randowhale-booster-worldclassplayer-users-just-halt-for-a-moment

I need to save this for later when I eventually have a high paying post. Thanks for the detailed analysis.

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Glad you found it helpful! Also be sure to keep an eye on Whaleshares as well!

Link: A Huge Amount of WhaleShares were Just Released to Active Members/Leaders in WhaleShares Discord.

Now that's what I call an informative post. Holy Smokes!

For some reason I thought that if my post didn't do good in the first couple hours, then it was doomed. This changes my approach completely. Thanks!

interesting and helpful post.

thanks for your work. Will see how my posts may benefit.

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thank you, and please feel free to share your experience with it!

Nice post Sir!!

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thank you, I'm glad you found it helpful!

This post has been ranked within the top 25 most undervalued posts in the first half of Jun 10. We estimate that this post is undervalued by $30.41 as compared to a scenario in which every voter had an equal say.

See the full rankings and details in The Daily Tribune: Jun 10 - Part I. You can also read about some of our methodology, data analysis and technical details in our initial post.

If you are the author and would prefer not to receive these comments, simply reply "Stop" to this comment.

good info

Thank you for the very practical tips. Every cent counts and I need to use it wisely. Now I am better informed. Have you compared between randowhale and whaleshares and see which one is a better investment.

I'm trying to buy some whaleshares but I cannot for the life of me figure out how. I open openledger.io and sign in but I don't see whaleshares anywhere and I'm not sure what the sign for them even is. Are they available yet? Also all the links to the Discord channels I'm seeing for whaleshares do not work.

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I just tried the link I had posted above and it worked right off the bat: Whaleshares Discord Chat. Is there a particular error message you're getting? I assume you also signed up for a discord account? I don't believe you can buy Whaleshares yet. For now, you have to either win them in contests or catch @officialfuzzy when he offers some out in the discord chat.

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You're right I tried it just now and it did work....... I tried several links earlier and they all said this invite is expired. Ok now I'm going to figure it out thanks for replying.

Nice Post! Where do I findout how to use whaleshares?

I just tried randowhale. It had 47% Voting Power. But I only got a 9% vote. Which is kind of disappointing. But I'm glad I followed your advice and use a post that was at around $95 (I think or maybe $97) I jumped to $103.69 so I didn't lose anything. But nothing to make me say "Wow!" but as long as I got my money back and then some I'm happy.

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yeah, that's the random part of the vote, and of course being down to 47% voting power takes a bit of toll too. I like to take a break on voting when I get into the low 70s percent! The closer to that I get, I start being more careful with my vote power til it recovers (current, your voting power recovered by 20% each day). But on 100 posts, you should generally be able to at least break even, and the additional gravity can still help any more votes that still come in. Noticed you got a few other around 20% from randowhale. How did you fair on your other "investments"?

Regarding whaleshares, if you come by the Whaleshares Discord Chat and follow @officialfuzzy and @jphenderson (TheWalrus in discord), there are various drops and contests where you can win some whaleshares. Eventually, you'll be able to buy them with BTS on bitshares.

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The other "Investments" did ok also... As long as I don't loose money I'm it's kind of like pulling the arm (actually the have buttons now) on a $2.00 slot machine...lol

Thank you for this posting, This is will remind us how to maximize using @randomwhle. Nice:)

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glad you found it helpful Hanto, but beware it's @randowhale without the "M"!!!

Link: Do NOT Submit Steem/SBD to @randomwhale - it's @randowhale (no m!)

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thank you for this information, I really appreciate it. Nice! :)

Nice post

I followed you. Plz check my posts and upvote them and kindly follow me as i am new on steemit and i need your support as a beginner. Thanks in advance :)

Interesting information! I wasn't aware of how that worked, so thanks for the info!

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glad you found it helpful!

informative post.. though I had a bit of a giggle at the bit about using on posts that made $200 rather than $10. As a newbie..if I had a week of posts that made $200 I don't think I would have been looking at Randowhale or whalesshares lol. What you said makes sense though. I've tried it on a couple of posts - and I made more than my 2 SBD even with the split between SBD and SP so can't complain too much. I'm more interested to see if it drives traffic behavior, particularly on brand new posts. People vote where they see the $$$ going up early. I'm thinking of it as a marketing investment lol

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That's good to hear, at least you came out ahead. Especially early on though, having extra SBDs / STEEM may be more rare as well, which is also why I was suggesting to try and save your bucks for a bigger potential payout.

Regardless, if you decide to keep experimenting with it, I'd be interested to hear how it goes for you.

Regarding driving traffic behavior, I really wouldn't expect that much of a result from that approach, again, unless you're talking real WOW numbers (like in the hundreds or thousands). One of the best ways to drive traffic is probably by engaging the community, adding thoughtful comments and good quality posts.

If you're skeptical, notice that your follow count just bumped up by one more! ;)

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thanks @alexpmorris It's all a bit of a learning curve early on and a bit of an experiment to see what works I guess.

Good to get advice from those who've been there and tried things to try to cut down the learning phase. And I only invest what I can afford to "throw away" so to speak and we are talking minuscule anyway :)

Yes I try to vote where I've learnt something or it is something I'm truly interested in like photography travel and food. And also actually read the posts.

Slowly building up my followers but I'd like to think it is mostly through making connections and having conversations with people. For the most part it is actually a really good community and I am enjoying it. The whale arguments etc are going over my head but I'm sticking to what I love which is just trying to write good content and not too worried about the rest for now.

Following you for more of your advice in the future :)

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thank you, much appreciated! I can tell you that for me, it seemed the hardest part was getting to 50 followers on STEEMIT. It just seemed to take forever (as in nearly 6 months of posting)! After that, it went quite a bit faster. I also vote the same way, and that's what's so cool around here. All types of people from all sorts of backgrounds sharing really interesting things, with posts from trading to programming to politics, then onto baking a sourghdough bread. Pretty kewl bunch of people around here!

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just thought I'd add these few posts by @shayne as well, which also confirm what I've been saying about how best to "build your presence" on steemit:

Link: Steemit Tips: How To Get Popular - Comment And Respond!

Link: New To Steemit? Follow Begging Will DESTROY You: DO - NOT - DO - IT! Here's Why...

Link: The Most Important STEEMIT Success Tip: Forming Relationships

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Thanks so much Alex for taking the extra time, I will have a read through these.

i appreciate the post you linked me too about education. Very much how I feel about the whole thing.

This post was also truly helpful, i will try it out.

Followed you. See you in whaleshares chat :-D

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that's great, very happy you found it interesting. glad you got into the chat as well!

So in other words they're playing us, thanks for the info because i myself was going to invest my steem hmmm.

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I'm not saying that either. I'm just saying you need to calculate out if it's the best use of your funds for your particular case.

The following article shows stats from a sampling of 7 randowhale votes on smaller payout posts. While the payouts and ROI were definitely lower than for posts with higher expected payouts, they appear to have still come out ahead. If you have lots of SBD, maybe that's still enough of a return for you, as opposed to "saving your powder" for a better opportunity. You can read more about the "study" here:

Link: STATS FROM MY FIRST @RANDOWHALE PROJECT

WoW! I wasn't even familiar with this feature - glad I found out about it and how to properly utilize it should the time ever come when a post exceeds $7.30 (that's my record so far 3 weeks in haha) Thank you good sir @alexpmorris ! STEEM On brother !

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very glad you found it helpful @lanceman!

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thank you, glad you found it helpful!

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you are welcome :)

Cool, good suggestions to try, I'll try. Thank you !

Fascinating! And the gif at the end is adorbs...

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yeah, it is really cute isn't it! lol

Thank you very much. Very informative and hopefully it will save a lot of effort time and money I guess of the steemians. Thanks for the share cheers!!

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no problem, I'm happy you found it helpful! and yes, that was my goal. always looking to help fellow steemians maximize their ROI. in the end, it just makes the whole community that much better and stronger!

How do you use whaleshares?

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if you come by the Whaleshares Discord Chat and follow @officialfuzzy, there are various drops and contests where you can win them. Eventually, you'll be able to buy them with BTS on bitshares. For info on @randowhale, you can check out this post: @randowhale Updates! Voting Power Increase

It's such an obvious thought once you mentioned it. Totally makes sense to do it on the one's higher vote/payout posts.

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a bit like trading, ay?! everything's "obvious" in hindsight! lol

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Ain't that the truth!

You are totally right... We should try to boost our best paid posts... But somehow we rather prefer to see all our posts decently payed, rather than one big paid post and a bunch of 0.1 posts...

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well, that's what the upcoming HF19 hard fork seeks to address (somewhat, at least) by changing rewards to be arithmetic versus exponential. it'll be interesting to see how well it'll work, and how much it'll effect these services as well.

Link: Pre-Release: HF19 Linear Rewards!

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Even if they change it to a linear reward scheme, more will always be more... Linear just means that there could be higher rewards faster... When will that HF19 take effect?

Thank you for the insightful post. I don't have the means to use randowhale just yet and I was thinking about that same question, is it right to use it? Honestly if I were to work on a post all day long and not see any traction, it would make me a little salty so I can see randowhale helping with that. It does make sense to use it on higher paying posts though. All and all, I don't think it's bad thing to use. We are all here to make a Dollar and at the same time make friends and enjoy the community. That's the beauty of Steemit and im glad to be here with everyone. Steem on!!!

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glad you found it helpful! at the end of the day, it really boils down to the cost to acquire versus the ROI. if you feel "the juice is worth the squeeze", then go for it! if you're in a position to wait a bit and spend it on a more "viral" post, then all the more power to ya!

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Very true

Thank you so much for this @alexpmorris! I didn't know about rando whale until last night (Iam just almost one-month-old here on steemit). I have a lot to learn. I actually promoted one of my latest posts through @randowhale:

https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@jeanelleybee/credo-token-blockchain-based-spam-and-email-access-solution-pre-ico-ongoing-participate-now

And I think it got a decent boost. :) Comparing it to when I used the promote button On steemit.

I wished I knew these before... But reading your article, I got a new take as to how and when to use these services to maximize the potential returns. Thank you so much for sharing, this is really helpful. Resteeming it so I can have it as reference in the future. :)

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seeing from your current payout with a 77% randowhale vote, yours is another perfect example that confirms the point. I helped you a bit more and added an extra 9 cents. That one cost you nothing but the time it took you to add a relevant comment with another example! ;)

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Yay! Thank you @alexpmorris, so much appreciated! :) This is another learning for me. It pays more to connect and enggage with other steemers here on steemit! ;)

Great..Thinking to spent some my SBD

Awesome post man. You're definitely right that the ROI is much better for higher value.
Now teach me how to get over $1 on a post lol :-p

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many thanks @akrid, and actually I can sort of help you a bit there too, with this older post of mine: 😀

Link: YouTuber's Guide to Re-Monetizing with STEEMIT!

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Nice! Thanks

Hey @alexpmorris, I mentioned this post multiple times today blogging some Steem. I sent people to this how-to and told them to follow you.

Check my recent history and you will see those backlinks and how I proved you.... RIGHT!

Does this still work this way after HF19?

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check out my latest post for how they work post HF19... "Post HF19 Tips & Tricks for RandoWhale, WhaleShares, and BitShares!"

I wonder, in this society we live in today, is it going to be the same here on Steemit as on Facebook, YouTube and maybe other social media platforms, that the most popular posts are the stupid ones like cat videos, pranks, vine videos and the rest of the stupidity that goes on in the world? What could or would prevent it to happen here when Steemit gets more mainstream?

Good read buddy! My highest post made me $0.40! Proud steemian here! :')

A lot of people are buying upvotes atm. And more so during these down times. It is not a totally useless strategy, but should it be done right now when the SP is so low and the reward pools are so drained?

There is a huge discussion on this thread. Come and give your point of view :)

https://steemit.com/steemit/@yoda1917/randowhale-booster-worldclassplayer-users-just-halt-for-a-moment

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thank you @yoda1917 for the comment, left you a reply over there! :)