[STEEMGIG] Riddle Me This: Where are Vests Born? And, When do Vests become Valuable to the Community?
Yes. The time has come to talk about the birth of Vests. While I've been privileged to bump into people who have helped me sort of understand the answer to these questions, I'm not confident I have a complete understanding. So I cannot completely explain it.
So. I will pay 4SBD to whomever can do the following: Locate the formula that determines how many vests are added to the voting pool and how often the vests are added.
STEP1: Locate the formula and allll the variables ("wind from the south at 10knots", for example) and copy and paste it into a comment on this post
STEP2: Locate an active Steemit Witness who will be a witness that your answer is correct by upvoting your comment (not this post)
STEP3: The Witness must also leave a link to official Steemit, inc documentation that explains the formula and all the details, in their own comment.
In the mean time, while we wait, feel free to leave a link to something you would like for me to read. Preface the link with the words "Here, hold my yunk drink."
Also, if some brave souls do return with an answer and they follow all steps involved, feel free to throw extra SBD or STEEM or puka beeds straight at the deserving souls.
Thank you
Enjoy
Have fun
UPDATE: I'm paying @deanlogic based on dogged persistence.
It's an ongoing discussion at this point. Drill down for the good stuff.
Well, the first problem is that you are looking at VESTS wrong. VESTS Are your inVESTments in the system. Your shares of STEEM. Like owning stock in a company.
As more STEEM is created, older shares/VESTS held as Steem POWER are worth more, increasing your VESTS. You can see how many VESTS you have earned here: https://steemdb.com/@marillaanne
Steem POWER determines what share of the rewards you get, among other calculations. Your power is represented as the size of fish your are. Here is my article that talks about what the different power levels are.
Bone Fish, Minnow, Dolphin, Orca, Whale. How do I get there?
The Rewards Pool filled with STEEM at a rate around 48,029 per day.
TIL: How much STEEM is added to the reward pool per day?
Depending on the state of the Rewards Pool is and other factors, you are rewarded with STEEM as either Steem Backed Dollars (SBD) and/or Steem POWER.
If you are wondering about rewards, Witness @clayop created this article 5 months ago. Brief Explanation and Discussion about New Reward System
There is a STEEMit Wiki, I am not sure how much it is updated.
Thank you for your reply.
It is incorrect and,
also, it did not follow the parameters set in my directions.
STEEM is a convenient representation of vests in the reward pool.
A post's value expressed as STEEM value fluctuates during the entire 7 day process even if there was only one vote on the post.
The post's share of vests (rshares) does not fluctuate except as directly impacted by the number (and weight) of votes cast.
Please feel free to try again.
The Witness @dragosroua who upvoted my comment seemed to think it was okay.
Since I didn't believe that VESTs were created and that it was STEEM being added to the Rewards Pool, then I didn't bother with the other steps.
If you know what the answer is, then why didn't you just write an article explaining the answer and then ask some witnesses to review your article?
because I still don't have the formula for vests.
which means you still can adjust fire and come out even further ahead
And further, I reserve the right to be entirely misinformed about what the rshare is a portion of.
BUT this is the reason I am requiring a link to Steemit,inc produced documentation. I'm bloody hell tired of, "well, according to this person over here ... who got a formula from somewhere ... "
Fair enough.
I would assume the Steem White Paper is where things started, but the formula may have changed when implemented. Since that would make 1,152,000 STEEM per day. That is not the case. I doubt you will find a formula on how fast the blockchain creates STEEM in the Rewards Pool from Steemit, inc (ie Ned).
@dragosroua made a post about the Rewards Pool after HF16, where he estimates that the blockchain makes around 46,000 STEEM per day for the Rewards Pool Which is close to the 48,029 estimated calculated in the link I provided above.
If we go by the white paper, we owe it to all post writers to upvote our own comments.
Further we owe it to everyone who votes on our posts and comments (together known as our created content), to never vote first on our on our content BUT to vote last, last and always ... most especially as our weight increases.
Based on the White Paper, I'm guessing that's how all the Whales were made at the start and then they reduced the flow in one of the Hard Forks.
oh and I'm not especially looking for documentation from Ned. however, every IT company documents changes in an official manner.
Where does that exist for Steemit?
GitHub is where they are sharing the updates.
https://github.com/steemit/steem
It isn't very easy to navigate to determine things.
oh my word! I'm currently headache impaired. Largely from looking at this discussion and the links you've provided and the links I've found and ... I've lost the reply attempts twice ... due to headache brain.
I found a very interesting set of articles that should help with the shares ... I think, maybe. They're in my history. I'll find them again tomorrow.
While the distribution methodologies may have changed from the white papers, there's distribution philosophies that most likely have not changed.
I'm more than a little frustrated with the narrow mindedness of the "don't self upvote" religion. Yes.
And I'm running out of hope for the HennyPennys of Steemit who are convinced the sky is falling. No? The swamp is draining? Oh yeah! They're convinced the reward pool can be drained empty.
Moreover, they totally don't get how not self upvoting is failing to be generous and falling to generate STEEM and falling to improve the value of STEEM.
If you're confused, go back and slowly read the last @dragosroua article you linked to. He rushed the ending. But he's made several of the links. https://steemit.com/steemit/@dragosroua/why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-draining-the-reward-pool
And more ... well tomorrow's another day.
At this point, I'm inclined to transfer the 4SBD to you just based on your determination.
The problem is, while I may not be entirely correct, neither are you.
There is very definitely lingo issues. And perspective issues.
And opaque documentation issues are working against us all.
If you're not opposed, I'd like to continue tomorrow.
I am interested in this too I would like to see who can answer this :) Since vest are still a mystery for me. let's learn more each day.
Sira, thank you for all your support! It's nice to make your acquaintance! Happily following you around, now.
Ouch my head hurts. I'll have to take this to my wall, get a stiff drink and read it again.
I thought vests were pretty simple? Not that I wear them these days ;)
don't miss the rest of the discussion
Feel free to jump into anything at all that interests you. I would imagine the "triple jeopardy" (not what they call it and I don't know if there's only 3) layers of complication built into upvoting process in the white paper might be something you could expound on kind of easily ... considering you've read it ... like what 8 times now? lol
have fun ttyl
Only 4 times lol and it became clear that it was complex haha!
LOL
I would be ecstatic to have company trying to get through the documentation. I finally got the link and my immediate thought was, "Do I really want to read documentation notes written by programmers?" ... My hope is that somehow they've improved through the years.
Personally I've always been fond of vests and boleros too. Not that I have ... oh I do have one little jacket-vest for winter.
And for pete's sake if you write posts about this drop links all over these discussions blocks.
I will have a look at it again and see if I can convert it into plain English but don't hold your breath as the white paper has been superseded several times so who knows what the latest iteration is? If I find something I let you know.
thanks bunches!
Restart :
Well, from what I thought I understood was that the system just generated STEEM into the pool at an ongoing rate. Since I couldn't figure out how to be a miner to create the STEEM, then I had to assume that there is only 1 real miner and that is the system.
Then, the question comes up, is STEEM just a ponzi scheme? Where the early users got all the big rewards and are trying to get the new users to vote them up so they can cash out big before it all crashes.
So, my curiosity is, if STEEM is a ponzi scheme, is it worth it for me to continue to create articles or do I just try to play the came.
If STEEM isn't a ponzi scheme and the rewards pool drained heavily after HF19, what would happen if the pool did actually drain completely?
If it drained and then they just added 1 million new STEEM as a lark, then I would think it would devalue STEEM and nobody would trade it. Which would be back to me wasting my time here, unless I could cash out before the whole thing collapsed.
But, if some how I had a better understanding of how it all worked and understood what was the best way for everyone to act, then I could start spreading the word and try to convert everyone into doing what would be best for all in the system.
well I know some of these answers. let me see ... I think I'll make individual answers so we can track things out a little better.
we will have to work on documenting sources but let's get some overview out and done.
We are all currently "mining". The STEEM blockchains are every move we make ... just like in the song lol ... they'll be watching you. every word, every transaction. And every image and ... every move we on the apps. because the apps are built on top of the steem databases and probably more that I don't understand.
so every post, comment, vote, etc etc generates STEEM.
so being good bloggers and visitors who comment is HUGE impact. Without us working the economy doesn't grow. BUT it doesn't shrink either. Minnows could stop coming in tomorrow and all the current minnows could stop working. And all that would technically change is that there would be a fewer number of tokens for a fewer number of active people.
I mean think about it. If we don't work, we're just not generating income for ourselves. That doesn't mean a whale can no longer create STEEM or that the whale would have less STEEM
But, if that were the case, then as the number of posts increase, so should the amount going into the Rewards Pool, but it is constant compared to the increase in posts. The fluctuation of the STEEM seems to be affected more by the price than by the numbers of posts.
This is where we need the white paper and a diagram I keep seeing floating around in my head. I keep thinking it was in one of the posts you linked to.
I'm sure some searching will pull up more than one wisecracker that attempts to explain this.
A ponzee scheme requires that new money be brought in all the time. And it has to be enough money to support the lifestyles of the rich and famous who got there first.
Frankly, I have yet to meet even a small dolphin who is interested in my .03 100% upvote. Frankly, not even a true minnow cares that much about my upvote on the post.
There's only 2 kinds of people who really love my upvote. Like really realy love, appreciate and benefit.
The first is a person who has a lower reputation than I do.
The second is a person who has like less than $2 on their post. The ones that really benefit are the ones that have no commenters, less than $1 and are lower in reputation.
They are the ones whe really appreciate my company.
When it comes to the dolphins and whales, I'm just so much noise in the middle of so much noise. most of the time.
If the post topic is one that my years on planet earth bring an advantage to, then maybe my comment is heard by the dolphin. But certainly my .03 and my upvote in the middle of 100's means nada.
Again, If all us minows stopped contributing. The system goes on without us.
There would be fewer STEEM but there's fewer people expecting STEEM. And the people that are still in the system can just gear up and make a little more STEEM, if they need it.
So, no. Steemit is not going to die off like a ponzee scheme.
There is money flowing in as some large fish have been encouraging little fish to buy into the system. Because they tell them that they need to build up their SteemPOWER to be a whale like them. Also, by bringing in a larger community, it makes the value of the cryptocurrency grow.
I just read an article about how anyone could start a crypto, because the code is open source. The issue is creating a community in order for the crypto to grow.
If you look at those who joined last year, you will see that their first posts earn $1000+ So, all of those people who first joined have the most and then they get the most because they have higher VESTs. If they can get STEEM to break $5, then they will be swimming in some real value.
There was a huge power down that happened when STEEM hit $2 early this year. And that's about the time everyone was saying it was a Ponzi scheme, because the founders and the small percentage of early adopters had the majority of the STEEM.
I know I said I wasn't going to touch Steemit today but I can't stand leaving you in such a dither.
Make a list of all the things that would happen to you over the next year if you brought in 500USD today and powered it all up.
Ideally you will start by diagraming out how you will bring STEEM in when you use your 500 USD to buy a tradeable currency to "create" STEEM ... ;-) EDIT {This step is optional as it no longer makes sense to me. I'm going for coffee now}
Then list out all of the following. ..
How would you profit/benefit?
How would other people around you profit/benefit?
How much of that powered up money would you immediately or eventually transfer to a whale?
How much would you lose to annual Steemit membership fees? ;-)
What would happen to you if your STEEM became 5x more valuable?
What would it take for you to lose your 500USD in the process?
If you get stuck listing off your profits, benefits, fees, expenses, and risks, find some minnows who did power up enough to become whales or even dolphins and see how their power-ups are affecting them really. I do know at least one of each does exist.
Since this is happening so much, surely you can find some newbies that skipped the painful red fish stage and interview them.
I look forward to hearing what you discover.
$500 investment in steem
Pros
Cons
The big fish that got in early, got all their Steem for free. They didn't pay into the system, they all upvoted each other $1000 or more each article. The instantly had the ability to adjust their upvote. They were able to make $50, $100, $500 per upvote on their own post, while only upvoing other posts small amounts. Small fish trying to curate increase the big fishes already big upvotes. The big fish get richer quicker, while it takes the small fish longer and longer to make any money.
Look at https://steemwhales.com/ The first page shows you that most Whales are inactive. Click through the pages and see how many are powering down. When you get to #100, you'll find someone powering down, who currently has 175k SP and has made 50+million in post rewards and 7+million in curation rewards. You'll see that person not keeping any STEEM, just transferring it out into another system, which others have called a scam and if any small fish try to post that other method, they get their posts flagged. Things like that make you wonder about the system.