Steem Experiment: @whatsup Burn Steem Post #1

in #steem3 years ago (edited)

* free stock picture slightly edited.


@smooth has a successful campaign going to burn Steem.  Only the price of SBD is above the peg, so he actually isn't burning anything.  You can see his post here, and the rules here.  These posts are doing quite well and starting to get to the trending page.

What he IS doing is locking up Steem and making a promise to not reintroduce that Steem into the economy.   My interpretation is he is taking Steem off of the market, and locking it up in an attempt to combat inflation and 'Abuse'.  By selling the SBD for Steem he may also be helping to hold the price of SBD down while creating demand for Steem.  One issue I have with this plan is the Steem pulled out of the reward pool and locked away is harmful to actual end-users that are not scamming/abusive.

I have an alternative plan.  

I also sell SBD and buy Steem and am actively growing my account, or locking up the Steem.  In addition, I buy votes, spreading the SBD around in our own economy.  I support Authors, Content Creators, New Platforms and the Steem Economy.  I manually curate with both flags and upvotes and I comment and engage.

I suggest you upvote my posts instead.  

A loved Steem is a happy Steem.  Instead of sitting in an account lonely and waiting to be exchanged and burnt, each Steem that ends up in my hands will be loved, cherished and held.  The SteemPower will be used to engage in the community and earn more Steem to lock-up.  Meanwhile, I will be helping interesting content to get an upvote and flagging some Spam and Abuse each day.  I am providing these important services already, so if you are going to throw you vote somewhere, I suggest to give it to me instead.  (Disclaimer - It doesn't have to be me, it can be any active user who manually curates, flags and holds.)

In Conclusion: 

I have respect for @smooth and he knows more about crypto than I do.  He has always been blunt, honest and intelligent in any exchange I've had with him.  In my opinion his intentions are upfront and good.  I would just rather see the effort and energy go into building a demand for Steem rather than burning it.  I hold no bad feelings regarding his efforts and support his right to use his voice and his stake exactly how he wants to.

I am also unvoting any witnesses that are upvoting those posts.  Let's build an economy with value and create a healthy distribution instead of burning Steem.

@whatsup


Edited to add smooth's most recent rules and an update.

https://steemit.com/steem/@smooth/burn-post-experiment-one-week-review-and-rules-update


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@whatsup,
Better add another decimal place and burn (current steem supply/10) and raise the current block time by 10
SP will be added to that plan too! I don't know how to implement! But this is the only solution that I can figure out!

Cheers~

Until the STEEM is burned, it is being used to downvote some of the cases of abuse. This is helping to fight against users who are receiving rewards without adding value. Even though it will eventually be burned, I feel that it is a beneficial use of the rewards pool in the current environment.

@timcliff,

I thought about this last night and today, and decided I was wrong. While I still do not support the burnpost, my witness vote is based on all the things you do well. One disagreement doesn't justify not appreciating the good you bring.

It was kind of controlling and petty. I know my vote doesn't make the difference, but in holding myself accountable I wanted to apologize, I'm sorry.

I am not pround of that moment. :)

No worries at all. It is actually something that more people should be doing more often. Witnesses should be held accountable to their decisions. I’m glad that you are taking a wider view than just the one particular issue, but I definitely understand where you are coming from, and wouldn’t have “held it against you” if it was a deal breaker for your vote.

Anytime something like this comes up, I think long and hard on why I am making the decision I am. Sometimes I realize that what I’m doing is wrong and reverse my position on the issue. Other times the best I can do is explain why I’m doing, and hope the other person understands.

I’m glad I was able to keep your vote. It is one of the ones I consider very important :)

Give it to me!!! :) lol

Understood and I respect both your opinion and Smooth's. I just disagree.

New STEEM into the ecosystem just dilutes the value of the existing STEEM. By locking it up, @smooth is reducing that dilution, which protects the value of our holdings and also increases the value of rewards that other authors receive in SP relative to SBD (which can be quickly dumped). The point of the 50/50 split was to invest authors in the long -term health of the Steem block-chain, and that incentive is badly broken when SBDs are worth $3+.

Also, as another commenter already noted, the "burned" SP is presently being delegated to spam-fighting efforts.

Finally, it's not either/or. We can vote to protect our stake's value, and also vote to support authors who we think add value to the ecosystem.

I may rethink my votes if the SBD peg ever gets restored, but under present circumstances, I support @smooth's strategy.

If the SBD peg is restored, then the approach taken by @burnpost will adjust accordingly.I did receive a suggestion to not burn the SP immediately since it could continue to be used for anti-abuse and potentially helping the SBD should fall out of alignment again, and I'm considering that, but for now the rule is immediate power down and burn if/when SBD peg is restored.

To be clear, I absolutely do not doubt your motives or intent.

Yeah, I get why some feel it is justified. I've had mixed feelings for a while.

Maybe if we had a better distribution the economy of steem wouldn't be so funky. I support as I stated smooth's right to decide to handle things in this way.

I would just rather try to change how the platform is functioning by rewarding good behavior and punishing bad actors. I am interested in a broader distribution by any means. I don't think buyers are going to be a problem for long.

I still don't get why we need Steem and SBDs when 1 currency will do.
And why create it to burn it, just don't make it in the first place...

If we only had steem and rewards were only in steem we'd be screwed with a 7 percent inflation rate. I think if sbd goes down to $1 we will also be in trouble.

lol, I hear ya. I think the idea was that SBDs were going to be a stable token to use as a currency and Steem was more to power up accounts, trade and store value. As you can plainly see they forgot to factor in that not everyone reads the white paper and the peg only works up, not down. :) Traders and the Markets do whatever they want. :) hahaha.

Part of the fun of an experiment.

This plan wasn't very well thought out.

Short term reward manipulation aside this plan is actually going to increase the problem it is attempting to address even though that problem might not even exist to begin with.

For some reason the premise here is that rewards are too high in value and that this is incentivizing abuse. On face value that premise is absurd and no analysis supporting it has been shown but I will continue to use the premise to highlight how bad the plan is.

The solution to reduce the immediate payouts is to lower the current amount of funds going out and also burns them thereby taking them out of circulation and limiting the supply.

You are now burning supply which will increase prices as long as demand remains steady. If the prices go up then the value of rewards goes up and you've accomplished absolutely nothing. The incentive to abuse remains according to the premise.

You are in effect trying to hobble the market differentiating value proposition that you see as incentivizing abuse but is also the biggest reason for success, new user signups, user engagement and market demand. It is what incentivizes the whole platform.

This is a perfect example of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Haha, I don't think you understood the post, nor got the humor involved.

Interesting concept... Seems like locking it up as Steem Power is good enough seeing that it gets it off the market... Is @smooth showing the TXID for their coin burns?

I believe he will. In order to not inflate the price of SBD he has to wait until SBD is at the peg or below, to burn anything. At this point he is selling it and powering up the account.

They are added as a reply to each top level @burnpost post, posted soon after they pay out (a week after the original post). Look here: https://steemit.com/@burnpost/comments

As @whatsup stated in the other reply, under the stated rules, the coins are powered up for now, designated for burning later (with the SP used only for anti-spam downvoting until then). The funds will never reenter circulation.

His experiment has no impact on the global steem market, it's a very small fraction of the total supply. I have also seen many people who oppose him.

For me the important thing is that this decentralized platform allows you to do what you want with your sbd and steem.

huh Interesting that you are deciding to do this now because I discovered smooth's project yesterday and had a nice conversation with him on the comments.

It certainly sounds smarter to use the steem to support projects and authors rather than just burning it away or locking it up forever.

I mentioned to sneak a while back that I thought posts that decline rewards should have the effect of burning those rewards (rather than excluding them from the post).

While he found the idea interesting, he felt it was trumped by the need to distribute Steem as widely as possible.

Will be interesting to see how this experiment pans out...

Hi whatsup,

He might be holding Steem for a long long term appreciation by locking up?

Your ways is needed also to spread out the $ in Steemit economy system.

I upvoted because I expect this to help with the peg. I also agree that it's a better way to spend rewards that were gained by "policing" as any stakeholder already has incentive to police the system without taking additional rewards that certain "policing" steemians (not necessarily whales but generally funded by them) are claiming to require as incentive.

The only problem with this I see is that it is not a long term solution. It will reduce the value of the short term gains from the abuse mainly due to the decrease in the value of SBD. But even when SBD is of lower value this abuse continues and reduces faith in the success of the network. In contrast to the funding that goes towards policing, at least this isn't a cost to the network, and so I applaud you for that. Unfortunately it's not a solution for the cost, only an alternative. I guess the hope would be that those with the SP to police the network would choose this alternative.

I'm sorry smooth. But this is a horrible Idea. There are people in 3rd world countries that are working hard here on steem to earn enough to make a living. And here we go burning this money. Like it's nothing.

Now a more interesting idea would be to, not burn the money, but take the money, put it into an account as steem power. Then a project can be made where that SP is delegated to various groups on the platform that can help out those in places that need it.

That steem is power that can be used in a positive way to help people.

Let's not waste a chance to pay it forward.

'Burning money' in an algorithmically controlled money supply doesn't work the same way as burning money in general (where 'the Fed' will just print more). In a system like STEEM, buying and burning contributes directly to an increase in value to all stakeholders. It is quite similar to paying dividends.

When there are a surplus of most excellent contributions adding value to Steem then I'll be more than happy to see the rewards going there. But when the rewards are largely being redirected to bidbots and other vote-purchasing schemes, cookie cutter garbage pushed to Trending by purchased votes, etc. then I'd say paying 'dividends' to the entire population of stakeholders (which includes YOU, even if you don't run a bidbot or sell your vote) is better. Along with other benefits of @burnpost such as helping strengthen the SBD peg as well as fighting spam, of course.

I'll reiterate (as I've stated in some of my other comments and posts) that I don't mean to imply there aren't some, even many most excellent contributions being posted. However, I strongly believe that even with a good amount of burning, voters can decide to reward those contributions, though they may need to exercise a bit more selectivity and care in their voting to do so (which would be good).

I really did not know what the Burning steem was going, now that I read it I see that it is generating a speculation.

I prefer to grow naturally.

This post, with over $50.00 in bidbot payouts, has received votes from the following:

booster payout in the amount of $41 STU, $72 USD.
appreciator payout in the amount of $20 STU, $36 USD.

For a total calculated bidbot upvote value of $61 STU, $108 USD before curation, with approx. $15 USD curation being earned by the bidbots.

This information is being presented in the interest of transparency on our platform @whatsup and is by no means a judgement of your work.

I like that you now include STU. That is awesome!!! :) Can you include the money spent as well? That would be cool. I am always curious about the ROI's.

People have asked for this, but of course it is outside the scope of the project to create P/L statements. There are also MANY factors that can make it less than accurate including bids from multiple accounts and refunded bids from the bots.

Help stop plagiarism on Steem.

I hate to post apropos of nothing, but I'm following @transparencybot around because I'm hoping a "cause bot" won't complain and can believe in the following plagiarism cause:

Since the original post is about Steemit creators, I felt this would be a good place to point out @manashjyoti has been plagiarizing Andy Weir's novel "The Martian". He's already made 3 posts featuring the beginning of the novel:

The Martian Part 1
The Martian Part 2
The Martian Part 3

I've flagged them, but I don't have any juice to make an impact. If anyone would like to flag and/or comment on one or more of the above posts. You'd be helping the community. Thanks.

Interesting post. I also love steem. but only have 0.4 steem

There is a .02 earnings threshold FYI.

This comment has received a 0.92 % upvote from @speedvoter thanks to: @mysearchisover.

burning could be really good just like binance coin it has some major growth

This post has received a 21.63 % upvote from @booster thanks to: @whatsup.

that's not perfect. hopefully steemit be the best ..

What a fine idea! thanks for sharing

Hy @whatsup I am the regular reader I have upvoted you and commented you
i read your posts daily

thanks for share next post

that's great to share..
amazing concept