Currently accounts must have 75 SP to use all of their voting power.

in #steem3 years ago (edited)

Update: note that the patch to 20.4 has at least temporarily eased this problem for existing users. It's unclear what the long-term intent of the developers is, however.

And that's if they do nothing else. Just fifty votes over five days will drain their RC completely.

This is not improving with time; yesterday the number was 50 SP.

As basic functionality of the blockchain remains unavailable to the majority of accounts, and this situation does not appear likely to improve, at this time I consider a roll back to version 19 the most palatable option.

Currently:
Stake required per vote per day: 7.5 SP.
Stake required per post or comment per day: 40.5 SP.

This is not close to functional.

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Everything about this update, including its implementation, has been a sick, sad joke. Everything should be fully tested beforehand, not "let's push this untested, broken code, slap together an untested, broken patch after everything grinds to a halt, then wait a week watching the untested parameters make everything progressively worse before considering slapping together yet another untested, likely broken patch."

to damn high.jpg

steemit_antisocial (1).png

I actually wonder what course they have for setting parameters. I agree if they do nothing else, this looks pretty bad (given i've seen costs even go up in the last day). I wanted to spend some time studying how these parameters adjust by themselves too, because I'm not sure.

Even the dynamic updates I'm not even sure what constitutes 'working properly'. I would like to see a dashboard of all the relevant metrics. Maybe they already have such a thing internally. But I don't think a roll back to 19 is happening. I think instead they would rather tweak parameters. Because the system itself seems to be somewhat functional.

It looks semi-functional because the other bug is keeping people from voting. If voting was happening normally we'd be in big, big trouble already. Waiting is only likely to make it worse.

@holger80 has the code for what determines RCs in his latest post.

Oh I saw that, and I dug through that as well. I understand now the costing, but not the market dynamics part of the code. I was going to save that for today.

But still, I still think they would prefer to adjust the parameters to set prices in reasonable ranges rather than roll back. (after making estimates of tx sizes and such and such...because as you say, the current traffic is misleading)

We're where we are now because of what they preferred.

Well slightly more functional now

Posting from this account because my @netuoso account is so far beyond useless it's not funny. Wish I could give you a vote on this post because you are absolutely correct.

At this rate, @netuoso will be unable to transact, in any form, for about ~14 years.

No worries, because @wehmoen has me beat, requiring 287 years to regenerate his RC.

Not sure how things are supposed to work with RC, but my guess is this is not it.

At least they still let you sign blocks. Are you allowed to change your witness settings, or does that take RC?

Looks like claiming discounted accounts made things explode for you, and actually creating them even worse for @wehmoen. That system also looks completely impractical for anyone to use.

Literally cannot do ANY transaction.

Wait, why is your RC so low? Didn't you get debt forgiveness?

And nothing's fuckin' workin'!!!

One question I have about the patch, that i have not run across yet is where is the unlimited editing capability? Since that was most a user function did they decide not to include it after saying they would?

Also I am still going to try and vote on content because I do not fully understand how the reward pool works but if haejin and kingscrown are self voting then voting must be an important thing to do right now.

my understanding is this ability would still have to be implemented on a front end for a typical user to be able to take advantage without doing it from cli

There is still timcliff's condenser site to use, but was still surprised they did not implement it. At least until tim takes it away I can still edit old accounts.

I just wrote a post about this and the one comment I got (from one of my few readers who can comment these days) was that this is temporary. The cost of RCs for various functions is still being factored. The intention is to increase the activity allowed planktons on the platform, but give them the ability to trade off different actions, knowing how much RC each takes.

@steemitblog claimed that. They've offered no evidence to back it up, and what we're seeing is the reverse - transactions becoming more expensive as volume picks up, which is generally what we would expect.

I imagine I'll be making versions of this post for a few days as the numbers continue to rise.

yes as I have been tracking the same thing it certainly appears that as network activity slowly picks back up, the RC cost per transaction is increasing (which is what you would expect given the statements on how the RC will work on market principles with cost going up as demand/activity goes up). Even at current RC costs, totally not a workable system. I am less concerned about upvotes for small accounts and more for the ability to comment, which is the best way that small accounts can earn. Even a 500 SP account has a ridiculously limited number of comments per day they can leave. Unless something magically changes the RC costs around when equilibrium is reached, I will personally be advocating (as one of the voting stakeholders / operators of the Curie top 20 witness) for a fast patch that removes RC market.

EDIT: I guess with the RC system in particular you don't even have to patch or roll back, Stinc built into HF20 the ability to roll back the RC system and go back to prior bandwidth system. From steemitblog post: ""Due to this uncertainty, we added a 'fail safe' to the code that will enable witnesses to revert from the RC system back to the old bandwidth system if absolutely necessary."

I've been giving it 'til the end of the week to see how it pans out, but I haven't been tracking it. Has it really been getting MORE expensive?!

Agreed. This is ridiculous. Would it be possible to lower the RC price of transactions without rolling back the hardfork?

From @steemitblog post the day before HF20: "Due to this uncertainty, we added a 'fail safe' to the code that will enable witnesses to revert from the RC system back to the old bandwidth system if absolutely necessary."

That explains why my RC seems to be declining rather than building, despite not being very active. I wanted to get the rewards out there from the contest to try and give people a boost through this period, but they are low SP holders for the most part and can't do a thing with it! It feels like steemit has just sent a message to the majority of the users on this platform to say you're not important.

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A rollback should really be on the table right now. Transactions users per hour is down from 12,000 .. 18,000 to 2,000 .. 2,500 right now and the trend upwards is so tiny it might take till 2020 before we would be back at pre HF20 levels. I think even if a rollback implies losing 3 days worth of transactions, the alternative of basically continuing to lock out 85% of the user base is worse.

Ceterum censeo HF20 esse delendam

I agree, new users are going to be pushed away from this, plus they downgraded the SP new users get from 15 - 5, which makes the situation even worse.

Rolling back to HF 19 is probably the best idea as not to cause further damage to community.

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