I got hardforked - and all I got is questions

in steem •  20 days ago

So, I am not going to complain about getting 24 hours off of Steem, it was kind of a relief. Although, I did spend most of my time in chats listening to a lot of complaining. What is a relief is there aren't millions of users on here yet that would be affected by this. I figure that it is better to get these big things sorted out now so that in the future there is less chance of this kind of disruption. At the end of the day though, it is what it is and there is very little that anyone can do about it.

Hardforks aren't a piece of cake of course and there are many areas of weakness. There seems to be some bugs that slipped through the testing net so hopefully everyone has learned and a few more professional testers will be on hand next time round. It is going to be an interesting few days and I am pretty sure @berniesanders is going to have a few choice posts about this.

I am pretty pragmatic about problems on these platforms and generally pretty patient but, I can't speak for everyone here. Some people feel that they are missing out on post earnings when the chain is down but as is often said, it isn't yours util it is in your wallet. Having said that, I have a paid delegation which becomes more expensive when there is downtime but not end of the world stuff.

At a glance:

What I love:

  • 3 second commenting. Yay.
  • Editing old posts! (I can't find this feature) but it would be great for linking series of posts if it existed.
  • I got mad mojo Mana Not sure how it will work but I am glad I no longer have that 27 quadrillion debt of it.
  • Hopefully will cut down on some spam.

There are other things and ike I said, this Hardfork is a slowburner and will affect many things in the months to come with account creation and SMT/Hivemind support.

Buuuuuut questions....

This issue affects everyone equally (aside from those accounts which have not voted in the past 5 days) and once voting power regenerates over the next 5 days, this type of behavior will not present again.

So yesterday @utopian-io was at 20% voting power but now is fully loaded on VP & Mana.

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If it affects everyone equally, what is going on?? I would be interested to see a ranking of vote sizes because there aren't likely to be many close to $193 at the moment.

But then:
@dtube (dapp)
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@smartsteem (bidbot)
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@appreciator (bidbot)
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@steemhunt (dapp)
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@ned (good hair)
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You get the idea. The larger the SP, the faster the regeneration seems to be.

But then, why not
@steemcleaners (app)
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@steempress-io (dapp)
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@busy.pay (busy.org)
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Seems that the system is playing what my grandad would label 'silly buggers' or that there is preferential treatment for some accounts. I understand that how the system would handle this was a a bit of an unknown but what happens later? Do larger accounts still regenerate faster? Can't be. Can it? No. Maybe?

As I said in my positive pre-hardfork post, I am looking forward to finding out all the little tweaks and changes that this Swarm of butterflies will create on the platform and how it will change behaviours of users. I think that in a few days we will know more but it is a lot of fun to play 'spot the difference' here now.

I am really curious what is going to happen when VPs are back to some average and people are posting, commenting and testing the capabilities and limitations of the changes.

Oh yeah... SBD is printing again... SELL! SELL! or pay it to the bidbots because they are among the only accounts on the platform with voting power......

Taraz
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This whole hardfork was poorly tested. I'll withhold my judgement until Sunday evening but I don't think I should be expecting any kind mana problems while commenting, posting and editing as usual. This account has ~2700 SP which should be enough for all of that. I should perhaps take up the habit of spell and grammar checking my posts and comments more carefully before hitting "Post", though, to conserve mana. I'm expecting voting power will behave differently as in both be spent and recharge more quickly.

well, this whale feels beached!
I thought that I was being patient, and was happy that my voting power was back up 49.9% after falling down to 20% yesterday from a single low % upvote. So only 5 minutes ago I refreshed to see if I was above 50% yet, ... AND it suddenly plunged back below 30%.
I have NOT voted at all since yesterday. So much for being patient.

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This might shed some light: https://steemit.com/steem/@steemitblog/update-on-unexpected-voting-power-behavior

It's really a waiting game now. Things will be backed to old days (+ additional features) in about 3-4 days.

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Thanks, yes. I read that blog right from the beginning. But it was VERY confusing. First of all, Steemit Inc said this:

most accounts that have been active will return to their expected voting power equilibrium within one day.

So I hoped to be part of the declared majority that would recover voting power within a day, YET my voting power rose slowly and now it is clear that it will take the full 5 days. Now some places are saying that everybody will take 5 days to restore voting power.
AND while I was waiting patiently and watching it rise all the way to 50%, it dropped suddenly again down to 30% - which no one prepared me for either.
(And since then it has shot back up and down YET again.)

Now that I FINALLY have figured out what to expect (a 5-day recovery) ... I am fine with waiting patiently. But it did waste a lot of my time trying to figure out what the heck was happening and not knowing what to expect.

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I admit that things can get a little jarring unless you follow the announcements and Discord channels closely. Ethereum started with 1/3 of their funds getting stolen and having to do a hard fork resulting in ETH and ETC chains. Look where they stand now. Then check https://blocktivity.info and imagine what STEEM could do.

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I followed all the Steemit announcements, as well as some witness updates on Steemit. But I did not know that there were further updates on Discord (unless you are a Witness.)
Yes, I believe that the long-term future for Steem is very good.

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damn. So, what is going on?? It seems that there are some interesting 'tweaks' happening somewhere.

I just tested powering up 50 SP and it bumped me up almost a percent but i powered up another 50 and it then went up 0.2 of a percent. No rhyme or reason :)

Unfortunately it seems that the active voters are suffering the most.

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yeah -- no rhyme or reason. It makes it extra frustrating.
I don't know if I should just be voting anyways because waiting patiently no longer seems to be working. It's going down no matter what I do it seems.

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I have no idea what you should do, nor what I should do. There is a lot of conflicting information at the moment which isn't helping either.

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Well, now Steemd shows me suddenly back at 52%. I'm glad but still confused about what is going on.

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Just... don't move, don't breath.

I mentioned you in my last post, hope you don't mind. I think that there is a lot of ongoing confusion and I have chatted with a few people who are struggling in various ways and I take it as a good sign about how serious people take this place even though they might react poorly at times. Steem might not have a large community but no one can say it isn't invested, passionate and outspoken :)

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Well, holding my breath didn't work!
My voting power dropped back down again. But I think that the lower number is the right number somehow. At least it correlates to taking the full 5 days to building my voting power back up again.

... SO ... since holding my breath doesn't work anyways, I threw you a bit of a vote on your new post. :)

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Hey @dera123 This is exactly what happened to me and what I was trying to explain in the comment you responded too

I lost 50% of my voting power from one vote. Something is way off and still not working. We should be given automatic full steem power , this is theft of value and a total screw up on the part of this fork

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I lost 50% of my voting power from one vote.

Did you read @steemitblog?

this is theft of value and a total screw up on the part of this fork

This isn't theft of value as essentially, it is what it is and no one has property rights.

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Ok

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This should of been handled much much better. That’s my point

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The blog you site says it was a mistake. Not sure why our acting like I don’t have a point. This blog says as much
https://steemit.com/steem/@steemitblog/update-on-unexpected-voting-power-behavior

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Mistake or not is besides the point and yes, it could have been handled better like most things but, it isn't theft. If they took steem out of your wallet then it would be but, not having access to the pool isn't. Not saying t is great as there is a difference experience for some users but, such is life.

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I’ll have to agree to disagree. People who weee saving up voting power lost more then those who had much lower. I stand by what I said. That’s my opinion.

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Love your posts👍
Don’t wannna argue or debate
It’s just my opinion.

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yeah it is all good to disagree. I am actually pretty interested how all of the different people will see this over the next days as obviously there are many perspectives to it. Welcome back any time :)

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You didn't lose 50% with one vote it's that the starting number was wrong because our vp got resettet to 0 and wherever the ppl are looking how much they have is showing a wrong starting number. You should have around 25% atm like most of us right?

Posted using Partiko Android

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So everyone’s went to zero? So people who had 100% from saving up and people who were close to zero all got reset to downside? That’s insane

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You do not want to face the wrath of my bunghole!!

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Bring on the wrathful doom of the bunghole 👃

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This seems to admit it’s a unexpected mistake. Not sure why your acting like I don’t have a point

https://steemit.com/steem/@steemitblog/update-on-unexpected-voting-power-behavior

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Take a look at https://steemit.com/steem/@steemitblog/hf20-update-restoring-continuity

There they listed all bugs/features and for example that our VP got nulled with the HF, that many sites which are showing the VP are confused because now we have mana instead.

But the main problem of the HF is the RC system and because of that I couldn't do shit ... diddn't have enough RC to comment for one day after commenting once. And powering up did not help a bit xD

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Same here. I mean not being able to comment regardless of SP

I challenge @Ned to shave the Steem logo into his head... Then he would actually have good hair.

Posted using Partiko iOS

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He has, but it is only visible when he takes his shirt off.

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No proof, no Steem Logo 😜 Has to be his avatar for 24 hours

Posted using Partiko iOS

There you go :)

https://steemit.com/steem/@therealwolf/some-clarity-on-resource-credits-and-voting-mana

PS: Don't forget that all curation rewards before 15minutes go directly back to the reward pool.

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Thanks, will have a read.

PS: Don't forget that all curation rewards before 15minutes go directly back to the reward pool.

year, bloody Busy. Every time it logs me out it resets the default and the bloody default is to self vote at 0. If you know a dev there can you ask them to flick the default to not self-vote ?

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Try to close all other tabs of Steemit except one and then change it. That should work.

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Will give it a go.

Ok so: @utopian-io

If they vote, they are voting at 24% ? so all the vote value readings on steemworld, steemnow are wrong? that is fair enough if that is the case.

mine for comparison:

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The RC Manabar is for posting, commenting, claiming rewards and voting for witnesses.

The Voting Manabar is for voting.

They forgave all the debt for the RC Manabar so everyone started at 100% (yours has depleted because you've been busily posting and commenting since the debt forgiveness).

The problem is, the voting manabar started at 0% yesterday and is slowly rising - you are just over 20% because it's been about 30 hours since the hardfork and you've probably done just a few votes.

If they'd reset everyone's voting manabar to 100% at the hardfork, they'd have had fewer complaints.

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This is correct. Everyone is basically at 20%-25% even if it says 100%. The old system is now undefined.

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thanks :)
Btw, you were tlaking in a post i haven't finished reading (side-tracked) and mentioned selling RC delegation. @ned mentioned this i think in a 'cryptic' post a couple months back.

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Yes, the voting power display on Steemworld doesn't refresh until an account takes a post-fork action, and then appears to be wrong anyway. (Or at least inconsistent with Steemd.)

If Steemit Inc. wanted to they could instantly refresh the VP of these accounts by undelegating from @misterdelegation and redelegating from @steemit, which has plenty of mana to hand out some big delegations. I think that would be a good idea, but probably a lot of people wouldn't.

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I think that would be a good idea, but probably a lot of people wouldn't.

Yeah it has been mentioned but I am of the mind that it wouldn't. Once it happens, it is always expected to happen and then we are moving in the wrong direction for decentralization.

By the way, I try to add Z for Americans and S for Europeans but sometimes I mess up and mix or forget. Does it effect your reading ability at all to see English spellings? This is just out of curiosity as you are likely someone who might have considered this at some point but likely don't care either way now.

No rush answering, I am off to bed :)

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Half the people I talk to are Canadian, so I'm bilingual in English.

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I will upvote comments later s my VP is rekt.

Do you think they might have powered up? Someone said something about that helping although I wouldnt have thought it would help VP. How very curious?

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Not sure but I can't imagine it doing that.

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No, we simply all have to wait 4 more days.

SBD being available is interesting as the 50%/50% payout is again the better option as converting to STEEM while it is below $1.00 (for most exchanges) is attractive. I think the Resource Credit and MANA additions are pretty good concepts but let’s see how it actually performs as I have concerns for those of us that are actively engaging and what it means for those trying to engage to grow from small and/or starter accounts.

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I think the Resource Credit and MANA additions are pretty good concepts but let’s see how it actually performs as I have concerns for those of us that are actively engaging and what it means for those trying to engage to grow from small and/or starter accounts.

Have you noticed the increased use of the word 'freemium' here? I think what it means is that there is going to be limited access (in some way like posting speed) unless a little steem is bought. unsure if that is real or just my imagination though.

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I have and that concerns me as it may makes sense for existing users but getting started will be very difficult for users from certain regions where part if the reason they are here are to get some basic income. How will they deal with limitations and constraints by these taxes (how I view them partially)?

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You got a 51.49% upvote from @ocdb courtesy of @tarazkp!

My main concern is that I have very little voting power to offer others. I am at under 24 % and will not be full for four days. So I feel sorry for any of my followers. Thanks for your post and your take. Blessings.

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mine is the same so I am trying to let it recover. I was sitting at 50-60 most of the time before and was happy that it got back toward 75 with the break and then.. back to 20 :D