Bring out your dead!

in steem •  2 months ago

Since everyone is using Steemspectacles.com again and throwing up arms as a case for Steem not doing well enough to engage, I thought I would add my 2 cents in also. I actually think that it is pretty healthy looking.

Here is mine:

Steemspectacles looks back 100 posts which for me is, a little over 3 weeks. This means that about 10% of my followers have engaged in some way (vote/comment) on one of my posts in that time. People seem to think that that is something to be worried about but like @denmarkguy mentioned a few weeks ago in regards to on of his old blog spaces, interacting with 2-300 engaged followers is a near full-time job. It really doesn't take too many comments to be overwhelmed and on many days, I spend as much time commenting as writing and I write a lot.

So, in my view, a ten% engagement rate with followers is pretty decent.

Ghost followers are the 90% who don't engage but again, this isn't too much of a problem in my view. For those who are avid consumers of a platform like Youtube, tell me, how many clips do you watch and, how many do you comment on? What about Reddit, Instagram or Facebook? As you scroll through your list, how many do you actually interact with? It is likely much, much lower than you think.

And then, how do you engage? Is it a like, heart, star or is it a comment? Is that comment a well rounded response or, is it a nice pic kind of deal? The way we interact with each other here tends to often be in a more time consuming way then we do in other places, which to me makes sense considering there is opportunity to earn through interaction.

Dead followers. Hmmm. Looks bad. Just think about all of these people who came here and then disappeared. Weeeeeeellll, yes and no. I scrolled through the list quickly and there are a few people who I recognized, were active and disappeared but, these were far, far fewer than the ones who never engaged, hardly posted or are resteem services seems quite high.

One thing that people very rarely factor into the churn rate is just how many accounts are alt accounts that have been started but, have fallen into disuse. Many people have multiple accounts that for whatever reason they intended to use for something but, never really did. They might have lost interest or, their main account took the bulk of their time until the alt just became a burden. The estimate is that there are 60,000 active accounts on the platform and I would suggest that most of those have more than one account themselves.

I have a couple disused myself. The last post on my @taraz account which was meant to be for short form was six months ago. Why? Well, it just wasn't really my thing so I stopped posting there. I might pick it up again one day but right now, it isn't the time.

Then there are all the people who stopped posting because of price drops. It just wasn't worth their time anymore. That is fine too because it leaves a little more in the pool for those who still thought it was worth their time to be here. Of course, there are many who might have come in and just not been able to make it here, that happens too but there seems to be some expectation that everyone will earn and many will earn well.

People compare this place to other typical social media as if it is a good comparison but, it is not because of the money involved. Other platforms that don't pay like Facebook means that everyone makes it, there is no barriers to 'making it' because there is no return for most users. Everyone is a a winner. Or, a loser depending on how you frame it.

Other monetized platforms are likely to suffer the same state as Steem in many ways as those who actually earn highly are a very narrow subset of the actual user base and, those who engage aren't much wider. I don't know what a "Clap" gets you on medium but the lead story on their front page has 1000, the next had 390.

Featured for members (I wasn't signed in and haven't been for 4 years I think).

Quality. Quality?

How many dead users are on Medium? How many users come across articles randomly from medium (shared on FB for example) but don't actually engage? Is engagement on Medium truly any better than here or any other platform or, is it the same 10% of engaged users doing the bulk of the work. Most likely, the Pareto Principle comes into play.

It is interesting to think but look at my numbers.

4968 followers | 4459 ghost | 2095 dead

4459 ghost - 2095 dead = 2364

4968 follower - 2095 dead = 2873

2364/2873 = 82%

So, engagement on the last 100 posts has come from 18% of my followers. Add in the people who engage but don't actually follow me and, Pareto principle seems to be in play. My account here is likely one of the more engaged when it comes to volume but isn't large enough to get all of the trending hanger-ons who follow 50k accounts. I would say that the larger accounts aren't representative because they attract nothing followers who follow fame and trending, not to engage with them though. This pushes up their body count.

@meno is another engaged but younger account with a bit less SP:

3075 followers | 2591 ghost | 1086 dead

2591 ghost - 1086 dead = 1505
3075 followers - 1086 dead = 1989

1505/1989 = 75%

So, engagement for @meno is better than mine at 25% but, he also has less dead followers. What could cause this?

Let's have a look at another engaged account @acidyo, who has an old account, a fair amount of SP and runs @ocd and manually votes. A lot.

25819 followers | 23857 ghost | 14588 dead

23857 ghost | 14588 dead = 9269

25819 followers - 14588 dead = 11231

9269/11231 = 82%

Hmm.. pretty interesting right? So, acidyo and I have the same engagement rate with our followers even though he has a hell of a lot more and earns more and has more SP . @meno performs a little better but, having a younger account hasn't "collected the dead" yet. Don't worry @meno, you will get there one day ;)

The thing is that there are many dead accounts that likely overlap here (@acidyo probably has all the dead of @meno and I combined) and many of them are accounts that were never created to really engage, they never really had a chance of anything other than dying either for their purpose of creation or, the way they were managed.

But, the Pareto principle is important to engagement and the ideas of mass adoption. There are a about 1.2 million registered accounts on Steem but, the estimate is 60,000 active. Take away the alts, the multiples, the batch streams of accounts used to abuse the Steem faucet and create curation bots, what is left. How many individuals have actually signed up for Steem and, how many are left. I would predict that out of the 60k active, 30% are likely nonsense bots or resteemers so, that leaves 40,000. If we estimate that 200,000 real people signed up, that leaves us with 20% of them still active. I can't confirm this of course.

Dead accounts on a platform that many believed they would be able to become rich on because of some Youtuber suting BS is bound to suffer from many dropouts once the actual work volume needed is recognized. The reality of the other platforms when it comes to monetization sets the odds of earning well in favor of Steem as a social platform. But, no one here is going to earn like pewdiepie or whatever that douche's name is. At least not yet. Come 100 dollar Steem though and that might be a very different picture.

The older the account, the more dead it collects. The more SP the account, the more dead it collects. It is pretty obvious why SP attracts those who wind up dead because they have come here to earn and many believe that following SP around is the way that happens. No, engagement is the way that happens, at least for newer users coming on who aren't buying in large amounts.

There is also the Pareto investment problem here. People are worrying about the dead. Don't, worry about the living. Rather than spend time working out why those accounts died, spend time working out why the engaged accounts didn't. It is pretty obvious really because when it comes to survival of humans, connection is where it is at. What that means is that our survival depends on the communities we build and interact with, the relationships we form. The dead accounts for one reason or another have isolated themselves, lost connection and for the vast majority of them, likely never looked for it, let alone worked for it.

At some point perhaps, there will be a great pyre built and in a hardfork, all of the dead accounts will be burned along with whatever SP they may hold. and the system can somewhat reset as well as have a whole lot of cool names returned to the pool of possibility.

For now though, stop investing into dead bodies and instead find live ones that you are willing to engage with and build the kind of relationships with so that they are part of the community instead of becoming wraiths. I would predict though that lots of the dead were never mortal to begin with.

If you don't get the reference of the title, I am a Monty Python fan:

User retention is an important factor of all platforms but in the early days, rarely is the platform suitable for everyone to find a place, it takes a lot of work that many aren't wanting to do. When it comes to a platform that offers rewards and has a proven track record despite content quality, it is going to attract a massive amount of fortune seekers from all over who offer little but expect a lot in return and these types will get disillusioned very quickly.

Yes, there are some people who tried, pushed hard, attempted things and still failed but, this is also par for the course when it comes to platforms and businesses of all kinds. Not everyone can succeed and not everyone will put their effort into the right areas for a chance of success. The best idea that someone might have could fail miserably in the wild no matter how much time, effort and love they put into it. The business world is scattered with the broken bones of lost dreams.

There are a growing number of interfaces, Dapps, initiatives and communities that will improve the retention rate in time as they will lower the barriers to feeling a part of this place, they will open new avenues to interact and, have some SP behind them to reward something to those who take part. All of this takes time and effort to build and, it takes an engaged community willing to do it. I don't spend too much time worrying about the dead as if it is possible, it will be the living who make this place work.

Taraz
[ a Steem original ]

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The 60k active daily users is based on a pretty high bar. A lot of people may only post one or two days a week but are still be pretty active. Actual regular users (who post at least twice a month) would be a lot higher I think.

Posted using Partiko iOS

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I am not sure how they calculate it but @markymark said:

only 33,876 have posted or commented in the last 7 days out of that 1M+ accounts.

Many are bots. could be better but, even if half are bots, 16,000 people can still make a little noise to get the ball rolling ;)

The sum of all those that have died is always going to be larger than those who are currently living.

Clearly the same happens on this thing we call Steem.

The only problem is, the people who are "dead" , or "ghosts" are still out there, for the most part.

I often wonder, if I was to powerdown all my Steem, and keep posting the way that I do currently, would people still come to my blog and interact, comment, and upvote, or am I only getting that engagement because of my larger than average wallet on the platform?

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I often wonder, if I was to powerdown all my Steem, and keep posting the way that I do currently, would people still come to my blog and interact, comment, and upvote, or am I only getting that engagement because of my larger than average wallet on the platform?

it depends. works for many of the early adopters. However, it has also killed many of them as engagement has become important, they are unable to attract and reward comments nor are they able to add value to great posts of new people. Getting a .01 vote from someone who has earned 100k+ in Steem here and has a rep in the 70s is a slap in the face. There are accounts who are averaging 200+ SP a post for 2 years and still aren't engaging. Pity they don't die.

I would be ashamed to power everything out and still be earning here and unable to support others who have supported me in some way.

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Getting a .01 vote from someone who has earned 100k+ in Steem here and has a rep in the 70s is a slap in the face

It is another reason why the reputation system here is so derided :D

In my eyes, we're all just grains of sand. Some might become rocks; others may get eroded by the tides of time.

No matter what happens in the interim, one things for sure - absolutely none of it at all is going to last forever.

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No matter what happens in the interim, one things for sure - absolutely none of it at all is going to last forever.

Yep.

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I think you know the answer to that question. Majority will leave...a few might stay if they really like you

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You'd like to think that at least some of your audience are here to see you create, and not present on the off chance that they might get a cent or two for providing you soe words of encouragement or "nice post, deer,"[sic] which we all often see!

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I loved this comment. Thanks dear. Upvote?

enlightening to say the least my friend... for whatever its worth, when it comes to conversations, i always tell people, the good ones are probably happening on taraz's comment section.

im sure many agree.

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I don't know about good but, there are quite a few interesting ones and in general, they are well conducted and civil which is pleasant for the internet. I think many people including myself learn a lot through sharing here. At least in my head, it has value :)

Engagement regardless of the platform will always be low. The majority of your engagement of followers on Facebook, Twitter, or any other social media platform is typically a small percentage.

Most people are lurkers and we are people with many interests, maybe they followed you for some reason but not every post is that same reason. So even your loyal followers won't engage with every post.

Then you have the fact that people's interests change as do their schedules which reduce engagement, this is a big one as it is very difficult to keep someone's attention for long, you know that phrase "shiny objects", very few can be shiny forever.

Finally, take in the fact that we have over 1M accounts and only 33,876 have posted or commented in the last 7 days out of that 1M+ accounts. I'd say at least half of that is automation, so at best you are looking at around 16,000 active souls here.

For shits and giggles:

7811 - 4573 = 3238
9658 - 4573 = 5085
3238 - 5085 = 63.68%
100% - 63.68% = 36.32%

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36% looks pretty solid to me... right? i mean, maybe a lot of that is our buddy smidge and his alts, but... pretty solid

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Who knows what it really means. I probably have a higher number because spammers like to message me.

In the end, the engagement is so pathetically low I could post a picture of my left big toe on Reddit and have 10x the engagement of my best post. Who knows what would happen if posted my right toe (it's my better toe, winning personality).

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Let's do it... put a picture of just your toe, put a smiley on it... let's see if it moons..

Actually that's the title

Will it moon?

tags

savecryptos toecoin

and you chose the other ones...

do eeet

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very few can be shiny forever.

This is what people need to remember when they are earning well here. Rainy days will arrive.

Finally, take in the fact that we have over 1M accounts and only 33,876 have posted or commented in the last 7 days out of that 1M+ accounts. I'd say at least half of that is automation, so at best you are looking at around 16,000 active souls here.

Yep. However, you don't actually need a lot to make a place work. Like I wrote in the post after this, MySpace is going strong still. Give them an SMT and watch what happens ;)

You have almost twice as many dead followers as I have followers, period. So I think in some sense this is a measure of success. It shows that you've continued to be able to attract people over a long period of time.

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You could also read this in another way, @tarazkp has killed more people than have ever followed some others! :D

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I think that you are going to attract a lot more active follower though because of the way you interact. Of course you will get to an SP point in the next boom and then the 'new dead' (soon to die) will arrive on your stats pages too. I picked up many followers in the peak period but now it is a slow growth again.

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One other interesting thing is that after HF20 with the RC and dust combination, there might be less of the curation streams created as they can't benefit from it. This might result in less dead being created as individual accounts looking to passively earn.

Two things I have learned and learned well.
engagement
Help others

Everything comes of these two items.

The reward is not the greatest nor is it the worst. I have reached the 1000 SP level in 8 months. on sept 6th. I think this is one heck of an achievement. I am not the best here but I am also not the worst.
I started out with no knowledge.

My 1st week and my 1st ever chat room someone changed what I wrote. all I new was that I did not write that smut, but there it was in black and white. I think about that now and laugh my ass off.
I wonder who would do something like that ?????

I never look at my follow list or rep score

I sure do like steemit

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Two things I have learned and learned well.
engagement
Help others
Everything comes of these two items.

This is the base of any strong community isn't it. Being a part of it to help others and in turn, be helped.

I wonder who would do something like that ?????

Some people! :D

I sure do like steemit

It is pretty obvious and I hope that it offers more to you (and others) than just the potential for value. For me, it is a place of many values and is full and expanding every day with interesting places to play.

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I have received more out of this then one can ever imagine. Everyday's a new adventure and learning experience.
It has really helped over the past 2-3 weeks. Even though my time on it has been limited.
Powering up is something I enjoy. And enables me to support others.

No more planes, trains and automobile rides for you! Whew, nice post but I probably spent more time reading this one post then all the post I've read combined tonight.

That stuff happens on my other blog site to. Get near election time and people fly out of the woodwork. Don't ask me where they are come from but they sure want to all of a sudden talk about politics. I am a late night early morning blogger for the most part, there's a handful of us over there, maybe a couple late nighters to blog with, election time rolls around and suddenly it's like nobody can sleep....or so it seems.

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Don't ask me where they are come from but they sure want to all of a sudden talk about politics. I

I think the same thing will happen here in waves. Some will be on price of course as boom attracts those who will go bust a little later. But, on each wave a few more will hold on and keep riding. It will also happen as the platform gains media attention too as that will bring bandwagon waves and again, many will join only to die but a few more will become core users.

At some point, the core will be heavy enough with engagement and SP that it will form its own kind of gravity that will attract and keep a growing number of users. This core will of course be decentralized across the various Dapps, but you get the idea :)

In hindsight it isn't that much of a bother. What is more important is attracting more active users to the platform rather than worry too much over dead accounts

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At this point and likely forever, there is an attrition rate for all new sign ups. Not many who come in will stay but in time, it is possible that everyone can still be a user here, even if they don't look to earn, much like all other platforms.

Yeah I know I have a bunch of dead ones. Some of them I wonder about, but mostly I just work on writing blogs and answering comments instead. There is an old passage in the good book. 'Let the Dead bury the dead' that may be applicable. Good read my friend. Informative.

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I think anyone who is engaging well here is going to have a lot of dead as people come in to an account and then disappear. There is no way to flush the dead fish away at this point unfortunately but in time as the platform grows significantly, I think it will arrive. Plus, I think many will come back at that point too. They might look at their wallets and be surprised at the value growth though and, wish they had never left ;)

What will help the platform and user retention is all those dapps with a lot of delegation in steem powers.

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yep. it will also allow more options for people to find their place and, find other users doing things that they like.

People need to understand this "Not everyone can succeed and not everyone will put their effort into the right areas for a chance of success."they get discouraged and stops working on a platform and then the switches to another one this same thing keeps on happening because every work whether it's job or another income source all of them need only one thing persistence like any plant takes time to flower it's as same as that.

I know when we see repeated failure we lose hope but we should always remember Failure is the stepping stone to success. Always keep yourself motivated that every failure is taking us a step forward in the direction of our goal

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I know when we see repeated failure we lose hope but we should always remember Failure is the stepping stone to success. Always keep yourself motivated that every failure is taking us a step forward in the direction of our goal

And be sensitive, reflective and willing to adjust behaviours and approaches to come into alignment with goals.

I can say that most creators on youtube would kill for these 10% of active followers ^^
On youtube it's 5% and less. But on the other side most youtube views are coming from ppl who are not subscribed

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But on the other side most youtube views are coming from ppl who are not subscribed

Yep. so, why would they engage. They add to the value of the platform though don't they it is just that, most producers will never see any of it.

Hi Taraz. 10 % engagement is about right. You can count all the other ones but the true fact is only 10 percent support you really. I would expect meno to have a few more even though he has a younger account as he would have Helpie as a curation trail on his posts.

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oh muh fren.. helpie never votes for me... my #1 rule i dont break.. check muh posts....

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Had no idea. I suppose it is a good rule and respect that. Look forward to tonight again with the meet.

It's that damn 80-20 thing again! It really does crop up all over the place!

I think meaningful engagement probably is better on here than with other platforms.

Knowing how many views you get would be useful...

I can get 20K views a day on Word Press and 0 comments.

Problem is I can't compare that directly with this since the views counter was removed - I guess it was too laughable seeing £500 payouts for 0 views!

Posted using Partiko Android

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I can get 20K views a day on Word Press and 0 comments.

I wonder how many of the views are crawlers and aggregators?

Problem is I can't compare that directly with this since the views counter was removed - I guess it was too laughable seeing £500 payouts for 0 views!

The view counter was broken and was both gameable and didn't represent anywhere near true numbers. Some showed too many, some far too few.

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Good question... maybe my ad revenue is some kind of indicator of that. Otherwise I dunno.

Thanks for the clarification on the view counter....

I'm half tempted to pursue a career in some aspect of online metrics I find the whole thing fascinating!

Posted using Partiko Android

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I'm half tempted to pursue a career in some aspect of online metrics I find the whole thing fascinating!

This is going to be a very big business on blockchain predict.

I just wanted to say hi, as I'm not sure if I have ever left you any comment. 10% of active followers is a really high number when you compare to any other platform!

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Hei.

I think so. I have never tried to monetize another platform but I am pretty sure it isn't so easy.

Btw, I see that you are in Spain... you got out :D

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I have tried and you do really need minimum 10 000 followers before you are going to see any money rolling in. So no thanks :D

Yeah, I escaped :D Life is not perfect over here either, but I guess this is as good it can get.

There does seem to be a lot of discussion one how we can retain users, but really I think we should be asking why would you want to retain a user who obviously doesn't really want to be here?

If the account is dead, it's dead for a reason. Although I do wonder how many accounts have died because the user forgot to keep their password saved and had to start over. I know of three people who that's happened to and that's only because they happened to tell me.

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I know of three people who that's happened to and that's only because they happened to tell me.

Go into general chat rooms... several daily at least.

why would you want to retain a user who obviously doesn't really want to be here?

i agree. there are many reasons people join too and not all come in prepared for what they find.

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The thought occurs to me that there will also be the dead accounts of those who actually died in reality. It's a bit morbid, but the older the platform gets the more likely that is to happen.

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The thought occurs to me that there will also be the dead accounts of those who actually died in reality.

indeed there are. There are some that are autovoting....

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Does that make it a zombie account?

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lol. perhaps.

Interesting observation, that even dead accounts follow the Pareto's Principle. On a less serious note, smart man Mr. Pareto, so many things in life seem to revolve around his principle.

And now in all seriousness, sometimes inactive people decide to become active again here on Steem. And you start to hear something like "I need to catch up" from them. And that's normal, because they've lost a lot of the developments, so they need to get up to date. What they can't get back is the lost time, and what others accomplished while they were off doing something else.

That's obviously true in everything we do, when we jump from one thing to another, and maybe at some point back, hoping to pick it up where we left off.

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I scrolled through and although most are dust with Steemit delegation, there are a few who have several hundred and a couple with a few thousand. If they do come back at mainstream, they are going to be surprised at what they have there.

If that happens, they will indeed lament the loss of time between.

About 90% of my 5000 followers are 'ghosts' and 44% are 'dead'. I'm happy to have a few hundred engaging with me. That's more than I get on any other platform. I stopped following a lot of people a while ago, so I'm less of a ghost than some

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I stopped following a lot of people a while ago, so I'm less of a ghost than some

This is the other thing, a lot of people follow a lot of people. It creates a lot of ghosts.

Hi @tarazkp!

Your post was upvoted by @steem-ua, new Steem dApp, using UserAuthority for algorithmic post curation!
Your UA account score is currently 6.100 which ranks you at #256 across all Steem accounts.
Your rank has not changed in the last three days.

In our last Algorithmic Curation Round, consisting of 325 contributions, your post is ranked at #11.

Evaluation of your UA score:
  • You've built up a nice network.
  • The readers like your work!
  • Great user engagement! You rock!

Feel free to join our @steem-ua Discord server

To many dead and 👻, how about the living. Can we bring those dead to life? How?

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Let the dead rest.

spectacles is working again? Last time i tried it wouldn't load... :/

"Bring Out Your Dead", "I'm Not Dead Yet" and "It's Only a Flesh Wound" are my favorites from this cult classic.
I will never hear horses running without seeing coconut shells...lol.

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I will never hear horses running without seeing coconut shells...lol.

hahaha.. me either. I hear them when I see pictures of horses running.

Hello,
Well here I am the weekend and selling my wares at a show in Lancaster, PA. It just started raining and all of the good folks disappeared from the walkabout at the antique show that I look forward to three times a year. It kind of makes me think of what steem currently is going through. People only want to walk about when the sun is shining. Meet others and communicate.
The reason I came across your post was the fact that all of the customers at the event went some where else inside. So, i decided to see who is writing and posting good stuff. I normally start with my feed, then go to the new section, finally I will hit the hot section. That is where I found you. I started reading your post with interest and then got sucked in. Very interesting to say the least in regards to who and what are transacting on this blockchain. I also see that there are a number of folks in the comments that I have commented and replied to in a good and no so good way.
I guess that I am one of those folks that have a busy IRL and come on here to read and ponder other peoples problems and or good deeds. Makes me feel good or even bad depending on the mood I am in. Today I am in a not so good mood.
I am one of those accounts that started putting hard hitting well thought out scripted videos about my nomadic lifestyle. I am also one of those that came from having a 30,000 person youtube account. In my experience from that youtube life I had about 100 people that I kept contact with via comment section and or IRL meetings. Ever since I closed my youtube account in early April it has been a uphill battle here on steem. Why you ask? Well first off I do not have a discord or telegram account. Do I want one, not really. Do I need one, it sure seems like I do if I want to make friends and followers on this platform. I do not have a google or facebook or even a Instagram account. Do I want one, no not really.
I realize this comment is all over the place, and I just met you. Think of it like we are at a bar and I am sitting next to you drinking a beverage. We strike up a conversation. I decided to hit the follow button and will start reading your other stuff. With that said do not get bent out of shape if I am not on this platform everyday or even every other day. Social media has never been that way for me. Sorry, just being honest.
My blog post started sincere then went to disrepair and finally just ended up posting stuff I am selling on my ebay account. I am not a writer persae but I do like to read and when I am up to it I will comment.
Thanks for an insightful post, look forward to reading more as a troll and might show my face here and there.
Roberto