Make it 98 percent for the publishersteemCreated with Sketch.

in #steem6 years ago

Bidding bots be gone

Investments do nothing by themselves.

Another proposal

Now let me take a different approach to argue against that strange, in my opinion, 50-50 rewards division suggestion. This I will do by presenting a counter proposal. Set the potential payout to 98% for the publisher and 2% for the curators. And have a slider for the publicist to choose how this 98% will be payed out. From a 100% liquid Steem to a 100% Steem Power, or no payout at all. (Where the 2% curator part also can be done like that.)

This will almost immidiately end the bidding bot services and stop the autovote bots usage at the same time. Or wont they? Well the bidding bot services still could ask a payment for their up-vote service. Autovoting bots might alter their algorithm, but I doubt if they will still be usefull. Now for these kinds of bots a 50-50 divided payout would be a gain too. No need for any human to actually curate personally, just an algorithm digging for a high return on up-votes.

What would the bots do

Bidding bots would still ask a payment from members for an up-vote. Yet they almost would not gain any Steem Power in the proces. (Curators get 2% from the potential payout.)If the up-vote service wanted even more SP, to be more competitive, by offering more up-vote value, then they would need to Power Up more Steem. Other bidding bot services would, so they also have to do so. And more SBD would be traded on the internal market for Steem.

Or these services could ask for delegations, offering part of the profit as a compensation. There are still many possible ways for bidding bot services to stay in business, while publishers would get better rewards. Other kinds of automated up-vote bots will become less usefull. Or the would track the patterns of human curators and vote on which ever predicts the highest gain. Bots are hard to get rid off in any payout division setting.

Investors already get rewarded

In response to my previous post there was the argument that 50-50 should be done because of the investors, those staking Steem Power {SP}. Meaning the potential payout would be divided as 50 percent for the publisher and 50 percent for the curators. While in the current situation the division is set at 75-25. The reason being that curating investors have more skin in the game and should therefore rewarded more.

Well, we are all Stakeholders in the Steem co-operation on the blockchain. For holding Steem Power at Stake we all get dividend. If I remember correctly this is virtually 15% a year. Actually in effect it is more because it gets calculated every block. Seems this effect of a Stake based blockchain like Steem gets overlooked in a discussion about splitting up the reward payout between publisher and curator(s). Investors do not need to do a thing and their Steem Power will still grow.

Curate and get payed

In my proposal the reservation for those who purely curate will be 2%. That is a drop of 23%, when compared to the current situation. While for some members, who have put a lot of SP at stake, this could be a means to get a higher Return On Investment {ROI}. Maybe by offering a bidding bot service. Even with a 2% payout reservation for curators they still can get more out than they gave put in.

Yet Steem was not marketed as 'Curate and get payed' or 'Invest and ROI guaranteed'. And it is perfectly okay to divide the newly created Steem in a few parts, but the most should be for rewarding publications. And if the crap ones get high payouts then maybe curation is getting way too big of a chunck in the deal. On such a scale that automated up-voting systems have become big business.

Publications add value

This is what Steem is all about. Publications that attract attention, not even the subjective 'good' or 'bad' matters. We can have investors and/ or curators discuss all they want, their posts pushed towards trending using bidding bots, but who cares for that? As good as useless when it comes to presenting Steem to the outside world. So, you want to read a fun story, or science fiction, maybe look at some amazing photographs, enjoy art, listen to some new music, watch videos or a combination of all that.

Now investors and curators can support that. Investors would do so in their own interest. Curators also would if they have Steem Power {SP} at Stake. And I think it is safe to assume that we all have, at least some, SP at Stake. Therefore it is in all of our interest that the publications attract attention. That is the economy of which Steem is a part of. Without publishers that gain attraction, adding value to Steem. The whole investment and curating part would be useless. And at a certain moment Steem would become nearly worthless.

Attention attraction economy

We are all members of the Steem stakeholder co-operation on a blockchain. Even if my proposal for a 98 percent for the publisher and 2 percent for the curator(s) payout division would become a reality, curators still get some reward. Maybe automated up-vote systems would become less usefull, would that be bad? And it can be that those members who consider themselves purely investors go for some human curation.

With publishers that attract attention visitors will come. Many just to read, view, listen and watch. That could be interesting for companies to buy Steem so they can use bidding bots to get enough potential payout to get on the trending page. And I am not the first who suggested this idea. No need for advertisement like on traditional media, we have Steem and the page to do a payed for trending page. But Steem needs to give people a reason to come here in the first place.

We are here together

And we are here on our own. Some just need a direct payout, while others can take a risk with putting some of their own skin in as Steem Power. Yet, no matter what, Steem is a platform that needs publishers who are able to attract attention. An investment alone does nothing, not even if there is a dividend payout on the Steem put at Stake. We all have Steem Power, so we all have invested.

For many the SP they vested came forth from putting time and energy into publishing. This is what adds value to the blockchain. Without these publishers Steem would be worthless. Bad news for investors, no need for curators either. The Steem members who publish can be investors and curators too, as most are. Another reason why I think that instead of rewarding curators/investors more, we should reward publishers more. As this benefits all Steemians.

Tough competition

Not only for Steem as a platform versus other platforms, but for publishing Steemians too. As the amount of newly created Steem is about the same and more members enter. While human curators can enjoy what gets published and can appreciate that with an up-vote, they can also reply and earn themselves the full 98%. This even might get better if self-upvoting got removed. It sure would change things around here. More involvement, human interaction, curators having an incentive to reply, showing engagement.

For publishers it will become harder to generate income from publishing. The more members sign up, the more the Steem in the pool will have be cut in smaller reward chuncks. Luckily the Smart Media Tokens {SMT} might just arrive at the right time. Then several kinds of publications can get rewards with a unique SMT token. But publications that attract attention are the most important part of the Steem economy. And these should be rewarded the best.

Or leave it like it is

Moving towards a 98-2 divided payout is quite a drastic move, I know. And I made this article mainly to look at the '50-50' suggestion from a different point of view. And I still think it is a bad idea, because it favors curation over publication and feeds the botnets with SP faster. Or it just takes rewards from the publishers and hands it over to those who view the content. 'Curate and get payed'? Nope, 'Publish and get rewarded'.

Lose the publishers lose the value of Steem. No more attracting attention, losing a share of that economy. Now those who mainly invested in Steem Power wont be happy if this happens. No member of the Steem community would be happy to see their Stake go to waste. We are all in this together. And no, I did not forget the witnesses, because without them this all would not even excist.

Maybe we could have a look at the innitial split of the newly created Steem. 10% to the Witnesses, 20% to the Stakeholders and 70% for rewards. Where I would suggest of that 70% not to go for 50-50, but 2% for the curators and 98 for the publishers. Or we could leave it like it is.

Have great one!


My guess is a good as yours.
3pigs_bucket_truffels_shade12.png
Digital drawing cc-by-sa @oaldamster

Sort:  

ik weet het niet
veel publishers doen maar effortless post
dan wil je niet meer upvoten

ik zei .. eerst gaan wij dat 50/50 proberen
give it a certain period of time - 6 mos?
we'll never know unless we try

#NL Zelf blijf ik dan zeker nog up-voten. Het 'spel' zal wel veranderen. Auto-voting wordt dan zeker minder interessant. Is ook raar. Het gaat dan alleen om zoveel mogelijk Steem te verdienen met up-voten. In het absurde doorgevoerd zouden er dan bots kunnen komen die ook publiceren welke beoordeeld worden door bots die 'kijken' of ze de moeite waard zijn om op te stemmen.

En ik vind die 50-50 echt een erg slecht idee. Daarmee gaan 'curator' systemen heel snel SP mee verdienen. Bezoekers die geen lid zijn verdienen ook niet voor het genieten van publicaties.

Een mens kan ook een beperkt aantal publicaties beoordelen. En 25% aandeel in de payout vind ik al veel teveel. En voor het contrast heb ik een andere stelling ingenomen. Ook om eens te een andere wat-als scenario te bekijken.

En als 50-50 dan geprobeerd wordt, voor half jaar, dan ook 98-2 half jaar proberen. :-)

#EN If publishers get a 98% part and no more self-up-voting, then they depend on delivering publications that will attract attention. So effortless will not be rewarded a lot anymore, at least far less than now.

On the other hand I made quite a lot of publications that took me a lot of effort and got me, well, nada di nada. And that is already with the current 75-25 situation.

Curating is mainly putting an upvote on a publication that was appreciated. Publications are the main thing at Steem, curation can be seen as rewarding a publisher for some great work they've done.

Also curating members will have an incentive to reply, interact as humans, for what they voted for. As that counts as a post, they can earn on that. Real human interaction will reveal itself right away. And those replies can get up-votes.

These curating members then will earn 98% from their reply. This will make auto-vote-bots less interesting to deploy. Also bidding bots cannot earn from replies as they are automated just for up-voting. (They will still exist, but have to make a choice to Power Up the payments they get. As they only make 2% off their up-votes they were payed to make. Or else they will market themselves out of the up-vote game.)

You see, I really gave it a thought and I think the 50-50 is just good for the ones holding a lot of SP and then autovote / bidbot on the best earning posts. From my point of view it will make Steem less interesting for many. Tilting the advantage over to those who mainly have a lot of SP even more. This will lower the value of Steem on the market, I believe. Because less payment for the publishers their effort, so they will find other places who do reward them better. While at Steem there are only posts about Steem? There is a market outside off Steem too... The best rewarding, highest respecting, peaceful and friendly platforms will pull the best publishers in.

The 50-50 idea creates a bias towards large SP holding curators. Why should that even be considered? SP holders already get virtually 15% dividend per year, that is a lot! It is more in reality even, as it is calculated every block and added. Every at least 0.001 SP becomes visibly added.

Publishers are the core of this platform and its fail or succes depends on them. And payout should be valued accordingly, at least, that is how I perceive it. And I would be perfectly okay with it if Witnesses and Stakeholders got a bigger share of the newly created Steem, up front. But I am against taking another 25% away from the potential payout share for the publishers.

And now it feels like I am rewriting my two posts all over again. Hahaha.

ja! dat dacht ik ook .. dat heb je al er boven op geschreven :D
geef niks, ik snap het wel

maar... wat als je ook een curator zelf wordt
ik weet het niet zeker maar ik denk, dit kan ook de mensen met kleiner SP helpen groien als ze vaker op tijd hun upvotes geven vooral aan trending posts, met die system die wij nu hebben ... verdien ze bijna niks
maar ik ben geen expert dus ik weet het niet

als het echt zo is dan is het goed voor ons allemaal
want denk maar even na .. er zijn veel mensen hier die power up en power up en power up aan het doen en hun zelf rijker maken
maar.. de accounts met kleiner sps stoppen al - met posten en upvoten want ze denken ze hebben te weinig invloed dus geen zin

maar als ze ook 50% krijg mischien worden ze wel aangemoedig om door te gaan en mischien nodig ze nog meer mens uit, het is belangrijk dat we elke jaar groei denk ik (population wise)

ik kan me niet voorstellen dat veel mensen de platform gaan verlaten
als wij niet meer groien dan .. gaan dit platform dood
dat is gewoon dat

veel mensen HODLen maar door zonder dat te beseften

oke nu heb je heleboel maar als de mens denken het is een waardeloze cryptocurrency hoe in Godsnaam zou je dat nou gaan verkopen vooral als niemand dat nou willen .. wie zou dat nou willen als ze kunnen alleen maar een paar kopen als ze weten dat degene manier hier om meer te verdienen of ten minste je post aandacht te krijgen is om veel SP te hebben

Wij moeten en balans vinden dat hebben wij niet denk ik
maar ik kan ook fout bent.. wie weet ..

#nl Heb er al veel over nagedacht. Nu wil ik eigenlijk naar bed, hahaha.

We zullen het wel zien hoe het verder gaat.

Loading...

Congratulations! Your post has been selected as a daily Steemit truffle! It is listed on rank 9 of all contributions awarded today. You can find the TOP DAILY TRUFFLE PICKS HERE.

I upvoted your contribution because to my mind your post is at least 10 SBD worth and should receive 131 votes. It's now up to the lovely Steemit community to make this come true.

I am TrufflePig, an Artificial Intelligence Bot that helps minnows and content curators using Machine Learning. If you are curious how I select content, you can find an explanation here!

Have a nice day and sincerely yours,
trufflepig
TrufflePig

Publications add value
This is what Steem is all about. Publications that attract attention, not even the subjective 'good' or 'bad' matters.

It sure feels like everyone forgot that this was the focus in the first place.

Yes, that is basicly the impression that I got lately.

Coin Marketplace

STEEM 0.29
TRX 0.12
JST 0.033
BTC 63697.39
ETH 3145.23
USDT 1.00
SBD 3.83