Why you can't attract upvotes?

in steem •  2 years ago  (edited)

Dear Steemians,

I've been thinking about why there are a lot of good posts around steemit, that you really feel sorry about why didn't they earn more?

Short answer, it's not authors mistakes.

What i am seeing now, the majority of the whales are leasing their steem power to paid upvoting services, or selling upvote directly,

let's face it, upvoting is money giving, and it's money that they can give it to themselves, so why should they hand it over to you?

but how come some posts are getting upvoted?

the way i see it, it's mutual back scratching between whales, and also the ignorant promise of curation rewards, which doesn't worth it.

Why Curation Rewards doesn't worth it?

Simply, because you are getting 25% worth of you upvote in best cases, if you upvoted in the right time, so you can actually get less if you upvoted too early or too late.

Was always this way?

No, it wasn't, as reviewing old posts, people were actually upvoting good contents, no matter how much SP the author have, so they were not looking just for money, it has been a good place for good author.

one of the authors that i really like his contents is @boxmining, he is doing a real hard work and consistent on his posts, and all of his videos are originally his own work, full of information and analyzes about cryptocurrency, exchanges, political impacts on crypto & even advises about new ICOs.

how much dose @boxmining posts makes?

between $4 to $10, while at least in my opinion it worth more or less a $100, I see that his posts comparing to other stupid posts really worth a lot more.

There are many other authors who can easily fit in the same category, but i mentioned this guy because i follow him and check almost everything he posts and i really believe that he is underestimated,

Now what should be done?

i think that a change should be done to Curation rewards, and here is my proposal,
1- The rewards should be 50/50, between author and curators
2- The reward share should be descending under new rule, that can at least grant first upvoters a little better then their Voting worth, and descend with each new vote, for example the first voter receives 100% of his vote worth and 10% of the votes to follow, 2nd voter should receive 90% , 3rd voter 70%, 4th %50, and so on.
3- Another option is lottery curation rewards distribution, that will also attract more voters to upvote good posts, so if a person want to participate in a lottery, why not participate in a lottery by upvoting contents they actually likes

Bottom Line: something needs to be done, steemit is not a place that appreciate good contents anymore, it appreciate ROIs only.

nobody is really winning here

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can not agree. first of all, it is about post quality in massive scenario. most of the posts on steemit are junk. so let me know, but honestly, if you have 100 000 SP which is $10 per upvte and if you upvote your post, you get all rewards. you can do it 10 times a day, so it is 100 bucks a day. why should I give to others? Are you on steemit to blog? or are you here to make some profits? If you want quality blogs, you can find many other web places where people blog for free.
I gave this comment, and will upvote it with my SP. And I think that this is fare and right. I gave mu subjective opinion with explanation.

And some more:

When you say, rewards should be based on post timing with descending structure. who will upvote post with already many upvotes? did you think about that?

when you say 50/50, whales get more benefit, why is it better?

This is my opinion and I never intended to disgrace your post. Just my thoughts and nothing else. :)

Great post and loads of constructive comments here too. The system is really skewed so that the steem rich get richer right now. Sad to see for a social network that set out to do it all differently but goes to show just how hard it is to build REAL equity into any economic system

everything is in the hands of witnesses, they have the power to change it, but we need to convince one of them to adopt a changing project.

so true! something really needs to be done!
i resteem your post

thanks @eyesonsky, i appreciate it

There are lots of ways to address the problem.

  1. Ban bots
  2. recurve the upvote reward structure so that minnows have more upvote reward(ie a .01 upvote is now a .03 upvote) and whales have less
    3)limit the amount you can upvote from one account to another account.
    4)ban self upvoting

and probably the best solution

  1. Start a new site with a SMT that does all this as a competitor to Steemit and let the best turd throwing monkey win.
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Awesome points. I'm not sure if we could end bot use but we could at least deincentivize bot curation. The main problem is having such a large income gap between minnows and whales because the way it is now, even if something could work, it'll only happen if the biggest whales are on board, even if 70-90% of he community disagree with it.

I've heard arguments for keeping self upvoting, none of them are extremely convincing to me.

I think there should be a huge curve on the dollar value ofvoting power, the same as reputation, so you can buy in and get a higher upvote but only to a certain point. It will discourage some people from investing into a ton of steem power but it'll make the whole platform much more sustainable in the long run.

I think bots are one of the few ways new ppl can make money till they take off and keep it worth them staying so not so sure about that one but this is a great post

Banning bots is not an option i suppose, i wish it was.
recurve the upvote rewards seems to be good one, but doesn't solve the problem of selective upvoting
Ban self upvoting seems to be bad to me, because you will loose a lot of investment in steemit, or it won't have an effect, since they can create an alternative account and use it to vote themselves.

Starting a new site with SMT is a good solution, but is SMT already live and running?

I think maybe they should add a non monetary vote. It add more visibility on the feed. Anybody can upvote it and in this case the free upvote is indifferent of the reputation. I mean my upvote is just as good as the best whale outhere. Oh and improve dtube.

It was 50/50 originally.
I agree entirely, it should be changed back

why did they change it, i don't understand

See above.

reviewd the post, but unfortunatly too old to upvote it, consider the upvote of your comment as an upvote of the post.

All good. Thanks mate. I'd love to see it change back.

I'm not sure, I would consider this a fair system. Shouldn't the author be entitled to a larger portion of the reward than the curators, just in principle?

Is this the best and most reliable way of countering the undesirable trend we are seeing right now.

I'm honestly no sure of the correct answer on those questions.

I addressed that in the piece.
I think most authors would rather see 50% of $100 than 75% of $50.

Yep, I read it carefully as soon as you shared the link here, I'm just not convinced that the change of policy could and would double the amounts authors make.

Why was it changed?

Don't know. Perhaps they assumed the author deserved more of the cut than the upvoters. It was just before I arrived.
I've previously suggested moving back to 50/50 as a solution to the self upvoting epidemic.

I think the fact that we are thinking about moving back to something that was previously abandoned is a big red flag and we should consider all the possible ways our suggestions could backfire. Hardfork 19 had some goals and was supposed to remedy some problems and now we are talking about fixing some of the unintended consequences of that.

We're still in beta; I'm confident that the guys smart enough to invent this place are also smart enough to keep it on track:)

Sure. But it's not only about being smart, it's about learning from your mistakes. If we are going to talk about reverting to something that was abandonded in the past, it's of paramount importance to learn why it was abandoned as the problems it was thought to be causing back then might very well reappear with it being introduced back into the system.

This is indeed an issue I'm developing a passion about and this type of thing is something we have seen in the past and I did write about it about two weeks ago - The Cobra Effect. In my opinion, we should not consider any changes before we have spent considerable time and effort on thinking about what could go wrong because of the change we are advocating.

Couldn't agree more.

I think that it would be a mistake to go back to 50/50 since now there is an incentive to create content. The problem is that people are just creating spammy type articles and have other people that are automatically upvoting their posts regardless of what is being said or the effort put into the post. The solution to this really has to be changing the culture on here. As long as there is money involved people will continue to upvote posts that they think will get them paid regardless of content. I know I am following a user who creates 3 posts a day that all seem to get upvoted to a $40 value which are just quick essentially news snipits which don't require a lot of thought.

One solution for the self-voting and trying to give minnows an advantage would be to set a limit to when a user can upvote their own post based on the amount of SP they have: minnows right at posting, dolphins 3 days after posting, sharks 5 days after posting, whales right before voting time runs out. (Or whatever aquatic animal that you identify with.)

This should help to incentivise whales to still create quality content while giving a small advantage to minnows while they are trying to grow their SP and clout.

@rocking-dave and @fechaugger you guys may find these ideas interesting.

That wouldn't help. Between sock puppet accounts, delegation, voting agreements... I went into detail in the article. There's really no other way.

Why I feel the same? A minnow with no wallet power seems to be without power. Although a good content has been posted the result is not that encouraging. Seems we are like a neglected lot. I saw many minnowees posted very good contents that went unnoticed. But there are many senior steemians around who pay attention and who have been very supportive to us the newbies. They gave us words of encouragements and guidance to move up the rank which I appreciate a lot. Thanks @malekalmsaddi. Have resteemed, upvoted and followed you. I believe this post can benefit us the minnowees ☺. See you around!

You feel the same, because it's the fact, and everyone knows it.

thanks so much for upvoting and resteem.

Good post @malekalmsaddi,I have resteemed your post

Thank you

I agree it is sad that there are some who have great content but don't get any traction or resteem nor any votes.
The whales have indeed used their power to get more steem by having it as a paid service which is fundamentally not wrong since there is a dollar amount associated to it.
Then you see selfie posts, or nonsense posts that are getting 20 30 dollars because they are close to whales.
I am glad that I am not the only one that felt this.
Me I merely writing as a cathartic exercise for my depression.
If I get money well and good.
I am glad that

  ·  2 years ago Reveal Comment

i paid for @minnowbooster to get an upvote for this post, just to make it show in the hot section for a while, and guess what? it didn't, it was like the post number 24 in the list.

it's good news that you have found some solution, can you share it?

  ·  2 years ago Reveal Comment

of course, looking forward to see it.

  ·  2 years ago Reveal Comment

Thought provoking and as relatively a newbie i am totally bit confused too..
Thanks too

as reviewing old posts on steemit, it used to be win win for all members, now it's looks like all whales are leasing their steemit power to bots.
in best case scenario they upvote high ranked authors.

i have been in steemit for 3 months, and i posted some good posts, and never got an upvote from a whale, and not only me, i know that there are thousands of users who are having the same experience.

Yes thats so true!!!

yes it is!

I know what you mean. I tried some resteeming services for the first time on my last post and @minnowpond was the best out of the ones I tried. If it weren't for that and a couple good friends my post would've probably stayed at .14 with only a handful of upvotes. (Granted I don't have many followers yet though.) I poured my heart out on that post and I know it was well written.

my point exactly, and even if you have enough followers, trust me, you won't end up getting better rewards, unless if the persons who upvoted you,, sees that you have sufficient Steem Power, so if you return the favor it would be sufficient.

btw, i just visited your post & Congratulations

Thank you!! :)

Great insights! Thanks for the share! Upped and resteemed!

thank you

i try and write original stuff and post interesting topics but i rarely make more than 0.02! :-( feel free to check out my posts, i'd be happy to swap follows with other active users so HIT ME UP, STEEMIANII!
have a chilled saturday,
HA
@humanauction

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Yesterday i saw someone just post a pics of a complain he had on a site , and he had over 100$

While someone like me who takes his whole time to prepare something good can hardly get $1

And most of the whales are not helping
Leaving we minnows stranded

check out his steemit power and payout history, and i will understand why he got the 100$

Yeah i saw it

But he still got lots of upvotes

my point is, the more steem power you have, the more upvotes you get, if you are an active upvoter.
for example if had and upvote worth 1$,
and i upvoted 20 posts of authors who have similar steem power, it's more like they will follow me and upvote me back, (Back Scratching)

True talk.

But we all know minnows dont have high steem power so back scratching wont work with whales

i have noticed the same thing. i love art related post, so most of the time i visit the art tagged post. i have seen someone receiving more than 20-30$ on a post where he shared a art(!), which i wouldn't call an art, because a little kid draw things like that if the kid gets a pen in his hand. on the other hand i saw someone genuine whose art is really good but doesn't receive more than 10 upvotes which is not worth 0.10$..... i am so surprised, how does a scratch of pen gets 30$ and a really beautiful artwork doesn't receive 0.50$..........?

because the upvoting standards are not in favor for good posts, but it's in favor of good ROI

So true!
The culture of appreciating good posts & content needs to come back.

my point exactly

Noticing a problem is the first step for solving it. So it's important that you are bringing this up.

But we should also think about this quite carefully as incentives can easily backfire. Don't forget that this situation was at least partially caused by the latest hardfork which was supposed to incentivize something else.

The most important question to ask before making drastic changes to the way things work, is What could go wrong?. With anything major, there is a lot that could go wrong and backfire and we should think about that.

For instance, would curation lotteries really stimulate whales to curate more? An incentive like that would stimulate people to try to upvote what has been upvoted by whales already, so they get a chance at the large reward while whales would have an incentive to upvote the most unpopular content so they have a higher chance of keeping their curation rewards. Why would whales curate at all in this situation? This lottery would most likely take away their curation rewards and distribute them to other votes. So if whales want a return on their investment into Steem, curation would not be a valuable option anymore, so this would only incentivize self-voting even more as it will become the only real way to create an income based on the Steem Power you hold. In my option, this would by no means be healthy for the Steem ecosystem.

the Lottery points should not be equal between upvoters, each upvoter should get lottery entries equal to the steem power they have, for example:

a user with 100 SP gets one entry
a user with 200 SP gets two entries

i guess that would be a fair chance for all

So why get chance involved then anyway? It will just make curation rewards inconsistent. People with a lot of steem power would still view this as a potential loss while those with little would view it as a potential gain.

Also, if you want it to be fair, you get rid of the lottery. Lotteries are not a great way to be fair.

well, i don't like lottery, and never participated in any, but sounded to me like a good possible way to distribute

Well, I think we should ask if it will bring incentives to people to act in a more desirable way than they are acting now. And I think we should ask that question before we make suggestions.

My opinion is that the lottery is not a good idea at all.

I'm undecided on the 50/50 thing but I have doubts about its fairness too.

wish if there was more democracy on steemit, like a house and congress instead of only witnesses to decide everything

Technically and ideologically, I think the witnesses thing is indeed intended to be a democracy. But I don't see them voting and discussing hardforks and the way hardforks arrive seems to be 100% centralized in practice.

i don't know about that, i don't see all witnesses are in one line, i know that they are in competition to climb up the ladder to earn better blocks rewards.
however, even witnesses voting system isn't fair, it looks like it's all about the SP there too, while i think it should be about numbers, but still it's risky to do that, because a witness can create many fake accounts and vote for himself,
so again, witnesses are controlled by the whales (Steem lobbyists)

it's really confusing, it's a mess and needs to be organized

so true!
I resteem your post

Thank you so much

I dont exactly understand the problem but it has something to do, that the system favors the rich and disadvantages the smaller. But this is a social network and when we want to change something, than we have to do it together since there are much more small fishes than whales. For example we could make a steemprotest. For one day, we don't use steemit. So that the responsibles change the system.
I am sure, you have better ideas. So tell what are your ideas?

I appreciate the endorsment by seeing that i have better Ideas, i am flattered,
however, i do love your idea about protesting, but i can't see how it could be applied,
it's not easy to reach out to minnows if you are not a whale, or you should have a bot to do it for you, and i am not into programming stuff.
the best Idea in my opinion is to reach out for witnesses and see who might adopt the change

True!

Just finally getting a bit of traction on my posts, hopefully all works out!

It is a rough reality I suppose.

  ·  2 years ago (edited)

There is a Steemit fork for Russians. Golos.io.

I am there and here both. So there was an initiative of people who are giving back 50% reward from the users upvotes after the payout. They've done a script to send that payments automatically and a lot of people are using it there now. They just use special tag and special account resteems their posts so people who want to take part in this trail are joining. This is very good for minnows there.

Whale Upvote from @dunsky

this is a good one