Is there a Vote-for-Vote (V4V) app?

in steem •  2 months ago

pexels-photo-853168.jpeg

Here's the perfect app for Steem's current economic model. Does it exist? Maybe in our private Excel spreadsheets that we manually key-in and secretly keep track of. Anyway, it'll surely encourage the accumulation of Steem Power and maybe in the future, V4V tokens as well. The gist of how V4V works:-

  • I activate V4V on my account.

  • V4V keeps track of the votes I get from everyone and reciprocates them. So if you vote on my post at X voting power, the V4V app will help me return the same amount of votes on yours automatically. Should require a minimum threshold voting power to trigger V4V.

  • I can also set multiplier for reciprocation. As a very rough example, if you give me a $1.00 vote, you'd get a $2.00 vote in return if I happen to be setting this multiplier at 2. If I was being much less generous then I'd be setting the multiplier at 0.1, meaning I'd return your $1.00 vote with a $0.10 vote.

  • V4V will award the best V4Vers with V4V points. Let's say if I always return votes by a multiplier of 10 to my voters over time, I'd get more V4V street cred than usual. But of course, there's nothing stopping anyone from not fulfilling their "V4V promise" by deactivating the app, which is why V4V points can also be penalized over time unless the related accounts not reciprocated are blacklisted by trusted sources and algorithms.

  • Maybe do the same for witness votes as well. A Lannister always pays his debts.

  • What are V4V points for? Bragging rights for the most dedicated V4Vers? I dunno, maybe make it an SMT as well in the future then it'll have a purpose or two. Wear V4V like a badge of merit.

  • V4V + services like https://steemauto.com will become the best voting automation suite. Better reason for accumulating Steem Power for the long-term than solutions like bidbots. Similarly content-agnostic. To the moon!

Note: Seriously though, it could be great addition to the Steem ecosystem and should have real demand, like @danielwong mentioned below.


Shameless plug.

I've recently started running as witness. Announcement post here. Please share it out if you dig it. How to vote:-

  1. Go here: https://steemit.com/~witnesses
  2. Look for @kevinwong and vote.
  3. Alternatively, you can vote through Steemconnect here: https://steemconnect.com/sign/account-witness-vote?witness=kevinwong&approve=1

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what if the voter has a trail like me - the app fails ;)

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Lol. Yeah that's why should have a minimum threshold..

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What do yo mean by this? What kind of "trail" do you have?

OMG, the majority of people are taking this seriously!

You proved your point.

Hey, why not just have a whole new coin. . .

V4V coin, the first great SMT smash hit. The coin actually votes for itself every five minutes, and doubles in value. . .

The marketing tag for V4V coin will be: "Money that prints itself. The coin virus that goes viral!"

On second thoughts, please go back in time, and create a sense of humor machine, and distribute it for free to your readers, so that people who read this post can cut loose and have a laugh. :)

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Seriously though, we can use a serious V4V app. It sounds like a joke but I think it could be real useful. Just gotta exercise that entrepreneurial spirit..

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I Made This!!! This App Exists!!

I just finished it several days ago. @kevinwong, please check out my other comment about it below. It's called SteemAX and it kicks ass! It does exactly what you think. Can I chat with you on Discord about it? https://discord.gg/97GKVFC

SteemAX automatically exchanges upvotes between Steemit accounts for an agreed upon ratio and duration.

steemaxlogo.png

https://steemax.trade

It uses SteemConnect to log in for security.

It does exactly what you you're asking for. :))))))

It's already active and has about a dozen users. It needs more! It's in beta release and needs more use so it can be refined.

Check out what I've written about it so far.

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Hi, I took a short look. Seems too "manual" and "calculative". I was thinking of something more passive / in the background.

Ideally, what happens is when I activate V4V mode, my account will automatically return any upvotes made by anyone contained in a filtered set of accounts at ratio X. Don't have to explicitly enter agreement between parties so it operates on the basis of good-faith with no-guarantees (since I'll be able to change the settings / deactivate anytime). Also, if I don't agree to return the support of an account, then I should just be able to decide that on my own without providing any explanations. Everyone's free to do whatever.

As such, the app would then have a list of voters that I can "tick" or "untick" to have my own filtered V4V list of accounts. This design philosophy is much better for user experience, imo. Reputation or the V4V points that I'm talking about can be based on some measurements pertaining the fulfillment of one's explicitly stated V4V policy, but this may be too complex in the beginning or likely not so important after all.

What do you think?

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@kevinwong, I have done even more thinking about your idea and I have realized both its merits and its possible flaw. Your idea works from the top down and provides an excellent way for whales to automatically distribute their large upvote that far exceeds the use of bid bots, so that is a great merit. Unfortunately, your concept does no good for the minnow who only has $0.001 upvote value. Who will they put into this list and what ratio will they exchange it for and how will they attract the attention of a whale to make the exchange? SteemAX provides a way for the minnow to actively seek, by way of invitations, disproportional upvotes that will grant them early support. SteemAX is for minnows AND whales.

How about that? :)

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https://steemax.info/@kevinwong

Seriously though, want to give it a whirl? I've already invited you to exchange upvotes. You just need to accept. I set it to 7 days. I post about 2 to 3 times a day because @artopium does the word of the day. But if you only post once a day then that is the maximum number of exchanges we'll make per day. And the amount you upvote in exchange is a very small percentage of your total value so this exchange so be nothing for you. What do you say? :)

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But how can it if it is jok

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@kevinwong I have just invited you to exchange upvotes with me!

Check your wallet and you'll see this:

kevinwong_invite.png

I noticed that you have a very large upvote (over $10 STU, very impressive). Because my upvote is so much smaller than yours (a measly $0.002) I set the ratio between our upvotes to 0.01:1 which means that if you accept the invite we will exchange upvotes at $0.0022 vs. $0.2222.

If you don't like the terms of the exchange you can barter

Please visit https://steemax.info/@kevinwong to see this exchange invite after you have logged in.

Please read my blog post about how to accept an invite. Because SteemAX does not store SteemConnect tokens that enable funds transfers, in order to send th invite, and for other security reasons, you must accept the invite by sending back 0.001 SBD (the amount I sent you) with the accept code in the memo.

If this is sounding cool to you I could seriously use some help promoting this app once it's out of beta.

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And Why Would This Be A Joke????

This works. It's working.

Obvious bait it's obvious and yet most people are falling for it... I guess in the end a high percentage of steemians would get into vote collusion if they were given the chance. I know you since I got into steemit and I know you are one of the good guys and I know this post comes with a hint of satire.

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Haha thanks, I always make a point to use the funny or satire tag in case..

I guess in the end a high percentage of steemians would get into vote collusion if they were given the chance.

Yup which is why some of us are proposing a re-alignment in economic incentives (with maybe 50% curation rewards, increased downvotes, and moving slightly away from pure linear rewards). If voters get back roughly half their votes given out, there should be way more curation going on and the activity wouldn't be losing out as much to trading away votes.

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I tend to agree with this. Manual curation should be encouraged and increasing curation rewards is one way of doing that. Of course, by selling your vote you get curation rewards also, but the bot operator gets a cut. I have a hunch that there are fence-sitters among the large-SP holders who would manually curate more if the curation rewards were bigger.

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Had me at increased downvotes. So, what factor do you think would be appropriate. I am a big fan of flags so may be too extreme but I would be thrilled at a 2:1 downvote to upvote ratio.

I think that sure as hell would go a long way to clean up the bid botted mess that is trending sea of overvalued shitposts all over the places such as certain whales self voting yt links with nothing added.

#grindsmygears

I think V4V would at least make it more organic the whole bidbots ecosystem. Implementing such an app would at least give another scenario where better opinions can be formed.

I think it would cause whales to engage with content of minnows as well as most of the time it's only happens on the opposite direction.

Anyway how's being a witness going? @bitrocker2020 is my proxy so I'm assuming he voted for you as a witness... haha

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I think V4V would at least make it more organic the whole bidbots ecosystem. Implementing such an app would at least give another scenario where better opinions can be formed.

Perhaps, not a big fan but can see its demand. Could do well for SP.

Anyway how's being a witness going?

Enjoyed the process of learning to setup and secure the server. Other than that haven't done much yet.

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@danielwong I have made this app. It is called SteemAX.

https://steemax.trade

it is released in beta phase of development, but is so far running very smoothly. Please see my other comments to @kevinwong on this post!

This app could get quite confused - I vote for you, you vote for me, I vote for you, you vote for me etc, etc LOL!! I however think it make sense to build up people who support you, the stronger they get, the more worth their vote will be, thus in the end you will benefit more.

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Lol i was thinking if there's gonna be an infinite ping-pong if everyone activates V4V on their account..

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The rules for SteemAX prevent this.

slow clap ... I thought this app already existed or at least is the current method used by most steemians 🤔

Serious question though... why aren’t you using the #comedyopenmic tag on this loveliness? That is a true travesty sir...

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I thought this app already existed or at least is the current method used by most steemians 🤔

Yes, let's automate the app..

Serious question though... why aren’t you using the #comedyopenmic tag on this loveliness? That is a true travesty sir...

Lol thanks, I've updated the already diverse tag..

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Automation is the key to the future afterall..

Yay!! 🙌🏼 Now your tags look perfect 😉

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Hello @llfarms and @kevingwong.. the COM tag summoned me :P ! just to make it an official entry nominate two people to make it a valid entry ;) ... here you have one victim... ahem... nominee... -----> @llfarms... just think of a second one :D ! Cheers!

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Ohhhh I forgot about that part 😬... poor Kevin might not be up to editing his post again... but if so, I do know a grumpy sheep that is overdue for an entry 🤔

I'm on it......

At last, V4Vapid = V4V app ID.

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@v4vapid .. do it.. it's destiny.

This is a good suggestion, but I don't think you're quite going all the way with the efficiency.

I suggest getting rid of the posts altogether, for maximum efficiency:

https://steemit.com/funny/@schattenjaeger/time-to-make-steemit-more-efficient-let-s-just-do-away-with-the-posts-entirely

Would it do follow for follow too? I can see some applications for vote automation, but there's too much as it is. In many cases the post quality is totally irrelevant. I'm sticking with manual voting

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But it is so efficient!

I'm going to make a daily report on the most efficient V4Vers leaderboead.

I really like the idea where I give you a 100% upvote and receive a 100% upvote from you 😁😬

But seriously you have enough SP for this V4V, but if you upvote me with 100% then it would take 2 centuries before I paid you back via V4V. That might be a little fishue 😉

It's hard not to take it seriously when there's just so much of that. P

You deserve to be a witness, from reading your past posts I know you have a good understanding of how money flows through the economy

Well well well. I'm working on a F4V (flag-for-vote) app, where if one user upvotes below a certain customizable threshold (1% / 50% / 100%) the upvote receiver automatically flags the other inversely.

So if someone upvotes on me at 2% I flag them at 98%... I mean, how could this go wrong??

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A massive upgrade already :D

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So this must be the yang to the ying of V4V :p

Well, screw it. I voted you for witness, might as well ride along on your insanity train.

Also, you might want to vote my posts and comments at 100% for a bit. You know, so I will have good votes to give back to you in a few months. Also, you can send me any liquid Steem and SBD that you have available.

Don't worry, I know what I'm doing. I'm in the government employee union.

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you have nice blog i like you 😗😗

@kevinwong that is a good app to use but it might lessen the interaction in this community. People just create a shit post and then they gonna activate that titillating tit for tat app, set some actions to do and then sit back and enjoy the game. Well maybe it will create another circle jerk community.

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This wouldn't happen with SteemAX because you can always cancel the exchange at any point. Sure, there will always be people trying to game the system. But bidbots are totally blind and take bids from anyone. SteemAX solves this problem because humans will likely only support other humans they deem worthy. Spammers will not like SteemAX because each invite requires a captcha.

Please see my other comments about SteemAX on this post. :)

Read my post that explains this further.

Efficient! After all, it's all about efficiency!

Very interesting and innovative....in oneway we are Automating the voting prrventages...kind of Buy1 Get1...👍...need to have one to increase voting activity..👌

Posted using Partiko Android

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Lol buy 1 get 1. adsactly!

Get $2 for $1 vote, are you going to make a bot?

Vote for vote .
Wow thats absolutely amazing, really mate.
It's a great way to keep track of your votes.

Steem’s current economic model... for believers & (stubborn) dreamers. Good to know, Kevin, though vote for vote sounds a tad calculating — meaning it doesn’t take into account quality of what you’re voting for...

Oh well, desperate times, desperate measures!
0D299A8D-4377-4DA2-9457-F87276AD2130.jpeg

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It removes the calculativeness.. to the V4V automaton! Fun will be restored in the land of Steem. Lol what's with the embiggened eyes btw?

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Haha, that’s my slightly dubious face 👀

Looking forward to Fun staging a comeback!

You may motivating a programmer to make it true))He need to learn steem library

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It must be done! I can't believe it's not a thing yet..

Seriously, I been looking for something like this for the longest time. Please let us know if you found one, or decided to build one.

That's the best idea ever. Autovotes are lame but vote for vote would be totally awesome..

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:D been waiting to use this

You had to go there didn't you? :)) You are the steemit version of the daily show :D

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haha which daily show/?

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the daily show with trevor noah - he's jokes are awesome

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Steemit is already a daily show. The Trending page is the front row.

Sounds funny it but it would really be cool. I thought about it before but didn't know how I'd make people participate. Making the V4V token thing totally adds up.

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Yeah it started as a joke.. but..

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But thats how most great ideas often sound until they come to reality

people are taking this seriously!

Interesting idea.
Perhaps you should include a tag UTOPIAN-IO because this tag where the programmers hang out.
Anyways thanks for sharing your ideas

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Thanks for the tag suggestion! But I'm not doing it through their UI so I think it wouldn't work.

V4V would be great initiative. But I haven't big SP for take more rewards from it.

Should require a minimum threshold voting power to trigger V4V.

Have you any idea how much vote power need minimum?

its called a bot legit 100 of these now lol not really beneficial either your not voting good content your just simply returning a vote. I am sure this type of bot will come out shortly after hard fork on the 25th of this month which self votes wont be counted anymore and returned to the pool instead.

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Nothing can stop self votes. I think that's just the timing exploit maybe.

so... totally take out manual curation out of the equation ? atleast with bid bots there is an element of getting flagged for over using it but this may lead to total shitshow.

atleast , in my humble opinion.

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That's the whole point lol

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If you are kidding , you pulled a good one...

If you are not kidding , this is equivalent of spraying petrol on all the steem coins

I think you are kidding

maybe?

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The last person I'd expected to get the joke is you.

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i totally did not gets it...

This is great!. But I don't have enough SP to claim good rewards. But I have reason to vote your every post.

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I dunno why but I felt a bit insulted somehow :p

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Sorry Kevin. I didn't mean in any wrong way. I look out all your blogs. You make great content especially in this blog.

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Haha just pulling your leg @kpreddy!

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Oh! I see......i guess I'm dumb to understand the meanings haha.... Hope to improve my communication and understanding skills.

This is what I want, so I don't bother to vote back while sleeping but we need to use manual curation sometimes for checking spamming and vote hunter

Posted using Partiko Android

While this could be interesting, I don't think it will really be favourable to someone with low Sp, unless the recipient with a higher sp decides to be generous enough to set the multiplier and reciprocate a higher upvote worth.

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Oh people using V4V wouldn't just have their votes locked into the app, it's just to make life easier for the V4Ver.

To the question in your title, my Magic 8-Ball says:

Yes definitely

Hi! I'm a bot, and this answer was posted automatically. Check this post out for more information.

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v4v?

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yes?

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haha! I didn't twig i was inadvertently summoning you off the bat!

So is the vote4vote or v4v the double entendre here :D

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Haha! Is that the yotification at work?

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lol, I couldn't resist ;)

I was legitimately reading your very tongue-and-cheek post - I think it certainly applies to the current model!!

Upvoted and V4V is awaiting your V4V app to bless me with a V4V ;)

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I think V4V with the Bless button is already quite good branding..

You could use minnowbooster, sell your stake for upvotes, use the money generated to upvote your content

Posted using Partiko Android

YES! THIS APP EXISTS!

steemaxlogo.png

https://steemax.trade

Log in through SteemConnect for complete security.

I just released the beta version of this app called SteemAX, which I developed through my other Steemit account @learnelectronics incentivized by Utopina.io. SteemAX is an open-source project which can be seen at https://www.github.com/artolabs/steemax.

SteemAX does exactly what you think it does: it automatically exchanges upvotes between Steemit accounts for an agreed upon ratio and duration.

Please check out the several posts I've written about it so far.

Dude, just take my money already!!

Posted using Partiko Android

You got a 66.73% upvote from @upmewhale courtesy of @kevinwong!

Earn 100% earning payout by delegating SP to @upmewhale. Visit http://www.upmewhale.com for details!

steemit is totally automated now a days rarely few people use it manually

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The one person that gets it. Such a blazing genius.

V4V is great concept. Lets support it as much as we can.

Posted using Partiko Android

Seriously vote 4 vote - no!!!! no way!!!

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It's already in practice. We are just asking for an app to make things easier.

Good idea but is it not change the whole platform.As far as i know
we should vote for content and not for the guy who upvote me. "Maybe my perception is wrong anyways this one is one of the good article i read today" upvoting and following without asking you to do the same :-)

Like aja lah, saya mah mendukung. Selagi ide ini kebaikan untuk stemian

Posted using Partiko Android

I followed you in steemauto and approved you as a witness.

kevinwong witness.PNG

I need help to make my account bigger so your help would be very valuable for me.
Good luck.

Very informative post for those who want to promote their posts.
Thank you.png

You got a 75.54% upvote from @upme thanks to @kevinwong! Send at least 3 SBD or 3 STEEM to get upvote for next round. Delegate STEEM POWER and start earning 100% daily payouts ( no commission ).

A very useful article! : D

Hi kevinwong,

Thank you for your entry in to #comedyopenmic comedy contest. We have asked the judges below to review your entry and give it a funny rating. (They generally have no sense of humor, as the saying goes, those that can't do, start contests and judge).
This will determine your ultimate position when the results are tallied. (That being said, you are free to adopt any position you wish - we can recommend pantsless with beer in hand.)

Judges:

If you have any questions or queries please feel free to contact one of the judges or come say hi in discord: Click Here

Click To Vote @ComedyOpenMic For Witness And Disrupt The Steem Blockchain With Laughter!
Support COM Banner

Thank you to @matytan for the great banner

looks interesting you have my vote XD

that's pretty cool i think V4V will help to grow new user for getting more vote

Vote for vote is a good than bying bot. Atleast peoples will read content and then will decide to vote. In boting system people with money show there dominancy.

Posted using Partiko Android

What about old.steemfollower.com , isn't working like that almost ? They just have other system of points but I think the amount that we give and recieve is the same there as well. But you are right, if it will be a special app that count all votes and give the same amount back will be good, I hope someone will create it in the future.

very good bro....keep it up..............

Your post has been manually curated by the Many Voices Project. The MV Project exists to promote diversity and difference on the blockchain. If you would like to support our work and that of our Founder @sapphic Please consider voting for her witness via steemconnect

Very nice idea @kevinwong, I like the idea of this concept for an app. 👍 Greetings from Berlin and Steem On!

@kevinwong I would love to speak with you more personally about this. I have had some ideas about this for a good while now, and would love to even just discuss with them with you, and perhaps we could put something together if we were so interested. I am in the Discord room if you hang out there, and you may DM me at any time.

Nice to hear it. It will be beneficial for the steemers. Thanks for sharing the experience with all. Wish to use the app.