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RE: Downvote Pool Deep Dive
Under this article one can observe it again: people (whales!) are flagging comments of other users just because they disagree with their opinion!
NOT because of any abuse or over rewarded posts.
As long as you cannot contain this kind a flagging (for example by institute an elected committee with much delegated SP), I am strictly against a pool of free flaggs.
It's not that downvoting doesn't have downsides, they are considerable. It's just that without a modest amount of free downvotes, we don't really have a realistic chance of turning this place around at all.
Currently, we're paying content indifferent voting behavior (self vote, vote selling) 4x more than curation. When we bump curation to 50%, there's still a 2x gap. The modest amount of free downvotes are further designed to bridge that gap.
I'm one of the ones who recommended these specific numbers for the EIP and I can tell you I'm very aware for the adverse effects. Let's say that at any given time, under the EIP they'll be around 5,000,000 SP worth of whales consistently being abusive with their downvotes on purpose. 25% of that is 1.25m SP out there making everyone's lives miserable.
Now look at the flip side, instead of next to nothing, if everything works out, you could have 100m SP worth of upvotes being cast in a relatively honest way that is reflecting their appraisal of the content. And half that money will be finding its way into the pockets of good content creators.
Maybe my numbers are a little optimistic, especially the latter, but overall it seems like a good trade off. We can't focus too much on the negatives alone without looking at the positives.
Thanks for not (yet) flagging me - just kidding. :)
Actually, I like your reply and partly agree with you.
Used in an appropriate way, flags are essential for the success of the community.
'Cheap' posts with huge rewards on tranding are a problem, together with the bid bots.
However, I also know that many users have suffered under unjustified whale flaggs, left (or will leave) the platform and spread that information. Even only just watching 'flag wars' (without being involved themselves) is really deterring for (potential) newbies.
What do you think about my suggestion (if interested you may read more in "My STEEM Vision.") to institute a committee of respected users elected by the community and equipped with sufficient delegated STEEM power, which could be called in such cases of flag abuse and then decide whether the flags were justified or not?
Unjustified whale flags are going to happen with or without free downvotes. Sure, they get a little more juice proportionally, but I don't think of it as breaking (and it's also in fact why the % is not as high as what some people have been pushing for, which is 100%).
The downvote committee can happen today. Don't see what's stopping it. Good luck convincing enough people though. Actually, the downvote committee has a better chance of forming with free downvotes, and funded accordingly.
Crimes will happen with or without police ... Nevertheless I think it's good to have one ...
In my eyes it's already now way too much. I know people who left STEEM because of unjustified (at least in their eyes) flags, and I know people who didn't want to join after observing how people got flagged (often in an automated way) only because they spoke out their opinion.
(Just see how many comments under this article were flagged again ...)
... and I already wrote that I think the 'hybrid solution' would cause less damage than two completely separated pools.
It won't happen if not supported by someone with a huge amount of SP (for example with a delegation of Steemit, Inc.).
Otherwise it's members either wouldn't dare to flag accounts with much SP or didn't care to write here anymore anyway.
I'll go look for your thing, but this isn't two separate pools (since that is yet another idea).
My main point was that the abuse is going to happen anyway. And we need crowd sourced downvotes. Maybe your hybrid has the same problem, maybe not.
Then you might consider a downvote reversal committee as well. We have some of those around even today but could probably have more support.
Edit: oh, in fact that's what you were proposing. I misread the first time sorry :)
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Actually, it's @vandeberg's "hybrid" I am talking about (he is using this term in his article). I think his hybrid solution is better than two separate pools of equal size, but I am still not sure if it will have a positive effect.
No problem at all, I like your constructive way of discussing!
In case you are interested, you may (or have already?) read "My STEEM Vision.", where I illustrated my points of views more extensively. Then, even if you may not agree with every of my suggestions and ideas, at least you understand where I am coming from.
Good to hear about your downvote reversal committee (I didn't know about it, as I am not very often following the Discord discussions because my time is limited, and also English isn't my mother tongue) ... but isn't the problem that without significant SP you (the members of the committee) can become 'whale victims', as well?
Ah it's not mine, and it's not significant enough. Just been watching steem flag rewards and company and they have some upvote countering on a trail. These kind of efforts should be getting more support in general in my opinion.
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