You are viewing a single comment's thread from:
RE: You are all a bunch of cowards!
I've been following the conversation for a while, here's what I think:
Steemit is divided into three groups: those who benefit from upvoting themselves and their friends
Those who hate one above and strive to vote for good content only
Those who have no fucking idea about what is going on
Here's the problem
Those in the first group are very powerful (empowered by steempower) and those who benefit from them wouldn't say a word;
Those in the second group are few and get easily bullied or even silenced;
Those who have no idea stick with the first group hoping to get a cut of the bias likes for themselves
Solution
None in sight
I'm opened to corrections
Make a rewardpool for flags, then it will become a profession to flag bad content. It has been debated before and should be implemented ASAP... the Steem price would go up significantly, like 10-100x!!!
I made a post about it, it is in my blog.
I suggested this 7 months ago. I got flagged for it, and an auto-flag bot was created and funded by Transisto to follow me around and auto downvote all my votes.
Then, Tim Cliff ripped off the idea, right down to ALMOST THE EXACT SAME TITLE, and flagged me repeatedly in that same thread.
This place is a dumpster fire of hypocrites. The problems is not figuring out what to fix, it's getting the cartel to fix it.
When in Rome...
yes that is ridiculous and sad @lexiconical ! @timcliff is an old timer here and its disappointing to hear that he has behaved like this to you ( I always saw him as one of the founding fathers of steemit !!
We really need a way to stop things like this happening.
Thank you for your story...
Any ideas on how strong folks like us can at least benefit the most from this roman system while using it? Cheers @lonestarpoet
Much love and respect for u @lexiconical for still being here. Even after those bigger accounts started to bully u. Respect!
Conceptually that sounds great, but you need to consider the mass amount of automated voting that takes place. Applying that to flagging just seems awful. Randomly distributed flags being thrown around by bots? Eugh.
Abuse would possibly be rampant. It's hard to gauge how this kind of situation should truly be handled.. I'm at a loss myself, but I'm also just a newcomer just starting out the passed week and a half.
It definitely is the system that's the problem, and not the users. People are people and you're not going to change people's underlying flaws.
Everyone always focuses on "how can we make flagging easier and more rewarding" instead of addressing the fact that upvoting good content is not nearly as rewarding as posting the content, and that is a vicious cycle that ends up raping the reward pool as whales game the system, which hurts the majority of those posting good content and takes away the reward for upvoting other people, at least without using something like steemfollower.com to at least get votes back for upvoting other people's content.
Steem Media Tokens are coming, and you can be sure that there will be tokens created to reward people for finding spam and flagging it. That is the solution in my mind, because every other solution I can think of has a loophole, and if you tighten down the system with restrictions, the platform loses it's proverbial soul. If you give people a separate pool for flagging, it will be abused in ways that would be terrible (think racism, bigotry, bullying, etc).
Then the solution for our situation is to make an upper limit for rewards you can have in a day/week/month and there will be no problem
unless someone makes a pile of alt accounts and spreads the reward between them all... yeah loopholes and more loopholes.
I get your point but what can we do about it then? You can't just sit and watch because they are when you think better stealing your money too
Honestly, steemfollower.com uses a model that Steemit itself could adopt on mass scale, and it would solve so many problems with reward pool rape that it's not funny. Not a perfect solution, but as long as people have to game the system to get as much as they give, there will be loopholes that asshats will abuse. I dunno, I think if those able to change the system refuse to, then let the system run its course. Steem won't die, it will simply reach a point where action is necessary. The vast majority of people using Steemit cannot even make a dent against abusers, simply because most of the steem power is controlled by the few, and the few couldn't care less if their holdings dropped to nothing before they could power down... they would just pump the price back up and restart the cycle.
https://steemit.com/@steemflagrewards has been a thing for 41 days. @timcliff helped fund the creation and I am working with a number of talented community members to bring the vision to fruition.
We want it automated and it will be integrated with Discord. We currently planning the implementation of proper accounting such as through a relational database and efficient queries using mongodb/steemdata for downvote metadata and flag comment mentions.
It's not necessarily a reward pool as it depends on post rewards for the flag campaigns being pursued to be distributed to those using their voting power to flag.
We just started a small scale campaign to eliminate rewards on a comment spammer who is abused their delegations.
Besides the top level trending blockchain abusers, there is a LOT of lower order abuse and think this "crowdfunded" flag incentivization system would be a good fit.
The biggest thing I dislike is rewarding flags via SBD transfers doesn't do anything to affect reputation hits that may have been taken due to retaliatory flags. As much as I hate upvote bots, I see this as one possible good use case for one. For instance, in leiu of sending SBD to comp flaggers, instead have maybe dedicated upvote bot (a bid bot would not work due to variability of votes) upvote the flaggers in a comment on the campaign end post.
Anyways, I really want to get the word out because this thing isn't going to hbe effective without community support. I'm not just talking about upvotes either. We need people with ideas that can help this be successfully in address the abuse that falls outside of @steemcleaners scope.
Steemit is a fascinating analysis. I don't generally mind self-voting and voting bots; however there are those smf minutes. My annoyance is blurbs upvoting their remarks on their post and not upvoting the keepers.
Truly, it appears like a considerable measure of the whales know about this issue and are currently attempting to make challenge and ways that advantage the minnows and whales. I do trust soon that there will be more spotlight on innovativeness a varied dynamic groups.
I've generally said that Steemit resembles capitalizim on split.
Those with the influence profit.. furthermore, votes are available to be purchased.. the main thing keeping the basic man going is the "Steemit Dream" of possibly lucking out and making a post that gets a $100.
That being said most online networking stages encounter a similar measure of issues, it's simply more evident on Steemit on the grounds that we have a view into everyons wallet.
@Iamthegray—I can't speak for everyone in the third group (I might just be permanently camped here), but I do not endorse what the first group does (let alone go begging for scraps), nor do I believe the second group "only strives to vote for good content only," unless you include in that flagging/downvoting what they consider to be trash/overvalued, while upvoting and receiving upvotes from their own people to keep the flagging/downvoting going.
Both sides are pulling rewards out of the pool, and while one may or may not be significantly larger than the other, the fact of the matter is, they're both benefiting from it. There's a pretty big principle being destroyed here, all for the sake of winning.
I've been here for just over two weeks. I don't know what the answer is. I don't even know if I fully understand the question. I do understand there's no rules governing self-upvotes or bots, so I'm not sure what people expect others to do? Live by some arbitrary code of conduct you like because you have the power and the will to enforce it?
Sounds like thuggery to me.
Believe me, I don't believe anything here is really worth anywhere near what some of it gets paid, but I also believe the market, when left to its own, will determine value. That's suppose to be an underlying tenet of Steemit, but it's being violated over and over and over again by those who would manipulate it for their own ends and by those who would defend it.
But I'm in the third group, and I'm also a Plankton, so what do I know?
At this point in time, I'm glad Steemit isn't that well known yet. We need to seriously get our act together first, and however that shakes out needs to happen calmly, maturely, and in a way that is fair to all.
Yeah, right. Good luck with that.
But maybe the defining moment for the Steemit community will be the way this actually gets handled, by us, rather than some hard fork solution, or someone else taking the power for themselves. If it doesn't, if the community doesn't ultimately come together to solve this, how's it going to resolve any other tests that come to bear, and how in the world is it going to do it with Steem "to the moon" and all the hundreds of thousands if not millions of new Steemit users that faster account approval is supposed to bring?
I just want to write. I just want to earn something for it. I just want to help others trying to do the same, because it's not happening anywhere else.
There's a lot of good people here, and many of them are found in all three groups. I have to believe that everyone can come together here not just for the greater good, but with a solution that will ultimately benefit everyone. A rising tide lifts all boats. A tsunami wipes them all out. Let the tide rise, and stop courting the tsunami.
The question which outcome you want at the end of the war? letting haejin to continue grow strong is not in our interest. He is already holding 6% of the reward pool as hostage .
What if one day his reserve is equal to 50 %? Will he stop there? What happen if one day he decide to withdraw?
Even if there is a wthdraw limit , the impact will still be great .
Have any of you hear run on bank the before?
Back than when banknote is back by gold , the way to kill a bank is to spread false news and convince the bank is going to fail. Have everyone withdraw money from the bank . The bank will run out of gold to pay back and those late to withdraw left with nothing.
One day if Haejin decide to withdraw all his reward , it will cause panic even if it is just 6 percent. Than all the other wll follow in to cash out. The moment this happen , the price of steem will drop like mad .saying steem because he have convert all to steem .
you decide how you want it to end because there is no admin in steemit .steem it is design in a way to give everyone the power to decide
One flag each day for Haejin is all it take.
Every vote matter , make every 1 cents cost him 2 cents or more to get !!! I done my share by flaging him today .
This post will go entirely for steem power if you want to contribute . All i ask is everyone of you to flag him once per day .
If you want to know why it concern you than read my other post.
Link : https://steemit.com/steemit/@hooiyewlim/up-vote-and-down-vote-with-responsible
Here is my proof that i flag .
Not only that--people will begin to realize the intrinsic value of Steem is gradually diminishing!
If you look at Coinmarketcap, it should give you an idea there are only 4 legitimate businesses in which Steem is being traded out of 7,479 total cryptocurrency markets. Scary shit, right? Steem is not even available on Binance nor Bitfinex--what a fucking joke!
What happens when these 4 exchanges (Lol) decide to de-list Steem/SBD at whim on their list of coins/tokens? Good luck to your play money because even the most desperate drug dealer wouldn't even give a fuck accepting your bogus currency!
This is the reason why I never power-up nor buy Steem from day one of joining this community.
Real talk: Even Dogecoin is far more valuable in terms of utility and liquidity than Steem/SBD. Doge is way stable store of value than Steem and is listed on hundreds--if not thousands of exchanges--and I don't even own Dogecoin but now I'm changing my mind!
I think you should sell your steem and go all in on Doge! Have fun.
Sure thing! I will--the moment the only exchange trading Steem left is Bitshares DEX (Lol). I will then free to fly away without having to worry about my locked Steem Powers.
What a cute dog! I want one like that :)
kbye.
With @haejin's post about SBD and Steem he was even downvoted into oblivion by @dan and @thejohalfiles
I agree that if he continues to grow, the value of steem ultimately drops as people just start cashing out as they see their growth dwindle. I believe Steem Media Tokens will provide a better solution to this problem (like a website where you can downvote haejin and get tokens), but if they don't, I will then start personally worrying.
I like boobs
it appears to be the same problem we have in the us economy with fiat.
Agreed
I've always said that Steemit is like capitalizim on crack.
Those with the power make more and more money.. and votes are for sale.. the only thing keeping the common man going is the "Steemit Dream" of maybe getting lucky and making a post that gets a $100.
That being said most social media platforms experience the same amount of problems, it's just more apparent on Steemit because we have a view into everyons wallet.
Why would anybody upvote themselves (there are so many good posts of other people to vote on). It does not make sense to me.. What do you think about the idea of making it technically impossible for oneself to upvote themselves?
I guess it won't really be a solution because what's stopping people from creating a second account (or asking a friend to do it) and upvote those posts instead?
The ammount of SP they have vested in their first account would stop them from creating a second account. Upvoting with a second account with very little SP in it won't yield them much rewards. Am I wrong?
On the other hand, the could transfer all their SP into this, new second account, purely for the purpose of upvoting and leave none SP on their first account.
Or, what I was thinking, they can just vote for the second account from the first one and they won't need to transfer any SP at all. Or am I missing something?
So they would have to have two account's : one only for upvoting and the other only for publishing content. But that trick is only applicable to people who are posting anything. The trick would not apply to people as myselfa, as I rarely post anything. In simple terms I rather read than write. And the majority of the users may not be publishers..
True, but even comments can be upvoted. Steem is full of spam comments that get upvoted. Anyway, let's hope they come with a solution soon.
You can have as many accounts as like like(you just need to pay the fee for them).
The number of votes matters less than the amount of vests.
Since people with multiple accounts need to split their vests, the amount of influence in the reward pool stays the same.
What fee do you mean? I don't remember paying a fee for my account?
If you signed up through Steemit, your fee is covered. But to create an account from scratch, it costs money.
Is there another way to create an account besides signing up through steemit? I didn't know but I would be very interested because my girlfriend's been trying to get an account for weeks.
You can mine a new Steem account, or pay a service to do it for you.
Steemit essentially mined your account. But didn't charged you for it.
Ah ok, thanks for explaing.
Yes you can buy one from anon steem
Ah so that really works? I was wondering about that
... it is not about bad or good behavior, it is what the system offers: make money by contributing. Money talks is the slogan which hooks people to the platform. I asked myself too, if that problem couldn't be solved technically. No clue.
because there is a financial incentive to upvote yourself. Since your vote is limited -
upvoting yourself or just your friends is always the most profitable.
If there is no intervention implemented to counter this type of abuse of power--a Hard Fork for instance--than I see no reason to hold or buy Steem Power for long-term goal.
EOS is about to launch on June, this year. Expect a separatist group(s) to emerge which will be built on top of the most powerful blockchain infrastructure on the planet! By that time, every disgruntled minnows--myself included--will gravitate towards the new platform.
Now I'm beginning to understand why @ned is so pissed off every time he sees an official press release by @eosio published on @steemit. There must be a reason for that!
If you are heavily invested into Steem Power--it is about to re-think your investment strategy by now! EOS is going to paralyze Steemit for real--given that it is an upgrade which is far more scalable than @steem itself!
The strange thing is, that steemit as social platform is marvelous, but unfortunately behaves financially like bad old capitalists. Maybe we could build on top of EOS a better social media platform.
The social engagement on @steemit has far exceeded my expectation--hats off on that! Community members are alive and kicking! In other words, it is more like Facebook and also beyond Reddit.
But alas, the system of reward distribution is poorly implemented! Whales tend to forget that the value of Steem still relies on people who believe the token is valuable.
The fact that Steem is only listed on 4 exchanges out of 7,479 total cryptocurrency markets should make them alarmed and wonder why it is not marketed very well.
Once this 4 exchanges decide to de-list Steem and SBD, the game is almost over! The bubble is worst than Bitcoin! BitShares DEX? No kidding please!
Let's take Changelly. They used to swap Steem and SBD for a bunch of other crypto asset--but now no more!
Time to move on to a more decent token of value which does real shit and not just shit posts and circle jerks among members of inner circle all while raping the shaky reward fund!
I strongly believe Everipedia is only the beginning--more to follow. I even expect some of the mainstream social media to evolve and adapt to the new paradigm of content sharing.
Glad to be on the front-seat while waiting for the IQ airdrop to come!
First: block all accounts at Steemit/Steem blockchain and the only way to get unblocked is by taking a course in "How to Make More Money using a Long Term View over a Short Term View".
Second: execute the courses
Third: enable accounts again after taking the coarse, BUT in a sandbox environment - this is to test if users actually learned
Forth: allow those who passed point three to come back to Steemit
Another solution would be:
Steemit Justice and Court system with unlimited SP who can FLAG users rock bottom when they don't follow certain rules and they enforce as a minimum the rule: "Steem value shall not be harmed" and "Forst Crypto Social Network shall be there in at least Five years time".
@haejin do the right thing. Thank you.
Dang! @iamthegray that was some concise wording. I am proud to be a member of group 2.
dont be, the true group 2ers should leave steem as the reward structure is flawed and build a better alternative. Group 1 is just exposing the weakness of the system and that is good. People should not waste more work on steemit.
Steem is not following the spirit of blockchain. We build trustless systems in which egoistic actors are pitted against the power of the majority. Steem is not such a system.
Yep,
We should fork the source code. Put preventions in place so that this can't happen again. And start over, hard but the truth.
@fechaugger
No need to start over, just need to convince 17 of the 20 top witnesses to apply any solution we can think of in to the version of STEEM that they run
Convincing 85% of the top witnesses is easier said than done.
It's not even that easy to say!
I am in group three.... and "no idea about what is going on."