DONATING 30SB TO STEEM PROPOSALS - Via a Theory Testing Proposal

in #sps6 months ago (edited)

DONATIONS

I'm donating 10SBD to SPS via the fee and then I'll donate 2X whatever amount gets funded up to 20SBD
At 20sbd i'll end the proposal.
Go to proposals here: https://steempeak.com/proposals ... fund the test and make me donate money.


I'm just adding a picture i took this month in idaho for the rest of my followers who don't care about the test


WHY I'M DOING THIS TEST

  • I think there are some issues with the Steem Proposal system but i'm gonna put my money where my theories are and see first.
  • Basically I think it could take a lot more time as an active proposal just to hit the funding amount. And therefore the days you submit should be regarded skeptically. More importantly I think the TOTAL PAY is kind of a number you should take with a grain of salt. I don't think any proposal ever will hit the full amount of total pay. (Maybe i'm wrong)
  • But what will happen with a selfless proposal that seeks to ADD money to @steem.dao?
  • Because no one really knows how this all will work i'm doing a test
  • And i'm willing to pay to make this test happen.
  • I see big potential for the Steem Proposal system I just wish coders would talk to user interface people more often. oh well... guess we have to live with what we have.
  • I'm fine with donating 30sbd of my own money to the Proposals System so not a huge loss.
  • Be cool to finally break the barrier and see something funded.
  • I have to go to this proposal page every day for my work with SteemPeak, this would make it more fun.

WHAT I WANT TO FIND OUT

  • TEST 1: Let's see one proposal actually get funded. (none have and the obstacle to overcome is pretty large)
  • TEST 2: Let's see how much votes it takes.
  • TEST 3: Let's see how long it takes... how many days active.
  • TEST 4: Testing the MAX FUNDING idea.
  • TEST 5: Seeing what happens with a successful proposal that is REMOVED before date ends.

MAX FUNDING?

I am going to remove this proposal when it hits my self appointed "max funding"
Meaning it will no longer be possible to get funding and even though total pay says 60sbd... it will never happen.

>>MAX FUNDING = 20sbd <<

(meaning i'll donate 40 more SBD for a net total of 30SBD donated)

  • Because max funding wasn't programmed into the code this means you have to trust me to manually remove the proposal.
  • Funds will go to @myproposal so that the accounting can be counted separately and people can see exactly what happens with the funds.

DATES

I'll have it open for about 60 days. That means 60 days to be funded for 20 of them.
I'll pay probably after the 20sbd success... but reserve right to pay early.
Also I may just stop the proposal early if most of my questions are answered by other proposals.
(In which case i'll just donate 2x whatever was funded by that time)

REMOVED PROPOSALS?

There's an issue with not having an easy system to display removed proposals... so maybe this will be some motivation to look into this and fix it... and by fix it... means come up with a feature that makes this decentralized and not just centralized on steempeak which is a possibility.


WHY REMOVE PROPOSALS?

There should have been a max funding mechanism in Steem Proposals code however I think that would take a hard fork to change so we won't see that for many months. So in the meantime I think most proposals will go the direction of having voters trust that they will remove a proposal when it hits their funding limit.
As discussed already i don't think any (tiny proportion) proposal will have a fully funded proposal in regards to "Total Pay" (days active * daily funding)

So I think the solution until the Proposals system itself is changed is for a proposer to propose and commit to a "Max Funding" ... the issue is it is not trustless. But until we can make the system work right we may be faced with this issue.


THE PROPOSAL

Go to https://steempeak.com/proposals to vote

DONATING 2X WHAT IS FUNDED: THEORY TESTING PROPOSAL - (ENDING AT=20SBD)

Sort:  

The Max Funding is just days x daily funding request. It’s not something that the Proposer puts in directly and cannot be reached unless Proposal got full daily rate every day for its life - which no current proposal now can.

Posted using Partiko iOS

I also have seen an issue where the inactive proposals don't have visibility. If you'd like to pull vote data from an API I have tracking votes for all proposals for additional information on steempeak the endpoint is https://chat.dlux.io/sps

Are you gonna keep data on proposals even after they end or are removed?

I haven't thought that far in to the future. It may be beneficial to archive that data since the vote totals come from the API and wouldn't stay current as time passes even though the record of who votes is there forever. This also doesn't track approvals and un-approvals, just the current approvals and their effective witness voting vests.

i am kinda lost with this. and i am not sure do i want to learn how it works. clicked support, hope it helps.

so now Class Action Lawsuit will get 200SBD a day as long as it is up top of the proposals?

No one gets any funding unless they pass the Return Proposal in votes. It’s a pretty high bar at the moment. Also, until the SPS fund reaches 200k SBD (the equilibrium level where the 2000 SBD a day going in and 1% max going out) it’s full capacity to fund is not available.

Posted using Partiko iOS

thanks for explanation

No, it has to get past @gtg's refund proposal, I believe.

Yes. In my proposal's post there's an ELI5 description with alice, bob and stuff.
Basically there's virtual queue of applicants ordered by amount of votes they gathered.
Then each hour payment is made accordingly up to requested amount, but obviously not more than Steem.DAO can pay (depends on gathered amounts).
Last maximum hourly payout was 1.849 SBD
So even if some proposal will get pass through my Return Proposal and will be first in queue, and want to grab everything there's to grab, then it won't currently get more than $2.

I don't recall the motive for this extreme difficulty in receiving any funding for proposals being clearly explained. Is this situation intended to be a temporary measure while bugs in the system are examined and fixed?

In theory the threshold is only as extreme as stakeholders choose. In practice the interface for deciding the threshold seems poor.

We should be able to vote conditionally; I should be able to set a vote which supports the proposal up to a certain Vest-vote level and not above it.

Posted using Partiko Android

Maybe I have misunderstood the intended design and function of the system here, but it looks to me that just like with the witness system, voters with high stakes are using tactics to limit the effectiveness of voting by everyone else as much as possible. For example, if I have millions of steem, I can vote for the return proposal using my own proxy accounts just enough that I get to roughly choose how many of the top voted proposals get funded. I can then use my large amount of funds to put proxy proposals in and vote for them, so that in practice, only my proposals get paid out. Isn't this likely/possible? Or have I misunderstood something here?

Yes. Blocktrades lone vote is worth 9,735 T which by it self nearly enough to choose which proposals are funded at this point. It's not total control but small stake holders barely matter here. This seems both reasonable and not reasonable. Unfortunately, a bicameral approach would require other metrics to guard against Cybil... and nothing that would suffice is in consensus or to my knowledge proposed elsewhere.

The proposal minimum is around 23 GV so it would take Blocktrades in agreement with another similar sized whale, and either another whale or many smaller accounts to support a proposal. There are also many whales whom have not voted for the return proposal and could increase that threshold.

Posted using Partiko Android

It's a system where the largest accounts will decide what gets paid out - that much is true and was always going to happen with a stakeholder majority system.

It's not true that a large account (except possibly the Steemit accounts) can decide on their own what gets paid out - it requires the large stakeholders working together. Blocktrades as the second largest non-Steemit whale for example has less than half the vote threshold currently, and there are many more whales whom have not voted and can raise that threshold so that it would require even more whales being in agreement.

We're still working on the interface and working to make it INTUITIVE.
If after our upcoming changes it's still confusing let us know

@jarvie is a good dude & I trust him, plus this is an interesting experiment. Good luck, supported.

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