Horizon Drop: The Easiest, Most Definitive Way to Prove the Curvature of the Earth
We have been discussing the recent phenomenon of the rise of people who believe the earth is flat, and discussed Everything You Ever Wanted to Know about the Horizon in the last article, but were not entirely honest with you and we didn't discuss EVERYTHING about the horizon, saving one specific aspect of the horizon for a separate article: horizon drop, or horizon dip.
Image Credit: Geograph
Theodolite Sculpture County Durham, Great Britain
That is because observing horizon drop is possibly one of the easiest and most definitive ways to know for sure yourself that the earth is, indeed, not flat. In fact, if you used a precision instrument called a theodolite, not only could you observe horizon drop, but measure it. And if you measured it in several places around the world, you could not only confirm that the earth is curved, but that it is, indeed, a sphere since it's curved equally at any point on earth.
What is Horizon Drop
Horizon drop is a phenomenon whereby the horizon will actually get lower as one goes higher in altitude. As we discussed in the article How to Prove the Curvature of the Earth With Nothing But a Ladder, the curvature of the earth begins to drop away from you the higher in altitude you go, giving us an increased distance to the horizon. This means that as you go up in altitude, the horizon will get lower and lower on the sphere relative to the observer. This decrease in elevation of the horizon will show up to us as the measurable, repeatable, falsifiable, predictable observation known as horizon drop.
Like most people, this information might be new to you because the horizon always looks like it's pretty much unchanged and remains at eye level. In fact, this is one of the 'mantras' of the flat earth movement, that the horizon always rises to eye level. They say this because it looks like it does!
How Do We Know the Horizon Drops?
While the horizon may look like it 'rises to eye level', as the flat earth mantra goes, or at least it looks like it stays at the same level relative to our vision, the horizon actually drops. However, the horizon drop is small, only a few degrees even when viewing it from the height of an airplane, that our eyes simply cannot register this small amount of drop and it needs to be visualized with some sort of tool that allows us to actually see it.
We know this because humans have been not only observing, but measuring the horizon drop with accuracy using an instrument called a theodolite. For the math geeks, or those interested in learning more about horizon drop in detail, you can read the paper Investigations into the Dip of the Horizon.
Image Credit: Flickr
Surveyor from 1897 with an early theodolite
While you may never have heard of a theodolite before, you've almost certainly seen one at some point in your life when you've seen a surveyor doing his job looking through one of these instruments to survey a plot of land. When you look through a theodolite, it will have crosshairs in the center, much like a sight for a rifle would have.
Surveyors can use their theodolite, ensure it's level, look through the site, then visualize and measure how much the horizon has dropped from eye level, like in the image above. Horizon drop has been known about for a very long time, but has been able to be measured since as long ago as the 16th Century when the first theodolite was invented! Even more evidence that the horizon drop is that manufacturers of virtual reality displays had to make the horizon drop in order to allow users to better estimate distance. We see the horizon drop, but it's too subtle of a drop for us to perceive consciously.
Image Credit: Jesse Kowlowski- Flat Earth Can't Geodesy
How to See Horizon Drop
I did say this was an easy way to prove the curvature of the earth, and while you can find used theodolites on Ebay or at flea markets, you don't need an expensive instrument to see the horizon drop yourself. There are a variety of different ways to see horizon drop that are cheap and you probably already have access to.
To use any of these methods to visualize horizon drop, you'll need to have access to a high place, preferably at least a thousand feet or higher with an unobstructed view of the horizon. The higher you are the more easily you will see the drop without a precision instrument.
A level: You can take a regular hardware store level or even a level app on your smartphone,and simply put it on a level surface, then sight down the level to the horizon. Very simple.
A Rifle Sight: Take the rifle sight and lay it on or tape it to a level and put the level on a level surface, then look through the rifle sight at the horizon
Build a leveling rig or homemade water level: for the DIY kind of people, or for those conspiracy theorists who think that NASA has infiltrated all of the above technology to fake the horizon drop (yes, I've actually had people say this!), you can build a leveling rig for next to nothing. It might look something like this, although there are many ways to make a leveling rig, even using materials you probably already have around the house.
Image Credit: Horizon Drop at Varying Altitudes. Flat Earth Debunked
An Auto level: An auto-level is an instrument that looks something like a theodolite, but is a more basic version. You can find them online for around $60
A Sight Level: a sight level is a small, hand held instrument that has crosshairs and a level. You can Get One On Amazon for around $15
Find a theodolite app to put on your smartphone. Many are free or extremely reasonable like the Hunter Theodolite App
In conclusion, horizon drop is a measurable, repeatable, falsifiable, predictable observation that has been an established fact with repeated observations and measurements for hundreds of years now. The science of geodesy uses, and has used, this measurement for measuring virtually every place on earth that is on a map totaling what is probably billions of observations for the correct map measurements we use every day.
Horizon drop conclusively and easily proves the curvature of the earth with observable science anyone can do... if they choose to. Flat earthers, though, generally choose not to make observations that will disprove the earth is flat. If they did, they would not be flat earthers!
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Flat earth theory is created by uneducated people. If the earth is flat, half the theories in science would be invalid!
Saying the earth is flat would be like saying a cube only has three sides just because you can't see all six sides at one time.
https://steemit.com/science/@klevn/proofs-the-world-is-not-moving-or-a-globe-high-tides-when-moon-opposite-side-for-your-consideration-please-examine
now it seems that what you know, and what you think you know are not the same thing.
which ones. name them. gravity is a theory around an observed event. it isn't a theory like you can actually test it, it is a theory that was crafted arounded reality. it can't even be tested... because the forces are too weak.. so pick some others to show me how they are 'invalid' because the earth is not round.
And yet, while the source of gravity remains a matter of speculation, its effects are so consistent that they have always borne out in every scientific test, 9.8 meters per second squared at sea level. That's no weak force.
I just said we don't know what causes the effect. You're not refuting me at all. However, your response to the absence of information is irrational speculation instead of scientific inquiry.
what do you propose? you claim this force exist, and yet it is to small to test, what is the good in that? people are lost in mathmatics, that isn't science at all, it is just a good bit o' speculation, with no test to resolve.
guess i find it useless, i find it funny, i find it weird, that it is still given and talked about in schools.
much like the core of the earth, which if it is as they say, we've barely see down %1 of the way... yet in school i was taught about facts, things i thought we knew, but it was all just conjecture, no better than making it up.
to me this is the sign, of lies they tell us all, that if things are given absolutely, wrong they must be in all.
Gravity exists. We observe and test its effects to a very high degree of accuracy. Perhaps if you go learn something, you wouldn't claim such nonsense.
Understanding gravity is immensely useful in many applications, construction of every single one of our buildings and bridges, flight, orbital mechanics, space exploration, planetary motion, etc.
What the center of the earth is composed of is not guesswork, it is applying the known rules of physics to the data and evidence we do have, to come up with reasonable conclusions.
To me, your post point to a decided lack in education. Take a peek at this site, it can give you a complete education for free: https://www.khanacademy.org/
your comment fail to see how I accept the phenomenon that gravity is based in. it is the theory around what is happening that I have no use for.
your comment displays a lack of education about what gravity is in relation to physics, if you think it is necessary for building bridges/building/flight .. we can do all those things without having gravity be a invisible force that draws things together.
you don't understand how science works. all that is conjecture, based on theories.
science states until I've actually proven it by experimentation does it become true.
please stop lying to people. because you either know this is true or you are ignorant of what makes truth.
below the equator water rotates counterclockwise down he drain. Below the equator plane water flows the other way but actually at the molecular level the right hand rule of atomic spin always veers to the right but macroscopically the system appears to change direction due to respective vantage points.
I went down that whole flat earth rabbit trail myself a while back. While I never really thought they “proved” the earth was flat, I thought they brought up some good arguments. Now though, I think it’s just a distraction.
gyroscopes prove the earth is not moving.
then to disprove nasa we have these:
face in the background.
and this one is just hilarious... the bouncy doors!
also read 'wag the moon doggie'
if that doesn't get you to question reality of space... i question your ability to read ; )
Gyros only detect change in motion.
The laser gyros are accurate enough to detect rotation of earth.
The Gross Ring G is a square ring laser gyroscope, built as a monolithic Zerodur structure with 4 m length on all sides. It has demonstrated that a large ring laser provides a sensitivity high enough to measure the
--->rotational rate of the Earth<---
with a high precision of ΔΩE < 10-8.
Source Link
http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1742-6596/723/1/012061/meta
Source link
http://hackology.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/gyro-pres.pdf
lol, as if a motion such as rotating the earth can only be detect by a laser one that we can't check for ourselves. whatever.
Yes, we need such things as gyroscopes because the earth rotates so slowly. I mean for those of us unable to look up in the sky every day and see the sun traveling in a straight line every day....lol.
https://www.quora.com/If-earth-is-spinning-faster-than-the-speed-of-sound-does-it-mean-that-it-is-leaving-a-loud-roar
I'm not interested in the content of this page, but it is clear to me everyone agrees we are spinning faster than the speed of sound.
so your we are going so slow argument doesn't hold up.
please stop lying to people. because you either know this is true or you are ignorant of what makes truth.
Yes, knucklehead the earth is moving at about 1000 mph at the equator. Speed and rotation are two separate things.
The earth can spin only once per 24 hours which is very slow. Take a basket ball and spin it once in 24 hours. Would you say the basketball was spinning quickly or slowly?
Quit being a knucklehead and learn something about our reality here: https://www.khanacademy.org/
you seem to think the earth is very small if you think that one rotation every 24 hours is a small thing.
Interesting videos. I wonder if there are any rational alternate explanations?
Accusation: NASA faked the model.
Alternative explanations: maybe flat earther faked the video now that we do have good video editing at consumer levels, maybe the video is in fact from a scale model demonstration, and maybe if the video is shot from an observation window it could be a reflection of the cameraman apparent against the blackness of space.
Accusation: bendy door.
Further inquiry: why do you imagine the hatch needs to be rigid in the first place for that particular situation, and why wouldn't lightweight materials with no air resistance behave in exactly the manner shown in the video?
I have seen enough flat-earth "proof" taken from selectively-edited and doctored videos to be quite skeptical, and blatant dishonesty is as rampant in "truther" movements as it is in government. Bad math and clear misunderstandings of basic mathematics and physics abound. Mockery in the face of inquiry is not a counterargument or a rebuttal, just a mask for your own position's weakness.
I wrote at length on this general subject a while back on why I am not a flat earther and the fallacy of governmental falsification.
nothing disproves the gyroscope, you and no globe earther can explain it, because it is outside the realm of explanation.. the gyroscope would rotate.
i tell you now tho, i don't care. it is not something i can explain to people that refuse to see it. if you rigidly want to be on a globe earth, give nasa your money and receive nothing in return but cgi, whelp, nothing i can do about that.
if you want to believe you are an accident of nature, while at the same time knowing that you share 99% of your dna with a rat.. as if all that stuff just so perfectly came together thru random mutations (as darwin's theory promotes) ..
i'm stopping looking at it, i won't support it, i won't look at it. after much discussion with people online i found so many schills (kerriknox is one that tried to silence me just for opposing him.. he downvoted me to oblivion, he claimed i was always off topic, he tried to force the direction of debate and refused things i brought forth, it was only thru the acts of a benevolent whale that i have any reputation now. he saw what was happening... ) i don't believe the globe earthers are arguing in good faith, and that to me proves the flat earth, or something more than we understand now, is going on, that what they are telling us is a lie.
because i want to feel good, because i want to enjoy my life, because i just can't care anymore and feel good at the same time... i'm walking away.
i may stop by and keep reminding people of gyroscopes and law of momentum (which would dictate that we are thrown off the earth give the speed... and you would definately feel it.
anyway, if i do anything it will be because it feels good. i'm going to get back to enjoying my life instead of arguing with schills, one day, when you accept God into your life, discernment will come, and then you will know when people are lying to you.
globe earthers are lying to us, that is my feeling, i try and point it out in whatever way i can. if you can't see how they twist things to make it fit.. whelp, keep giving nasa money, keep supporting those that just want to scam you.
And this is why your position fails. Feelings are irrelevant in sound science.
Why do you fear a spherical earth hung upon nothing? Why are you so afraid of rational inquiry that you move the goalpost, drop red herrings, resort to strawman arguments, change the subject, and dodge like a scared cat?
Why does the DNA of a rat compared to that of a human matter? Life is made from the same elements. This neither proves nor disproves a creator. Neither the flat earth nor globe earth model proves or disproves a creator. You're flying off on a tangent, unlike humans who live at the equator of a globe earth.
Precision measurement requires precision instruments. You said "You can't show it with a gyroscope," and then someone did, and you dismissed it out of hand. That isn't science.
15 degrees an hour is no small amount, you don't need this fancy shit that can't be sought out by the average person.
why does it only work, when done behind closed doors?
seems more like a magic trick, if this is the case.
hello, did you get to that conclusion because of the star trails in the southern hemisphere?
Circular horizon remains a natural evidence of the circular nature of the earth. Elementary geography.
Circular horizon remains a natural evidence of the spherical nature of the earth.
Fixed it for ya.
The best part of that home-made water level device: It uses the flat-earther claim that "water finds its own level" to disprove the flat-earther.
not sure i understand. now you guys are saying you can see the curve, if we just use this device? i thought the earth was too big.
why do boats re-appear with ultra-zoom camera lenses?
You can't see the curve with the naked eye. You can see the curve with this device because it gives you a frame of reference through which you can see thecurve from a high altitude overlooking a flat horizon line.
Boats don't "re-appear" with ultra-zoom cameras. Those demonstrations are not boats over the horizon, but rather boats near the horizon. A tall ship is better for seeing something emerge from over the horizon.
I wrote a post some time ago about why I don't buy flat earth claims, and linked to other material for reference.
whatever dude. i don't believe you argue with truth on your side, but lies. sadly, you know it is a lie. and you do it anyway.
the number of people that argue like you, just prove it to me.
good luck keeping your job! love you anyway.
Don't conflate truth and belief. Truth is that which aligns with reality. People believe in lots of things, including Santa Claus. If the Earth is flat, there is verifiable evidence that withstands attempts to falsify it without any need to resort to cherry-picked data or word games. Support your argument. Citing a nebulous conspiracy theory and dubious data does not constitute proof.
oh jacob, you guys always pretend to be in the right.
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Outstanding work Kerri. Thank you.
gyroscope can be set in an equilibrium to not move, tho it is free to.
if the earth was rotating, the gyroscope would rotate 360 degrees every day, but it doesn't. it just sits there.
this is literally impossible in globe earth theory.
oh, and if we were really spinning at near the speed of sound (which globe earth claims) it would be like being in a car going around a corner constantly. you'd definately feel it. the reason is momentum.
there is no point when being on a merry-go-round when you stop feeling the spin.
Gyroscope: Demonstrate this, then, and explore alternate explanations that might refute it in order to strengthen your case.
The surface speed of the earth varies from the poles to the equator, but remains one revolution per 24 hours, and your location on the surface riding along with it means your frame of reference is apparently stationary. If a juggler rides on a maglev train at 60 mph, he doesn't need to compensate for the velocity because the train, his body, and the balls he juggles are all moving within the same frame of reference. There is no vibration from outside interference just like the Earth.
he would if it was turning around a corner. everyone has felt it. same when in a plane. all seems normal until you ascend/descend or bank.
they are called g-forces if you turn hard enough.
on the earth, you'd constantly be turning a corner.. so no, it is not straight and linear as in your description of the juggler.
Except no, you're not "constantly turning a corner" in the sense of your analogy. You're rotating at one revolution per day. That's imperceptible even at the equator because everything is also rotating at the same rate.
That is your conjecture. It doesn't matter that it is the same rate. Merry go rounds are felt at low speeds.
Then gyroscopes... it really is the archilles heel of the globe earth theory.
Sit on a merry-go-round at 1 rev/day. You won't notice it.
hahahahahahahah... yeah, ok, what kind of merry-go-round where you on. because it is worse on the edge.
and gyroscopes.. none of you will touch it, because IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE ON A GLOBE EARTH.
we are not moving. oh, well, i don't believe you truly believe what you say.
Gyroscopes do show the earth moving. They confirm the rotation of the earth.
Here ya go. Hope this helps.
.
https://science.howstuffworks.com/gyroscope2.htm
i know how they work, if people refuse to accept the reality and try and explain it away, well that is their business.
Maybe your thinking of Foucault pendulum.
Simple device conceived as an experiment to demonstrate the rotation of the Earth.
Source:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault_pendulum
no, they are two entirely different things. i suspect this works because the electromagnetic nature of the sun.
"Suspect" is irrelevant in science. Test it. Perhaps a Faraday cage and a dark room might work?
Boom. Practical test for your hypothesis.
that or make the pendulum out of wood.
all science starts with an idea, then ends with a test. that is all science is.
for me it was a gyroscope... and the path of the eclipse.
and S shape makes no sense, I can't see it in my head, but when you place the path on a flat earth, a near perfect circle does the eclipse make.
so when things start falling into place, you can be sure you are on the right path, for the globe earth theory to work... bunch of mental gymnastics and mind-bending explanations are needed. i won't bend my mind, i spent forty years believe the earth a globe, then an explanation that makes far more sense comes along, trust me I didn't want to believe it, I thought it was a joke, but then I started to see, it made far more sense than what i'd been taught, it was plain to see.
Flat earth makes no sense, it explains none of our observations and data. The data and observations directly contradict the flat earth conjecture. The flat earth model becomes more and more convoluted as it used to explain more and more data. It devolves into nonsense very quickly.
because your mind is filled with globes, and you won't even try and test the alternatives.
thanks for stating vague facts without and support. suddenly you forgot how science works?
vague, vague, vague...
you mean like this post? that is what globe theory devolves into when put under intense scrutiny.
speaking of devolving into nonsense, the eclipse path makes an S shape on a globe earth, and a circle on a flat earth.
I'm going with the circle. because an S shape makes NO SENSE AT ALL. Therefore, the globe theory is nonsense.
If you need to learn the specifics of the mountains of data we have, check out this site: https://www.khanacademy.org/
I do not think so... The Earth is flat like a balloon, I do not know how much NASA will be paying you for making this publication.
I agree. The earth is flat like a balloon.
PS. We've known the earth was round 2000 years before NASA existed.
That's what NASA wants you to think.
Then feel free to explain how the horizon drops when that is impossible on a flat earth. In fact, it's a Dubay mantra that the horizon always rises to eye level. There are thousands of memes that claim this.
BTW, this is a statue from 150 BC of Atlas carrying the world on his shoulders. Note: it's not a flat disk.
You are quite slow... to understand the sarcasm.
Ahhh, sarcasm. LOL. Sorry. You have not dealt with flat earthers. There is literally nothing too absurd for them such that there is no possibility in knowing if someone is being sarcastic.
Whatever you think is so absurd that someone would think it is sarcasm, real flat earthers will take that to the next order of magnitude. When being sarcastic in a flat earth forum or post, it's advisable to indicate the sarcasm.
Poe's law.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poe's_Law
I have discussed with flat earthers, they are quite absurd, that's why I said about the balloon, haha.
I had a conservation with a couple young men at the gym; man are people dumbed down. They believed in global warming and were not sure the earth was a globe.