Trinity Is Impossible Scientifically And How It Is Impossible To Have More Than One God. Episode Continues And Why The Message Of Muhammad And Jesus Is Same.
Due to many replies about trinity and failed attempts of proving trinity in my earlier post I decided to make this detailed post explaining how trinity is scientifically impossible. I hope that you won't mind discussing in fair and friendly manners instead of accusing each other. Lets start discussing it.
Christians claims that Jesus was in the form of trinity and he himself was the form of God and they quote the scientific explanation that:
"Water can be converted into three states: solid liquid and gas in form of ice, water and vapor. Similarly, God is One but it is in form of trinity like father, son and holy ghost."
Response:
Scientifically, water can be converted in three states and we do not have any problem with that. We affirm that science is correct, but we are not agree with your logic because your own logic violates same theory of science which you are quoting to prove yourself then how you can call it a scientific proof if it is far from being a scientific proof? Well, you might be thinking that I am just claiming it. Well, lets analyze the theory and let me prove your proof wrong.
It is scientifically true that water can be converted in three states but scientifically, it is also known to us that component of water remains the same which is H2O, two atoms of hydrogen and one atom of oxygen. The component always remains the same. If only forms keep changing, then there is absolutely no problem with that. Having said that, we are now going to check the concept of trinity in terms of father, son and holy ghost.
If Christians are claiming that forms of God kept changing then lets agree for the sake of argument. Even after agreeing with this flawed theory, components should remain the same if one want to call it a scientific proof of trinity but here, components are NOT same because:
- God and Holy Ghost is made of ??? SPIRIT
- Human beings are made of flesh and bones.
I tried to keep it very simple. You can clearly see above that components are NOT same and that is the reason why your own proof is the proof of your lie. Furthermore, note that Human beings require to EAT and God doesn't require to eat to survive. And you know what? You are not only violating the science rule but you are also violating the biblical proof. You claim to be a christian and yet you are not ready to accept the proof from your own book? How sad it is.
It is mentioned in the Gospel of Luke Chapter 24 Verse 36 to 43:
While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you." They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have. When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, "Do you have anything here to eat?" They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate it in their presence."
All praises are for Almighty God, how bible proves that Jesus was NOT GOD, he was made of flesh and bones and he was the mighty and greatest messenger of God (Allah). He was required to eat to survive and if it was just the change of form, then he wouldn't have said that or he wouldn't eat to survive. If you're still arguing, then sadly I want to ask you, "Do you think that Jesus preached lie too? Jesus preached falsehood? If yes, then you should worry about your faith.
The question is, why Jesus asked people to bring him food and he ate in front of them, to prove what? To prove that he is God? NO, it was to prove that he is HUMAN and NOT GOD! and another point, he had flesh and bones and spirit never have flesh and bones.
Does the concept of Trinity even exists in complete Bible?
Short answer, NO. Go and read complete Bible and you'll not get ANY single proof of trinity in which Jesus would have claimed to be in the form of human but in reality was GOD etc, and there is no verse in complete Bible in which Jesus would have claimed that he himself is God.
The concept of trinity is mentioned in Qur'an but for what? To warn people about it.
It is mentioned in Surah An Nisa Verse 171:
"O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs."
Let me reconcile it for you again, concept of trinity is not mentioned in complete bible, and Jesus didn't even claimed that he is God. Instead, he proved to his people that he is HUMAN.
You might wonder and maybe confused too that what exactly is mentioned in John Chapter 5 Verse 7. Yes, it is closest to trinity but lets analyze what is mentioned there.
"For there are three that testify, the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement."
and I challenge you to go and look at the revised version which is actually revised by Christian scholars, the highest scholars. they said regarding the 7th verse of John Chapter 5 that:
"This verse is concoction and fabrication"
And for that reason, they threw this verse out of the bible. And they did the right thing because that fabricated verse violates LOTS of verses of bible. Some of them are:
It is mentioned in Gospel of John Chapter 10 and Verse 29:
"My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand."
It is mentioned in Gospel of Matthew Chapter 12 Verse 28:
But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you."
It is mentioned in Gospel of Luke Chapter 11 Verse 20:
But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you."
It should be pretty clear now that Jesus was NOT GOD, he was the mighty messenger of God and his great miracles are affirmed by Muslims. We Muslims even agree on the miracle of Power on death.
Let me quote the verse of Surah An Nisa once again because of its beauty and truthfulness that:
O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs."
If you are still not convinced that Jesus was a messenger of God or not, then refer to your own bible and see how clear that verse is but only those will see who throw the glasses of their home religions out from their eyes. Problem is, most of people have glasses on their eyes of their home religions. In whichever religion they are born, they'll call it correct. But those who want eternal peace will never sit comfortably on just hope, they will research like me. I studied many religions including Christianity and Hinduism and I mentioned in my previous episode that how I wondered when I found that almost all of them are conveying the same message that there is only ONE true God. All praises are for Almighty God who helped me in studying religions.
It is mentioned in Gospel of John Chapter 5 Verse 30 that:
"By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me."
We found one thing clearly from above verse that Jesus was one of the greatest messengers sent by God to guide us. The point is, you might be following the Christianity of churches, but you are not following the Christianity mentioned in Bible.
Muhammad PBUH gave the same message to the world that : "Worship ALLAH alone" which some of the Christians can easily affirm while some have issues of trinity going on. Both of them are messengers of God.
Let me make it clear again, I know that lots of Christians agree with what I am saying that Jesus is not God. I am just referring to them who are so convinced with trintiy concept which is not even clearly mentioned in the bible. I have no problems with Christian if they worship One God. I respect your religion, and I respect what you have in your mind but I can't agree with everything you have just like you can't agree with everything I said. There is no agenda against you, there is nothing against you. We all are friends here. I just thought to write about this topic because it was inspired by @dantheman in which he stated that he leaved Christianity with this account @dan . Then @gavvet posted similar material, then due to high interest in subject of religion, I thought to make these informative posts too. It takes a lot of time you know, so if you guys like my efforts then I am more than happy about it. Otherwise, I am agree to disagree.
What is the scientific defintion for Hope?
Search on Google. He is your best friend :)
It looks like people have reached to such extreme that they are putting GOD on scientific tests. That is non-sense because scientific tests are to test humans. Science is NOT perfect while God is perfect. So, it is obvious that these two things will not have an agreement in some cases.
Never put God in scientific test, period.
I understand I could not even reply in ur last reply same thing the reply button is not working, That's what is all about for me to brother, I'm not doing this for money, as u know this type of post don't make money, I do it because it's my duty to spread and speak the truth.
Yeah, I know bro. Thanks for your support ;)
Every god violates at least one scientific law, usually a thermodynamic one.
Yeah, including the god of evolution which violates entropy.
Evolution does not violate entropy, you can reduce entropy of a system inputting energy from the outside (in the case of animals by eating) the overall entropy of the Universe still grows.
A good analogy is a dirty room (a system smaller than the whole Universe), the room will be more and more dirty (entropy increases naturally) unless you input energy from the outside (cleaning yourself the room and wasting the entropy you got from the food in the process).
To sum up we can say that entropy overall always increases but the specific entropy of a system can be reduced by inputting energy from the outside, as we cannon input energy from outside the Universe into it, Universe entropy cannot be reduced.
It's more than energy, its order.
And achieving increased order requires the ability to perceive the difference.
You could say the opposite though. If it is necessary to pass a scientific test for God then you should know that God is perfect and science is not which is my stance.
All of these issues, the deity of Christ, His being fully God and fully man at the same time, the Trinity, and a host of other fine points were thoroughly debated in the first 7 church councils and there have been TONS of dissertations written about them over the centuries.
I suggest you read up on those without trying to re-litigate it all here among us amateurs. We are certainly not going to break any new ground here about what has been thoroughly settled for a millennium.
First Council of Nicaea, (325): affirmed that Jesus is truly God and equal to the Father; repudiated Arianism, adopted the Nicene Creed.
First Council of Constantinople, (381): affirmed that Jesus was perfectly man against the Apollinarians; revised the Nicene Creed into its present form which is used in the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches; prohibited any further alteration of the Creed without the assent of an Ecumenical Council.
Council of Ephesus, (431): affirmed that Jesus is one person against Nestorianism; proclaimed the Virgin Mary as the Mother of God, and also condemned Pelagianism.
Council of Chalcedon, (451): affirmed that in Jesus there are two distinct natures in one person that are hypostatically united "without confusion, change, division or separation"; repudiated the Eutychianism and Monophysitism; adopted the Chalcedonian Creed.
Second Council of Constantinople, (553): reaffirmed decisions and doctrines explicated by previous Councils, condemned new Arian, Nestorian, and Monophysite writings.
Third Council of Constantinople, (680–681): asserted that Jesus had both a divine and human will; repudiated Monothelitism.
Second Council of Nicaea, (787); restoration of the veneration of icons and end of the first iconoclasm. It is rejected by some Protestant denominations, who instead prefer the Council of Hieria (754), which had also described itself as the Seventh Ecumenical Council and had condemned the veneration of icons.
Hi Stan!
Thanks for your time.
I wanted to make a point and I made, and you wanted to make a point which you made. I am agree to disagree with you buddy, because there are many fellow Christians of yours which will agree to disagree with you due to the load of past debates.
Stan is hiding behind the bushes he has no legs to stand on I asked him simple ? If Jesus was God and not a messenger of God, how come from they bible Jesus, say I was sen only to save the children of Isreal.? He was send? by who? And why only the children of Isreal, and the Christians say he was send as a savior to the whole world? Who is liying the Christians or Jeusus.
That's a good point and I will be interested to read what he writes in this response. I posted an evidence in which there is a word "sent" used which means, he was messenger.
He won't he can't argue with the fact's that's jeusus words to eliminate the false hood they attribute to jeusus (P.b.u.h)
And my second point if u watched the video, he said no way in the bible was Prophet Muhammed. (P.b.u.h) mentioned, but he was so quick to say the Quran was not written by him, which we agree, Like he said. Prophet Muhammed was illiterate. So I gave home reff In my new post those reff clearly mention none but Prophet Muhammed. (P.b.u.h) I think u should take the reff and write an article as you are better than me on not only writeing but making sense brother it's important subject.
@cryptosteem Brother, thanks for the compliment. It seems like reply button is not available below your post so I had to reply to my own. You're better than me of-course and I take it as huge respect from you, thanks for that. With the decree of God, I'll do my best to prepare some good stuff explaining things about things you mentioned. I started with God thingy because that's the first part of our belief, I hope you understand what I'm saying.
Sometimes I "send" my wife to get me a snow cone, but we all really know who is in charge. :)
I was pleased to answer both the other questions on a parallel thread. :o)
Here a repeat, for your convenience:
Jesus was sent to the Jews in keeping of God's promise to Abraham.
After the Jews rejected Him, he instructed His disciples to "Go and make disciples of ALL nations."
Jesus own words to Nicodemus are conclusive:
You all missed my point here which was, trinity is NOT mentioned clearly in bible and one closest verse which existed was thrown out of bible by high class christian scholars because it was fabrication and concoction. If Jesus didn't claim trinity, then know that he didn't claim divinity too UNLESS you wanna call him a liar (and far is Jesus from liars, he was truthful)
Jesus said, "I and the father are one" His famous "Before Abraham was, I AM" passage almost got him stoned for in the words of the Jewish leaders, "claiming to be God".
It's everywhere in the Bible.
You accused me of quoting things out of context when I quoted everything perfectly but now you are quoting things out of context. WAKE UP!!!
What did I quote out of context? I used shorthand here because I posted all this other places for you today... ???
I can make a lengthy post again on your claims which are false, and out of context for sure, but I already mentioned that you made your point and I made mine, so lets agree to disagree. We'll talk about it some other day.
Right now, I'm feeling sleepy. Thanks for putting your time in this discussion.
Nice @princewahaj
Shot you an Upvote :)
Hi! This post has a Flesch-Kincaid grade level of 7.0 and reading ease of 79%. This puts the writing level on par with Tom Clancy and F. Scott Fitzgerald.